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Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Because GW2 offers choice, people will see want they want to see...

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89 posts found
  dariuszp

Novice Member

Joined: 1/19/12
Posts: 187

9/12/12 6:05:33 AM#21
Originally posted by Vesavius

...and, while I get that some simply don't like what's on offer (which is fine), I have a feeling a lot of the time that is what we are seeing on these forums.

 

If People want to see grind, 'quest hubs', map markers, zerging, linear play, whatever else, then that's all they will see.

 

They will not see progression through natural flow, non marked events, small group organised action, freeform play, or whatever else.

 

I have a feeling why there is somewhat of the disconnect here on these forums as shown by a handful of dissatisified (but very active and very vocal) posters and the game.... simply because, simply, GW2 allows the player to see what they want to see and quite a few are failing to see beyond the standard themepark conditioning.

 

If you go in expecting to see WoW it is extremly possible to relate what you see to that game and shout loudly that it's the same old in a different skin. BUT, I think, if you go in prepared to adapt, take your time, and allow the game to unfold itself to you it pays off.

 

What's the point of this thread? Just an expression of thought really... what are yours?

Who cares ? Milion pre-orders, 400.000 players on day-1 even before release and servers full of people + crowder doverflow servers prove that their narrow minded thinking is not impressive. 

  dumbo11

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/03/05
Posts: 129

9/12/12 6:05:39 AM#22
Originally posted by Nikkita

But when people say 'you are playing it wrong' doesn't it contradicts Anet's own philoshpy of freedom and play it however you like? at one hand you are saying it GW2 offers freedom and choices on the other hand in same topic if you say you are playing wrong that is why you are not enjoying it....seriously..how does that even make any sense?

There is no right ot wrong way to play a game.  One can not like the game even after playing it in a manner you consider it to be the right way. Is that really that impossible? but then that would be dictating and telling players how to play which is again contradictory to original point of choice and freedom.

We're having a PnP game.  Bob joins.

The party starts in a basement.  There's a kobold.  We agree a strategy and kill it! It drops a hammer.

After much argument Bob convinces us to stay, as the kobold will respawn and we can get another hammer...  10 minutes later the GM finally agrees to respawn the hammer if Bob will leave the basement.

The party takes the new hammer, and moves outside.  It's snowing, there's a temple in the distance with a strange sound eminating - it seems to be chanting... there are a pair of kobolds that seem to be preparing a yak to make the journey, a cover of one caravan flaps invitingly....

Bob turns to the party and says "I've a great idea on power-leveling"...  the GM starts crying.

-> It is entirely possible to "play a game wrong".

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7029

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

 
OP  9/12/12 6:07:18 AM#23
Originally posted by Purutzil

...The same can be said about any game though. Some people see quests hubs as not being a grind. The choice really does nothing to what people see of the game.

 

Really? You think Rift, as an example, offered as much choice in how you approached the game as GW2 does?

Also, you don't think it is possible for people to be conditioned by what they are used to into not seeing choice?

 

Can I ask what game you consider your 'main' and what type you normally play?

 

(Not bagging on Rift here btw, before we are forced to go down that road... I respect Trion as a dev and thin Rift as it stands today is a good game).

 

  Scalpless

Elite Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 1225

9/12/12 6:19:58 AM#24

People just like different things and what some see as grind, others see as additional long-term objectives you could achieve in a month or two. One such thing is dungeon armor. Some think of it as a goal, while others (including me) think of it as a reward. Those who belong to the former group will think it's grindy and they're not factually wrong.

The bottom line is that GW2 isn't for everyone. No game is. Those who don't like it usually aren't playing it wrong, even though some people probably are. For their sake, GW2 needs a better tutorial, because old school "learn it yourself" doesn't work well nowadays.

  korent1991

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/01/09
Posts: 1297

9/12/12 6:25:51 AM#25
Originally posted by immodium
Originally posted by Meowhead
Originally posted by Sylvarii
This is just another "you're playing it wrong" thread.

Well to be fair, I think if you're playing a game and not enjoying it, something is probably going wrong. :c

I can't play a game very long after I stop enjoying it.

