Originally posted by TheScavenger

PvP system like EVE. Sandbox PvP, full deathmatch games...are more like deathmatch fps mmo games, but extremely badly done. I want something like EVE, that hs very good PvP mechanics.

 

Alliances, factions, "safer" areas (and not just cities)...protected by very strong security, the stronger and more numerous they get the closer to "civilization" you get. But you can still be killed.

Full loot, everyone killable, scams legal...in EVE, scamming is rampant. I've made SO much money by scamming people, earn enough every month to play for free (on 3 accounts). I then suicide gank their ship and come with an alt and take their stuff...so I get even more stuff. This makes it hardcore, it makes it a sandbox...it makes it like how the real world is. It is REALISM.

 

Before you say that is a bad thing, it isn't. It makes the players stronger, learn from their mistake...it makes the game harder. It is a huge part of EVE, and is even legal. It makes for very interesting stories.

 

I want to be able to hijack a corp from inside, take it down...corporate espionage. Just like in the real world.

 

That above, is alone, what makes sandbox games (like EVE), WAY more exciting and tougher and REAL realism than themepark MMOs. This is why we like it.

 

Other sandbox features that aren't really in...is a living world, that evolves not only from player action (which it should), but npc, environment, natural disasters etc). Ryzom does this, but not to a really big extent. Seasons change how the game looks...animals migrate. But it feels too...scripted.

 

Take a space game. No space game has huge natural disasters. What about asteroids or a meteor hitting a planet (effecting the economy around that planet), and having it be visible from space? What about a meteor shower going by and damaging your ship? Why is space so...empty...when in reality, there is a lot more going on in space. What if a black hole opens and takes out a bunch of galaxies? A permanent effect on the universe. Happens all the time. What about suns super novaing? That happens all the time too. The only interesting space game is X3 Terran Conflict, because it at least feels busy and not so empty...still not great though...

 

This would work in any space game. But, like EVE should have npc ships travelling to planets/moons/stations etc...it would make the game feel a lot more alive. Feels kind of...well...really...dead. In terms of atmosphere (heh). Maybe not sandbox specific...but it would add a nice touch to a sandbox space game, or any space game.

 

So more specific sandbox features. EVE does this pretty well, but could be better...but a better way to create an empire. Now here, I'm kind of out of ideas for what COULD be done. But, maybe it needs more variety in what you can build...hirable npc mercenaries...something. I don't know. Maybe even an RTS mechanic, that would be rather unique. Something like EVE, mixed with a rts, with a Spore-style galaxy. Even in 0.0, I never really felt the "empire" aspect of it...and I was in the Goons...outside a massive amount of war and defending territories...it...something was missing to feel like an "empire"...now that I bring it up, can't really put my finger to it...maybe not fully fleshed out?

 

Anyway...just some things that make a good sandbox game. Really, EVE is the best one out right now and only one worth playing. So, take EVE...improve it a lot...add a lot more atmosphere...maybe even an RTS element...something...to make a better empire.

 

I guess this turned into more of an EVE fanboy thread x_x...not meant to. But it is only good sandbox MMO out, so I guess it does a lot of things right already.

This may be what you and many sandboxers like yourself are looking for but is certainly not what I and many sandboxers like myself are looking for.

Not interested in PvP really at all.  I don't mind if it's in games, but in my game I want it consensual, not FFA.

No interest at all in looting other people.  No interest in scams.  Sorry but this sounds like a horrible game.  It doesn't make the players stronger, IMO it makes the game weaker. 

Natural disasters - good.  Living world - idea is good, but it too vague a term and needs much more definition. 

IMO Ryzom is a horrible sandbox game.  All it is is fighting and crafting in the dirt and scheduling a fight for a resource generator farm thingy.  All crafting is the same, all fighting and magic styles are the same.  You can customize stats but there are onlya couple dozen types of armor.  Housing is instanced, can't even decorate. No way to significantly impact the world at all. 

Don't really like space games.  So far anyway.

For me the best sandbox games involve a way to play co-operatively with people.  That could involve pvp or just be invovled with crafting / terraforming.  Crafting has to be huge with customization (I don't beleive this means no dropped loot, give the adventures some excitement as well), housing, city building, farming, terraforming, animal raising, herding.  Make games of it like in ATITD where special combinations at special times in the lunar cycle produce unique results.  Fully customizable and usefull housing -  acombination of Istaria where it's in the world and you can pretty much build any structure you want, and CoH where the inside is fully customizable, or maybe like in EQ2 where it is brick and board housing. 

Group quests/events to open up new areas.  The only dungeon in Istaria was just an old mine that we found, we then had to dig it out and finish building the structures before we could enter and play in it. 

For expansions instead of buy a box and get the content, why not do it the way Istaira did.  That is roll it up in the story.  You had to build the bridge to the area then rescue the race from the evil creatures holding them...

All wrapped up in tons of quests.  (Yes sandbox and have tons of quests too) and great fluid combat.

With flight.

That is my ideal sandbox.

