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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Feral Fanbois are hurting GW2 more than "Haters" ever could...

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158 posts found
  Thorbrand

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/04
Posts: 1217

9/12/12 10:09:18 AM#141

What is the purpose of this post?

Yes OP there are no dynamic events in GW2. Only one game ever had them or ever will have them. Not made in the last 10yrs either.

  truthhurts

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/14/12
Posts: 75

9/12/12 10:10:06 AM#142
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Fadedbomb

The issue at hand currently though is that almost no form of "positive criticism" is accepted on these forums anymore. The moment you point out one flaw you get attacked as a "hater" and "troll".

Another issue is that almost no form of "positive praise" is accepted on these forums anymore. The moment you point out something that you like about the game, you get attacked for being a "fanboi" or being "feral."

I haven't seen truly constructive / positive criticism on this site in a long, long time. It is one of "the" hardest things to do especially in the medium of text-only communication. It's no suprise it is so damned rare on MMORPG.com.

Even the people who THINK they are being constructive and not negative (sorry like you Faded) generally still come off as arrogant, negative, and combative simple by the fact that is how their text reads to many (even if it is completely unintentional.)

Colddog04 is 100% correct as well - the door swings both ways.

 

There was a thread last week where somone published a list of 11 things they disliked about GW2.  It had almost unanimous support.  And of course since the discussion was positive, the thread died rather quickly.

  Fadedbomb

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/19/06
Posts: 2149

 
OP  9/12/12 10:10:45 AM#143
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Only people not interested in playing a game in the first place will care about fanboys or not.

It is also extremely easy to avoid fanboys - just avoid forums.

Like it is easy to avoid haters - just avoid forums.

Normal players don't go to forums.

 

And everything in software that ins't human input is scripted - it is the nature of the beast. Ascript can have more random variables or less random variables but still, unless there is a bug, the results are always predictable.

Normal gamers dont go to forums? Yeah because it is so abnormal to go to an internet forum to discuss your hobby 

Casual gamers might not go to a forum but that is not the same as normal.

Regarding the OP, I agree. Fanatical fanboyism who does everything to attack people with criticism to the game is one of the worst thing for evolving not only the game but also the genre.

I just don't understand how people can blatantly claim that forums don't affect a product. From my 12years of experience they most certainly can affect the overall "Morale" of a game, and can help to destabilize the product from the bottom up.

Additionally, the idea that only "Hardcore" players come on here is rediculous.

 

Also, Gaia_Hunter isn't a programmer or he'd know that scripts =/= dynamically generating programs.

The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  Soaapy

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/11
Posts: 115

9/12/12 10:11:41 AM#144
Originally posted by Fadedbomb

I don't know where these Feral Fanbois are coming from as I never had to deal with them this badly for even SWTOR. Quite frankly, I've been surprised to see all over these forums about how people are annoyed if not almost completely turned off by the rabid flaming of anything non-GW2, and how GW2 is being pushed to new heights of outlandish fanboism. It is REALLY pissing off normal GW2 fans, because when you rabidly fanboy all over GW2 you make the normal players whom are just trying to enjoy the game look bad, or at least that's how i've been reading they feel?

Now, I'll say this to put it out there. I'm not a "Fan" of GW2, but I did purchase it for $60, and do believe it is one of the best themeparks I've played. However, I know what GW2 is, and is not. So I won't go any further with it than that.

 

From my experience with previously overhyped titles I've had to deal with people calling me a "Hater" and an outright "Troll" because I said things like SWTOR being horribly linear, zero replayability, sub-par end-game, and a host of other straight-to-the-point statements. Ironically months later I see everything I was saying pre-release echoed throughout these forums.

 

Then, for GW2, I was flamed outright for calling "Dynamic Events" NOT "Dynamic" and more akin to static repeated branching SCRIPTED events. Not only was I flamed, but I experienced something I hadn't before with SWTOR. I was actually being contacted off this site by my personal email being asked to stop "Spouting nonsense you have no clue about" with regards to GW2 (I didn't even know my personal email was listed under my profile on here?).

