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General Discussion  » A themepark game that requires a sandbox mentality... is this GW2's real problem?

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156 posts found
  User Deleted
9/11/12 1:50:58 AM#121
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Atlan99

Wow.

The amount of delusion in this thread is off the hook. People actually think GW2 is complicated and requires special intelligence to play. It's a casual mmo made for the casual player. It is not difficult at all and requires the least amount of effort to reach max level of an mmo I have played.

 

Again, you have misunderstood.

No one said it was complicated. No one said it required intelligence. This all was your addition. You are arguing a point that you yourself have introduced.

That's twice in this thread you have failed to grasp what's being said.

 

Several people have insinutated that GW2 is too complicated for some players, that need to be held by the hand. Go back and read some of the posts.

As far as failing to grasp, you yourself have backed off your original post, because it made absolutely no sense. Maybe it is you that fails to grasp, what you are even trying to say.

Too complicated? No. But they DO seem to struggle to recognize it's NOT WoW or SWTOR or TSW or EQ or even Tera and can't seem to adapt. You'll see a lot of people bypassing harvesting nodes (outright doing a u-turn) when they see you go for them. They rush to 'tap/tag' a veteran to get the loot. They'll dodge roll out of a white circle or sit there an eat a red circle.

It's NOT a complicated game, but a lot of people just can't seem to grasp that it's different (enough) that you can't play it like it's one of the other games I mentioned. There HAVE been discussions in /M about needing a tank, or a healer.

It happens on these forums too. It's like people wander into a KFC and order a Big Mac and then are furious they didn't get what they ordered. It was kinda the same with SWTOR. SWTOR's great sin was wasn't that it was "WoW with Lightsabers" but that it wasn't ENOUGH "WoW with Lightsabers". There's this cognitive dissonance happening. People WANT something to be different than WoW, but when they experience something that does things slightly different than WoW, they throw a hissy because "that's not the way WoW does it" and then moments later will re-iterate the criticism that "it's not really any different than WoW".

And I'm unfairly picking on WoW here. There are people who've never played WoW that exhibit this behavior too.

 

I get what the OP was trying to say. As WickedJelly pointed out, he perhaps picked inappropriate terms for his audience.

  timtrack

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 415

9/11/12 6:26:05 AM#122
Originally posted by Vesavius

 

is this GW2's real problem?

A honest and genuine question: Exactly what problem do you speak of?

  UtukuMoon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/03/11
Posts: 1109

9/11/12 6:35:23 AM#123
Originally posted by Umbrood

Not entirely sure what you are trying to say to be honest.

In the first part you say that some people are not enjoying it, but the majority seems to.

In the latter part the majority does NOT "get" it and needs to be spoonfed and they have the wrong mentality to enjoy the game?

What majority is right?

Hint:

There are no right answer!

What he is saying is: Those who are not enjoying the game the same way he is are playing it wrong.[mod edit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8ymgFyzbDo

  GoldenArrow

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/09/08
Posts: 1142

9/11/12 7:22:56 AM#124
Originally posted by timtrack
Originally posted by Vesavius

 

is this GW2's real problem?

A honest and genuine question: Exactly what problem do you speak of?

The problem is that GW2 is far too easy because of the vast amount of zerging and the extremely poor scaling of the events.

  Requiem1066

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/28/12
Posts: 274

9/11/12 7:27:24 AM#125

For some people it seems it just can't be only a game. It has to be something deep and meaningful, an epiphany that only the chosen few are able to get.

It's a game .. nothing more and tell's us more about those that have to make it something deeper, than it does about those that don't " get it ".

Guess it's a bit like those that see the face of Christ in a slice of toast :p

  Z3R01

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/08
Posts: 2459

MMO gamer since 1997

9/11/12 7:34:38 AM#126

Op you use the term sandbox when you mean non-linear...

Completely different things.

Skyrim and Stalker are non-linear, Minecraft is a sandbox.

 

With GW2 its designed in a way that people are guided from objective to objective. follow personal story, Talk to a scout, go to the hearts, take part in events as they pop up, follow the poi, vista & skill markers. 

Once everything is done you move to the next zone... 

 

As linear as linear could be tbh. No special mentalitiy required. The people that you think dont get it, actually do they just dont find it fun.

Playing: None

Waiting on: None

  sfc1971

Novice Member

Joined: 10/05/08
Posts: 423

9/11/12 7:53:15 AM#127
Originally posted by Vesavius

First, I will say... loving the game more every day. I make no excuses or bones about that. I think it is actually pretty sublime.

