Originally posted by Thillian

Saying WoW came up with quest hub just underlines the "quality" of the article.

Darkfall also suspended sales (probably too "niche" for the author). 

Anyway, hearts and DEs are actually quest hubs. Quests and quest hubs were not removed, just transformed into automated lore-less zerg fests. 

 

 

 

This ^, I'm concerned that the OP is not only a developer, but has limited experience with GW2 and is exclusively talking about GW2 in a very uneducated fashion with regards to that product.

Hopefully no offense taken Mr.Kurn, but I don't believe you know enough about the subject to talk about it given the article at hand. Perhaps it has to do with the fact you sound as if you're in the "Honey Moon Period" with regards to GW2, and don't quite see its flaws yet?

Originally posted by grummz

Originally posted by Thillian

Saying WoW came up with quest hub just underlines the "quality" of the article.

Darkfall also suspended sales (probably too "niche" for the author). 

Anyway, hearts and DEs are actually quest hubs. Quests and quest hubs were not removed, just transformed into automated lore-less zerg fests. 

 

 

 

Hearts are DE's are not hubs. Hearts give you 2-3 tasks which all serve towards filling a bar and completion. DE's are single events. Quest hubs are like 3-8 NPC sitting around a POI that give you 8-12 quests. WoW was the first game to rely soley on quest hubs as the primary means of playing and progression (its the best XP), and really polished them and made them a consistent and dominant form of play.

 

There are several hearts that are like this within a given area. Essentially, you could take a "Zone" in GuildWars 2 to be a "Quest Hub" as it is so linear in design & laid out in plain numbers on the map to be considered otherwise.

To me it was never about the quest hub. I hated the Exclamation mark, since I loved finding out what NPCs had something to say. I would read their story and once I changed something, I would like to see what they had to say next. It would be bonus if they actually had a new quest to do.

I was a PATIENT player. The quest hubs just dumbed things down for those with attention deficit. And without being insulting, the new method of getting quests is just a further delving into babying the players. No longer do you have to try to understand the story... just walk up to a place and look at what happens. WoW created the problem (didn't even have to read the quest story), but GW2 is putting frosting on it.

Those who play GW2 without reading and just race to max level are going to be sorely disappointed as its not progression based. GW2 is a story-themepark.

Everything has its place, even the quest hub with spokes design. I hate quest hubs while progressing through content, but when I'm not progressing through content and just accumulating resources, the quest hub/spoke design is pretty optimal.

Originally posted by Caldrin

well i got bored within 2 weeks as the heart quests are some of the most boring pve i have come accross..

 

Maybe other games will incorporate some things from GW2 but i hope its not the boring quests..

 

but that at the end of the day is my opinion..

 

It's important to note that the DE's are what is supposed to be the focues of GW2 and not the hearts. But their prominence on the map certainly makes people feel that this is the primary thing they need to do. I call this the "Dominant Mode of Play" and how it is communicated to players.

For example, Firefall has a handful of quests laid out in a chain, and given to the player as soon as they create a new character. This creates a false impression that questing is what you do in Firefall, when it isnt. Firefall is meant to be more sandboxy. But because of how we presented it to the player, expectations were set about it's Dominant Mode of Play that were incorrect. 

The hearts in GW2 are quest-hubs.

Funny how people think just masking something makes it go away.

If they actually removed the hearts and made everything appear randomly in the world then we could say there are no quest hubs. Even with the group events they always appear in the same places.

Untill we get more randomness there will always be "quest-hubs".

Originally posted by lizardbones

Everything has its place, even the quest hub with spokes design. I hate quest hubs while progressing through content, but when I'm not progressing through content and just accumulating resources, the quest hub/spoke design is pretty optimal.

 

I still think a "guided" experience is still important. Quest hubs served to guide you through the content one hub at a time. GW2 has frustrated some players by not offering this type of guidance. 

Isn't it a little early to make claims like these?

