random spvp =/= tournament

in tournament you play with players you know you can modify your "role" to what you decide with other members of the team

i myself playing more tanky version of the ranger i can 2vs1 and hold long enough till my other mates finish thier job elsewhere and come to the rescue (mean i distract 2 of the enemy and they wasting time trying to kill me when other of my team fighting 4vs3 and capping points)

playing a support role in random spvp is pointless becouse all other members of your team just dont know how they can take advantage of your support, they dont know how to use combos or finishers

Originally posted by Random_mage

The sPvP (aka quake with spells) is heavily slanted towards dps classes, classes with AOE heals are pointless.  

Now, before you pop on here and say "but my (insert support class here) owns in pvp"

good for you, statistics say otherwise.   I have seen very well played engineers (1) that did well, however, that is a rarity.

the typcial make up for sPvP is: Theif x 3, Warrior x2 mesmer 1/2 elementalist 1, ranger 1, necro 1 (give or take).  This is ridiculous.   Support classes are next to useless.  Yes, they hold points, however  they have terrible offense, and what typically ends up happening is it's a 2 v1 scenario and the support class dies.  They also don't hold points very well because of the lack of offense.  They are good at buying maybe 20 seconds.. MAYBE.  No, keep in mind this is just for PUGs.  Things will be different in actual pvp, I'm sure. I will not be playing in that actual pvp.

 

Also, I quit swotor due to the constant knockdowns, knockbacks, stuns, ETC... sPvP is no different.   Even with traits/utility skills that get you out of these things.. it does not matter.

 

However, support classes are excellent in WvWvW.. when  you can get in them. I played for 2 hours the other day.. and no pop. Which leaves my support class (trying to support in PvP) nothing more than a shield popper... 

 

In a comparison with  other Bg type maps, I give gw2 a ranking of just above SWTOR.  Every map is the same with different names for capture points.

 

also, some abilities need to be nerfed or the resource that they use needs to be adjust to prevent constant spamming (who's looking at you, heart seeker!)

Were you born yesterday PvP in every game in the past to now has always been a joke and thats the joke.

Due to the simple fact that I am unable to carry over my equipment and look from PvE, I will never play any other PvP than WvWvW.

Luckily, it's an entirely separate game for the most part, with its own leveling system and whatnot, so I don't have to worry about it.

Originally posted by Channce

Originally posted by vort3x
If you can't beat a thief spaming heartseeker you just suck and should learn to play.

lol, what a dumb thing to say.

Its actually quite true, well the part about learning to play. heatseeker thiefs are quite easy to deal with.

Originally posted by Random_mage

The sPvP (aka quake with spells) is heavily slanted towards dps classes, classes with AOE heals are pointless.  

Now, before you pop on here and say "but my (insert support class here) owns in pvp"

good for you, statistics say otherwise.   I have seen very well played engineers (1) that did well, however, that is a rarity.

the typcial make up for sPvP is: Theif x 3, Warrior x2 mesmer 1/2 elementalist 1, ranger 1, necro 1 (give or take).  This is ridiculous.   Support classes are next to useless. 

With that you just pointed how silly your claim is.

You just said it yourself, There are players that do manage it on those classes and If a player is not good enough on any of those classes then they dont score. ..yeah duh

I have seen players domintate matches on those 'support' classes, conclusion :

It is not the class that is the issue its the bad players that cant handle them.

I can see why so many roll a warrior or a heartseeker build thief since i tried them out after seeing how many players own so much on them.

Warrior:  literally faceroll, really you can just press a bunch of skills and win. (note: Some players do know how to play the warrior very well withouth facerolling)

Thief heartseeker build: 2-2-2-2 teleport/heal>stealh  Win....thats it

The warrior is the most ridiculously easy one tho. I made one to level 3 and did not know a thing about it or its skills and took it into spvp without practising on the dummies or the NPC's. I did this on purpose because i already had the suspicion that it was pure faceroll and i was dominating in my first ever match with it and ended up with the top player bonuses even though i still hadn't had a clue about the skills.