Originally posted by MMOman101

Originally posted by TheScavenger

 scams legal...in EVE, 

I then suicide gank their ship and come with an alt and take their stuff...

.it makes it like how the real world is. It is REALISM.

I want to be able to hijack a corp from inside, take it down...corporate espionage. Just like in the real world.

What world do you live in?

Scams are not legal.  People go to jail.

Suicide gank and get stuff?  That is not real.  Suicide gets you nothing but dead.

When was the last time corporate espionage took down a company?

I cannot tell if you are stupid or childish.  My bet is a little of each. 

True story.

Which one is more likely:

• That no "huge market" exists for sandbox MMOs or...
• ...every single major developer hasn't noticed the elephant in the room.

Occam's razor is a friend.

Originally posted by Quirhid

Which one is more likely:

• That no "huge market" exists for sandbox MMOs or...
• ...every single major developer hasn't noticed the elephant in the room.

Occam's razor is a friend.

Real life is the biggest sandbox ever. If people didn't want to play they have pleanty of option to get out. Seeing as the worlds population is growing, I think maybe... there could be a virtual market for it too.

Originally posted by Quirhid

Which one is more likely:

• That no "huge market" exists for sandbox MMOs or...
• ...every single major developer hasn't noticed the elephant in the room.

Occam's razor is a friend.

Interestingly, Occam's razor was created as a tool against the very facets of human psychology that would make option 2 more likely.

Originally posted by Trionicus

Originally posted by Quirhid

Which one is more likely:

• That no "huge market" exists for sandbox MMOs or...
• ...every single major developer hasn't noticed the elephant in the room.

Occam's razor is a friend.

Real life is the biggest sandbox ever. If people didn't want to play they have pleanty of option to get out. Seeing as the worlds population is growing, I think maybe... there could be a virtual market for it too.

Whoa, this took a dark turn; I didn't know we were making jokes about suicide.

Originally posted by KaosProphet

Originally posted by Quirhid

Which one is more likely:

• That no "huge market" exists for sandbox MMOs or...
• ...every single major developer hasn't noticed the elephant in the room.

Occam's razor is a friend.

Interestingly, Occam's razor was created as a tool against the very facets of human psychology that would make option 2 more likely.

So... Basically you know better than the ones who do this for a living? I find it highly unlikely.

Scammers = thieving, no-class, no-skill people that haven't the ability to get ahead except at someone else's expense. If any game encourages scammers then it may as well encourage account hacking, operate a cash shop that incentivizes card-carrying, fragile-egoed players to purchase over-powered equipment, and provides quests that compel players to prey on the weak. Yeah, how long would a game world like that survive? LOL ... but I'm sure the folks at Big Point are working on such a model as we speak.

I guess I'm a carebear -- I've never enjoyed beating up lesser players, and I don't particularly care to be preyed upon by someone with a bigger wallet or whom, by mere circumstance (read: played in the game for much longer and has better gear) is stronger than me. Consequently, PvP means very little to me when I select a game. Mostly, what I want is:

1. A realistic game experience -- I'm quite tired of elves, werewolves, vampires, and dancing bears. Give me real guns, bows, knives, swords, etc., and skip all the BS magic and other fantacy accoutrements. It's all just become too cliche.
2. No more tanks, dps'rs, or healers. I don't mind that some players might have heavier armor (or flack jackets/bulletproof vests), but such gear should have a cost in the context of reduced mobility and stamina, but wearing heavier armor should not automatically mean they hit for a lesser amount; I also don't mind the notion of a healer, but I'd rather see that function from the context of applying some sort of real-time battle dressing where the recipient does not come back at full strength; nor does being a "medical" specialist necessarily mean the healer can't also use a weapon as effectively as others. And no revives -- if you're in a squad and killed you're dead, period. The latter, I think, would compel players to actually think about what they're doing and, God forbid, eschew showboating and work within the group's capabilities and limitations.
3. No dragons or other near invincible mythical beasts as bosses. Give me honest to goodness challenges. If the setting is Medieval Europe, then I want wolves that fight effectively as a pack, bears, human AI foes that die and react to changing circumstances. I also want more non-boss instances that rely on teamwork, patience, and mental acuity to accomplish.
4. For routine quests, it doesn't need to be totally about killing X number of something or conveying some BS object from one npc to the next. More riddles (vis a vis TSW) and how about having to use a map/compass to get from one point to the next, where rivers, forests, and other terrain features are real obstacles.
5. No flying around with elf wings, on magical horses, or other BS creatures. And if aircraft are provided, make me have to learn to use the thing and let me crash if I screw up.
6. No cash shop items that give any player an advantage. I want a game that absolutely incentivizes players to work for their gear.
7. No leveling. I want to get faster/stronger/more proficient with any given weapon through study and training. I'm envisioning something like THE RANGERS APPRENTICE, where players serve apprenticeships or attend battleschools to achieve even modicum level skills, where cunning, stamina, dexterity, tactical thinking, proficiency with a weapon, and ability to act as a medic comes from a combination of study, physical training, and practice; where any difficulty of quest can be taken at any time, but where success is more secure with a strong foundation in the aforementioned. In short, I do NOT want a game where a toon's proficiency is dependent upon how many of this or that they've killed. And no reward for leveling up in a gawdawful hurry -- players shouldn't be forced to "attend" schools or apprenticeships, but they should suffer long-term disadvantages for not having done so.
8. I also want a game where I don't have to be a fighter of any sort. I'd like to have freedom to pursue life as some sort of merchant, miner, farmer, manufacturer, holy person, musician, doctor, or teacher. Of course, if I don't fight I should be at the mercy of the environment and have to pay for the services of fighters to keep myself and livelihood safe.
9. Players must need to eat, sleep, be clothed, armed, and posses tools (if they're not fighters). All players must have some downtime for recreation and/or spiritual rejuvenation -- this will create the need for non-fighting players and will drive a thriving in-game economy and growth of local communities.
10. The game must conform to the period -- Medieval fighters don't have airplanes and machineguns; likewise, modern-era fighters aren't running around on horses or wielding broadswords.