Quest hubs are dead...

P2P is dead....

etc..

etc...

Originally posted by grummz

Thanks for having me. Yes, D2 had the marks as well, but both games were in development for a long time, and WoW was being developed even before D2 shipped. 

DAOC had quests, but not nearly to the level that WoW did. During WoW, the feeling was that you always had to have a stuffed quest log that never ran out, so you always had "one more thing to do" 

 

A quest hub is a quest hub. A group of quests in a given area that direct you to the next area when you finish the ones here.

I hate to break it to you and your bloated sense of self importance but you dont get to determine what makes a quest hub beyond a game you designed and implemented something you choose to call a "quest hub".

Originally posted by Sephastus

To me it was never about the quest hub. I hated the Exclamation mark, since I loved finding out what NPCs had something to say. I would read their story and once I changed something, I would like to see what they had to say next. It would be bonus if they actually had a new quest to do.

I was a PATIENT player. The quest hubs just dumbed things down for those with attention deficit. And without being insulting, the new method of getting quests is just a further delving into babying the players. No longer do you have to try to understand the story... just walk up to a place and look at what happens. WoW created the problem (didn't even have to read the quest story), but GW2 is putting frosting on it.

Those who play GW2 without reading and just race to max level are going to be sorely disappointed as its not progression based. GW2 is a story-themepark.

 

Remember EQ1 questing not that it had many quest but it had some,it had no quest markers at that time.

Hello Rah ,their is a group of orcs gathered at the buttom of the ravine .

Rah: ravine?

Go elimate the orc 

This is just a example all be it a poor example but you get the picture.

So as you see,i would have to repeat key words in the conversation to actually get the quest.Now, some may think it's tedioius but at least you are actually having a conversation and reading what the npc is saying.

Originally posted by grummz

/snip

For example, Firefall has a handful of quests laid out in a chain, and given to the player as soon as they create a new character. This creates a false impression that questing is what you do in Firefall, when it isnt. Firefall is meant to be more sandboxy. But because of how we presented it to the player, expectations were set about it's Dominant Mode of Play that were incorrect. 

This is very off-topic and probably best served for a future topic, but may I ask if you think this could be setting yourselves up for failure? It doesn't seem very best-practice to teach someone how to play a game one way, and then expect them to continue playing it another way.

But I haven't seen much of FF, so maybe I don't totally understand what you are getting at.

Originally posted by WhiteLantern

Originally posted by grummz

/snip

For example, Firefall has a handful of quests laid out in a chain, and given to the player as soon as they create a new character. This creates a false impression that questing is what you do in Firefall, when it isnt. Firefall is meant to be more sandboxy. But because of how we presented it to the player, expectations were set about it's Dominant Mode of Play that were incorrect. 

This is very off-topic and probably best served for a future topic, but may I ask if you think this could be setting yourselves up for failure? It doesn't seem very best-practice to teach someone how to play a game one way, and then expect them to continue playing it another way.

But I haven't seen much of FF, so maybe I don't totally understand what you are getting at.

Originally posted by grummz

Originally posted by WhiteLantern

Originally posted by grummz

/snip

For example, Firefall has a handful of quests laid out in a chain, and given to the player as soon as they create a new character. This creates a false impression that questing is what you do in Firefall, when it isnt. Firefall is meant to be more sandboxy. But because of how we presented it to the player, expectations were set about it's Dominant Mode of Play that were incorrect. 

This is very off-topic and probably best served for a future topic, but may I ask if you think this could be setting yourselves up for failure? It doesn't seem very best-practice to teach someone how to play a game one way, and then expect them to continue playing it another way.

But I haven't seen much of FF, so maybe I don't totally understand what you are getting at.

Yes, you are right. I was trying to say that Firefall is making a mistake by leading you to think the game is one way (by missions) when it is not. We're correcting that in our PvE update patch in beta.