These facerollers think they are 'teh awesomez' until i come at them with my puny necro ...they lol.....and then i wipe the floor with them and run of to the next one. Sounds arrogant i know but i always stay away from these sort of classes in pvp and go for the more difficult to master ones. Done that for years in every mmo and practise does make perfect. The fact that i steamroll these type of players gives me the most satisfaction in PvP :3

Last night a warrior in my opossing team even dared to say in chat that Necro's are OP because i kept wiping the floor with him, (i guess he was a bit surprised by it ) Along with a string of other insults and to boot he even 'boosted' how he made that warrior only 2 hours ago and how he was owning everyone else already and so there fore Necro's must be OP.

I get a lot of hate from them in /M during matches and i love to stir it up :)

Again Bad players not bad classes. The fact that there are players that do handle the hard to master classes shows exactly that and i have seen all these so called 'support' classes dominate. Mesmers engineers and elementalists alike. As long as the player controls his/her class.

(imo faceroll classes are in there on purpose  for bawd players  to make sure everyone wants to play)

Originally posted by Castillle

I thought players were bad in Mobas...These guys i get teamed with take the cake.

People run up to groups 1 by 1, no one communicates eeven if i try, people leave and join the match so often, etc --.-

Pretty much. Outside of premades/tournaments that is.

You are all running off the conclusion that skills (heart seeker) own in 1v1 and as such are posting comments to further your points.  However, I'm speaking of the chaos of battle, with more than 1 opponent and group v group.  The fact that the class only needs to spam 1 skill to kill multiply people (not at the same time).  The other day, I took 18k damage from heart seeker.  18k. 1 skill, spammed 15 times.. 

but that's not the point.  What I'm trying to get it is the imbalance of classes in sPvP.  Specific professions are dominating in NUMBERS, not skill.  Another match, when I was playing my engineer (very good class, btw) we had 9 warriors 4 theives 1 mesmer, 1 engineer, 1 ranger...  Yes, there are bad players and good players, that's a given, but something needs to be addressed with class balance.  Clearly, there is a problem.

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by Channce

Originally posted by vort3x
If you can't beat a thief spaming heartseeker you just suck and should learn to play.

lol, what a dumb thing to say.

Its actually quite true, well the part about learning to play. heatseeker thiefs are quite easy to deal with.

Not really actually... as I've played a thief in PvP and use heartseeker, double strike and cloak and dagger regularly... its rare that I lose - to any class...  couple that with dual pistols in the event I do need to kite,  its rare that I'm not on the top of the charts.

Heartseeker is one of the highest burst moves you'll find on any class.. and support classes and other thieves are especially vulnerable, though not useless.  My main is a mesmer...  while I don't always get the most points due to kills, I don't die very often either.

In truth though sPvP is kind of a joke...  people come and go as they please,  teams are always off balance, if you try and come in with a friend or two you aren't always on the same team...  the most organized you see is everyone grouping together and running from point to point.    As far as structured PvP went,  there are a lot of other games that did a lot more for me in terms of enjoyment.

sPvP is designed for Tournament "mode" to be everything. Everything.

It's not supposed to be like WoW battleground where you hop into a game and hope to be matched with decent people.

sPvP "normal" mode is practice, practice, and more practice.

Tournament mode is like Arena in WoW - you better be playing with a coordinated team or you might as well not even try.

There is no WoW BG equivalent in GW2 - unlike TOR/TSW etc. which have WoW BG modes.

If you spend all your time in sPvP joing solo into random matches in normal mode, you are just in newbie practice mode.

This isn't WoW, these aren't BG's, it's 10,000x more like Arena in WoW - build a team, go into tournament mode.

I thought this was obvious... but so many complainers seem to be equating sPvP to BG's which it is not and was never supposed to be.