There's lots of games I can't stand the thought of playing, but lots of people do, so I figure I must be doing SOMETHING wrong.  Thankfully it doesn't bother me that I'm no good at enjoying say.... sports games.

I save my skill point purchases for critical enjoyment skills for other types of games.

No. They just may not like the game. It has nothing to do with playing it wrong.

 

Also, you really don't have to think that differently to enjoy this game if coming from WoW or any other themepark based game.

But you do... It's been discussed to death in game chat about people dieing in story mode or explorable mode in dungeons.

People are just thinking it wrong... Pepople expect the "ordinary" tank/spank with few heals thrown around at them and they enter the wipe-fest which lasts for 3 hours until they decide to split. It's really hard to adjust at first and it gets frustrating just because people think this game is the same in mechanics when it's really nothing like we've played before.

"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------

  Naral

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/07/10
Posts: 735

9/12/12 6:33:44 AM#26
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by immodium

Played WOW for 5 years and EVE for 4 and yet i fail to see what is so deep and complex about GW2. A lot of players are capable of enjoying all type of games really.

GW2 is a fun game but not all that deep as some of the over the top fans try to make it and that is what is getting on nerves of real fans like Sylvari (i think he is the most honest and level headed GW2 fan around here)

But anyways this is another version of 'you are doing it wrong' topic which has been posted and closed by mods 4 times already.

This, pretty much. I love GW2, but in many ways it feels like WoW, or any other theme park. I am having fun, and I like the pricing model. But to say anything is earth shatteringly new or deep, well, I just don't see it, and I am a fan of the game.

DEs fell way *way* short of what they could have and should have been. I have several friends who talked about DEs like they were going to change the face of MMORPGs, and all the ones I have been in pretty much feel exactly like PQs and RIFTs. Skills and weapon switching, fun, but also, don't feel like they are breaking any molds here.

I love playing this game, and for the time am having a lot of fun. But I really do not feel like I am plunging ahead into virgin MMO territory.  Maybe a little deeper than some MMOs, but no olympic sized swimming pool, for sure.

 

  wartyxwt

Novice Member

Joined: 4/17/10
Posts: 181

9/12/12 6:35:50 AM#27
Originally posted by GoldenArrow

"The game is not bad, you are playing it wrong".

This can be said about every freaking game ever made.

I challenge you to play Iznogaud. It's like they knew... Also OT I agree this is another "you're wrong" and no amount of protesting will change that. Maybe we're reading the thread wrong?!

Love GW2 but you know I really just dont care if others dont (unless it's a ridiculous hyperbolic claim like there's no PVP or something else stupid)

  immodium

Elite Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1183

9/12/12 6:39:16 AM#28
Originally posted by korent1991
Originally posted by immodium
Originally posted by Meowhead
Originally posted by Sylvarii
This is just another "you're playing it wrong" thread.

Well to be fair, I think if you're playing a game and not enjoying it, something is probably going wrong. :c

I can't play a game very long after I stop enjoying it.

There's lots of games I can't stand the thought of playing, but lots of people do, so I figure I must be doing SOMETHING wrong.  Thankfully it doesn't bother me that I'm no good at enjoying say.... sports games.

I save my skill point purchases for critical enjoyment skills for other types of games.

No. They just may not like the game. It has nothing to do with playing it wrong.

 

Also, you really don't have to think that differently to enjoy this game if coming from WoW or any other themepark based game.

But you do... It's been discussed to death in game chat about people dieing in story mode or explorable mode in dungeons.

People are just thinking it wrong... Pepople expect the "ordinary" tank/spank with few heals thrown around at them and they enter the wipe-fest which lasts for 3 hours until they decide to split. It's really hard to adjust at first and it gets frustrating just because people think this game is the same in mechanics when it's really nothing like we've played before.

Their just bad players. Which you can get in all MMO's if you don't think. There's also the very good players who find them easy.

Also, it maybe nothing like YOU have played before.

  Loke666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16023

9/12/12 6:40:11 AM#29
Originally posted by GoldenArrow

"The game is not bad, you are playing it wrong".

This can be said about every freaking game ever made.

