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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » MMOs Have No Identity

20 posts found
  qombi

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 1187

 
OP  9/12/12 6:04:36 PM#1

World of Warcraft Mists of Pandaria .. here we go again with the stolen features from other games. The never ending copycat of other games features and smashing them into another bothers me. This comes in part from MMOs never ending development. It also comes from fear that if X game doesn't have the same features as Y game, then they will lose subs.

I can play numerous single player games that feel unique and fun in their own right. Did they borrow features from other games when being developed, sure. Though since they do not have an unending development cycle, I can play Zelda 3 link to the past today and it is still the great game it was when I played it before. You do not get this option with MMOs. They evolve for better or worse into something they were not. World of Warcraft, Everquest, etc are not the original games that made them the hits they were.

They are now different games riding on the success of their previous designs. It is sad they are gone forever. You can still play this new game I guess with the same name as previous. Just my thoughts.

  qombi

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 1187

 
OP  9/13/12 6:15:05 PM#2
Would like your opinion, thoughts, why you disagree or agree.
  VirusDancer

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/04
Posts: 3684

Heroes are about character - not gear.

9/13/12 6:36:34 PM#3

I'm somewhat confused, to be honest - in regard to what you're trying to say.

It appears that you're saying that MMO's have lost their particular identities over the years because they have evolved...and that is a bad thing.  You can go back and play Zelda 3, because Zelda 3's always going to be Zelda 3...but you can't go back and play what you enjoyed in WoW; because it's been Vanilla->Burning Crusade->Lich King->Cataclysm->and Mists around the corner.

Have you played Zelda 3 for seven years as your main game though?  So you did not play the 15 some other Zelda games since that?  What about the two before?  You've played additional games in the interim, no?

An MMO evolves - much like one would not expect you to have played Zelda 3 continuously since '91... MMO's evolve.

It's not a case that you're going to login to MoP and find yourself flying spaceships while fighting an army of angry tweens wearing Bieber shirts.

Expanding on identity, evolving, is not the same as having no identity.

You're not the same person that you were when you first played Zelda 3... but you're still you.

I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  User Deleted
9/13/12 6:41:20 PM#4

Well...

How can someone tell if an MMO is stealing or evolving? I would try to phrase this better, but I got nothing at the moment.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

9/13/12 6:46:37 PM#5
I disagree, the last two mmos tsw and gw2 have a strong identity

The former having an original setting and quest system, with a fairly original taking a skill system from sandboxes and sticking it in a themepark.

The later being first mmo from a big studio going in big letters. NOT FOR RAIDERS FOR EVERYONE ELSE
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

9/13/12 6:49:57 PM#6
see I don't think wow copies the best from othergames, if it did it would have launched with daoc pvp for a start.

Wow is diablo in mmo form,used to be sorta fun when it was diablo 2, but now its well and truly diablo 3 as mmo
  VirusDancer

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/04
Posts: 3684

Heroes are about character - not gear.

9/13/12 6:53:19 PM#7
Originally posted by Enigmatus

Well...

How can someone tell if an MMO is stealing or evolving? I would try to phrase this better, but I got nothing at the moment.

The stealing thing's always an interesting discussion, because of the following:

Somebody will claim A stole from B.  Somebody will point out that B stole from C.  C from D.  D from E.  E from F...etc, etc, etc until it becomes obvious that it's just a common element that was added.

As for evolving, that's just a case of changing and adapting...

I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  VirusDancer

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/04
Posts: 3684

Heroes are about character - not gear.

9/13/12 6:56:35 PM#8
Originally posted by ShakyMo
see I don't think wow copies the best from othergames, if it did it would have launched with daoc pvp for a start.
 

One could easily say the following:

If DAoC PvP were the best and what the majority wanted, then every game would have DAoC style PvP...

...which of course, we know is not the case.

Unfortunately of course, that's all so subjective.  My line would have been the following:

"see I don't think wow copies the best from othergames, if it did it would have launched with Shadowbane pvp for a start."

Heh, but even though that's best for me - it's obviously not best for the masses.

