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9/12/12 1:30:42 AM#21
For the forseeable future I'm done with quests. Unless I absolutely have to complete them to get through the game I don't bother anymore. What bothers me most about them is they are virtually impossible to fail. In thr process of me "Killing 10 boars" even if I die 7,372 times they consider it a sucess. In the process of "Picking up 10 rocks" even if it takes me 3 years to complete they consider it a success.
"How should I know if it works? That's what beta testers are for. I only coded it." |
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Tardcore
 Apprentice Member
Joined: 9/13/09
"A strange game. The only winning move is not to post." |
9/12/12 3:27:24 AM#22
Originally posted by GeezerGamer Awww damn it!! On the topic of farm hands, in a certain game why is it we are always given the boring chores such as stamp mounds of dirt, feed the cows, and water some plants, when it would be way more enjoyable to be given the task of flea bombing farm hand Rebecca?
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . " |
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9/12/12 3:29:59 AM#23
Originally posted by ShakyMo Stealth quests are fun, but many MMOs class system makes them either close to impossible or really easy depending on what class you play. |
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kadepsyson
 Elite Member
Joined: 5/15/06
The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that. |
9/12/12 3:31:25 AM#24
I think a quest should span an entire single player RPG's worth of time. I don't think a task such as "pick up some grapes for me" should even be considered a "quest". A quest should have an immense feel to it, it should be a massive undertaking in terms of difficulty, time, and travel.
El Psy Congroo |
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9/12/12 3:33:52 AM#25
Originally posted by dave6660
Well, it would be easy to reset quests if you die once or a few times during them but the problem is realy that in most MMOs you can have quests in your log for months without completing them. GW2 and TSW are really right there, what totally blows are overfilled questlogs. Quest or DEs should be large and epic, when someone ask me to pick up 10 rocks lying next to him I hust get mad, I am an adventurer, not a manservant. Conan would have him beaten just for asking. |
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kadepsyson
Elite Member
Joined: 5/15/06
The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that. |
9/12/12 3:38:08 AM#26
Originally posted by Loke666 I am an advanturer, not a manservant. Exactly! I mean, I'm this human that has a MAGICAL bow that shoots an INFINITE amount of arrows, and with that I've managed to slay over a thousand centaurs, I've banished ghosts, and helped take down enemies so immense they could have ravaged all of civilization! But, sure, I'll just be cleaning up your cows. I don't know why I'm cleaning your cows, but if I don't I won't get these achievement points, see? These points are important, not because they do anything, which they don't, but because without achievements, well now there wouldn't be anything left to do. El Psy Congroo |
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9/12/12 3:46:04 AM#27
Originally posted by kadepsyson That is funny enough something I asked myself in any themepark MMO I ever played since M59. Ok, it might not always be cowpies but pestkilling or whatever. Ratcatching is not work for heroes either. And it isnt that hard to fix either. I rather have fewer but larger and more complicated quests/DEs than simple and stupid ones. |
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9/12/12 5:13:32 AM#28
There are a bunch of other things you could do for quests, but it wouldn't change anything... an MMO quest is 3 stages: 1) have a fight. 2) optionally click on a macguffin (or collect them/defend them). 3) reward. There's a lot of fancy framing around it, but essentially the gameplay is step 1. Changing steps 2 or 3 may hide that fact better, but it's essentially a TV program with a gunfight and some talking... --- The real question is 'can you have non-combat quests in a combat MMO'? Traditionally the answer is "lol, no that's easymode to get phatloot"... but it's now 2012 and things have changed. There is now an opportunity to start creating successful MMOs with "less" focus on combat... or even no real combat at all. |
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9/12/12 5:16:52 AM#29