Not really, GW2 best point is that you actually can jump the past of the content you dont like and still have a lot to do.

If you hate stories and instances, just skip them. In most themeparks at best PvP and crafting is optional but that is about that.

UO was like that too, and I hope it catches on this time. Forcing people who just like PvP to level up the entire game through PvE to enjoy the PvP game is just wrong.

  Tardcore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/09
Posts: 2370

"A strange game. The only winning move is not to post."

9/12/12 6:41:54 AM#30
Originally posted by Vesavius

...and, while I get that some simply don't like what's on offer (which is fine), I have a feeling a lot of the time that is what we are seeing on these forums.

 

If People want to see grind, 'quest hubs', map markers, zerging, linear play, whatever else, then that's all they will see.

 

They will not see progression through natural flow, non marked events, small group organised action, freeform play, or whatever else.

 

I have a feeling why there is somewhat of the disconnect here on these forums as shown by a handful of dissatisified (but very active and very vocal) posters and the game.... simply because, simply, GW2 allows the player to see what they want to see and quite a few are failing to see beyond the standard themepark conditioning.

 

If you go in expecting to see WoW it is extremly possible to relate what you see to that game and shout loudly that it's the same old in a different skin. BUT, I think, if you go in prepared to adapt, take your time, and allow the game to unfold itself to you it pays off.

 

What's the point of this thread? Just an expression of thought really... what are yours?

 

 

 

Blah blah blah blah. Yet another "If you don't like the game you just don't get it cause its like SOOOOO different mang" thread.

Hate to burst your bubble friend but all A-net changed was how the content was delivered, not the content itself. People who are weary of "go here and kill that, then jump into an instanced battleground or dungeon or two" in other games aren't going to find anything new here. In fact in the long term I think they are going to find there is actually LESS stuff to do, as the only big change A-net made was to remove certain portions of Wow thempark model of content, and then not replace it with anything.

Frankly time will tell. And I think the "GW2 is such a beautiful and unique snowflake that's going to change the entire genre" crowd will get its first big kick in the pants come the end of the month when the Pandyland expansion sells an obscene (and IMHO undeserved) number of units.

"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  Purutzil

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2644

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

9/12/12 6:51:35 AM#31
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Purutzil

...The same can be said about any game though. Some people see quests hubs as not being a grind. The choice really does nothing to what people see of the game.

 

Really? You think Rift, as an example, offered as much choice in how you approached the game as GW2 does?

Also, you don't think it is possible for people to be conditioned by what they are used to into not seeing choice?

 

Can I ask what game you consider your 'main' and what type you normally play?

 

(Not bagging on Rift here btw, before we are forced to go down that road... I respect Trion as a dev and thin Rift as it stands today is a good game).

 

Alright here it goes since I know rift. :) Rift on Left, GW2 on right.  Some are a little oddly matched for the sake that both games do it different, for example Open world pvp to WvW since GW2 doesn't have any (which btw, isn't nessarily a bad thing)

 

Quests - Hearts

Warfronts - sPvP

World Events/invasions - Events 

Dungeons - Dungeons 

Exploring - Poi/Vista

Open World PvP - WvW

Daily Quests - Daily Achievements

Crafting/Gathering - Crafting/Gathering

Chronicals - Personal Story (hard to match this one)

 

Just comparing to every detail I can think of. I could of made Rift sound better but I figure I'd just give it an equal appearance since Rift does have more time out then GW2and I have a personal Bias towards Rift which wouldn't be fair to exploit much like a GW2 bias.  I'm a rift fan so I tried to make it sound even rather then smacking GW2 in the face, just for the sake of knowing my bias would start snapping in despite my best efforts so I figure I'd just compare them on equal ground. :)

 

  Lorkii

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/04/12
Posts: 90

9/12/12 6:53:19 AM#32
Originally posted by Purutzil
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Purutzil

...The same can be said about any game though. Some people see quests hubs as not being a grind. The choice really does nothing to what people see of the game.

 

Really? You think Rift, as an example, offered as much choice in how you approached the game as GW2 does?

Also, you don't think it is possible for people to be conditioned by what they are used to into not seeing choice?