 

But... some people are not getting it, obviously. Not the majority I think, everyone I see in game seems to be having a great time, but there are those that are finding it not for them.

Why?

My suspicion is, simply, that GW2 is a strange thing... it is a themepark that requires you to think like a sandbox, but the problem is the vast majority of players are unable to think like you need to to properly enjoy a sandbox.

They require close guidance. They require spoon feeding of a daily schedule. Too much choice confuses and frustrates them, at which point they start crying 'bored!!'.

 

They just don't get it... maybe the game is too subtle in what it does?

 

To enjoy the game properly, I think, you need to be able to let go of what you have been conditioned with over the last few years, but I suspect a lot of folks ultimately won't be able to do that.

 

Thoughts?

Your need to read up on themepark. GW2 is the PERFECT example of a THEMEPARK MMO. Second Life is a Sandbox game. GW2 is NOT. Very few MMO's even come close. 

GW2's Dynamic Events are like a Disney parade. And when you trigger a DE by pressing a button with a gigantic orange/white icon? That is the buttons on animatronic displays. Press the button and watch the scripted action happen.

AND NO, THIS IS NOT A BAD THING! Theme parks are fun and enjoyed by millions, you just got to stop being an elitist prick about it all.

And closed guidance? You are being told by scouts where the next quests are. Little numbers beside each quest and mob tell you if you are in the right area. Each area is neatly designated with recommended level range. How much more guidance do you want?

You are aware that although a real themepark has a map, you are free to roam anywhere in that themepark? GW2 is far more on rails. Or go ahead, head into a level 20-25 area as a lvl 5 and see how long it is before you are instant-killed by a "security" guard telling you first got to through the kiddy area before you can do the teen area.

For that matter, go ahead, do a solo story quest that doesn't belong to your solo story. Skip part of your solo story. Redo a solo story instance. Can't? My my, how on rails you are.

You can't even mix your own colors.

GW2 is a themepark. A fun themepark but a themepark. People who claim it is a sandbox either have no idea what they are talking about or are scared shitless of a game that really relies totally on player content.

Oh and a final shocker. If you ever get to play in a sandbox game and you are playing some other users created content... then you are STILL IN A FUCKING THEMEPARK! Just a user created themepark. But still a themepark.

ONLY when you as a player actively creat your own adventure alone or in a group as an active creator. THEN YOUR ARE IN A SANDBOX. Calvin and Hobber, they played in a sandbox. And Calvin would be on drugs in real life.

 

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17618

9/11/12 7:58:07 AM#128
Originally posted by Vesavius
 

 

Sorry, I will clarify again.

I don't really think you ever needed to clarify. It's already clear what you are saying:

It's a themepark game that requires players to approach it differently from other themepark games. And if one applies more of a sandbox mentality of having your own goals as apposed to being led around from one area to another (main quest aside) then one might find more enjoyment.

It's debatable if they will but I essentially agree with you.

  MsGamerlady

Novice Member

Joined: 8/16/05
Posts: 168

"We can make ourselves miserable or we can make ourselves happy.The amount of work is the same."

9/11/12 8:23:19 AM#129


Originally posted by Nikkita

Originally posted by fiontar

Originally posted by Vesavius First, I will say... loving the game more every day. I make no excuses or bones about that. I think it is actually pretty sublime.   But... some people are not getting it, obviously. Not the majority I think, everyone I see in game seems to be having a great time, but there are those that are finding it not for them. Why? My suspicion is, simply, that GW2 is a strange thing... it is a themepark that requires you to think like a sandbox, but the problem is the vast majority of players are unable to think like you need to to properly enjoy a sandbox. They require close guidance. They require spoon feeding of a daily schedule. Too much choice confuses and frustrates them, at which point they start crying 'bored!!'.   They just don't get it... maybe the game is too subtle in what it does?   To enjoy the game properly, I think, you need to be able to let go of what you have been conditioned with over the last few years, but I suspect a lot of folks ultimately won't be able to do that.   Thoughts?
I agree. A lot of people have an imperfect undestanding of the themepark/sandbox spectrum, so they may not get your post, but I get it completely. The game provides just enough structure and hand holding for most people who have only played mostly linear, heavily theme parked games, but you definitely need some of the same love for non-linear play and exploration that is required for games like Skyrim, or for MMOs with a sandbox leaning. If someone can't break the linear mentality found in most themepark leaning MMOs, they may be dis-satisfied with this game. The game assumes that you will look to the guide posts (heart tasks, waypoints and PoIs) when you are lost or need a little direction, but that you will not rely on them to provide a progression path to the exclusion of more free-form exploration of the world.  
Again this 'you don't get it' BS. We get it really but what we don't get is that who are you  to tell anyone 'you are doing it wrong' or dis satisfied because you are playing the game in your own style of preference?