 

Regardless, albeit longer than I originally wanted, my point is that you NEED to stop going crazy with this over-the-top fanboism. You're making the normal players who're just trying to enjoy GW2 for what it is, and you're hurting GW2 as a whole in the long term.

 

Please :(

 

lol what kind of world do you live in? perception is reality man. you worry about shit that shouldn't concern you. perhaps you might be happier with everything if you'd just concern yourself with shit that actually matters instead of what other people are saying. 

  Krytycal

Novice Member

Joined: 4/17/06
Posts: 527

9/12/12 10:13:07 AM#145

Blind adoration is just as destructive as blind negativity.

 

They are parts of a vicious cycle that feed and set each other off. The funny thing is, you can't have one without the other. Newtons Third Law of Motion, etc. Many around here may think I'm a hater, the truth is I don't particularly hate GW2, matter of fact I think it's a very good game. I wouldn't even be posting in this board if it weren't for the fact that everytime I check the frontpage there's is some GW2 thread full of exaggerated claims and sensationalism about how GW2 is killing this, or revolutionizing that. A subcouncious part of me wants to balance out those claims.

 

 

  Fadedbomb

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/19/06
Posts: 2149

 
OP  9/12/12 10:13:22 AM#146
Originally posted by Soaapy
Originally posted by Fadedbomb

I don't know where these Feral Fanbois are coming from as I never had to deal with them this badly for even SWTOR. Quite frankly, I've been surprised to see all over these forums about how people are annoyed if not almost completely turned off by the rabid flaming of anything non-GW2, and how GW2 is being pushed to new heights of outlandish fanboism. It is REALLY pissing off normal GW2 fans, because when you rabidly fanboy all over GW2 you make the normal players whom are just trying to enjoy the game look bad, or at least that's how i've been reading they feel?

Now, I'll say this to put it out there. I'm not a "Fan" of GW2, but I did purchase it for $60, and do believe it is one of the best themeparks I've played. However, I know what GW2 is, and is not. So I won't go any further with it than that.

 

From my experience with previously overhyped titles I've had to deal with people calling me a "Hater" and an outright "Troll" because I said things like SWTOR being horribly linear, zero replayability, sub-par end-game, and a host of other straight-to-the-point statements. Ironically months later I see everything I was saying pre-release echoed throughout these forums.

 

Then, for GW2, I was flamed outright for calling "Dynamic Events" NOT "Dynamic" and more akin to static repeated branching SCRIPTED events. Not only was I flamed, but I experienced something I hadn't before with SWTOR. I was actually being contacted off this site by my personal email being asked to stop "Spouting nonsense you have no clue about" with regards to GW2 (I didn't even know my personal email was listed under my profile on here?).

 

Regardless, albeit longer than I originally wanted, my point is that you NEED to stop going crazy with this over-the-top fanboism. You're making the normal players who're just trying to enjoy GW2 for what it is, and you're hurting GW2 as a whole in the long term.

 

Please :(

 

lol what kind of world do you live in? perception is reality man. you worry about shit that shouldn't concern you. perhaps you might be happier with everything if you'd just concern yourself with shit that actually matters instead of what other people are saying. 

It affects other games, and other posts more than you realize maybe? This matters as ignoring the issue only gets worse over time.

Please explain how it doesn't matter?

The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  Nikkita

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/25/10
Posts: 830

9/12/12 10:14:08 AM#147
Originally posted by SteeJanz
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by SteeJanz
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by BadSpock

 

Huh? haters can only be negative? what if a so called hater is giving a genuine criticism? i would say that is positive for the game. You are still failing to see both sides of the coin and focusing only one side.

Both haters and fans are capable of being positive and negative. 

And be my guest to tell these people who keep telling others how to enjoy the game or make topics like 'GW2 is overwhelming success so people who dislike it are just mad or jealous with its success ' that they are not fans. Would be interesting to see what they have to say about it.