The closest thing in GW2 to BGs is only a viable comparison when compared to the old AV matches in Vanilla WoW that would last hours/days - but even that is stretching it and comparing to something that hasn't existed in WoW for half a decade.

Originally posted by BadSpock

sPvP is designed for Tournament "mode" to be everything. Everything.

It's not supposed to be like WoW battleground where you hop into a game and hope to be matched with decent people.

sPvP "normal" mode is practice, practice, and more practice.

Tournament mode is like Arena in WoW - you better be playing with a coordinated team or you might as well not even try.

 

There is no WoW BG equivalent in GW2 - unlike TOR/TSW etc. which have WoW BG modes.

If you spend all your time in sPvP joing solo into random matches in normal mode, you are just in newbie practice mode.

This isn't WoW, these aren't BG's, it's 10,000x more like Arena in WoW - build a team, go into tournament mode.

 

I thought this was obvious... but so many complainers seem to be equating sPvP to BG's which it is not and was never supposed to be.

The problem is that a lot of people don't have teams to join with.. and what would the purpose be if most of the players in "newbie practice mode" come and go and you never have a chance to play a game with any substance?   Its a poor system for "practice", especially since when you team up with anyone and queue, half the time you aren't even on the same team.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by Channce

Originally posted by vort3x
If you can't beat a thief spaming heartseeker you just suck and should learn to play.

lol, what a dumb thing to say.

Its actually quite true, well the part about learning to play. heatseeker thiefs are quite easy to deal with.

Not really actually... as I've played a thief in PvP and use heartseeker, double strike and cloak and dagger regularly... its rare that I lose - to any class...  couple that with dual pistols in the event I do need to kite,  its rare that I'm not on the top of the charts.

 

Heartseeker is one of the highest burst moves you'll find on any class.. and support classes and other thieves are especially vulnerable, though not useless.  My main is a mesmer...  while I don't always get the most points due to kills, I don't die very often either.

 

In truth though sPvP is kind of a joke...  people come and go as they please,  teams are always off balance, if you try and come in with a friend or two you aren't always on the same team...  the most organized you see is everyone grouping together and running from point to point.    As far as structured PvP went,  there are a lot of other games that did a lot more for me in terms of enjoyment.

The fact that I can do it basically debunks his whole point.  Handleing heartseeker thiefs is actually quite easy, if you know what you are doing and there are MANY ways. Especially since they are very fragile and can be taken down just as easy. In tourneys they are handle with even more. Just to prove a point watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4xPV5jw2VI&list=PL51BE336EE539271B&index=1&feature=plcp

Its pretty easy to expect the thiefs to come and try to heartseeker your butt, just dodge twice is one simple way to prevent it. You can cc them before they even open up or you can just use one of the MANY evade/defensive abilities in the game.

Originally posted by BadSpock

sPvP is designed for Tournament "mode" to be everything. Everything.

It's not supposed to be like WoW battleground where you hop into a game and hope to be matched with decent people.

sPvP "normal" mode is practice, practice, and more practice.

Tournament mode is like Arena in WoW - you better be playing with a coordinated team or you might as well not even try.

 

There is no WoW BG equivalent in GW2 - unlike TOR/TSW etc. which have WoW BG modes.

If you spend all your time in sPvP joing solo into random matches in normal mode, you are just in newbie practice mode.

This isn't WoW, these aren't BG's, it's 10,000x more like Arena in WoW - build a team, go into tournament mode.

 

I thought this was obvious... but so many complainers seem to be equating sPvP to BG's which it is not and was never supposed to be.

The closest thing in GW2 to BGs is only a viable comparison when compared to the old AV matches in Vanilla WoW that would last hours/days - but even that is stretching it and comparing to something that hasn't existed in WoW for half a decade.

EXACTLY, regular spvp is mainly for practice. Getting to try out new builds and getting used to them. The good spvp happens in the tourneys.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by BadSpock

sPvP is designed for Tournament "mode" to be everything. Everything.

