WOW,  I think this guy is trying hard to get hired by anet and show some anger at the place that dumped him.

1.  Wow did not invent quest hubs.  AC among others were well before WOW..   Also, almost all single player RPGs had similar ´hubs´ were you went to pick up quests.

2.  Why is getting a quest from an NPC such a bad thing?   For most of us... the RP is a big part of MMORPG.  Yes, it is definitely convinient to not have go find an NPC to give you the quest to retrieve her stolen good.... but does it really makes sense that the UI just tells you ´hey, this person you never met wants you to retrieve stuff stolen by these guys you also never met´.   To me, most autoquest (hearts) seem way too artificial.  I would much rather happen upon a farm, talk to the owner, find out there is a problem, get directions to the bad guys etc...  you know.. RP

Just another silly article by someone who hates wow bragging up anything from the ´new´ game that is different than WOW.  Does anyone really think ´hearts´ are that significantly different than  !!!!s.    The writer laughs at the !s over NPCs heads, but then say how great it is that there are hearts on the map....  really?  lol

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Krytycal

Does the delivery method really matter that much? A boring quest is still a boring quest regardless of wether you have to click on an NPC to get it or if it atuomatically activates when you walk within an area. I didn't find GW2's questing to be all that innovative because at the end of the day you're still killing 10 rats and collecting their tails.

If anything, TSW took the gold for this year's innovative questing. Decyphering morse code? Yes please. Although I can see how that can turn off a lot of player considering the average attention span now days.

I think the delivery method matters very much.  You're mixing up quest content and the delivery method.  Boring content (eg: kill 10 rats) versus complex content (eg: deciphering a code) is different from how those are delivered (talk the the npc with the bang over their head versus contributing to the quest automatically).

One key aspect that GW2 has done differently in the deliver method is provide more than one path to completion.  You can choose to kill rats until the progress bar has filled or you can choose to defend an npc or you can choose to disarm traps in the area or you can choose to do a combination of those tasks.

Another key difference is that in quest hubs there are npcs with the exclamation mark that you talk to, go out and do the deeds for, and ultimately return to them (or another down the road at a new hub) for a reward.  With GW2 you only need to be in the area to contribute to that completion.  You typically don't need to talk to an NPC in order to contribute, but talking to an NPC might open up other completion options or provide other insights along with role play and story.

I'm not mixing up quest content and delivery method. I clearly stated that I think the content is more important than the delivery. I don't care if a book automatically downloads and plays as an audiobook when I turn turn on my kindle or if I have to go to the bookstore and buy the paperback version. As long as the book is good, the delivery method makes no difference. A boring book is still a boring book even if Jesus himself reads it to you before bedtime.

GW2 might have changed the delivery method, but the quests are still the same bland and boring kill 10 bandits, collect rat tails and water plants. I never thought quests in MMORPG were bad because you had to talk to some guy to get the background, I think they are bad because 80% of them have you do mundane, mindless tasks.

If anything, I think TSW is the game we should all be looking up to in terms of innovating the questing system. It's too bad people are getting too caught up on the wether you need to click on an exclamation mark or not to realize the real issue behind quests in MMORPGs.

Originally posted by Reas43
You know. This website would garner more hits if it just dropped the facade and renamed itself GW2MRPG.com your site for all things good and positive about GW2, dissenting editorial pieces will not be harbored!

 Yawn.

Ha i think some poeple are jumping the gun with the "quest hubs are dead" statements and that doesn't even adrress the fact it's still the same old same old, you just don't have to click on a npc is all.

This is the one honest to god evolution that I want to thank GW2 for.

I'm glad it brought back Dark Age of Camelot's RvR, even if in a slightly worse state.

But getting rid of quest hubs is a good step back to what made MMOs good, before WoW ruined things for a long long time.

Originally posted by Azrile

 

2.  Why is getting a quest from an NPC such a bad thing?   For most of us... the RP is a big part of MMORPG.  Yes, it is definitely convinient to not have go find an NPC to give you the quest to retrieve her stolen good.... but does it really makes sense that the UI just tells you ´hey, this person you never met wants you to retrieve stuff stolen by these guys you also never met´.   To me, most autoquest (hearts) seem way too artificial.  I would much rather happen upon a farm, talk to the owner, find out there is a problem, get directions to the bad guys etc...  you know.. RP

Isn't this setup better for RPing? In GW2, the "problem" that the farmer is having does not wait for you to talk to the farmer in order to happen. As a matter of fact, in most cases of other MMOs, they don't really happen. You just get a description of their plight and off you go to kill them or collect loot., while they're wandering in the open. 