I really mean this in the nicest way but your reply is ignorant.  In your attempt to argue with BadSpock you are missing his point.  A Hater will not give a genuine criticism.   Haters are not capable of being positive, just like a Fanboy will not be able to recognize a genuine criticism in which BadSpock has pointed out. 

Of course all of this is "IMO", which make anything I say ok. 

A hater is not a hater just because he gives a negative criticism the label comes after wards. But before calling me ignorant i would like to ask you in nicest way possible what the hell you have been doing on these forums if you didn't even notice a simple thing that often anyone who gives valid criticism is simple dismissed as a hater or a troll?.

Well maybe I have rose colored glasses but I don't see everyone one that posts criticism as hater and I refuse to let other posters decide for me who is or who is not a hater.   The oversimplicification of labeling that you are doing is your problem not mine.  IMO, a hater is not someone that critizes a game.  A hater would be someone that misinforms others about the game or constantly makes threads bashing a particular game, or constantly posts negative comments in positive threads, etc...  It's a body of work type of thing instead of they posted this once type of thing. 

If you want to label everyone that has a positive thing to say about a game as a Fanboy and anyone that makes a negative comment about a game a hater, then go ahead.  Whatever honks your hooter.  However, I refuse to agree with you. 

I

/faceplam

This is what happens when you jump into conversation with blinders on. if anything i am against labels and was playing devils advocate with Badspock and trying to balance things out since both sides are at fault.

 


Bite Me

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7649

Logic be damned!

9/12/12 10:14:55 AM#148
Originally posted by Fadedbomb

I don't know where these Feral Fanbois are coming from as I never had to deal with them this badly for even SWTOR. Quite frankly, I've been surprised to see all over these forums about how people are annoyed if not almost completely turned off by the rabid flaming of anything non-GW2, and how GW2 is being pushed to new heights of outlandish fanboism. It is REALLY pissing off normal GW2 fans, because when you rabidly fanboy all over GW2 you make the normal players whom are just trying to enjoy the game look bad, or at least that's how i've been reading they feel?

Now, I'll say this to put it out there. I'm not a "Fan" of GW2, but I did purchase it for $60, and do believe it is one of the best themeparks I've played. However, I know what GW2 is, and is not. So I won't go any further with it than that.

From my experience with previously overhyped titles I've had to deal with people calling me a "Hater" and an outright "Troll" because I said things like SWTOR being horribly linear, zero replayability, sub-par end-game, and a host of other straight-to-the-point statements. Ironically months later I see everything I was saying pre-release echoed throughout these forums.

Then, for GW2, I was flamed outright for calling "Dynamic Events" NOT "Dynamic" and more akin to static repeated branching SCRIPTED events. Not only was I flamed, but I experienced something I hadn't before with SWTOR. I was actually being contacted off this site by my personal email being asked to stop "Spouting nonsense you have no clue about" with regards to GW2 (I didn't even know my personal email was listed under my profile on here?).

Regardless, albeit longer than I originally wanted, my point is that you NEED to stop going crazy with this over-the-top fanboism. You're making the normal players who're just trying to enjoy GW2 for what it is, and you're hurting GW2 as a whole in the long term.

Please :(

Just an example of all the negative, combative, and blatantly troll-bait word usage and message behind your post(s) Faded.

You really need a reality check if you think posts like this are examples of your "straight-to-the-point statements" and objectivity.

It is ironic that your post asking posters to stop fanning the flames is, in itself, simply fanning the flames due to your arrogant assertions and baiting.

Now Playing: D3:RoS
Looking Towards: Destiny

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7649

Logic be damned!

9/12/12 10:16:13 AM#149
Originally posted by truthhurts
Originally posted by BadSpock

I haven't seen truly constructive / positive criticism on this site in a long, long time. It is one of "the" hardest things to do especially in the medium of text-only communication. It's no suprise it is so damned rare on MMORPG.com.

There was a thread last week where somone published a list of 11 things they disliked about GW2.  It had almost unanimous support.  And of course since the discussion was positive, the thread died rather quickly.