 

Can I ask what game you consider your 'main' and what type you normally play?

 

(Not bagging on Rift here btw, before we are forced to go down that road... I respect Trion as a dev and thin Rift as it stands today is a good game).

 

Alright here it goes since I know rift. :) Rift on Left, GW2 on right.  Some are a little oddly matched for the sake that both games do it different, for example Open world pvp to WvW since GW2 doesn't have any (which btw, isn't nessarily a bad thing)

 

Quests - Hearts

Warfronts - sPvP

World Events/invasions - Events 

Dungeons - Dungeons 

Exploring - Poi/Vista

Open World PvP - WvW

Daily Quests - Daily Achievements

Crafting/Gathering - Crafting/Gathering

Chronicals - Personal Story (hard to match this one)

 

Just comparing to every detail I can think of. I could of made Rift sound better but I figure I'd just give it an equal appearance since Rift does have more time out then GW2and I have a personal Bias towards Rift which wouldn't be fair to exploit much like a GW2 bias.  I'm a rift fan so I tried to make it sound even rather then smacking GW2 in the face, just for the sake of knowing my bias would start snapping in despite my best efforts so I figure I'd jsut compare them on equal ground. :)

 

Don t forget IAs and Conquest.

  Loke666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16023

9/12/12 6:55:46 AM#33
Originally posted by Tardcore

Blah blah blah blah. Yet another "If you don't like the game you just don't get it cause its like SOOOOO different mang" thread.

Hate to burst your bubble friend but all A-net changed was how the content was delivered, not the content itself. People who are weary of "go here and kill that, then jump into an instanced battleground or dungeon or two" in other games aren't going to find anything new here. In fact in the long term I think they are going to find there is actually LESS stuff to do, as the only big change A-net made was to remove certain portions of Wow thempark model of content, and then not replace it with anything.

Frankly time will tell. And I think the "GW2 is such a beautiful and unique snowflake that's going to change the entire genre" crowd will get its first big kick in the pants come the end of the month when the Pandyland expansion sells an obscene (and IMHO undeserved) number of units.

Not really, there are a few changes here. One important is that DEs dont forces you to have done earlier DEs like quests do and you have more choices in what content you want to do, in which order you want to do it and what you want to skip.

That does not mean everyone will like it of course but other games can take the hint and add more choices in them.

  elyssaria

Novice Member

Joined: 1/07/09
Posts: 41

9/12/12 6:59:47 AM#34

Well I must say that I really didn't find the feeling for this game.. imo Guildwars 1 was alot better.

 

I logged in played like 30 minutes at the headstart and had not even logged in more after that :p I guess this game was a disappointment for me simple as that. (For your noticed I have played the game a couple of hours during the beta as well).

 

Wish I didn't bought it :(

 

/Ely

  Kuinn

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/11
Posts: 1845

9/12/12 7:00:43 AM#35

People can play this game like a WoW clone by systematically following from heart to heart, and that's fine, the option is there and has to be, so aimless people have somekind of hardpoints on the game world.

 

But the OP also has a point, if players refuse to explore any other ways of play since it's a choise in this game unlike in WoW clones, then there's the possibility that they are the engineers of their own failure. This game is OFCOURSE not for everyone, but I feel there's too many people pecking around who fail to realize, after so many WoW clones, that there is more choises present now.

 

If you dont like doing quests in TOR, the game obviously is not for you since that's the only thing you do to level there. If you dont like doing hearts in GW2, then dont do them since they are just a one way to level in the game.

 

I'm not talking about the crowd who simply dont like the game, that crowd is real and acknowledged, I'm talking about those who fail to realize all the possible options coming from games that did not have any options. The "they just dont like the game"-posters on this site are heavily over estimating an average WoW player if you honestly believe that they have the capacity always to grasp and understand everything that's been offered, coming from tunnel runners like TOR or Rift, possibly having that mindset too.

 

Then there's the people who really really really dont like the game at all, who didnt like WoW or any of its clones, who does not like EVE or any of the sandboxes, who will not like Arche Age or any other upcoming mmorpg. Those people I dont know what the fuck they are doing in these games or why the hell they are wasting their time crying about these games on forums.

