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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Love the game, but ability progression is the weakest part

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143 posts found
  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

9/13/12 7:56:05 AM#61
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by wowfan1996
Originally posted by Nikkita

61 abilities, 18 talents. What OP is saing is that ability progression goes all the way till 90. in GW2 is stops around 40. 

You don't stop getting trait points and unlocking utilitiy/elite skills around 40 in GW2. Please, stop spreading misinformation.

The GW2 skill system is fine. Different != bad.

Maybe put some effort in reading OP? i bet you didn't even read it because we are talking about active skill progression not passive traits.  Are you even playing this game?

 

I'm not convinced you are to be honest. You can't unlock all your utilities by level 40 (which you edited out rather quickly, but I saw it... ). You won't have them all unlocked until after you hit 80. As a matter of fact, with two 30 point elites and what... six or so ten point elites, that's a good 120 levels equivalent of experience just to unlock them.

I edited it because i play a warrior so utility would be wrong term... This is me at lvl 30, see my slot skills? only one elite is unavilable to me rest i can unlock all by collecting as many skill challenges i want. All i have to do is to explore all other zones that i missed. It will be long before 80 and all i am left is with passives.

Just picking nits here, but you realize to unlock all those you're going to need to level up in order to be successful in the higher level zones, right? There aren't enough skill points available in the zones you have access to to unlock all them. There are, at last count, 202 skill challenges in the entire game, which is enough to unlock all the utilities, but they're spread all the way through Orr.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 2001

9/13/12 7:56:12 AM#62
Originally posted by Yamota
Yeah I agree, after level 40 there is no ability progression left. So the rest of the 40 or so levels will be for what, gear only? Very weak...

Not in a game where gear doesn't matter.  You're supposed to have fun just exploring.

"I'm sorry, if you were right, I'd agree with you." - Robin Williams

  User Deleted
9/13/12 7:58:29 AM#63
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by MikeJezZ

http://www.wowhead.com/talent

 

Yeah cus the MoP talent tree looks awesome.

 

Wait, isnt it somewhat like the GW2?

 

You pick some spells for your bar? Hmm, interesting.

61 abilities, 18 talents. What OP is saing is that ability progression goes all the way till 90. in GW2 is stops around 40. 

 

If that's what he's saying then he's full of crap. You don't unlock your last trait point until level 80, and if you don't think traits significantly affect how you play you may want to sit down and really take a good look at the system. Simply unlocking the major trait where my clones cripple foes when destroyed had changed how my mesmer plays, let alone others.

 

Yes, you have a set number of skills available based on weapons, and a larger set of utilities. When you combine them with traits, though, is when you really see the complexity of the system. Suddenly those skills you unlocked on your wepaons do a whole lot more.

He is talking about active skills not passive traits.

Right now GW1, TSW and even Rift gives you a lot more option in skill variation. What if i want to stick to only one weapon? are you telling me i should be penalized in a MMO which says play how you want because i prefer hammer as a warrior?

Yes you get utlities  but the skills for your weapon are locked for you. It is like someone else decided the weapon skills for me and i have no choice but to stick with those.

Aparently anet belive you should, but to be honest this is like asking why you can just use one skill in dungeons in other mmorpg. Its the skill you want to use and why should you be punishd for it.

As for the op i agree, i dont want more active skills but i would love to be able to choose more for myself.

  UtukuMoon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/03/11
Posts: 1109

9/13/12 7:58:31 AM#64
Originally posted by wowfan1996
Originally posted by Sylvarii
  I'm sick to the back teeth of the defenders using lines like this,it's another stealth learn how to play line.

The GW2 thief is a boring train wreck when you compare it to the Burglar class in LOTRO.By level 20 i really was bored out of my skull,i really could not go on any longer with that class/profession.

So you admit that you've been told numerous times that your problem is L2P (which it is) and also admit you refuse to L2P and still you come back to these forums... looking for what exactly?

 

I haven't admited anything,are you reading the right thread?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8ymgFyzbDo

  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6505

"I fight so you don't have to."

9/13/12 7:58:44 AM#65
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by Yamota
Yeah I agree, after level 40 there is no ability progression left. So the rest of the 40 or so levels will be for what, gear only? Very weak...

Not in a game where gear doesn't matter.  You're supposed to have fun just exploring.

I am not talking about fun or things to do, I am talking specifically about character progression. Why have 80 levels when you will have all your activeable skills by level 40? So the rest of the level progression is for gear and passive skills only?