Wish I would have seen that, I'm going to try and find it now thanks for the heads up!

Now Playing: D3:RoS
Looking Towards: Destiny

  Fadedbomb

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/19/06
Posts: 2149

 
OP  9/12/12 10:16:14 AM#150
Originally posted by Krytycal

Blind adoration is just as destructive as blind negativity.

 

They are parts of a vicious cycle that feed and set each other off. The funny thing is, you can't have one without the other. Newtons Third Law of Motion, etc. Many around here may think I'm a hater, the truth is I don't particularly hate GW2, matter of fact I think it's a very good game. I wouldn't even be posting in this board if it weren't for the fact that everytime I check the frontpage there's is some GW2 thread full of exaggerated claims and sensationalism about how GW2 is killing this, or revolutionizing that. A subcouncious part of me wants to balance out those claims.

 

 

Ironically people turn a blind eye to those threads, and then claim that "negativity" is filling these forums up and choking off intelligent discussion.

We have no issue with "positive" threads so long as you aren't outright exaggerating the truth, or putting others down, and that is our primary issue currently is that people are either making wholefully exaggerating insulting threads or making the exact opposite.

The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  Meleagar

Novice Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 407

9/12/12 10:19:42 AM#151

I don't see how it's productive to call people fanbois or haters, unless it's just to rile people up. If you have a point about the game to make, make it. 

Mostly what I see happening when it comes to so-called "criticism" and avid, immediate fan reaction is when posters want to add things to the game, or change things, that would basically change the philosophy or structure of the game (even when they don't realize it, and think they are asking fro something simple or inclusive of other playstyles), and then all hellfire is rained down upon them.

If I wasn't playing the game so much, I'd join in that hellfire, because I want ANET to know in no uncertain terms that no, we do not want them adding/changing things that would reformulate the entire philosophy/structure of the game.

If you can't stand the hellfire, get out of the kitchen. I'm a fanboy that will rabidly defend the structural and philosophical integrity of GW2. I've waited too long for this game to let a vocal minority try to change it into the samo samo.

  Fadedbomb

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/19/06
Posts: 2149

 
OP  9/12/12 10:19:50 AM#152
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Fadedbomb

I don't know where these Feral Fanbois are coming from as I never had to deal with them this badly for even SWTOR. Quite frankly, I've been surprised to see all over these forums about how people are annoyed if not almost completely turned off by the rabid flaming of anything non-GW2, and how GW2 is being pushed to new heights of outlandish fanboism. It is REALLY pissing off normal GW2 fans, because when you rabidly fanboy all over GW2 you make the normal players whom are just trying to enjoy the game look bad, or at least that's how i've been reading they feel?

Now, I'll say this to put it out there. I'm not a "Fan" of GW2, but I did purchase it for $60, and do believe it is one of the best themeparks I've played. However, I know what GW2 is, and is not. So I won't go any further with it than that.

From my experience with previously overhyped titles I've had to deal with people calling me a "Hater" and an outright "Troll" because I said things like SWTOR being horribly linear, zero replayability, sub-par end-game, and a host of other straight-to-the-point statements. Ironically months later I see everything I was saying pre-release echoed throughout these forums.

Then, for GW2, I was flamed outright for calling "Dynamic Events" NOT "Dynamic" and more akin to static repeated branching SCRIPTED events. Not only was I flamed, but I experienced something I hadn't before with SWTOR. I was actually being contacted off this site by my personal email being asked to stop "Spouting nonsense you have no clue about" with regards to GW2 (I didn't even know my personal email was listed under my profile on here?).

Regardless, albeit longer than I originally wanted, my point is that you NEED to stop going crazy with this over-the-top fanboism. You're making the normal players who're just trying to enjoy GW2 for what it is, and you're hurting GW2 as a whole in the long term.

Please :(

Just an example of all the negative, combative, and blatantly troll-bait word usage and message behind your post(s) Faded.