  MMOwanderer

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/23/12
Posts: 417

9/12/12 7:04:38 AM#36

This thread reminds me of the OP's other topic: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/view/forums/thread/364417/page/1

So now instead of it being "GW2 needs a sandbox mentality" it's "GW2 takes adapting, time and allow the game to unfold to see it how it's meant to be seen"?

Not hating OP, but, this thread looks very familiar indeed.

  Slampig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 2372

Whatever you do, do NOT speak ill of Asheron's Call 2...

9/12/12 7:06:05 AM#37
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Sylvarii
This is just another "you're playing it wrong" thread.

 

No, it really just isn't. But you thinking that is obviously an example of what I am talking about.

You are seeing just what you want to see and stopping there.

This easily could be, for example, a discussion about the viability of choice as core design for the mass market, amongst other things. Throwing up fashionable memes from the 'net is the easy route though I guess.

 

You are doing the exact same thing. That or this IS a "you're playing it wrong" thread.

What do you want? Some people do not like the game or like it but have legit complaints, why does it matter? You people are so hard up for everyone to love this game and it just isn't the case, so here we go with yet another thread just like the one before and the one before that. Word it however you want but Sylvaril has it right.

That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 6475

9/12/12 7:11:20 AM#38

All mmorpgs offer choice, except for swtor... 

 

GW2 does not give choice beyond what most mmorpgs offer.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4076

Remember the blisters you'd get in the palm of your hand from the corner of that joystick?

9/12/12 7:13:27 AM#39

Can we just please just stop?

It's been said. The game isn't for everyone. But who is it for? Who isn't it for? Is there grey area? Can someone be only mildly impressed and still not be doing it wrong? and Who has the right to determine any of that?

OK, if soe many people are in fact playing it "wrong", who's fault is that really?

If it was one or two out of many, Fine, but it's not. So who failed here? The players? Arena Net?

And my final thought on "your doing it wrong" is......

It's GW2 not frikkin astro physics. It's only a damned MMO. Kids play these games and of them GW2 isn't a particularly complicated one. It's kind of a misplaced elitist attitiude to imply this game is more complicated than it is. It's not.

Recently started playing SWTOR. I am posting updates to my experience in this thread:
SWTOR Experience

  Kuinn

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/11
Posts: 1845

9/12/12 7:19:41 AM#40
Originally posted by Tardcore

Blah blah blah blah. Yet another "If you don't like the game you just don't get it cause its like SOOOOO different mang" thread.

Hate to burst your bubble friend but all A-net changed was how the content was delivered, not the content itself. People who are weary of "go here and kill that, then jump into an instanced battleground or dungeon or two" in other games aren't going to find anything new here. In fact in the long term I think they are going to find there is actually LESS stuff to do, as the only big change A-net made was to remove certain portions of Wow thempark model of content, and then not replace it with anything.

Frankly time will tell. And I think the "GW2 is such a beautiful and unique snowflake that's going to change the entire genre" crowd will get its first big kick in the pants come the end of the month when the Pandyland expansion sells an obscene (and IMHO undeserved) number of units.

 

Less? If you're one of the guys who consider instances only as end-game, then sure! Spot on!

 

WoW has basic questing and crafting for leveling. Then it has dungeons and raids for end-game, and battlegrounds + arena for PvP (and technically world PvP if you can find it).

 

GW2 has basic questing and a bit more interesting crafting, personal story, all kinds of events everywhere + group events and world bosses, guided exploration with rewards, un-guided exploration with rewards. All this goes for end-game too since post max level skill gaining and down scaling, along with the dungeons. And then there's the battlegrounds + tournaments and 3xW for PvP.

 

Raiders will want to stick with WoW obviously. The more casual crowd like me who felt like left out in WoW and found the open world useless, will find GW2 a lot better choise for having a ton of stuff to do in the actual game world.

 

WoW has obviously hit its target audience, I dont see why GW2 wouldnt since no other themepark offers what GW2 does to people like me, an open world to play in instead of sitting in que to instance all day long.

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