I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4630

9/13/12 6:59:15 PM#9

Who cares

You can develop the most unque and individual game ever and and not include one thing that anyone else has ever done, but you don't do it in a way that doesn't flow together and maybe try to hard NOT to be something someone else has done and in effect lose things that are good for the game releaseing a game that isn't very playable.

Or, if you have done your home work and you have researched why people play MMOs, you found the right balance of grind vs. reward. you have studied what works and refined it and removed what doesn't work or even better, fix it so that it does. You look at every mmo ever developed and you pick and choose components and mix together one of the most fun and exciting MMOs with true replayability and longevity and yet it still offers nothing new at all.

Guess what I'm playing.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  Tardcore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/09
Posts: 2370

"A strange game. The only winning move is not to post."

9/13/12 7:03:40 PM#10
Originally posted by qombi
Would like your opinion, thoughts, why you disagree or agree.

Well I'd like to give you my opinion, but after years of genericized horse shit themepark games I've been conditioned not to have one.

"SKREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!"

"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4630

9/13/12 7:09:03 PM#11
Originally posted by Tardcore
Originally posted by qombi
Would like your opinion, thoughts, why you disagree or agree.

Well I'd like to give you my opinion, but after years of genericized horse shit themepark games I've been conditioned not to have one.

"SKREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!"

For some reason, this picture reminds me of the opening scene.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xmckWVPRaI

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  User Deleted
9/13/12 7:16:54 PM#12

"SKREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!"

For some reason, this picture reminds me of the opening scene.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xmckWVPRaI

What IS that movie anyways? I know it seems familiar...

  VirusDancer

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/04
Posts: 3684

Heroes are about character - not gear.

9/13/12 7:20:57 PM#13
Originally posted by Enigmatus

What IS that movie anyways? I know it seems familiar...

Invasion of the Body Snatchers...

I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  User Deleted
9/13/12 7:23:41 PM#14
Originally posted by VirusDancer
Originally posted by Enigmatus

What IS that movie anyways? I know it seems familiar...

Invasion of the Body Snatchers...

Oh yeah, I knew I had seen it somewhere, but I couldn't remember where. AVGN I believe it was?

  VirusDancer

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/04
Posts: 3684

Heroes are about character - not gear.

9/13/12 7:26:08 PM#15
AVGN?  Er... okay, had to Google that.  Never heard of that...

I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4630

9/13/12 7:28:25 PM#16

You do realize it's a link right?

try clicking on it

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  User Deleted
9/13/12 7:29:49 PM#17
Originally posted by VirusDancer
AVGN?  Er... okay, had to Google that.  Never heard of that...

Angry Video Game Nerd. He reviews (well more like angrily rants in a comedic way, though this is just a persona; he isn't like that in real life) on old games from the NES -> 16bit I think. I think you can find him on either youtube or Cinemassacre.com.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19506

9/13/12 7:57:22 PM#18

Nope .. identity is in the mood, in the setting, in the art style.

 

  worldalpha

Novice Member

Joined: 11/03/11
Posts: 401

Working hard on WorldAlpha

9/13/12 9:53:44 PM#19
I think studios go with what works.  If that means copying other game ideas, then they do it.  Going out on a limb and doing something completely different is a huge risk that many studios aren't willing to take.

Thanks,
Mike
Working on Social Strategy MMORTS (now Launched!) http://www.worldalpha.com

  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

9/14/12 12:52:54 PM#20
Originally posted by qombi

World of Warcraft Mists of Pandaria .. here we go again with the stolen features from other games.

That's sort of the point of a mature product - it isn't the testbed for bleeding edge experiments, it absorbs and assimilates all the proven good ideas for polished mass consumption.

Think of it like cars: you have the concept cars and you have the production models.  The concept cars are where all the innovation and experimentation happens.  The production models are where consumers get to see all the best ideas collected together from all the experiments.  And of course some people will swear that their well-oiled vintage pre-airbag-and-seatbelt 60's sports car was the peak of technology.