You really need a reality check if you think posts like this are examples of your "straight-to-the-point statements" and objectivity.

It is ironic that your post asking posters to stop fanning the flames is, in itself, simply fanning the flames due to your arrogant assertions and baiting.

Excuse me? You highligth different points of my post, claiming they're "negative, combative, and troll-bait" without explaining which ones and why. THIS is more negative than anything I could ever post. You aren't even trying to have a discussion. You're simply trying to put me under your foot and dismiss me entirely without explaining why.

Seriously BadSpock, re-read your posts. The hypocrisy is insane.

 

Anything anyone says that you don't disagree with you dismiss entirely as "negative, trolling, being a hater, or ignorant". It is completely toxic, and not condusive to a valid discussion.

The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  SteeJanz

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/11
Posts: 346

9/12/12 10:20:51 AM#153
Originally posted by Fadedbomb
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by SteeJanz
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by BadSpock

 

Huh? haters can only be negative? what if a so called hater is giving a genuine criticism? i would say that is positive for the game. You are still failing to see both sides of the coin and focusing only one side.

Both haters and fans are capable of being positive and negative. 

And be my guest to tell these people who keep telling others how to enjoy the game or make topics like 'GW2 is overwhelming success so people who dislike it are just mad or jealous with its success ' that they are not fans. Would be interesting to see what they have to say about it.

I really mean this in the nicest way but your reply is ignorant.  In your attempt to argue with BadSpock you are missing his point.  A Hater will not give a genuine criticism.   Haters are not capable of being positive, just like a Fanboy will not be able to recognize a genuine criticism in which BadSpock has pointed out. 

Of course all of this is "IMO", which make anything I say ok. 

A hater is not a hater just because he gives a negative criticism the label comes after wards. But before calling me ignorant i would like to ask you in nicest way possible what the hell you have been doing on these forums if you didn't even notice a simple thing that often anyone who gives valid criticism is simple dismissed as a hater or a troll?.

I don't think he was making a valid point, but more than likely he was simply trying to shut down your response and dismiss it.

In my opinion BadSpock was wrong in what he said on both replies, but i've already responded to those so I won't repeat them here.

Regardless, I believe SteeJanz is the one who is being ignorant here. He ignores the falacies BadSpock puts forth without getting the "point" of why "Hater" is thrown about so willy-nilly without even a coherant reply as to why they're being labeled as such.

I think most of us that frequent this forum can say that both fanboy and hater are the two most incorrectly used words on these forums.  This thread is starting to look like a great example of that.

I assumed that both you and Nikkita could handle a little bit of criticism without getting so defensive.  Isn't that the whole point of this thread.  How the Fanboy's jump to conclusions at the defense of GW2 no matter what crticism.  I thought both of you where above that and were able to recognize honest criticisms for what the really were.

  Fadedbomb

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/19/06
Posts: 2149

 
OP  9/12/12 10:21:16 AM#154
Originally posted by Meleagar

I don't see how it's productive to call people fanbois or haters, unless it's just to rile people up. If you have a point about the game to make, make it. 

Mostly what I see happening when it comes to so-called "criticism" and avid, immediate fan reaction is when posters want to add things to the game, or change things, that would basically change the philosophy or structure of the game (even when they don't realize it, and think they are asking fro something simple or inclusive of other playstyles), and then all hellfire is rained down upon them.

If I wasn't playing the game so much, I'd join in that hellfire, because I want ANET to know in no uncertain terms that no, we do not want them adding/changing things that would reformulate the entire philosophy/structure of the game.

If you can't stand the hellfire, get out of the kitchen. I'm a fanboy that will rabidly defend the structural and philosophical integrity of GW2. I've waited too long for this game to let a vocal minority try to change it into the samo samo.

What about the threads that are completely exaggerating what GW2 is, features it has, and how it is "killing" other games off or how it is the new "Benchmark" for what an MMO should be?

Why are you vehemently ignoring those threads while concentrating on the negatives while dismissing differing opinions?

