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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » POLL-How long before Blizzard copies GW2 questing design?

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179 posts found
  TalulaRose

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 451

9/12/12 2:15:00 PM#161
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Those saying gw2 has quest hubs.

No DES are not quest hubs. Even if you make a tenuous connection that DE = QUEST

You are doing ONE at a time.

What defines quest hubs is going round some village clicking 10 or so ! Marks, looking at the map and then going a route around those playing your shopping list if quests against the map.

Being a quest hub game is not the same thing as being a game with quests.

Wow is a quest hub game. Aoc, lotro, aion & swtor are quest hub games, rift & war are also hub games, but at least give you a way to progress in pve without using hubs.

Gw2 & tsw are not hub based games. Because you don't have the shopping list of quests, you don't have to run back to hand them in and apart from the police station at the start, there's not 1 location with more than 3 quests in tsw case.

Also old games like daoc had quests, but were not quest hub grinders

You can choose to accept one quest at a time in any game that uses quest hubs. You are never forced to accept all at once. It is always up to you to choose how to play the way you wanted whether a game uses quest hubs or doesn't.

 

  Angier2758

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/09
Posts: 1060

9/12/12 2:15:09 PM#162
Originally posted by Misaris

Blizzard will teach the industry what *real* innovation means. With Titan I´m pretty sure they come up with more than yellow circles and a "dynamic" quest log.

No need to copy anything from GW2 (please, no cow feeding Blizzard.. please).

Further *real* innovation, look at World of Darkness and TSW

 I think he's kidding lol.

  Azrile

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/08
Posts: 2615

9/12/12 2:20:01 PM#163
Originally posted by xpiher
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by xpiher

Never because a lot of people are actually complaining about not having quest hubs. So billzard will keep them to keep that market share. Personally I hate quest hubs that send you to next one ect ect. Its boring.

I saw someone mention TSW as innovative... not really. Adding in Mist style puzzles and making your game more like a single player RPG doesn't innovate. 

 


Originally posted by Tardcore How long before MoP sales are picking little peices of GW2 sales out of its gigantic teeth? Oh yeah, 14 more days.
Sorry, but WoW and GW1 were both similarilly successful when released. If anything, the only thing WoW can do is go down because they've already completely expanded their market share. If anything, GW2 is even more casual friendly than WoW is now simply due to the fact that it is F2P. Don't expect WoW to take away anyone from GW2 who isn't playing the game as a filler (which is what most people do between WoW expacs).

 

Funny because i keep reading how so many are playing GW2 as a  filler due to its B2P model.

Yes, many are. But typically speaking, when WoW players look for a filler MMO, it doesn't produce 1million + in sales.  Granted, some people playing GW2 wil leave when PS2 comes out. 

AOC sold 1M boxes, Warhammer almost did also.   Hype does not equal longevity.   AOC even sold 1M boxes knowing there was a subscription after it.   And that, really, has been one of the biggest selling points of GW2, no subs price.   If you put it in that persepective, GW2 really didn´t do that well.  It barely outsold AOC while advertising B2P.

  rojoArcueid

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5819

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

9/12/12 2:21:24 PM#164
im not waiting for Titan because i dont even know any info on that , so if BLizz ever copies ANET's questing system i hope its for WoW. However, if they do that then the 2 games i want to play becomes more similar and i would not have a reason to play one of them. Keep my 2 games of choice different enough so i can play both. No copying please.

  Nikkita

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/25/10
Posts: 830

9/12/12 2:29:53 PM#165
Originally posted by roo67
You seem to have accepted my original arguement that WoW has a lot of very young players in this last post of yours . I don't think GW2 will attract as many players around its lower age range as WoW does even though its a 12+ game . My brothers 8 year old plays WoW without any problem . He just likes going around killing stuff in it . I think younger players would get very confused by GW2 and give it up in frustration . Which is why Blizzard wont copy it .

 

No didn't accept your original argument. If you were just speculating i would understand but you are trying to pas your opinions as a fact. I can also speculate that GW2 is full of kids but i certainly won't tell you it is infact true.

