Originally posted by TangentPoint

Originally posted by TheIronLegion

 

Throughout the post I saw the words "I" and "we", meaning that's you and whoever you played with. Not everyone is you. As someone said before some people just want solid voice comms. Is that so wrong? To want to just SAY move instead of having to type it. Am I so wrong for wanting to talk to my friends over skype? is that so evil of me? Does that make me any less of a player because I use it? Am i going to be labeled a noob now, because I value communication. I'm sure anyone in the military will tell you they value being able to hop on a radio and call for support rather than sending carrier pigeons or smoke signals or some whatever other form of communication you can think of [ though the ones listed may be a bit silly].

Okay, now you're just being willfully dishonest and misinterpreting what I say deliberately.

Are you seriously putting forth so ridiculous an assertion just to "make your point"? Really?

Right, because of all the MMOs I've played over the past decade, and all the different people I've grouped with, it was somehow, miraculously only me and those specific people who weren't using voice or found it unnecessary.

You're trying way too hard at this point.

I never said it was "evil of you". I never said it makes you less of a player. I've even said I enjoy using voice chat as well. So, drop the victim thing and stop putting words in my mouth. It's not warranted.

I've simply been indicating that voice chat isn't necessary, nor does it guarantee a smoother run. I've been quite deliberate in pointing that out, with examples. Have you been reading my posts?

And someone mentioned earlier that I "take games way too seriously". Me just wanting to talk to someone instead of cracking my fingers trying to type out a conversation is too serious? I'd rather be called lazy...honestly that's what that boils down to.

You need to respond to that person, then. I never said that.

 

I'm just stating it how it is. You say you think it is unnecessary, well there is a fairly large mass who think differently. Whether or not it is needed, who knows, who cares. I know that I enjoy it and prefer it in a dungeon run. Does it gurantee success, no, but it greatly increases the chances and reduces the margin for error. Because you can shout DONT TOUCH THAT BUTTON instead of typing it out, and by that time the guy has already gone and done it and all hell has broken loose. and no one is putting words in your mouth and yes i've read your posts. Because I disagree i clearly must not have read them... And no one is being a victim. I just think it's stupid to discredit something that has made gaming and communicating information so much easier and stress free since its inception. I don't think anyone can deny that instantly being able to tell someone something is a plus. I mean look at us. We're on a forums. Though there is a delay, being the time between me posting and you reading, this is quite instant. I think this conversation would've died ages ago had we communicated by say, written letter.

"My good man,

I completely disagree and refuse to adhere any of your ideals and hereby discharge your facts as false! Should you wish to dispute my accusations you may challenge me to a duel of honor; Queensbury rules, of course.

Signed,

Reginald Baronbonds"

Originally posted by TangentPoint

Originally posted by Leethe
Honestly? Theere just isn't time between ressing, running, healing, buffing and laying down combo fields. For a game that has no community I sure get a lot of thankyous when I save some guys bacon. During some of the DEs tonight, when a boss spawned, a player turned to me and said "We doin this?" and I was like  "Hell yeah!" and that was it. Nothing else needed to be said because we were were back to back all the way to the end. I seem to spend more time playing like I'm on a team than I do looking or sounding like I am. 

In older MMOs that were designed around the concept of a social community that actually acts like one instead of a bunch of "soloers in a group", you had everything that you decribed above and a sense of being among people with actual personalities and interesting or funny things to say... great conversations, etc.

You got to enjoy both. They weren't mutually exclusive.

If someone has never played the older MMOs and actually experienced first-hand what a real and actively social community is, they will never understand that.

Of course, the industry has been heading this way for years now, since WoW broke on to the scene and started catering to the "solo-friendly 'til end-game" mentality. Players pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed for more and more soloable content, considering anything where they had to - heaven forbid - cooperate with someone else to be "forced grouping", as though it was some kind of evil thing to actually work as part of a team instead of a lone wolf.

And please don't come back with the typical hyperbolic answer of, "well I don't have time to stand around for 5 hours a night looking for a group". I never had to, either and I grouped almost exclusively in older MMOs. If you had to spend that much time waiting to get into a group, then you either were putting zero effort into it, waiting for the group to come to you. Or, you had a shitty attitude, sucked to group with, your reputation got around and no one wanted to group with you.

A benefit of real server communities in older MMOs is that your reputation actually meant something - nowadays you'd be lucky if anyone outside your guild or, hell, even in your guild knew of you at all.