In many mmos when you are in a quest to kill x of something and everyone else joins and you have to decide how to do it, or how to aid the ones doing it, no matter how many choices you have or if you are the only one doing it, you still feel that you are a small and insignificant part of a mechanic of the game, like you have no place in that imaginary world and you are just doing filler content that is not interesting at all. But what if somehow a game managed to make every quest unique and gave every avatar an unique path / destiny, different to everyone elses'? What if that game could make your rewards different and your role in the events more suited to your personalized experience, so you can bring something new and unexpected that no one else can...? What if you could discover something unique that is not part of any map and you could put your flag on top of it, name it your domain? What if you could develop a skill that is unique to your character, or a craft that can only be made with your knowledge and you could open your own dojo to impart on other players your singular capabilities and techniques... forming a clan with something unique to share and treasure? What if something as simple as a hunt quest could take you hours into dense jungles, chasing after a prey that tries to anticipate your next move luring you into dangerous traps? Yes, I mean as a regular quest (instead of the: killing X and bringing quest item X for your reward) not as any scripted instance / single-player story line / dungeon but as a challenge that is aware of your presence, one that doesnt constantly reappears. What if your death meant more than a penalty and a respawn / resurrection? You would have to be fully invested in your actions that wouldnt depend on stats or abstract mechanics but on intelligence and determination, challenging an enemy of no level classification wouldn't instantly kill you but it also wouldnt solely depend on a few careless seconds of rutinary actions, why not? Because you couldnt possibly follow the same procedure with an enemy that tries to anticipate you, instead of blindly following an specific behavior pattern, maybe that enemy wouldnt even be interested in fighting you at all and you could shamefully become its new chew toy. When a game like this happens we will start meaning something more than a Level/Race/Class/Specialization/Faction/Prestige/Personalized Appearance/Wealth........ combination and become something truly valuable, we will earn real experience.... the type of experience that you can normaly get in other games by learning to become more specialized, will not help you overcome a game that is in constant change. |
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9/12/12 5:28:14 AM#30
Since the "quests" aren't nearly as good as quests/missions/objectives in single player games, I'd say there is some room for growth. I find this thread silly actually. Wake me up when the "quests" get as good as an objective in Deus ex. Which is from 2000 actually, 12 years ago. Hell, I'd settle for Fallout:NV typee missions.
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9/12/12 5:28:21 AM#31
Lotro had a fab series of quests which you played as a hen. That's right a hen in the Shire! SWTOR as an April fools joke promised upcoming quests playing your droid, so you could see what being a droid servant was like. That could have been a real laugh too, shame they did not do it. Depth in quests requires complexity. On launch day you would get the 'its too complex threads'. MMO's these days are being made for the lowest common denominator, thats good marketing but not quality gaming. |
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9/12/12 5:45:17 AM#32
Originally posted by Dewm +2 If there's a war on, I'd really like to feel like I'm taking part in it, not running support somewhere far behind the frontlines. There really is a lot of potential in MMO's that have gone untapped in recent years, and its a damned shame. |
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9/12/12 6:48:46 AM#33
Originally posted by kadepsyson
You know... even Hercules had a task to clean stables. You think you're better than Hercules? Well, DO YOU?! Oderint, dum metuant. |
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9/12/12 6:53:40 AM#34
It's not hard to come up with loads of ideas for better questing. When most quests are filler kill X collect Y crap it's easy to imagine player made quests or a random quest generator. It's a lot like asking if the AI can be improved when everything is as dumb as a post. Sky is the limit.
How to post links. Check it Archeage |
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Tardcore
Apprentice Member
Joined: 9/13/09
"A strange game. The only winning move is not to post." |
9/12/12 6:55:23 AM#35
Originally posted by Volkon Yeah and he did it in the most ass way possible. He just redirected a river to flood the place out. "Yeah great work Herc, its spotless. Too bad all my family and livestock have drowned, my crops are ruined, and my house has been swept away .. ya big dummy."