 What is so complex about GW2 that it will puzzle your 8 year old cousin? he can log in now and kill stuff if that is what he likes to do. Stop trying to make GW2 sound complex when it is not. It holds your hand and and guides you and helps you learn the basics. it is a MMO designed for masses and is not a niche title like EVE. 


Bite Me

  waynejr2

Elite Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3863

RIP City of Heroes!

9/12/12 2:30:46 PM#166
Originally posted by Kaspanova
Originally posted by Azrile
Originally posted by Krytycal

I can't see removing quest hubs being too hard to implement, just remove quests givers and make it so the you automatically get the quests whenever you're close to whatever bandits you need to kill, plants you need to water, or NPCs you need to escort.

 

TADA! Dynamics events.

WOW already does this in a lot of places.   I believe they started it in Vashre.   One quest I remember in particular was with the eels.  you get close to a swarm of eels and you get an auto-quest to kill some of them.   When they redid the old world in Cata they added a lot of these type of quest.  There is no questgiver, you just get the quest by getting close to the area where the quest happens.

But funny, WOW had it 2 years ago, but it is going to steal it from GW2?

 

SWTOR had it, they call it AREA Quests.

And when City of Heroes did it with Rikit Invasion badges it was acomplishments.

  Azrile

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/08
Posts: 2615

9/12/12 2:45:40 PM#167
Originally posted by Kaspanova
Originally posted by Azrile
Originally posted by Krytycal

I can't see removing quest hubs being too hard to implement, just remove quests givers and make it so the you automatically get the quests whenever you're close to whatever bandits you need to kill, plants you need to water, or NPCs you need to escort.

 

TADA! Dynamics events.

WOW already does this in a lot of places.   I believe they started it in Vashre.   One quest I remember in particular was with the eels.  you get close to a swarm of eels and you get an auto-quest to kill some of them.   When they redid the old world in Cata they added a lot of these type of quest.  There is no questgiver, you just get the quest by getting close to the area where the quest happens.

But funny, WOW had it 2 years ago, but it is going to steal it from GW2?

 

SWTOR had it, they call it AREA Quests.

And UO had champion spawns about 8 years ago that were similar to PQs and Area quests.

My point isn´t that WOW is very innovative, but it is annoying when fans of a new game think that anything in their game was invented by their devs.   I loved UO back in the day.  I enjoy WOW now.. but I would never look at another game and say ´omg, they stole that from UO´. 

One of the coolest things I heard about Warhammer was PQs... and they were.. very cool.  But after doing a few, it dawning on me how similar they were to champion spawns in UO.

I think it was maybe 3-4 years ago the devs of WOW started talking about the ´christmas tree´ problem with WOW´s questing system (ie hubs)... you walk into crossroads, and suddenly 30 yellow dots popped up on your minimap for quests.  So in Wotlk, and to a greater degree in Cata, they streamlined questing to where you have a dozen smaller ´hubs´ per zone rather than 1 or 2 big hubs with 30 quests.   

In my opinion, i would rather have a quest giver who looks like a person, who is in need of help.  The letter RP are in MMORPG for a reason.  If all you do is enter an area and have a kill counter pop up on your screen.. then it gets a little less like a RPG.

There could be a lot of great debates about game design on these type of forums, but mostly it comes down to some type of highschool football mentality where ´my team´ is better than your team at everything!!!

There is nothing wrong with GW2, but there isn´t anything new in it either.  Almost anything in any new game is just iterations based on other things from different game.   The secret is does the feature make the game fun?

  fatboy21007

Novice Member

Joined: 3/24/10
Posts: 419

9/12/12 2:52:02 PM#168
its pretty simple people, everything has been tried. Unless u can think of wats inovative, it wont happen, so many years of mmo, everything has been tried, tested, ran to the ground. Sure gw2 did a few new neat things. But can ya honestly think of more ways to do it..lol
  Sukiyaki

Elite Member

Joined: 8/14/09
Posts: 1348

9/12/12 3:15:23 PM#169

Blizzard already tried to implement "dynamic events" shortly after GW2 announced the system. They even promoted them as such.