MMOs have been going toward catering to the "me, me, me.. it's all about me" generation. GW2 is simply continuing that trend. Anyone who knows what true community is in a MMORPG knows that the idea of "public events" or "public quests" or what-have-you (just like in WAR and Rift) are not actual community activities. It's like this cheesy con-job being played by the developers to sorta give the impression of there being "group activity" without actually having it.

"Oh look! I'm doing stuff among a bunch of other players! This must be what a server community is!" No. Not even close. A bunch of soloers running around in the same area doing the same thing is not group content. Especially when, as I'm seeing mentioned more and more over time about GW2, hardly anyone's even so much as communicating at all.

So, you're complaining that there's no way in GW2 to make a name for yourself and establish and end-game reputation that "actually means something", then you're saying that the game caters to the "me, me, me" crowd?  You might want to rethink that.  The MMOG industry has been moving from servicing basically a hardcore, professional-quality game crowd to a more general population, casual customer base for years now. GW2 is the first game (IMO) designed from the ground up to appeal to that community directly, which is a broader, larger population. 

Not everyone plays MMOGs to establish a name and a reputation for themselves in the game, nor do we require recognition and accolades for quietly contributing to our guild and keeping an eye out for our fellow players on the battlefield.  Just because our  community doesn't satisfy your need to "make a name for yourself" doesn't mean that our community isn't a "real" community, Mr. No True Scotsman.  I suggest League of Legends or even GW2's sPvP if you have a need to be noticed and remembered in a game.

Originally posted by kadepsyson

Originally posted by fiontar

The quality of the community, on my server anyway, is about the best I've seen in a decade. Everyone is too busy having fun to engage in bored chat. People do cooperate in this game, constantly, but it doesn't require much communication in chat. In WvW, the chat is just enough to coordinate and be productive, I see no BS chat there at all and peope actually listen and react when the call to arms goes ot for attackers, defenders or objective skirmishers.

For things that require more coordination with formal parties, I think most people are using various voice chat options. I mostly group with people I know and we voice chat when we play. Most guilds today use voice chat. It makes sense in general, but it's even more important in a game with such active combat, there really isn't time in the middle of a battle to stop and type much of anything, beyond the occassional "Adds!" or "Run!". :)

 

So there's barely any chat.  But the community is great because they are all cooperating seperately but together to achieve a personal goal.  In other words, they don't say anything, and for all you know could completely hate everyone around them, and are only using them to get the event done then leave them never to see them again.

In WvW there's some chat, I noticed.  People typing in all caps, absolutely ripping into other people for going the wrong way, or not doing what they want, or for any number of different things.

I'm sorry the last 10 years of communities you've experienced have been so atrocious :(

Whether they chat or not, you still don't know what their motivations are. There's this thing called "lying" .... 

Originally posted by Meleagar

Originally posted by kadepsyson

Originally posted by fiontar

The quality of the community, on my server anyway, is about the best I've seen in a decade. Everyone is too busy having fun to engage in bored chat. People do cooperate in this game, constantly, but it doesn't require much communication in chat. In WvW, the chat is just enough to coordinate and be productive, I see no BS chat there at all and peope actually listen and react when the call to arms goes ot for attackers, defenders or objective skirmishers.

For things that require more coordination with formal parties, I think most people are using various voice chat options. I mostly group with people I know and we voice chat when we play. Most guilds today use voice chat. It makes sense in general, but it's even more important in a game with such active combat, there really isn't time in the middle of a battle to stop and type much of anything, beyond the occassional "Adds!" or "Run!". :)

 

So there's barely any chat.  But the community is great because they are all cooperating seperately but together to achieve a personal goal.  In other words, they don't say anything, and for all you know could completely hate everyone around them, and are only using them to get the event done then leave them never to see them again.

In WvW there's some chat, I noticed.  People typing in all caps, absolutely ripping into other people for going the wrong way, or not doing what they want, or for any number of different things.

I'm sorry the last 10 years of communities you've experienced have been so atrocious :(

Whether they chat or not, you still don't know what their motivations are. There's this thing called "lying" .... 

Which is pretty much similar to what I said.

Actually, chat was one of the things I really disliked about other MMOGs.  I mean, you know, a lot of players aren't .. well ... very "chatable". That's probably true of most people whether they are game players or not.  I mean, they're good for "hi" and "man, it's hot today" .. but how many strangers do you talk to for more than a few minutes before they say something unsettling, crazy, or just flat-out stupid?

Then, putting those people in a game where anonymity and lack of possibility of physical confrontation frees up their inner crazy to say whatever they want, and also in a game where they can use their "crazy" to get negative attention, and use forced grouping and interaction game mechanics to inflict their crazy (or stupid) on other players.

