Originally posted by IG-88

 

I never got hooked on it back then, it seemed too confusing.

what you call call "confusing" i cal diversity and complexity and lively.

Everything got dumped down with the NGE. What was left was a shallow unplayable abortion.

SWG did offer content for lots of playstyles eplorer, crafter, PvP,  RP etc and had 300k subs. After the NGExitus it went down to 10k. That says all.

NGE was a monstrosity that need to be shown to any future developer to avoid with such experiments and keep them in laboratorys at best but not release to public ro cause havoc.

PRE / CU was the golden age highlight of MMORPG's devlopement it was almost perfect and barely a MMOPRG did rehash what PRE CU had to offer even a decade after.

Skill system, crafting, playerhousing, pet system all novelties of that time that are still not matched by any other game today .

ALL MMORPG's should start at the point of SWG PRE / CU and expand from there. 

Sure some MMORPG's of todays have 1 thing probs better like faction wars (Galactic Civil War was one of the few missed areas of SWG) or Ryzom's ecosystem   but the overly worldy feeling still remains unmatched.

Originally posted by superniceguy

Yeah no thanks to Lucasarts. 

Julio Torres was the producer for SWG up until the NGE, and he was the one who discussed the NGE in delight on Attack of the Show and on the official forums for the first which was reposted by someone on these forums and Gamespy

Julio Torres was also producer for KOTOR 1 and The Force Unleashed. He was a Lucasarts employee, temporarily working for SOE. So quite easy to mistake SOE for the bad guys.

After the NGE did not live up to their expectaions, the Producers that followed were SOE employees, with Tony "Teesquared" Tyson being the last one. 

At least SOE improved the game from Nov 2005, and added tonnes more to it, which was more than what Bioware is doing for SWTOR - which is virtually nothing, hence the poor retention of players.

SOEs bad reputation should not be for the NGE which was mostly by LA, but their general incompetance in everything they do. The Latest thing being the transition to ProSieben for EU players. It has been going on for over 8 months now, and DCUO transition was a mess, which resulted in other games being halted in trasnition which is a good thing, and still no solid plan. There is absolutely no confidence whatsoever that the transition will be any good even once they have sorted things out.

They always do stuff, wait for any outcry, and then adjust things as necessary. Why they do not have the intuition to get things right within themselves without relying on customers complaints is beyond me.

Actually thanks for shreding light on that info I wasn't aware of that before you mentioned it.

I think SOE seems to only been able to do 1 game good and maintained it - Planetside series.

Originally posted by Weretigar
Best thing that ever happend to SWG was jump to lightspeed.

Actually I can agree with that first part of your statement.

SWG was really the only game that even tries to merge land based mmo with Elite or X style space game - which means it is pretty much the only sci-fi mmo that tried to give players a holistic space-with-planets experience to the players so far.

Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG

Originally posted by superniceguy

Yeah no thanks to Lucasarts. 

Julio Torres was the producer for SWG up until the NGE, and he was the one who discussed the NGE in delight on Attack of the Show and on the official forums for the first which was reposted by someone on these forums and Gamespy

Julio Torres was also producer for KOTOR 1 and The Force Unleashed. He was a Lucasarts employee, temporarily working for SOE. So quite easy to mistake SOE for the bad guys.

Actually thanks for shreding light on that info I wasn't aware of that before you mentioned it.

I think SOE seems to only been able to do 1 game good and maintained it - Planetside series.

A lot of the "Anti-NGE Crowd" seem to gloss over or outright miss this point.

Julio and Nancy were the biggest detriment to SW:G in 2005.

And yes...SOE made huge mistakes wiht the way they communicated the game play change from CU to NGE....but I'm willing to bet that the lack of communication in late October 2005 and the first 7 days of november were the result of a Lucas Arts NDA over the NGE changes.

Originally posted by IG-88

Interesting reading.

The reason i created the thread was that it really baffles me that people who played PRE-CU and quit playing with the NGE, still to this day (6-7 years later) still express an enormous rage and hate towads not only the NGE, but players who enjoy it as well.

I mean, it could just be as simple as walking away and thats it.

I think you are right in saying there was an unusual amount of rage regarding the NGE, for numerous reasons.

For one thing, I think SWG (Pre-CU) was able to really grab people BECAUSE of the afformentioned freedom (that many may have mistaken for complexity... which is truly sad). I personally have never felt an attachment for any of my MMO toons as I did for my Pre-CU Zabraki wanderer.  That micromanagement and nuance is what made our characters different and special, and they truly felt special. It should be noted that the community was awesome Pre-CU, and that 'complexity' is a large factor in the interdependancy that made the community awesome. I personally enjoyed learning and teaching new aspects of the game very much. Which all went poof on NGE day.  

Another factor in the rage, is that (at least to my knowledge) the NGEwas the first epic betrayal a well known IP MMO had ever been a victim of. The first cut is the deepest as they say (which also may be a factor in never being fully attached to another MMO toon since).  

Pre-CU had 32 professions you could mix around. And the crafting was the best I've seen in an mmorpg, ever.