You guys churn a lot of imaginary BS to make your point by the way. And it is the same two or three posters every time trying to educate others on how to enjoy or have fun in GW2.

There is no right or wrong way to play GW2 and certainly you don't need to bring a certain kind of mentality. ANET has put lots of effort and love in personal stories, heart events and achievement system...who are you to tell anyone it is not needed or that they just don't get it so they are dis satisfied?

Anyone else gets annoyed by these obnoxious posts or it just me? play whatever way you want but stop telling others that it is only you or people like OP who 'get it'.


Nope, you're not the only one.

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7493

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

 
OP  9/11/12 8:56:20 AM#130
Originally posted by sfc1971
Originally posted by Vesavius

First, I will say... loving the game more every day. I make no excuses or bones about that. I think it is actually pretty sublime.

 

But... some people are not getting it, obviously. Not the majority I think, everyone I see in game seems to be having a great time, but there are those that are finding it not for them.

Why?

My suspicion is, simply, that GW2 is a strange thing... it is a themepark that requires you to think like a sandbox, but the problem is the vast majority of players are unable to think like you need to to properly enjoy a sandbox.

They require close guidance. They require spoon feeding of a daily schedule. Too much choice confuses and frustrates them, at which point they start crying 'bored!!'.

 

They just don't get it... maybe the game is too subtle in what it does?

 

To enjoy the game properly, I think, you need to be able to let go of what you have been conditioned with over the last few years, but I suspect a lot of folks ultimately won't be able to do that.

 

Thoughts?

Your need to read up on themepark. GW2 is the PERFECT example of a THEMEPARK MMO. /snipped for redundancy

 

I agree. I have stated several times in this thread that it is a themepark.

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7493

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

 
OP  9/11/12 8:57:59 AM#131
Originally posted by Sylvarii
Originally posted by Umbrood

What he is saying is: Those who are not enjoying the game the same way he is are playing it wrong. /snipped to remove trolling

 

Your interpretation is simply incorrect.

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7493

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

 
OP  9/11/12 8:59:46 AM#132
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Vesavius
 

 

Sorry, I will clarify again.

I don't really think you ever needed to clarify. It's already clear what you are saying:

It's a themepark game that requires players to approach it differently from other themepark games. And if one applies more of a sandbox mentality of having your own goals as apposed to being led around from one area to another (main quest aside) then one might find more enjoyment.

It's debatable if they will but I essentially agree with you.

 

Thanks Sov, I am glad you and a few others get what's actually being said.

  Lazarus71

Old School

Joined: 9/22/04
Posts: 991

I play the games I like and don't dwell on the ones I don't, complicated philosophy I know....

9/11/12 9:46:15 AM#133
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Vesavius
 

 

Sorry, I will clarify again.

I don't really think you ever needed to clarify. It's already clear what you are saying:

It's a themepark game that requires players to approach it differently from other themepark games. And if one applies more of a sandbox mentality of having your own goals as apposed to being led around from one area to another (main quest aside) then one might find more enjoyment.

It's debatable if they will but I essentially agree with you.

 

Thanks Sov, I am glad you and a few others get what's actually being said.

Plenty of people understood what you were saying as you made it quite clear in your op. Here is the crazy part, they just don't agree with you and made it quite clear why in thier posts wether you agree with them or not.

No signature, I don't have a pen

  Requiem1066

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/28/12
Posts: 274

9/11/12 9:48:12 AM#134
Originally posted by Lazarus71
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Vesavius
 

 

Sorry, I will clarify again.

I don't really think you ever needed to clarify. It's already clear what you are saying:

It's a themepark game that requires players to approach it differently from other themepark games. And if one applies more of a sandbox mentality of having your own goals as apposed to being led around from one area to another (main quest aside) then one might find more enjoyment.

It's debatable if they will but I essentially agree with you.

 

Thanks Sov, I am glad you and a few others get what's actually being said.

Plenty of people understood what you were saying as you made it quite clear in your op. Here is the crazy part, they just don't agree with you and made it quite clear why in thier posts wether you agree with them or not.

^ This .. Knowing what you ment and agreeing with it are two different things.

  Torgrim

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 2179

9/11/12 9:57:34 AM#135

The amount of ignorance and stupidity in this thread is stunning.

How hard is to read OP?

People get hungup on the word sandbox and start babbling about that GW2 is not a sandbox game, ofc it's not, try reading the whole OP and stop nitpicking single words to start your debate.