In GW2, I don't have to put up with any of that,and I still get to participate in epic-style "raids", "end-game" content, and acquire top level gear. I don't have to wait 30 minutes to get into a group and then decide if I want to listen to some nimrod's racist ranting for the next hour, or put up with some other guy's constant harping about how I play my character, or going on and on about some other obsessive tripe I couldn't care less about. If you want to see the effect of forced grouping and game mechanic-dependent "community" on chat, log into League of Legends a few times and enjoy the chat.

For the most part, for most of the human race, IMO, less chat due to GW2-style game mechanics and more non-verbal (non-textual) interaction makes for a better community, because social misfits no longer have the power to inflict themselves on others via forced grouping/forced communication required to achieve top content.

Originally posted by TheIronLegion

Originally posted by TangentPoint

Originally posted by TheIronLegion

 

Throughout the post I saw the words "I" and "we", meaning that's you and whoever you played with. Not everyone is you. As someone said before some people just want solid voice comms. Is that so wrong? To want to just SAY move instead of having to type it. Am I so wrong for wanting to talk to my friends over skype? is that so evil of me? Does that make me any less of a player because I use it? Am i going to be labeled a noob now, because I value communication. I'm sure anyone in the military will tell you they value being able to hop on a radio and call for support rather than sending carrier pigeons or smoke signals or some whatever other form of communication you can think of [ though the ones listed may be a bit silly].

Okay, now you're just being willfully dishonest and misinterpreting what I say deliberately.

Are you seriously putting forth so ridiculous an assertion just to "make your point"? Really?

Right, because of all the MMOs I've played over the past decade, and all the different people I've grouped with, it was somehow, miraculously only me and those specific people who weren't using voice or found it unnecessary.

You're trying way too hard at this point.

I never said it was "evil of you". I never said it makes you less of a player. I've even said I enjoy using voice chat as well. So, drop the victim thing and stop putting words in my mouth. It's not warranted.

I've simply been indicating that voice chat isn't necessary, nor does it guarantee a smoother run. I've been quite deliberate in pointing that out, with examples. Have you been reading my posts?

And someone mentioned earlier that I "take games way too seriously". Me just wanting to talk to someone instead of cracking my fingers trying to type out a conversation is too serious? I'd rather be called lazy...honestly that's what that boils down to.

You need to respond to that person, then. I never said that.

 

I'm just stating it how it is. You say you think it is unnecessary, well there is a fairly large mass who think differently. Whether or not it is needed, who knows, who cares. I know that I enjoy it and prefer it in a dungeon run. Does it gurantee success, no, but it greatly increases the chances and reduces the margin for error. Because you can shout DONT TOUCH THAT BUTTON instead of typing it out, and by that time the guy has already gone and done it and all hell has broken loose. and no one is putting words in your mouth and yes i've read your posts. Because I disagree i clearly must not have read them... And no one is being a victim. I just think it's stupid to discredit something that has made gaming and communicating information so much easier and stress free since its inception. I don't think anyone can deny that instantly being able to tell someone something is a plus. I mean look at us. We're on a forums. Though there is a delay, being the time between me posting and you reading, this is quite instant. I think this conversation would've died ages ago had we communicated by say, written letter.

"My good man,

I completely disagree and refuse to adhere any of your ideals and hereby discharge your facts as false! Should you wish to dispute my accusations you may challenge me to a duel of honor; Queensbury rules, of course.

Signed,

Reginald Baronbonds"

 

Not realy replying to your post. I finally gave in and googled Gangnam style because of your sig. Your not the person typing that in chat in all caps on Darkhaven are you?

Originally posted by Xzen

Originally posted by TheIronLegion

Originally posted by TangentPoint

Originally posted by TheIronLegion

 

Throughout the post I saw the words "I" and "we", meaning that's you and whoever you played with. Not everyone is you. As someone said before some people just want solid voice comms. Is that so wrong? To want to just SAY move instead of having to type it. Am I so wrong for wanting to talk to my friends over skype? is that so evil of me? Does that make me any less of a player because I use it? Am i going to be labeled a noob now, because I value communication. I'm sure anyone in the military will tell you they value being able to hop on a radio and call for support rather than sending carrier pigeons or smoke signals or some whatever other form of communication you can think of [ though the ones listed may be a bit silly].

Okay, now you're just being willfully dishonest and misinterpreting what I say deliberately.

Are you seriously putting forth so ridiculous an assertion just to "make your point"? Really?

Right, because of all the MMOs I've played over the past decade, and all the different people I've grouped with, it was somehow, miraculously only me and those specific people who weren't using voice or found it unnecessary.