  Nikkita

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/25/10
Posts: 830

9/13/12 7:59:13 AM#66
Originally posted by Volkon
Just picking nits here, but you realize to unlock all those you're going to need to level up in order to be successful in the higher level zones, right? There aren't enough skill points available in the zones you have access to to unlock all them. There are, at last count, 202 skill challenges in the entire game, which is enough to unlock all the utilities, but they're spread all the way through Orr.

Originally posted by Pigozz


I think you all know what I mean

The weapon skills all learned around first 7 levels

And pretty much all utility abillities learned by level 40 (if you grind challenges)


I think OP said pretty much all. He never said all of them.


Bite Me

  Roin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/12/03
Posts: 2867

9/13/12 7:59:50 AM#67
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by wowfan1996
Originally posted by Nikkita
Maybe put some effort in reading OP? i bet you didn't even read it because we are talking about active skill progression not passive traits.  Are you even playing this game?

I did read the OP but I think your assessment is fundamentally wrong. Traits are important as they define your playstyle and you get to select a traits-based skill every 10 leves. Plus you still unlock new utilitiy skills - those are active even if not weapon-based.

 

Ok lets try this again. No one is ignoring passive traits. That is not what OP was saying. When ge says he feels lack of progression beyond lvl 40 he meant in terms of active skills that you can equip on your hotbar. Something to look forward to and click on.

Even OP mentioned that the only thing to look forward is passive skills so he definitely didn't ignore those.

You might as well give up this argument.  There seems to be an impossible to fix error between what you are saying, and what they are understanding it as.  I do agree with the OP though, as I've been at 47 now for more then a week.  There is no pull for me to play the game because there is nothing to look forward to.  I like being a GS warrior, but fact of the matter is I had all my GS skill before even hitting level 5.  There are no new ones.  There are no AA/Traits/Talents/Skill Upgrades/etc that will drastically change and/or add new ones. 

In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

9/13/12 7:59:51 AM#68
Originally posted by Yamota
Yeah I agree, after level 40 there is no ability progression left. So the rest of the 40 or so levels will be for what, gear only? Very weak...

Again with the level 40 crap. Someone made this up and people are licking it up like it's gospel.

 

You will not have unlocked all your utilities before you reach level 80. You won't have unlocked all your trait points until level 80.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 2001

9/13/12 8:00:09 AM#69
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by Yamota
Yeah I agree, after level 40 there is no ability progression left. So the rest of the 40 or so levels will be for what, gear only? Very weak...

Not in a game where gear doesn't matter.  You're supposed to have fun just exploring.

I am not talking about fun or things to do, I am talking specifically about character progression. Why have 80 levels when you will have all your activeable skills by level 40? So the rest of the level progression is for gear and passive skills only?

Apparently.  Again, I think the level 80 cap wasn't thought through and through for the design.

"I'm sorry, if you were right, I'd agree with you." - Robin Williams

  TheIronLegion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/06/12
Posts: 270

Act with wisdom, but act.

9/13/12 8:00:11 AM#70
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by wowfan1996
Originally posted by Nikkita

61 abilities, 18 talents. What OP is saing is that ability progression goes all the way till 90. in GW2 is stops around 40. 

You don't stop getting trait points and unlocking utilitiy/elite skills around 40 in GW2. Please, stop spreading misinformation.

The GW2 skill system is fine. Different != bad.

Maybe put some effort in reading OP? i bet you didn't even read it because we are talking about active skill progression not passive traits.  Are you even playing this game?

 

I'm not convinced you are to be honest. You can't unlock all your utilities by level 40 (which you edited out rather quickly, but I saw it... ). You won't have them all unlocked until after you hit 80. As a matter of fact, with two 30 point elites and what... six or so ten point elites, that's a good 120 levels equivalent of experience just to unlock them.

I edited it because i play a warrior so utility would be wrong term... This is me at lvl 30, see my slot skills? only one elite is unavilable to me rest i can unlock all by collecting as many skill challenges i want. All i have to do is to explore all other zones that i missed. It will be long before 80 and all i am left is with passives.

Just picking nits here, but you realize to unlock all those you're going to need to level up in order to be successful in the higher level zones, right? There aren't enough skill points available in the zones you have access to to unlock all them. There are, at last count, 202 skill challenges in the entire game, which is enough to unlock all the utilities, but they're spread all the way through Orr.

Hey let's see those traits! Or do those just not exist...obviously not to most people who don't understand what they do.

  Adiaris

Novice Member

Joined: 10/12/08
Posts: 382

9/13/12 8:00:45 AM#71
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by wowfan1996
Originally posted by Nikkita
Maybe put some effort in reading OP? i bet you didn't even read it because we are talking about active skill progression not passive traits.  Are you even playing this game?