The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  BeansnBread

Elite Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5414

9/12/12 10:22:12 AM#155
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by SteeJanz

Well maybe I have rose colored glasses but I don't see everyone one that posts criticism as hater and I refuse to let other posters decide for me who is or who is not a hater.   The oversimplicification of labeling that you are doing is your problem not mine.  IMO, a hater is not someone that critizes a game.  A hater would be someone that misinforms others about the game or constantly makes threads bashing a particular game, or constantly posts negative comments in positive threads, etc...  It's a body of work type of thing instead of they posted this once type of thing. 

If you want to label everyone that has a positive thing to say about a game as a Fanboy and anyone that makes a negative comment about a game a hater, then go ahead.  Whatever honks your hooter.  However, I refuse to agree with you. 

/faceplam

This is what happens when you jump into conversation with blinders on. if anything i am against labels and was playing devils advocate with Badspock and trying to balance things out since both sides are at fault.

Facepalm? You are being really defensive and condescending. Isn't that the type of attitude you despise so much in the GW2 "feral fanbois?"

 

I'm just happy you are here to make sure everything is nice and balanced. Without you, who knows how much unfettered positvity might be spread about GW2 on this site? 

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5313

9/12/12 10:23:49 AM#156

You know what's funny?

I have learned that the content of a post doesn't matter.  So long as the post is about fanbois/haters or extremely positive or negative about GW2, then the exact same things happens.

The usual suspects will line up on either side of the issue and repeat their same arguments over and over.  There is hardly any point in doing it any more.  The only thing that is a certainty here is that no one is going to budge.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  SteeJanz

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/11
Posts: 346

9/12/12 10:23:58 AM#157
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by SteeJanz
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by SteeJanz
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by BadSpock

 

Huh? haters can only be negative? what if a so called hater is giving a genuine criticism? i would say that is positive for the game. You are still failing to see both sides of the coin and focusing only one side.

Both haters and fans are capable of being positive and negative. 

And be my guest to tell these people who keep telling others how to enjoy the game or make topics like 'GW2 is overwhelming success so people who dislike it are just mad or jealous with its success ' that they are not fans. Would be interesting to see what they have to say about it.

I really mean this in the nicest way but your reply is ignorant.  In your attempt to argue with BadSpock you are missing his point.  A Hater will not give a genuine criticism.   Haters are not capable of being positive, just like a Fanboy will not be able to recognize a genuine criticism in which BadSpock has pointed out. 

Of course all of this is "IMO", which make anything I say ok. 

A hater is not a hater just because he gives a negative criticism the label comes after wards. But before calling me ignorant i would like to ask you in nicest way possible what the hell you have been doing on these forums if you didn't even notice a simple thing that often anyone who gives valid criticism is simple dismissed as a hater or a troll?.

Well maybe I have rose colored glasses but I don't see everyone one that posts criticism as hater and I refuse to let other posters decide for me who is or who is not a hater.   The oversimplicification of labeling that you are doing is your problem not mine.  IMO, a hater is not someone that critizes a game.  A hater would be someone that misinforms others about the game or constantly makes threads bashing a particular game, or constantly posts negative comments in positive threads, etc...  It's a body of work type of thing instead of they posted this once type of thing. 

If you want to label everyone that has a positive thing to say about a game as a Fanboy and anyone that makes a negative comment about a game a hater, then go ahead.  Whatever honks your hooter.  However, I refuse to agree with you. 

I

/faceplam

This is what happens when you jump into conversation with blinders on. if anything i am against labels and was playing devils advocate with Badspock and trying to balance things out since both sides are at fault.

 

If your going to play devils advocate then you should use a valid arguement otherwise it comes across as something other than being devils advocate.

  MikeB

MMORPG.com Community Manager

Joined: 5/27/09
Posts: 5322

9/12/12 10:38:30 AM#158
Let's stay focused on discussing the actual game, and not the users posting about it.

Michael "MikeB" Bitton
Community Manager
Twitter: @eMikeB

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