It's not supposed to be like WoW battleground where you hop into a game and hope to be matched with decent people.

sPvP "normal" mode is practice, practice, and more practice.

Tournament mode is like Arena in WoW - you better be playing with a coordinated team or you might as well not even try.

There is no WoW BG equivalent in GW2 - unlike TOR/TSW etc. which have WoW BG modes.

If you spend all your time in sPvP joing solo into random matches in normal mode, you are just in newbie practice mode.

This isn't WoW, these aren't BG's, it's 10,000x more like Arena in WoW - build a team, go into tournament mode.

I thought this was obvious... but so many complainers seem to be equating sPvP to BG's which it is not and was never supposed to be.

The problem is that a lot of people don't have teams to join with.. and what would the purpose be if most of the players in "newbie practice mode" come and go and you never have a chance to play a game with any substance?   Its a poor system for "practice", especially since when you team up with anyone and queue, half the time you aren't even on the same team.

The team queue issue is indeed a barrier to playing practice mode w/ friends. That needs to be addressed, for sure.

They should probably also institute some form of a time delay/penalty for hopping in/out of matches too quickly to foster more participation to keep teams balanced.

But my point still stands, and it may be unfortunate but it's true - there are no WoW-BG-like PvP options in GW2, so if that is what you are looking for, you will probably have to look else where.

I myself always enjoyed BG's in WoW, but I never liked the gear treadmill and I hated world PvP in WoW because level > everything.

GW2 offers world PvP (kind of) and Arena-mode style sPvP. Lots of BG fans are going to be disappointed.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by BadSpock

sPvP is designed for Tournament "mode" to be everything. Everything.

It's not supposed to be like WoW battleground where you hop into a game and hope to be matched with decent people.

sPvP "normal" mode is practice, practice, and more practice.

Tournament mode is like Arena in WoW - you better be playing with a coordinated team or you might as well not even try.

 

There is no WoW BG equivalent in GW2 - unlike TOR/TSW etc. which have WoW BG modes.

If you spend all your time in sPvP joing solo into random matches in normal mode, you are just in newbie practice mode.

This isn't WoW, these aren't BG's, it's 10,000x more like Arena in WoW - build a team, go into tournament mode.

 

I thought this was obvious... but so many complainers seem to be equating sPvP to BG's which it is not and was never supposed to be.

 

The problem is that a lot of people don't have teams to join with.. and what would the purpose be if most of the players in "newbie practice mode" come and go and you never have a chance to play a game with any substance?   Its a poor system for "practice", especially since when you team up with anyone and queue, half the time you aren't even on the same team.

you can do tourneys with no teams. It will find a team for you. The difference in tourneys is that its 5v5 and you will always find good teams to go against and with you.

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by Channce

Originally posted by vort3x
If you can't beat a thief spaming heartseeker you just suck and should learn to play.

lol, what a dumb thing to say.

Its actually quite true, well the part about learning to play. heatseeker thiefs are quite easy to deal with.

Not really actually... as I've played a thief in PvP and use heartseeker, double strike and cloak and dagger regularly... its rare that I lose - to any class...  couple that with dual pistols in the event I do need to kite,  its rare that I'm not on the top of the charts.

 

Heartseeker is one of the highest burst moves you'll find on any class.. and support classes and other thieves are especially vulnerable, though not useless.  My main is a mesmer...  while I don't always get the most points due to kills, I don't die very often either.

 

In truth though sPvP is kind of a joke...  people come and go as they please,  teams are always off balance, if you try and come in with a friend or two you aren't always on the same team...  the most organized you see is everyone grouping together and running from point to point.    As far as structured PvP went,  there are a lot of other games that did a lot more for me in terms of enjoyment.