They failed horribly to introduce yet another ripoff feature to sell of as their own.

Dumbing down, met pure incompetence to do produce anything else than clones of other games features and recycling archaic gameconcepts.

Their so called "dynamic event" was nothing but a single endlessly repeating script spawning their endboss npc on some random preset locations, following a short prescripted path and throw some flames that instakill player. Then plop it gone. More effort and thought was spend to hype and advertise the event than producing it.

Another "danymic event" was manually turning on spawnpoints (manually placed before) for generic monster in cities and hubs which had a single gathering point some 30m farther away they moved to after spawning in a straight linr and then munally add some more spawns later. And let  the generic monster attack the player for days until they turned the "event" it off, manually of course. Well that was it. I could have just said they manually spawned some mobs in cities once.

No relations. No environmental changes or physical effects. No cause. No aftereffects. No progression. No branching. No event layering. No event unlocking. No scaling. No permanence. No deepth. No storytelling or gameplay reason. Some not even any bit of interaction. No nothing dynamic at all and any other perks unlike GW2. (Actually it was exactly what WoW kids now try to smear GW2s events to be)

 

[mod edit]

  Sinsai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/13/07
Posts: 222

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.-Benjamin Franklin

9/12/12 3:25:43 PM#170

I voted that they would add it to Titan(maybe IMO).

 

They'll NEVER changed it for WoW,period. 

 

It's too ingrained into WoW's play style and the existing player experience,nearly a decade I might add,for them to make any major changes like that.

  Escafandro

Novice Member

Joined: 5/31/12
Posts: 12

9/12/12 4:06:49 PM#171

I like how some people find GW2 quest system boring but thinks killing 10 wolves than 10 ravenous wolves than 20 ravenous wolves of awesomeness than gather 10 wolves' tails by killing 25 wolves, than gather 15 wolves' claws by killing 30 ravenous wolves a superb quest design.

Oh and more varied too!

  Timzilla

Novice Member

Joined: 10/11/04
Posts: 442

9/12/12 8:14:31 PM#172

Where did you get the impression that these quest designs were new? Granted they are dumbed down a bunch so you don't have to click/chat with an npc or remember what it is you were supposed to be doing, but they're still the same old kill x for y quests that we've had all along. I think it was Warhammer Online that introduced the public questing concept, so who's copying who?

  sbrite10

Novice Member

Joined: 4/08/12
Posts: 73

9/12/12 10:53:37 PM#173
Originally posted by Misaris

Blizzard will teach the industry what *real* innovation means. With Titan I´m pretty sure they come up with more than yellow circles and a "dynamic" quest log.

No need to copy anything from GW2 (please, no cow feeding Blizzard.. please).

Further *real* innovation, look at World of Darkness and TSW

Yeah we see how well TSW is doing and World Of Darkness isnt even out so thats really a silly add.GW2 has great questing structure.Besides this whole poll is silly.Who cares if WOW copies it besides the fact its a bit late in WOW's life cycel to make such a drastic change no matter how stale WOW has become.

  sbrite10

Novice Member

Joined: 4/08/12
Posts: 73

9/12/12 10:56:44 PM#174
Originally posted by Timzilla

Where did you get the impression that these quest designs were new? Granted they are dumbed down a bunch so you don't have to click/chat with an npc or remember what it is you were supposed to be doing, but they're still the same old kill x for y quests that we've had all along. I think it was Warhammer Online that introduced the public questing concept, so who's copying who?

Maybe so but not even remotely to the extent of WOW.You can end up chain killing quests to kill a hundred wolves and collect 150 Tails.GW2 doesnt have any such thing and usually the "quests" push along the local sotryline.Not always but usually.Copying a game mechanic is how WOW got to where it is.Efvery mechaninc in that game is copied form other MMO's but no one complains about that do they?