I did read the OP but I think your assessment is fundamentally wrong. Traits are important as they define your playstyle and you get to select a traits-based skill every 10 leves. Plus you still unlock new utilitiy skills - those are active even if not weapon-based.

 

Ok lets try this again. No one is ignoring passive traits. That is not what OP was saying. When ge says he feels lack of progression beyond lvl 40 he meant in terms of active skills that you can equip on your hotbar. Something to look forward to and click on.

Even OP mentioned that the only thing to look forward is passive skills so he definitely didn't ignore those.

No, I'm pretty sure we get that. I think a number of us have issue understanding why this is, in fact, an issue at all. I use more skills actively in GW2 than any other game I've ever played, it doesn't really matter to me when I got them tbh. I don't need a fake active skill progression system to keep me going, I need an interesting and varied skill set to keep playing, amongst other things. Which GW2 has, if people don't see that... well then.. not much can be done!

That said, I'm sure they'll add more wpns, elites and utilities, though I doubt they'll add alternative skills to current sets, but who knows. 

But really, like most of these very specific threads, one change - even one you really want - is not going to change the outlook of the game for you, or it might for 5 seconds. You either pretty much like the whole package and whatever details you don't like u can live with, or you don't. (and yes this goes for any game). 

Funnily enough, none of the things I have an issue with have been brought up on these forums, but they're prevalent in threads on official forums and my guild.

  Nikkita

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/25/10
Posts: 830

9/13/12 8:02:54 AM#72
Originally posted by Adiaris
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by wowfan1996
Originally posted by Nikkita
Maybe put some effort in reading OP? i bet you didn't even read it because we are talking about active skill progression not passive traits.  Are you even playing this game?

I did read the OP but I think your assessment is fundamentally wrong. Traits are important as they define your playstyle and you get to select a traits-based skill every 10 leves. Plus you still unlock new utilitiy skills - those are active even if not weapon-based.

 

Ok lets try this again. No one is ignoring passive traits. That is not what OP was saying. When ge says he feels lack of progression beyond lvl 40 he meant in terms of active skills that you can equip on your hotbar. Something to look forward to and click on.

Even OP mentioned that the only thing to look forward is passive skills so he definitely didn't ignore those.

No, I'm pretty sure we get that. I think a number of us have issue understanding why this is, in fact, an issue at all. I use more skills actively in GW2 than any other game I've ever played, it doesn't really matter to me when I got them tbh. I don't need a fake active skill progression system to keep me going, I need an interesting and varied skill set to keep playing, amongst other things. Which GW2 has, if people don't see that... well then.. not much can be done!

That said, I'm sure they'll add more wpns, elites and utilities, though I doubt they'll add alternative skills to current sets, but who knows. 

But really, like most of these very specific threads, one change - even one you really want - is not going to change the outlook of the game for you, or it might for 5 seconds. You either pretty much like the whole package and whatever details you don't like u can live with, or you don't. (and yes this goes for any game). 

Funnily enough, none of the things I have an issue with have been brought up on these forums, but they're prevalent in threads on official forums and my guild.

Because people feel progression in different ways? some enjoy it with levels, other like to unlock new skills as they hit max, for others it is fun watchign their stats go up..etc..etc.

And for someone like me who played GW1 for 5 years, skills in GW2 feel restrictive and limited. So i am one of those hoping that number of skills will increase a few months.


Bite Me

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

9/13/12 8:03:58 AM#73
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by Volkon
Just picking nits here, but you realize to unlock all those you're going to need to level up in order to be successful in the higher level zones, right? There aren't enough skill points available in the zones you have access to to unlock all them. There are, at last count, 202 skill challenges in the entire game, which is enough to unlock all the utilities, but they're spread all the way through Orr.

Originally posted by Pigozz


I think you all know what I mean

The weapon skills all learned around first 7 levels

And pretty much all utility abillities learned by level 40 (if you grind challenges)


I think OP said pretty much all. He never said all of them.

He said it... doesn't mean he's right. The weapon skills you can learn all early, that's not in dispute. The utilities will take you well past level 40, and by ignoring traits he ignores a significant part of the build process, which is disingenuous at best.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  Adiaris

Novice Member

Joined: 10/12/08
Posts: 382

9/13/12 8:06:10 AM#74
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by Adiaris
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by wowfan1996
Originally posted by Nikkita
Maybe put some effort in reading OP? i bet you didn't even read it because we are talking about active skill progression not passive traits.  Are you even playing this game?