The fact that I can do it basically debunks his whole point.  Handleing heartseeker thiefs is actually quite easy, if you know what you are doing and there are MANY ways. Especially since they are very fragile and can be taken down just as easy. In tourneys they are handle with even more. Just to prove a point watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4xPV5jw2VI&list=PL51BE336EE539271B&index=1&feature=plcp

Its pretty easy to expect the thiefs to come and try to heartseeker your butt, just dodge twice is one simple way to prevent it. You can cc them before they even open up or you can just use one of the MANY evade/defensive abilities in the game.

Thats in the event that you see them coming...  a simple shadowstep or stealthed thief is a completely different story, and not all open up with heartseeker either... If they are at full health I never do as it does more damage the lower the health they have.

Obviously you'll be able to kill thieves some of the time,  but lets not pretend that a heartseeker spammer doesn't kill you some of the time too,  and playing that way will net more kills with less skill then pretty much any other class.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by Channce

Originally posted by vort3x
If you can't beat a thief spaming heartseeker you just suck and should learn to play.

lol, what a dumb thing to say.

Its actually quite true, well the part about learning to play. heatseeker thiefs are quite easy to deal with.

Not really actually... as I've played a thief in PvP and use heartseeker, double strike and cloak and dagger regularly... its rare that I lose - to any class...  couple that with dual pistols in the event I do need to kite,  its rare that I'm not on the top of the charts.

 

Heartseeker is one of the highest burst moves you'll find on any class.. and support classes and other thieves are especially vulnerable, though not useless.  My main is a mesmer...  while I don't always get the most points due to kills, I don't die very often either.

 

In truth though sPvP is kind of a joke...  people come and go as they please,  teams are always off balance, if you try and come in with a friend or two you aren't always on the same team...  the most organized you see is everyone grouping together and running from point to point.    As far as structured PvP went,  there are a lot of other games that did a lot more for me in terms of enjoyment.

The fact that I can do it basically debunks his whole point.  Handleing heartseeker thiefs is actually quite easy, if you know what you are doing and there are MANY ways. Especially since they are very fragile and can be taken down just as easy. In tourneys they are handle with even more. Just to prove a point watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4xPV5jw2VI&list=PL51BE336EE539271B&index=1&feature=plcp

Its pretty easy to expect the thiefs to come and try to heartseeker your butt, just dodge twice is one simple way to prevent it. You can cc them before they even open up or you can just use one of the MANY evade/defensive abilities in the game.

Thats in the event that you see them coming...  a simple shadowstep or stealthed thief is a completely different story, and not all open up with heartseeker either... If they are at full health I never do as it does more damage the lower the health they have.

 

Obviously you'll be able to kill thieves some of the time,  but lets not pretend that a heartseeker spammer doesn't kill you some of the time too,  and playing that way will net more kills with less skill then pretty much any other class.

There are other ways, not just dodging. That is the simplest because they usually strike when there is a big group fight going on and they don't even bother to stealth. But there is a TON of cc abilities you can use coupled with many other defensive abilities as well.

Yes, you will be killed by a heartseeker thief. Just like Ill be killed by any other class, the point is they are more than stoppable just that with so many people pvping and not having a good idea yet of what they are doing they are vulnerable to those types of thiefs. But just like any cheese play its easily stopped when you know what you are doing. Its not like they are an unstoppable force that can't be dealt with....as a matter of fact I believe that in balanced play the Guardian is the most OP class right now.

Originally posted by auz10
Stunning revelation: support characters suck by themselves.

Haha +1.

Easily the most balanced PvP I have ever played in a MMO, even more so than GW1. If you pick a support spec (note how I didnt say class.... every class has support, dps and survivability specs) you obviously arent going to be a 1 vs 1 god, you can probably last a while against 2-3 players if you are good, but eventually you will die faster than your damage output will kill someone self healing. That is the whole point of support, you sacrifice some DPS to boost everyone elses, or offer everyone else more protection.

Support specs are the game changers in group combat, its about teamwork.