You're trying way too hard at this point.

I never said it was "evil of you". I never said it makes you less of a player. I've even said I enjoy using voice chat as well. So, drop the victim thing and stop putting words in my mouth. It's not warranted.

I've simply been indicating that voice chat isn't necessary, nor does it guarantee a smoother run. I've been quite deliberate in pointing that out, with examples. Have you been reading my posts?

And someone mentioned earlier that I "take games way too seriously". Me just wanting to talk to someone instead of cracking my fingers trying to type out a conversation is too serious? I'd rather be called lazy...honestly that's what that boils down to.

You need to respond to that person, then. I never said that.

 

I'm just stating it how it is. You say you think it is unnecessary, well there is a fairly large mass who think differently. Whether or not it is needed, who knows, who cares. I know that I enjoy it and prefer it in a dungeon run. Does it gurantee success, no, but it greatly increases the chances and reduces the margin for error. Because you can shout DONT TOUCH THAT BUTTON instead of typing it out, and by that time the guy has already gone and done it and all hell has broken loose. and no one is putting words in your mouth and yes i've read your posts. Because I disagree i clearly must not have read them... And no one is being a victim. I just think it's stupid to discredit something that has made gaming and communicating information so much easier and stress free since its inception. I don't think anyone can deny that instantly being able to tell someone something is a plus. I mean look at us. We're on a forums. Though there is a delay, being the time between me posting and you reading, this is quite instant. I think this conversation would've died ages ago had we communicated by say, written letter.

"My good man,

I completely disagree and refuse to adhere any of your ideals and hereby discharge your facts as false! Should you wish to dispute my accusations you may challenge me to a duel of honor; Queensbury rules, of course.

Signed,

Reginald Baronbonds"

 

Not realy replying to your post. I finally gave in and googled Gangnam style because of your sig. Your not the person typing that in chat in all caps on Darkhaven are you?

No lol. But I did think the This is gangnam style thing was pretty funny so I held onto it.

Originally posted by Leethe

Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by RizelStar

Originally posted by compoundcut

Originally posted by Leethe
Honestly? Theere just isn't time between ressing, running, healing, buffing and laying down combo fields. For a game that has no community I sure get a lot of thankyous when I save some guys bacon. During some of the DEs tonight, when a boss spawned, a player turned to me and said "We doin this?" and I was like  "Hell yeah!" and that was it. Nothing else needed to be said because we were were back to back all the way to the end. I seem to spend more time playing like I'm on a team than I do looking or sounding like I am. 

This ^

 

This as well lol

so if you were replaced by a bot.. would anyone notice ?

button mashing does not equate to social interraction..  maybe games do need more voice comms integrated into them

Actually it's funny you mention bots.

I occasionally come across a naked player with a sword just standing there. During a DE they get stomped and sometimes resed but once they're up players can see its just a bot and we then go out of our way to kite mobs toward them and watch them go down. So to answer your very dodgy question: Yes, if I was replaced with a bot everyone would notice.

It doesn't even have to be a bot. I found a nekkid sylvari standing next to a heart vendor in Gendarren Fields. She was just a bit off to the side. A spider kept spawning so I killed it a time or two. I came back later found her dead and instinctively started to rez her. Cant have a dead player symbol just sitting there on my mini map after all. Then I realized the reason she was nekkid was because people kept rezing and rezing and rezing her until her armor stopped showing for being broken.

Don't go AFK for a long time in a place where something might kill you. Because people WILL rez you and you will have to pay a bundle to repair your red broken armor.

The game is simply too overhelming and fast paced.

I love chat , but admit it. People only chat when they have nothing better to do

Originally posted by kadepsyson
As an aside, I wish I had more freedom in positioning the chat window.

I'm sure if you don't start a thread about it and how it's a major flaw and setting the MMO genre back 200 years, someone else will.  It will just be par for the course for GW2 forums as of lately.

Originally posted by Lobotomist

The game is simply too overhelming and fast paced.

I love chat , but admit it. People only chat when they have nothing better to do

that's is why God invented voice chat. No way I can type and fight even in the old school stand there and spam your ability bar games let alone this one

This is something I have always worried about when it comes to this game. There simply is no reason to group up or interact with those around you other than to join them in zergs completing dynamic events. Communication is simply not required for 90% of the activities in game. I have long thought that this could lead to a virtually non-existant community.

Indeed this does seem to be happening already... I rarely ever see anyone talking in map chat unless they are talking smack to each other for fun or asking how to complete a POI or other map objective.