NGE condensed these classes into 9 iconic professions. They got rid of item decay and added dungeons with loot drops and trading card game loot.

That one-two punch to the game basically ripped the soul out of swg. The irony is even after the game was gutted, it still had way more freedom and options than any of the current themeparks these days.

Ok, so, a purely hypothtical question:

If SWG was to be resurrected what parts would you change? Known parts are the profession system, item decay, dungeons,

 crafting system, what else? After all, NGE was massive in content, like it or not.

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Originally posted by IG-88
Ok, so, a purely hypothtical question:

If SWG was to be resurrected what parts would you change? Known parts are the profession system, item decay, dungeons,

 crafting system, what else? After all, NGE was massive in content, like it or not.

 

 

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The buff system was out of control.
Combat was its weakest link.
Game had the worst rubber banding ever.
They needed to finish a lot of the professions still.
They needed to figure out all the caps before implementing all these stats and variations.
They should have never gotten rid of jedi perma death and never implemented the holo grind.
I would make dungeon loot be recipes only
Get rid of the 9 iconics and bring back the 32
Blend beast mastery with old bio eng and bring back old creature handler
TCG had too many unique and powerful rewards
bring back item decay

Originally posted by Foomerang

 

The buff system was out of control.
TCG had too many unique and powerful rewards

Could you elaborate on these two?

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Originally posted by IG-88

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Originally posted by Foomerang   The buff system was out of control. TCG had too many unique and powerful rewards

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Could you elaborate on these two?

 

 

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For the record, i think nge did a lot of things right but also wrong. If i had to choose between precu and nge id choose precu but i would sorely miss some of the systems put into nge.

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Originally posted by Thorbrand
I played Vanilla SWG and I will say this. I stopped because it became a 4hr job everyday to check harvesters and I refuse to play any game that becomes a job.

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Originally posted by Foomerang

 

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Originally posted by Thorbrand
I played Vanilla SWG and I will say this. I stopped because it became a 4hr job everyday to check harvesters and I refuse to play any game that becomes a job.

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I can respect that. Swg was about setting personal goals that you could accomplish and enjoy. It didnt work for everyone.

 

I can respect that as well. I'm at a place in my life where I don't have as much time to play. That wasn't the case in Pre-CU SWG, and I liked it that way. It did (does ) require a very large amount of time investment.

Of course, this was at a time when it was ok to not be able to max your toon in a few days :P

Why do I hate SOE/LA and the NGE?  My two mains were Master Doctor and Master Ranger/Rifleman.  Everything I worked for since the launch of the game was wiped out in a single patch. 

If they had simply shut down the game I could have accepted the loss, but no...They had the audacity to tell me that all the fun I had before was "doing it wrong" and that I didn't want to be Uncle Owen and that now I should play a more "iconic" role.  Sorry assholes, your silly mind tricks don't work on me.

Originally posted by IG-88

When i first bought and installed SWG, it was my first MMO, in fact, there were jsut not that many MMO+s around,mostly due to the fact that not many people had broadband.

I never got hooked on it back then, it seemed too confusing.

Some years later i returned, just to see what it was like and this was after NGE.

This time i got really hooked, played like 8h/day to the end.

But all the while, people was whining about PRE-CU and that "everything was better then".

So, what was so good about PRE-CU?

All i know is that it was sort of a classless system, instead of the level/expertise system later on.

But what else made it so good that players even today dont spare any hate for NGE or the players ?

Oh, and please keep it civil,shall we...

The best answer that I can give is this:

For those that understand no explanation is needed

For those that don't no explanation is possible

Originally posted by Drevar

Why do I hate SOE/LA and the NGE?  My two mains were Master Doctor and Master Ranger/Rifleman.  Everything I worked for since the launch of the game was wiped out in a single patch. 

If they had simply shut down the game I could have accepted the loss, but no...They had the audacity to tell me that all the fun I had before was "doing it wrong" and that I didn't want to be Uncle Owen and that now I should play a more "iconic" role.  Sorry assholes, your silly mind tricks don't work on me.

 

MCH / MBE here

I feel your pain :(

Originally posted by Iylz
^^This. There are always min-maxers and the like but in SWG you could do some crazy build for pvp or just create a combination of a couple different classes mixed and see what happens. I loved Pre-CU SWG, still waiting for SWGEmu.

Why are you still waiting?

I mean.. what?

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Originally posted by eric1000

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Originally posted by Drevar Why do I hate SOE/LA and the NGE?  My two mains were Master Doctor and Master Ranger/Rifleman.  Everything I worked for since the launch of the game was wiped out in a single patch.  If they had simply shut down the game I could have accepted the loss, but no...They had the audacity to tell me that all the fun I had before was "doing it wrong" and that I didn't want to be Uncle Owen and that now I should play a more "iconic" role.  Sorry assholes, your silly mind tricks don't work on me.  

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MCH / MBE here

I feel your pain :(

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As usual, the forum trolls allways show up with their ugly faces...

Back on topic.

PRE-CU vets, what are your current game? Has anyone matched PRE-CU ?