You can still talk to the hearts people in GW2 and they will give you a clearer background of what's going on. I actually prefer this for RPing.

Should follow an article like that with an obligatory "/end sarcasm", just so we know you're not completely full of it.

GW2 is nothing but quest hubs along it's PvE leveling rails. They're marked prominantly on the map with a heart outline for the ones you haven't completed, and by solid hearts for the ones you have. The only differences between them and previous games hubs is that you can mouse over these on the map to see the hubs level, and you don't have to chat with an npc to accept the handfull of quests that each hub offers.

Welcome to MMORPG.Com!

so quest hubs are dead huh?

great .. super .. except all gw2 delivers for it's removal of quest hubs is the exact same linear gameplay we have seen since .. forever.

so the zone gives you a quest to kill 10 centaurs instead of an NPC. Is this really what passes for revolutionary around here?

Originally posted by Krytycal

... 

GW2 might have changed the delivery method, but the quests are still the same bland and boring kill 10 bandits, collect rat tails and water plants. I never thought quests in MMORPG were bad because you had to talk to some guy to get the background, I think they are bad because 80% of them have you do mundane, mindless tasks.

 

If anything, I think TSW is the game we should all be looking up to in terms of innovating the questing system. It's too bad people are getting too caught up on the wether you need to click on an exclamation mark or not to realize the real issue behind quests in MMORPGs.

Agree totally!

The one good thing that GW2 has done is the ability to satisfy the completion criteria of these boring quests by different methods - ag collect stuff vs kill stuff, or whatever combination you choose.  But they are still boring quests.  To make it worse, the NPC interaction provides the context of the required actions, the story, and this is the bit they have removed.  Here, at most, there is a minimal amount of background chatter, and this does not provide any level of engagement (for me).

quest 

1. a search or pursuit made in order to find or obtain something.

2. an adventurous expedition, as by knights in medieval romances.

3. those engaged in such an expedition.

4. Obs. a jury of inquest.

5. (v.i.)to search; seek.

6. to go on a quest.

7. (v.t.)to search or seek for; pursue

errand

1. a short trip to accomplish a specific purpose, as to buy or deliver something or to convey a message, often for someone else.

2. the purpose of such a trip.

3. a special mission entrusted to a messenger; commission.

So, which one is GW2 full of?

Is what we doing in GW2 the stuff of fantasy legends? The stuff grade schoolers daze out the window during class daydreaming about doing. The stuff they make movies about?

Or is it more like the stuff people get paid minimum wage to do?

Seriosuly ANET (and everyone else for that matter) Stop assigning the word Quest to manual labor. Get a clue. 

If I don't want to do it in real life, Why the hell do I want to pay you so I can pretend to do it in my entertainment time?

Great article because what a lot of people here forget... (especially at the bottom)....

Is that the demographic is changing/growing/evolving in MMO's. What was sparked from pop-cult followings like D&D to Mogs, is its now an international thing involving 10's of millions of people and growing crossing several genres.  It's a very dynamic place now.

The hard core always post. And nothing new will ever be good enough. EQ2 and WoW have been out for what a decade? Several expansions each. No newly released game will never match that.

But again given what I've seen of GW2 since pre-launch, I'm ultra impressed. Actually beyond that, I was a HC raider in EQ2 for the last year - which after playing the game casually since launch; HC since my new girlfriend joined in a couple years ago, is all you could get to be any challenge, it became a job and trust me if you have my job like mine or period i suspect, a second one is not where you want to spend your off time. And I only tried it because it was gifted to me for my 40th bday...

I believe most of the players (non-foreign gold farmers aside - err no bias intended) are those people who have live's, families, jobs, and other responsibilities. For these gamers it's becoming our only way to have a social life almost... But we're busy have fun as can escape and remain the silent majority.

Things I've enjoyed the most in GW2 are basically just the game... "playing". They did the best job I've personally ever seen in any game at blending their talented conceptual art staff into the actual game itself, from a personal aspect this blows me away. From all aspects i think this is a beautiful game, and finally enjoyable to log into for the first time in a long time. I think this helps the immersion factor, at least for me since UO.