 

  sbrite10

Novice Member

Joined: 4/08/12
Posts: 73

9/12/12 11:01:52 PM#175
Originally posted by rojo6934
im not waiting for Titan because i dont even know any info on that , so if BLizz ever copies ANET's questing system i hope its for WoW. However, if they do that then the 2 games i want to play becomes more similar and i would not have a reason to play one of them. Keep my 2 games of choice different enough so i can play both. No copying please.

No body does but Blizzard but Fanbois of blizzard all hope its the next coming of the MMO.It wont be.Subscription MMO's are all but done for me.I used to love WOW  and honestly dont hate it.Its just old and worn out for me.GW2 is a very Solid game with a ton of content to offer and its BTP.People who dont like it are missing out but thats there perogative.No one in the world can make someone like something if they dont want to.Its pointless to to try.

  daltanious

Elite Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1939

9/13/12 2:20:06 AM#176
Originally posted by Deathenger

Also, taking bets that Titan will surely be without quest hubs now thanks to GW2.

 

Not sure what is wrong with quest hubs for pve. And what GW2 (and before him Rift) is offering is also just a QUEST HUB. Events usually happen at predetermined places (and possibly times), they are little more scattered through landscape ... not really something appealing. I prefer by large measure classical quest hubs. Many require a lot of people at once and this will suffer same fate after a while as Rift with rift invasions etc etc.

  xpiher

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/22/08
Posts: 3305

9/13/12 3:35:27 AM#177


Originally posted by fahadjafar

Originally posted by xpiher  

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by fahadjafar

Originally posted by Nikkita

Originally posted by xpiher

What gear grind?  This grind? http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/59361-what-ever-happened-to-horizontal-progression/ http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/363676/page/1 There are tier levels on armor so even though these tiers are not directly related to dugeons there is still a horizontal progression for those who want better armor. The only difference is that 'dungeon grind for armor' is gone and you won't have to do tier 1, tier 2 and so on versions of dungeons.
i wonder how much iq a gamer has these days. unless the developers right with bold letter like this : "TIER 1 DRAGON KILLER ROCK SMASHER HEADGEAR OF VAGRANT MORON"  they don't realize that is a different level of item than the common item. you think that players would realize what is unique, what is legendary just by looking at an item but no, the devs actually have to sepll it out for them. and then  they say " what gear grind?". indeed we live in a dark age. the end is nigh my friends.
  No. I know there is tierd gear. Its just not necessary since you can get the same gear, in terms of stats, from crafted gear. 
  To further prove my point Originally posted by gaeanprayer Originally posted by littleXuro To obtain 1 mere set of all available dungeon sets, you need to run explorable mode 60+ times atleast. Assuming you want to obtain several sets to have unique looks for all your characters, you have to do a few hundred runs, all lasting 2+ hours on average. Last time I remember, ArenaNet said you would get a reward each run to prevent this kind of grind. Words cannot describe how dissappointed I am, waited 4 years for it and again it's just another grind if I want to build unique characters.   Anyone else feels the same?
No. It's a grind for things you don't need. You can get golds and epics outside of the dungeons through events (I got an epic focus from killing Tequatl) and crafting. Those dungeon items are for people that enjoy that kind of thing. If that's not you, then it's not for you, ignore it. You can't say you want to participate in all of the content of the game then get upset when some of the content of the game isn't what you wanted, either make the concession to try it anyway or pass up on it. Like I did :D I have no intention of bothering with that gear myself. It's pretty, but frankly so are the Tier 1-3 cultural armors, and those can be bought with gold.
  Furthermore  The items displayed here are max stat wise. Notice the listing of 501 individual sales? Prices are no where near grindy. This doesn't include exotics that can be bought for gold from different vendors Again, no real grind.  
so you don't have to grind for crafting material? and doing the same event again and again for one epic gear doesn't look like grind to you? pfftl!! why am i even writing here?
 