Yes, you are right. I was trying to say that Firefall is making a mistake by leading you to think the game is one way (by missions) when it is not. We're correcting that in our PvE update patch in beta.

How is this model an evolution in any way?
I like what DEs bring. Hearts on the other hand.....Terrible, They are awful.

You play your personal story and are practically heralded as the next savior of the world. Everyone likes you and respects you wherever you go, in that story, you become one of the most important people in the (your) game.

Oh and while you are at it, you need to go kick bushes for birds, pick more apples, prod some cattle, kill some wasps, plug holes with rocks, scoop chickens up and put them back in their pens, protect the livestock, Feed the cows, water the corn.....

AHHH! How mind numbingly uninspiring! If I wanted the complete real life GW2 experience, I can go get a job at a local farm. And they are fer more grindy that individual quests. And the only difference is you don't have to click accept or finish buttons. Really? all that hype to save a few button clicks without any change in game play whatsoever?

If Red5 or anyone for that matter is going to adopt this model, It needs work...serious work.

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

How is this an evolution in any way?
I like what DEs bring. Hearts on the other hand.....Terrible, They are awful.

You play your personal story and are practically heralded as the next savior of the world. Everyone likes you and respects you wherever you go, in that story, you become one of the most important people in the (your) game.

Oh and while you are at it, you need to go kick bushes for birds, pick more apples, prod some cattle, kill some wasps, plug holes with rocks, scoop chickens up and put them back in their pens, protect the livestock, Feed the cows, water the corn.....

AHHH! How mind numbingly uninspiring! If I wanted the complete real life GW2 experience, I can go get a job at a local farm. And they are fer more grindy that individual quests. And the only difference is you don't have to click accept or finish buttons. Really? all that hype to save a few button clicks without any change in game play whatsoever?

If you are going to adopt this model, It needs work...serious work.

I'm hiring, but I can only pay you in "renown".

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

How is this an evolution in any way?
I like what DEs bring. Hearts on the other hand.....Terrible, They are awful.

You play your personal story and are practically heralded as the next savior of the world. Everyone likes you and respects you wherever you go, in that story, you become one of the most important people in the (your) game.

Oh and while you are at it, you need to go kick bushes for birds, pick more apples, prod some cattle, kill some wasps, plug holes with rocks, scoop chickens up and put them back in their pens, protect the livestock, Feed the cows, water the corn.....

AHHH! How mind numbingly uninspiring! If I wanted the complete real life GW2 experience, I can go get a job at a local farm. And they are fer more grindy that individual quests. And the only difference is you don't have to click accept or finish buttons. Really? all that hype to save a few button clicks without any change in game play whatsoever?

If Red5 or anyone for that matter is going to adopt this model, It needs work...serious work.

Next week on mmorpg.com  I'll be diving into how Firefall is going to approach things, and maybe it will address some of your issues, and probably open up new ones.

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

How is this model an evolution in any way?
I like what DEs bring. Hearts on the other hand.....Terrible, They are awful.

You play your personal story and are practically heralded as the next savior of the world. Everyone likes you and respects you wherever you go, in that story, you become one of the most important people in the (your) game.

Oh and while you are at it, you need to go kick bushes for birds, pick more apples, prod some cattle, kill some wasps, plug holes with rocks, scoop chickens up and put them back in their pens, protect the livestock, Feed the cows, water the corn.....

AHHH! How mind numbingly uninspiring! If I wanted the complete real life GW2 experience, I can go get a job at a local farm. And they are fer more grindy that individual quests. And the only difference is you don't have to click accept or finish buttons. Really? all that hype to save a few button clicks without any change in game play whatsoever?

If Red5 or anyone for that matter is going to adopt this model, It needs work...serious work.

I think this topic is more about how quests are presented more than anything else. So yeah activities are still the same..kill.fetch..escort.

However i still believe it is too early to make claims like these. People are just too focused on exclamation mark on the head as if that is gone suddenly questing is better.