You dont need an IQ of 180 to understand what OP is trying to say.

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  Illyssia

Novice Member

Joined: 8/10/09
Posts: 1525

9/11/12 9:59:40 AM#136
I can't really see how you think GW2 is sandbox at all. Having played the game it is themepark, you go from ride to ride. If you go to far in PvE for example the mobs insta kill you. So a very traditional mmo as near as I can tell.
  Nikkita

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/25/10
Posts: 830

9/11/12 10:05:14 AM#137
Originally posted by Torgrim

The amount of ignorance and stupidity in this thread is stunning.

How hard is to read OP?

People get hungup on the word sandbox and start babbling about that GW2 is not a sandbox game, ofc it's not, try reading the whole OP and stop nitpicking single words to start your debate.

You dont need an IQ of 180 to understand what OP is trying to say.

This again...

People understand what he is saying and they are disagreeing with him. Disagreeing doesn't mean 'they don't get it'. Stop being so patronizing please.


Bite Me

  Torgrim

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 2179

9/11/12 10:24:07 AM#138
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by Torgrim

The amount of ignorance and stupidity in this thread is stunning.

How hard is to read OP?

People get hungup on the word sandbox and start babbling about that GW2 is not a sandbox game, ofc it's not, try reading the whole OP and stop nitpicking single words to start your debate.

You dont need an IQ of 180 to understand what OP is trying to say.

This again...

People understand what he is saying and they are disagreeing with him. Disagreeing doesn't mean 'they don't get it'. Stop being so patronizing please.

 

I've read thrue the whole thread It seems you haven't with that kind of respons.

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  Stx11

Novice Member

Joined: 11/28/09
Posts: 420

9/11/12 10:42:55 AM#139
Originally posted by Z3R01

With GW2 its designed in a way that people are guided from objective to objective. follow personal story, Talk to a scout, go to the hearts, take part in events as they pop up, follow the poi, vista & skill markers. 

Once everything is done you move to the next zone... 

 

As linear as linear could be tbh. No special mentalitiy required. The people that you think dont get it, actually do they just dont find it fun.

Your post is a perfect example of the misconceptions people have about the game that the OP was talking about.

Were you aware that Hearts were added late in Beta because testers complained they didn't know what to do or where to go? That the game originally didn't have them at all and was designed and conceived of as a "free roamer" where you just wandered the zone, explored, and participated in what was happening around you in the world?

...and that is still the "optimal" way to approach the game and the design?

It's not the "only" way. Different people have different tastes so "following the Hearts" will work and some might be very happy with that.

The OP's post was targeted at people who are following the Hearts but not happy with it. It wasn't for the trolls who have picked up this meme and just use it to attack the game. It wasn't for people who are having fun following the Hearts. It wasn't even for people who decided they don't like the game and have gone back to their game of choice.

The post was for people who actually do want to enjoy the game but aren't and are playing "follow the Hearts" instead of just wandering. Once again:

http://www.guildwars2hub.com/features/interviews/dynamic-events-dev-journal-colin-johanson

One of the lead designers explaining how the design works. The last few paragraphs are directly pertinent to this discussion.

A Zone isn't "done" at 100% Map Completion. In some sense in this game zones are never "done" - the design supports playing in a zone as long as you are having fun and moving on when you feel like it. That is a very different design than we've seen in a Themepark in a very long time.

Your post actually proves the OP's point. Regardless of whether you enjoy it or not... you didn't "get it."

  Muntz

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/09/09
Posts: 298

9/11/12 10:49:48 AM#140
Originally posted by Lazarus71
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Vesavius
 

 

Sorry, I will clarify again.

I don't really think you ever needed to clarify. It's already clear what you are saying:

It's a themepark game that requires players to approach it differently from other themepark games. And if one applies more of a sandbox mentality of having your own goals as apposed to being led around from one area to another (main quest aside) then one might find more enjoyment.

It's debatable if they will but I essentially agree with you.

 

Thanks Sov, I am glad you and a few others get what's actually being said.

Plenty of people understood what you were saying as you made it quite clear in your op. Here is the crazy part, they just don't agree with you and made it quite clear why in thier posts wether you agree with them or not.

I understood from your title, however, you used the load term "sandbox"  It's a term that can't be defined but will be emotionally defended to the death as meaning something that isn't what you mean.

The idea is sound though, the game does provide a frame work that can guid you around but it doesn't have to. I'm not saying that your playing the game wrong but you really can't experience what it  has to offer without stepping outside of that. 

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