Crafting materials come easier than any WoW piece of raid armor (when they were first introduced). But that wasn't the point. The point was you can get a full set of tailored exotics (highest stat armor in the game) for a low amount of gold from the AH. You cannot do that in most other themepark games. When you are 80, you should have enough to be fully decked out in exotics. Furthermore, exotics drop from things like Jump puzzles, zone completions, boss chest, etc. The grind people complain about isn't there if they would actually take the time to look for alternative sources of gear besides vendor, cultural, and dungeon sets (which you grind for the looks)

Please research for the love of god


Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by Nikkita

Originally posted by xpiher Never because a lot of people are actually complaining about not having quest hubs. So billzard will keep them to keep that market share. Personally I hate quest hubs that send you to next one ect ect. Its boring. I saw someone mention TSW as innovative... not really. Adding in Mist style puzzles and making your game more like a single player RPG doesn't innovate.   

Originally posted by Tardcore How long before MoP sales are picking little peices of GW2 sales out of its gigantic teeth? Oh yeah, 14 more days.
Sorry, but WoW and GW1 were both similarilly successful when released. If anything, the only thing WoW can do is go down because they've already completely expanded their market share. If anything, GW2 is even more casual friendly than WoW is now simply due to the fact that it is F2P. Don't expect WoW to take away anyone from GW2 who isn't playing the game as a filler (which is what most people do between WoW expacs).  
Funny because i keep reading how so many are playing GW2 as a  filler due to its B2P model.
Yes, many are. But typically speaking, when WoW players look for a filler MMO, it doesn't produce 1million + in sales.  Granted, some people playing GW2 wil leave when PS2 comes out. 
AOC sold 1M boxes, Warhammer almost did also.   Hype does not equal longevity.   AOC even sold 1M boxes knowing there was a subscription after it.   And that, really, has been one of the biggest selling points of GW2, no subs price.   If you put it in that persepective, GW2 really didn´t do that well.  It barely outsold AOC while advertising B2P.
AoC also made funcom 2million in profit and was hyped way more than GW2. But my point was that if you look at both of those games, they maintained enough population to warrent continued development (although less servers) despite the fact that both games UNDEVELIVED on all promises. GW2, while many here are saying the game is "meh" has develivered nearly everything they said they would and with quality. 


Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher

  zaylin

Novice Member

Joined: 4/11/06
Posts: 793

9/13/12 1:04:35 PM#178
Originally posted by Deathenger
Originally posted by QuicklyScott
oh god, I hope never.  The questing is the worst part of GW2 :/

Care to explain?

the freedom to do what you want? not stuck to quest A1-A12 to complete a quest chain to get full Xp, Down Leveling a character to keep all areas relevant. I get lost on what I want to do some times because I was so use to going to hubs to pick up the 10 quest go out and complet them then LEAD me to the next area. but not every one likes cream with there coffe,so to speak.

  sbrite10

Novice Member

Joined: 4/08/12
Posts: 73

9/13/12 1:36:18 PM#179
Originally posted by zaylin
Originally posted by Deathenger
Originally posted by QuicklyScott
oh god, I hope never.  The questing is the worst part of GW2 :/

Care to explain?

the freedom to do what you want? not stuck to quest A1-A12 to complete a quest chain to get full Xp, Down Leveling a character to keep all areas relevant. I get lost on what I want to do some times because I was so use to going to hubs to pick up the 10 quest go out and complet them then LEAD me to the next area. but not every one likes cream with there coffe,so to speak.

Totaly agree with you on this.No need for a quest log or quest tracking even though technically itys tracked on scree its only tracked when your in the relevant area.Makes questiong almost completely transparent.Hell you jump into a DE and end up finishing a heart "Quest" without even trying sometimes.This all leads to you having more time to explore the game world which by the way is awsome looking.I realize that alot of this is subjective but I think people get set into and Idea and a certain amount of stubborness wont let them see the forest for the trees.Thats fine too.Its the nature of games and the internet.I cant honestly say that I havent fallen victim to my own stubborness either but to "me" this game rocks and constitutes evrything I like and want in an MMO.

 

 

 

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