I did read the OP but I think your assessment is fundamentally wrong. Traits are important as they define your playstyle and you get to select a traits-based skill every 10 leves. Plus you still unlock new utilitiy skills - those are active even if not weapon-based.

 

Ok lets try this again. No one is ignoring passive traits. That is not what OP was saying. When ge says he feels lack of progression beyond lvl 40 he meant in terms of active skills that you can equip on your hotbar. Something to look forward to and click on.

Even OP mentioned that the only thing to look forward is passive skills so he definitely didn't ignore those.

No, I'm pretty sure we get that. I think a number of us have issue understanding why this is, in fact, an issue at all. I use more skills actively in GW2 than any other game I've ever played, it doesn't really matter to me when I got them tbh. I don't need a fake active skill progression system to keep me going, I need an interesting and varied skill set to keep playing, amongst other things. Which GW2 has, if people don't see that... well then.. not much can be done!

That said, I'm sure they'll add more wpns, elites and utilities, though I doubt they'll add alternative skills to current sets, but who knows. 

But really, like most of these very specific threads, one change - even one you really want - is not going to change the outlook of the game for you, or it might for 5 seconds. You either pretty much like the whole package and whatever details you don't like u can live with, or you don't. (and yes this goes for any game). 

Funnily enough, none of the things I have an issue with have been brought up on these forums, but they're prevalent in threads on official forums and my guild.

Because people feel progression in different ways? some enjoy it with levels, other like to unlock new skills as they hit max, for others it is fun watchign their stats go up..etc..etc.

And for someone like me who played GW1 for 5 years, skills in GW2 feel restrictive and limited. So i am one of those hoping that number of skills will increase a few months.

Clearly. My real question is, why is this progression such a big deal to you people? Is it really changing your enjoyment of the game? I really don't get what it is that's being said, sorry, but I'm the person that dinged 80 thinking he was dinging 79, that's how hard I look at the levels. 

  wowfan1996

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/09
Posts: 741

9/13/12 8:08:02 AM#75
Originally posted by Nikkita

Ok lets try this again. No one is ignoring passive traits. That is not what OP was saying. When ge says he feels lack of progression beyond lvl 40 he meant in terms of active skills that you can equip on your hotbar. Something to look forward to and click on.

Even OP mentioned that the only thing to look forward is passive skills so he definitely didn't ignore those.

Active weapon skills aren't everything. First, there are utilites and elite skills. Second, you need to consider combos including cross-class ones. Third, you have unique class mechanics (Engineer has weapon kits, Thief has Steal that grives semi-random abilities, Mesmer has mantras and several ways to destroy illusions for additional effects, Nerco has various pets, etc.).

Also don't forget weapon sets. All in all you have access to 15-20 active skills at any time plus combos. Yes, you get all your weapon skills rather early but so what? In any MMO you spend most of your play time at max level not getting new skills either.

MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 2001

9/13/12 8:09:14 AM#76
Originally posted by Adiaris

No, I'm pretty sure we get that. I think a number of us have issue understanding why this is, in fact, an issue at all. I use more skills actively in GW2 than any other game I've ever played, it doesn't really matter to me when I got them tbh. I don't need a fake active skill progression system to keep me going, I need an interesting and varied skill set to keep playing, amongst other things. Which GW2 has, if people don't see that... well then.. not much can be done!

That said, I'm sure they'll add more wpns, elites and utilities, though I doubt they'll add alternative skills to current sets, but who knows. 

But really, like most of these very specific threads, one change - even one you really want - is not going to change the outlook of the game for you, or it might for 5 seconds. You either pretty much like the whole package and whatever details you don't like u can live with, or you don't. (and yes this goes for any game). 

Funnily enough, none of the things I have an issue with have been brought up on these forums, but they're prevalent in threads on official forums and my guild.

I don't agree with this.  We all have said we like this game and are just offering up criticism; why does the game's features have to be set in stone?  MMOs have always been a work in progress so to speak...this black or white issue with game's features is really just a defense mechanism to deflect the issue at hand.

"I'm sorry, if you were right, I'd agree with you." - Robin Williams

  Pilnkplonk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/02/10
Posts: 1566

9/13/12 8:09:59 AM#77

How refreshing to read a valid criticism on GW2 on these here forums. Thanx OP!

On topic, imo alternative weapon skills would be the way to go to make the skill progression deeper and more lasting. Imo this wouldn't be a hard thing to implement and I wouldn't be surprised if Anet is thinking about it for a future expansion or something. In fact, when i first heard about skills being tied to weapons I automatically envisioned that you'd be able to pick and choose your weapons skills. However, the game has only started and with traits and utilites and whatnots i believe it would be a bit too complex to have such a system in the game from the getgo. I'm almost willing to bet alternative weapons skills are scheduled to appear somewhere down the line...