Originally posted by MMOman101

Originally posted by TheScavenger

 scams legal...in EVE, 

I then suicide gank their ship and come with an alt and take their stuff...

.it makes it like how the real world is. It is REALISM.

I want to be able to hijack a corp from inside, take it down...corporate espionage. Just like in the real world.

What world do you live in?

Scams are not legal.  People go to jail.

Aren't you cute for believing that.

You only go to jail for scamming small amounts in RL. Scam more than a few million and you're a "job creator".

Originally posted by Quirhid

Which one is more likely:

• That no "huge market" exists for sandbox MMOs or...
• ...every single major developer hasn't noticed the elephant in the room.

Occam's razor is a friend.

So is Dilbert:

PHB: "If your idea is so good, why aren't our competitors already doing it?"

In short, the entertainment industry, of which the MMO industry is a subsector, has a proven, well documented and increasing tendency to do what's already being done.

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by KaosProphet

Originally posted by Quirhid

Which one is more likely:

• That no "huge market" exists for sandbox MMOs or...
• ...every single major developer hasn't noticed the elephant in the room.

Occam's razor is a friend.

Interestingly, Occam's razor was created as a tool against the very facets of human psychology that would make option 2 more likely.

So... Basically you know better than the ones who do this for a living? I find it highly unlikely.

What makes you think I don't do this for a living?

Edit:  should also point out at least one of the major developers has finally noticed the elephant.  Just nobody likes or trusts him these days.

How is what the OP mentioned a sandbox game. It is strictly a PvP game, he does know what sandbox means? Options to play your character in a world the way you want to play. Sandbox games fail because they only focus on PvP and nothing on the rest of the game play that should be in a sandbox game. Look at DF great PvP game had potential to be a great MMO but they only focused on PvP and not only that zerg PvP. Other games have been the same. A true sandbox game would have a balance with PvE and PvP.

Why do people keep referring to DayZ like it's an MMO?  It's an FPS mod like counterstrike or TF.

I have yet to hear anything to convince me that games like DayZ or minecraft could be converted into MMOs.

Originally posted by Nikkita
I love EVE but my dream sandbox MMO would be UO with latest graphic engine. 

same here.

It is a travesty that nobody has re-created UO on a midetn engine since 1999. That and the fact that no one made a Stalker MMO :( (dayz is getting there, but it is not exactly it).

Originally posted by Malcanis

Originally posted by MMOman101

Originally posted by TheScavenger

 scams legal...in EVE, 

I then suicide gank their ship and come with an alt and take their stuff...

.it makes it like how the real world is. It is REALISM.

I want to be able to hijack a corp from inside, take it down...corporate espionage. Just like in the real world.

What world do you live in?

Scams are not legal.  People go to jail.

Aren't you cute for believing that.

You only go to jail for scamming small amounts in RL. Scam more than a few million and you're a "job creator".

go tell that to Bernard Madoff...

All the varied responses in this thread illustrate why it's so difficult to create a sandbox game that is going to appeal to a wide audience.  The title of this thread is the sandbox game that "we" sandboxers want, and yet there are so many dissenting opinions that you can see it's very difficult to create a sandbox game that is going to appeal to a broad spectrum of people.

You can hardly get a consensus of if the game should have PvP or not and then there is a whole debate about how realistic the PvP should be and that's just one aspect of the game. 

Originally posted by KaosProphet

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by KaosProphet

Originally posted by Quirhid

Which one is more likely:

• That no "huge market" exists for sandbox MMOs or...
• ...every single major developer hasn't noticed the elephant in the room.

Occam's razor is a friend.

Interestingly, Occam's razor was created as a tool against the very facets of human psychology that would make option 2 more likely.

So... Basically you know better than the ones who do this for a living? I find it highly unlikely.

What makes you think I don't do this for a living?

Edit:  should also point out at least one of the major developers has finally noticed the elephant.  Just nobody likes or trusts him these days.

To be honest, no I don't think you are a game developer. I don't think no noteworthy developer thinks like that. It is fine to be devoted to your cause, but when it reaches religious proportions it stops being beneficial.