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . " |
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9/12/12 6:58:25 AM#36
Originally posted by Aelious Agreed with this. Having static pve type tasks to do is perfectly fine, even in a sandbox. But they need to feel like that. A quests is an epic storyline adventure. I have not problem with halping farmers do their job if it's just a side activitty or, that those jobs end up connecting to something very epic and important for the general are. Just collecting fish, rats, rabbits, cows, etc, etc all by itself is not what i call questing. |
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9/12/12 7:03:50 AM#37
Originally posted by MMOwanderer pretty much this. the writers make all these quests to just fill the bucket and in the end they are just more of the same. I'd rather have far fewer quests but with more to them. |
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9/12/12 7:05:32 AM#38
Yeah, you think you have it bad now? More on Hercules: (From here, credit where credit's due)
One: Kill the Nemean Lion (Basic kill quest)This monster of a lion had a hide was so tough that no arrow could pierce it. Hercules stunned the beast with his olive-wood club and then strangled it with his bare hands. It is said that he skinned the lion, using the lion's sharp claws, and ever after wore its hide. Two: Kill the Lernean Hydra (Basic kill quest)The evil, snakelike Hydra had nine heads. If one got hurt, two would grow in its place. But Hercules quickly sliced off the heads, while his charioteer, Iolaus, sealed the wounds with a torch. Hercules made his arrows poisonous by dipping them in the Hydra's blood. Three: Capture the Cerynian Hind (Fetch quest)The goddess Artemis loved and protected this stubborn little deer, which had gold horns. Hercules found it a challenge to capture the delicate hind without hurting it (and making Artemis angry). After following the hind for an entire year, he safely carried it away. Four: Capture the Erymanthian Boar (Fetch quest)The people of Mount Erymanthus lived in fear of this deadly animal. Hercules chased the wild boar up the mountain and into a snowdrift. He then took it in a net and brought it to King Eurystheus, who was so frightened of the beast that he hid in a huge bronze jar. Five: Clean the Augean Stables (Task. Renown heart?)Thousands of cows lived in these stables belonging to King Augeas. They had not been cleaned in 30 years, but Hercules was told to clean them completely in a single day. To do so he made two rivers bend so that they flowed into the stables, sweeping out the filth. Six: Kill the Stymphalian Birds (Kill quest)These murderous birds lived around Lake Stymphalos. Their claws and beaks were sharp as metal and their feathers flew like darts. Hercules scared them out of their nests with a rattle and then killed them with the poison arrows he had made from the Hydra's blood. Seven: Capture the Cretan Bull (Fetch quest)This savage bull, kept by King Minos of Crete, was said to be insane and breathe fire. Hercules wrestled the mad beast to the ground and brought it back to King Eurystheus. Unfortunately, the king set it free, and it roamed Greece, causing terror wherever it went. Eight: Capture the Horses of Diomedes (Fetch quest)King Diomedes, leader of the Bistones, fed his bloodthirsty horses on human flesh. Hercules and his men fought and killed King Diomedes and fed the king to his horses. This made the horses tame, so that Hercules was able to lead them to King Eurystheus. Nine: Take the Girdle of the Amazon Queen Hippolyte (Fetch quest)Hercules went to the land of the Amazons, where the queen welcomed him and agreed to give him her girdle for Eurystheus's daughter. But Hera spread the rumor that Hercules came as an enemy. In the end he had to conquer the Amazons and steal the golden belt. Ten: Capture the Cattle of Geryon (Fetch quest)Geryon, a winged monster with three human bodies, had a herd of beautiful red cattle. He guarded his prized herd with the help of a giant and a vicious two-headed dog. Hercules killed Geryon, the giant, and the dog and brought the cattle to King Eurystheus. Eleven: Take the Golden Apples of the Hesperides (Basic task)The Hesperides were nymphs. In their garden grew golden apples protected by Ladon, a dragon with a hundred heads. Hercules struck a bargain with Atlas, who held up the earth. Hercules shouldered the earth while Atlas, the nymphs' father, fetched the apples. Twelve: Capture Cerberus (Fetch quest)Hercules was ordered to capture Cerberus, the three-headed guard dog of the underworld, without using weapons. Hercules wrestled down the dog's wild heads, and it agreed to go with him to King Eurystheus. Cerberus was soon returned unharmed to the underworld. Oderint, dum metuant. |
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9/12/12 7:20:43 AM#39
Originally posted by Volkon Thank you Volkon, I pretty much said the exact same thing in another thread. If one goes through all our favorite mythology stories you find that all quests boil down to the same simple but enjoyable formulas. Maybe players forget the "role playing" part and don't use their imagination when they kill Aunt Edda's giant wyvern in the garden. One player kills a giant Wyvern threatening Aunt Edda and her prized beet pies and another gets 150 xp but no cool drops. |
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9/12/12 7:25:13 AM#40
Originally posted by Sovrath
There really are only so many ways to deliver quests/tasks/events in an MMO, and as you mentioned, history itself shows this. I particularly get a kick out of the golden apples task... there's one idea that fortunately never made it into MMOs. "Here, hold this for me while I go do something..." Oderint, dum metuant. |
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