  Adiaris

Novice Member

Joined: 10/12/08
Posts: 382

9/13/12 8:10:16 AM#78
Originally posted by wowfan1996
Originally posted by Nikkita

Ok lets try this again. No one is ignoring passive traits. That is not what OP was saying. When ge says he feels lack of progression beyond lvl 40 he meant in terms of active skills that you can equip on your hotbar. Something to look forward to and click on.

Even OP mentioned that the only thing to look forward is passive skills so he definitely didn't ignore those.

Active weapon skills aren't everything. First, there are utilites and elite skills. Second, you need to consider combos including cross-class ones. Third, you have have unique class mechanics (Engineer has weapon kits, Thief has Steal that grives semi-random abilities, Mesmer has mantras and several ways to destroy illusions for additional effects, Nerco has various pets, etc.).

Also don't forget weapon sets. All in all you have access to 15-20 active skills at any time plus combos. Yes, you get all your weapon skills rather early but so what? In any MMO you spend most of your play time at max level not getting new skills either.

This also. As I said, I really don't get this argument. I guess it has omething to do with it "makign it easier to level by looking forward to something" but if I felt that way... I'd just not play the game? Getting a new skill ever x levels is not going to make me like the game more or less. And as you say, what then at max level?

  TheIronLegion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/06/12
Posts: 270

Act with wisdom, but act.

9/13/12 8:10:36 AM#79
Originally posted by Adiaris
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by wowfan1996
Originally posted by Nikkita
Maybe put some effort in reading OP? i bet you didn't even read it because we are talking about active skill progression not passive traits.  Are you even playing this game?

I did read the OP but I think your assessment is fundamentally wrong. Traits are important as they define your playstyle and you get to select a traits-based skill every 10 leves. Plus you still unlock new utilitiy skills - those are active even if not weapon-based.

 

Ok lets try this again. No one is ignoring passive traits. That is not what OP was saying. When ge says he feels lack of progression beyond lvl 40 he meant in terms of active skills that you can equip on your hotbar. Something to look forward to and click on.

Even OP mentioned that the only thing to look forward is passive skills so he definitely didn't ignore those.

No, I'm pretty sure we get that. I think a number of us have issue understanding why this is, in fact, an issue at all. I use more skills actively in GW2 than any other game I've ever played, it doesn't really matter to me when I got them tbh. I don't need a fake active skill progression system to keep me going, I need an interesting and varied skill set to keep playing, amongst other things. Which GW2 has, if people don't see that... well then.. not much can be done!

That said, I'm sure they'll add more wpns, elites and utilities, though I doubt they'll add alternative skills to current sets, but who knows. 

But really, like most of these very specific threads, one change - even one you really want - is not going to change the outlook of the game for you, or it might for 5 seconds. You either pretty much like the whole package and whatever details you don't like u can live with, or you don't. (and yes this goes for any game). 

Funnily enough, none of the things I have an issue with have been brought up on these forums, but they're prevalent in threads on official forums and my guild.

I agree wholeheartedly.

  Adiaris

Novice Member

Joined: 10/12/08
Posts: 382

9/13/12 8:11:44 AM#80
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by Adiaris

No, I'm pretty sure we get that. I think a number of us have issue understanding why this is, in fact, an issue at all. I use more skills actively in GW2 than any other game I've ever played, it doesn't really matter to me when I got them tbh. I don't need a fake active skill progression system to keep me going, I need an interesting and varied skill set to keep playing, amongst other things. Which GW2 has, if people don't see that... well then.. not much can be done!

That said, I'm sure they'll add more wpns, elites and utilities, though I doubt they'll add alternative skills to current sets, but who knows. 

But really, like most of these very specific threads, one change - even one you really want - is not going to change the outlook of the game for you, or it might for 5 seconds. You either pretty much like the whole package and whatever details you don't like u can live with, or you don't. (and yes this goes for any game). 

Funnily enough, none of the things I have an issue with have been brought up on these forums, but they're prevalent in threads on official forums and my guild.

I don't agree with this.  We all have said we like this game and are just offering up criticism; why does the game's features have to be set in stone?  MMOs have always been a work in progress so to speak...this black or white issue with game's features is really just a defense mechanism to deflect the issue at hand.

You didn't really get what I'm saying, and I couldn't be less interested in deflecting anything tbh. 

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