I've been challenged at every step, never felt a rush to grind something, enjoyed the ride. I finally did my first true group experience outside of PVP (one of my favorite aspects of MMO), and the level of effort was amazing, despite hints from a great experienced tank type, always spontaneous, and more exhilarating than anything I've personally experienced in a long time - and no one jumping on anyone because a "script" went bad, and yes we died many times it was awesome!

Sure it's not gonna be that hot south american model from Victoria's Secret that you will never get to taste or whatever fantasy we cook up in our minds, but for me your average guy, it's been cool, and my posts are always pretty balanced, I'm extremely critical if I think it will help.

But I also especially appreciate your openness to high-five what many others would consider a rival or competitor.  Being in a similar field in this day and age, too many seem to be more offensive towards successful peers instead of just saying yeah that's cool! After all if you can't accept it, you will never grow yourself ;-)

Cita

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

 

quest 

1. a search or pursuit made in order to find or obtain something.

2. an adventurous expedition, as by knights in medieval romances.

3. those engaged in such an expedition.

4. Obs. a jury of inquest.

5. (v.i.)to search; seek.

6. to go on a quest.

7. (v.t.)to search or seek for; pursue

 

errand

1. a short trip to accomplish a specific purpose, as to buy or deliver something or to convey a message, often for someone else.

2. the purpose of such a trip.

3. a special mission entrusted to a messenger; commission.

 

So, which one is GW2 full of?

Is what we doing in GW2 the stuff of fantasy legends? The stuff grade schoolers daze out the window during class daydreaming about doing. The stuff they make movies about?

Or is it more like the stuff people get paid minimum wage to do?

 

Seriosuly ANET (and everyone else for that matter) Stop assigning the word Quest to manual labor. Get a clue. 

If I don't want to do it in real life, Why the hell do I want to pay you so I can pretend to do it in my entertainment time?

 

What are you asking for, exactly? That a game should have a spearate list for tasks labeled as "Quest", and "Errands"? Or are you asking for a RPG filled with nothing but heroicness and still maintain the length of RPGs with filler "quests"?

You can always take the route that will make you feel heroic, like killing the worms instead of feeding the cows.

Original EQ had quests.  You had to talk to NPCs, figure out what they were looking for and go from there.  Quite a few big gaming sites were originally gathering places for people to discuss EQ's quests and how to solve them.

It was pretty basic, you could hand items to NPCs or combine items in containers to make something else.  There was always the chance the NPC would not give you the item back so you had to think your way through the quests.

Plus, they spawned all levels and all zones, unlike F2P MMOs where you have to have quest hubs because that is the way the business model works in conjunction with the game.

EQ had some pretty memorable quest lines like the Soulfire or the Burning Rapier quest, the monk headband quest which evolved into the epic weapon quest.

In GW2 you can manipulate the world but you cannot manipulate in-game items.  You can do little things like pick up a garden hoe and swing it, or eat a mushroom and grow twice your size, or get turned into a pig and have different buttons to press....but none of it really matters because the quests are just basic tasks.

Really, it's not that hard to come up with interesting EQ-esque quests and integrate them into any modern MMO....but because most of the are F2P and divided up into zone chunks for sale you dont get the same quality product in the end.

I just find it humorous how many of you want to act like you know so much more about questing than one of the people who designed the system that so many of you have been complaining about for years. Then when a game comes out that does something different, and people talk about it as being different you immediately dismiss it.

The criteria that is come up with is comepletely ludacris sometimes. "This online game is just like anything else out there, you log in, play, then log out, can't a company come up with anything original?"

Thats what some of the people here sound like. GW2 did come up with a new way to deal with questing. That still means you go out and do stuff, for other NPC's. Alot of people get "it" that a MMO requires certain things, like objectives, and conflict. Some of you though, you think that a new game should be designed without the elements that make it a game, and wonder why no one has done it yet. Then, when someone comes on this site and shares some of their actual insights from experience in the industry, you have the nerve to tell them they are not educated on subject matter that they designed.

Its like telling Steve Jobs what the iPhone can do, if he were still alive, or explaining the female form to Larry Flint. You guys have no idea how dumb you sound sometimes.

I admit i kept asking my wife about the lack of quests beyond your story line (What am i doing wrong, where are they?!!!)... I was in the 20s before I even noticed that days into the game and that I had already done probably 100 of them under a different guise. honestly refreshing at least for me.  They just exist. Yes they are repeatable, but if you keep moving and exploring, the world continues to grow around you, and they flow so well you can seem to end up miles from where you began w/out even knowing where you are. It's really bad if you're OCHD! ack! Not good!