I have to say I find this rather troubling as an MMO with no real community will have very little lasting appeal to many players such as myself. There is little reason to play an MMORPG over a single player game if you don't socialize.

I have yet to talk to another player, and as other people mentioned, it is because there is no reason to.

I can run up and help in a DE without talking, and without them talking. The goals aren't tough and they don' t take teamwork. As long as I shoot the thing a few times I get credit (I'm not sure how little you have to do to not get a gold for participation in this game). If I see someone down I revive them for two reasons 1) It is a nice thing to do and 2) The game rewards you for it.

I've never had to stop and try to create or join an actual group for anything so I don't have to talk. Since I'm constantly killing, gathering, or randomly stomping mushrooms for a heart, there is also no point in stopping what I'm doing to chat about a random topic either.

One thing that created a lot of social interaction in older games was the downtime. You had to rest between fights to get your vitals back up. You had to wait for the boat to make the round trip to come back and get you. It took a while to run to places. Whatever the reason, the downtime made you talk about things, many times not game related, to kill time and it caused people to get to know one another.

With GW2 there is no down time, there is no need to form an actual group. So you just go into achievement mode and keep scratching the items off the list as more get piled on when you run around.

Why don't people in cities stop in the streets where hundreds of people are moving around them and start up a conversation? They're in the middle of going somewhere or doing something. People chat mostly when they aren't doing things. It isn't a crazy concept.

And yes. Some people will always be talking somewhere in GW2. I don't know why the counter argument to anything on the MMORPG forums is either "I just did that therefore your argument is wrong" or "I've never had that happen therefore your argument is wrong". That's like having 1 person exonerated from prison and saying "Well therefore all prisoners are not guilty". There is always an exception. In GW2 those who talk are the exception, not the rule.

Originally posted by StanlyStanko
Bring up politics or religion for a quick fix on that!

Oh HELL NO. The past few days, all Ive been seeing are "ROMNEY IS THE !@#$" and "PEGANISM IS #1" no! no more religion or politics.  Heck it got so bad that I decided to type out "I GOT A [Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker]" several times just to transform the chat into barrens chat. 

Ive never had a problem with finding people to talk to though.  Just a few nights ago, there was a great discussion about the pros and cons of getting a vasectomy!  This was in Jade Quarry Queensdale! Or wait was it Gendarren Fields...Either of those!

Also you dont have to cancel your trip to Disneyland! I went to knotsberry farm alone and ended up hanging out with a bunch of people who I just met there for the whole day! Fun stuff! No not really fun...Those rollie coasters are !@#$ing scary -.-

I said thank you for getting rezzed. But in a game with so much to explore and things to kill, theres no time to sip a cup of tea and have a chat with smalltalk. If you want more than "Thanks for the rez!" or "Lets kill that mob!" then join a guild. Youll get your fill of usless spam in chatbox.

Edit: Also if you go to the maps with dungeons youll find lots of people spamming LFG. I have to wonder what server youre on or something.

I wonder if most of you are really playing this game there is so much chat going on in my server in most areas you cant get a word in at times and its mostly game stuff but from time to time you get the out of nowhere Wow joke or Chuck Norris joke some even used the old Leroy Jenkins joke when they throw themselves to there death. But I have seen crap chat in lowbie areas like Queensdale and the Asuran starter area.

The worst was day 2 after release and seen alot of gripping about the Asuran jumping quest sense then I seen a few grips about the game like how they hate how long some DE's take to restart or they cant find enough people to kill X boss or what have you. And I see lots of chat in towns about crafting and class stuff I turn off chat in town but only did that 2 times once in Divinty's and the other in LA after the WvW went down other then that its been ok not no major drama or gripping just people chatting.

I play on Aspenwood US server.

Originally posted by Kuro1n

Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by Kuro1n

Originally posted by StanlyStanko
Bring up politics or religion for a quick fix on that!

Yeah damn I'll try that. haha

I'd be really careful with that. Anet has been really coming down HARD on people who they deem to be creating a "hostile environment".

Seriously? Wow why don't we name this game North Korea Online already? :)

' we don't like people to talk, and if you talk about something that is touchy or otherwise we do not like then prepare to get punished as we see fit'. Nice.

From these forums, I've read about some over zealous banning on Anet's part.

As mentioned before, I am wondering if the lack of Map chat and silly bannings/reportings vary by server. I can definitely say on Tarnished Coast the map chat is alive and kicking complete with some topics that would make Ron Jeremy blush (at least in the Chaar areas), I'm no reporter but there were definitely a few things that got even me to consider hitting the report button.