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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

PvE & Crafting  » Dynamic Events? Really?

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43 posts found
  CyclopsSlayer

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/04
Posts: 532

 
OP  9/10/12 12:11:06 PM#1

First off, for the most part I am enjoying GW2, rather surprised at that.  A few minor issues here and there, but the one that is makig me gag is unfortunately one of their core mechanics; Dynamic Events.

 

First off, anything you can nearly set your watch by, has a known trigger point, no divergence in followup events, well that is NOT worthy of the name Dynamic.

Take the Caledon Forest newbie Mosquito event, the Kessex Hills 'Fire Fissure' event, these happen about every 10 minutes, day in, day out. There are known event 'chains' where people just go from one to the next, to the next, back to the first, endlessly. XP, Coin, Karma coming out of their ears, lacking skill points and map completion true, but in the best of the Karma gear and staging for Dungeons and WvW the easy way.

 

Secondly, there could be a tiny bit of variation! A set map area has one event and one only it seems, there might be closely adjacent events. But a Fort for example will only ever spawn 1 event, not 1 of a series, or one of a set, 1 event and 1 only.

As well, follow on events always follow a set chain, A>B>C>D, never A>C>D>B or heaven forbid A>B>G>T. If the path is going to be fixed, just make it one long single event.

 

Lastly, Completion rewards. They have got work on this system. DPS is all that matters in a kill event, support means next to nothing. 

As well, what were they thinking.. I have more than once gotten a medal for no reason at all. Just a bit ago I waypointed to an area, started running towards an event just as it ended, fought nothing, collected nothing, turned in nothing, did NOTHING, and yet the event saw fit to award me a GOLD completion? Someone dropped a line or two of code there...

 

I still do all the events as I come across them.

  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

9/10/12 12:14:04 PM#2
They get more in depth at high levels but yeah...for some it may be a bit misleading on what they expected DEs were actually going to be like.

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  Pouf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/07/06
Posts: 340

----
How can you kill someone who has no life?
---

9/10/12 12:16:36 PM#3

Yea this is true, but this is also the community fault.

 

Try to find a way to explain how YOU would do something more DYNAMIC in term of event. 

  1. Longer respawn : This would be crap for a lot of players who plays casually, they would miss a lot of the event
  2. Bigger event chain that last longer : Give the game time, they will certainly expand in that direction or they will crash
I know what you mean, i do event loops in Orr and yes it's not dynamic at all, but as a programmer i understand what problems they are facing and it's kinda hard to make something dynamic in a MMO where thousands of players logs at different times where some plays for an hour a day MAX and some 12... 
 
I personally play a lot and loops are boring, My gf is level 40, she still played quite some, and isnt even aware of that yet because she does hearts and events that spawns near her..
 
 
SWTOR was a fail, and the last planet with the pvp ( cant remember the name ) had a great concept, but then again players found a way to bypass it...  
 
If you want we can try to find a way to create something "DYNAMIC" that would work for everyone. And Even GW2 would probably listen to that.
  Nikkita

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/25/10
Posts: 830

9/10/12 12:17:35 PM#4
Originally posted by Wickedjelly
They get more in depth at high levels but yeah...for some it may be a bit misleading on what they expected DEs were actually going to be like.

But that is the problem. Why not make them in depth at low levels? it gives a very bad and misleading impression to people. I thought the same way during beta but something told me to keep pushing on and that things will keep better. And they did.

I don't know why MMO devs keep doing this same mistake in every MMO. Why not make lower level content as interesting as higher ones?

I was in Diessa Plateau and people were farming cow race event like no tomorrow because it was triggering every 10 to 15 mins. And also the one where you kill the giant and protect fireworks from seperatist.

The word dynamic goes out of the window.

It is the same old MMO problem where you have to tell players 'hey things will get better past lvl X..keep playing'. 


Bite Me

  ironhelix

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/08
Posts: 465

9/10/12 12:17:44 PM#5

Yeah, they should have just called them "quest hubs", because that's what they are. You just don't have to click on the guy with a question mark over his head.

Full disclosure: I am loving the game anyway, but it's not the MMO revolution it's being sold as.

  Pouf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/07/06
Posts: 340

----
How can you kill someone who has no life?
---

9/10/12 12:20:01 PM#6
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by Wickedjelly
They get more in depth at high levels but yeah...for some it may be a bit misleading on what they expected DEs were actually going to be like.

But that si the problem. Why not make them in depth at low levels? it gives a very abd and misleading impression to people. I thought the same way during beta but somethign told me to keep pushing on that things will keep better. And they did.

I don't know why MMO devs keep doing this same mistake in every MMO. Why not make lower level content as interesting as higher ones? i was in Diessa Plateau and people were farming cow race event like no tomorrow because it was triggering every 10 to 15 mins.

Thats the Problem... It's a enterprise decision and yes it's bad for a player. But did you even checked any "old" MMOs? 95% or more of the population is CAP level.. They must provide more content there.

 

Just check gw2.. so many at cap already....

 

Games takes sooo long to develop, and trust me it's not because programmer or event designer or whoever is slacking up. It takes A LOT  of time for a FEW hours of gameplay.

 

Any programmer at NCSoft can probably program a full SNES game in a matter of days nowadays.. They arent bad lol

  tixylix

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 1109

9/10/12 12:21:48 PM#7
They shoulda just called them Public quests, only I found them more fun than the DEs I did in GW2.
  Nikkita

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/25/10
Posts: 830

9/10/12 12:22:41 PM#8
Originally posted by Pouf
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by Wickedjelly
They get more in depth at high levels but yeah...for some it may be a bit misleading on what they expected DEs were actually going to be like.

But that si the problem. Why not make them in depth at low levels? it gives a very abd and misleading impression to people. I thought the same way during beta but somethign told me to keep pushing on that things will keep better. And they did.

I don't know why MMO devs keep doing this same mistake in every MMO. Why not make lower level content as interesting as higher ones? i was in Diessa Plateau and people were farming cow race event like no tomorrow because it was triggering every 10 to 15 mins.

Thats the Problem... It's a enterprise decision and yes it's bad for a player. But did you even checked any "old" MMOs? 95% or more of the population is CAP level.. They must provide more content there.

 

Just check gw2.. so many at cap already....

 

Games takes sooo long to develop, and trust me it's not because programmer or event designer or whoever is slacking up. It takes A LOT  of time for a FEW hours of gameplay.

 

Any programmer at NCSoft can probably program a full SNES game in a matter of days nowadays.. They arent bad lol

But content in GW2 works in different way since everything downscales to your level. That is why i feel odd that devs didn't put same amount of depth in lower level dynamic events. In other MMOS i understand but GW2 is not like other MMOS where lower level content becoms obsolete once you hit level cap.

 


Bite Me

  TalulaRose

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 407

9/10/12 12:24:00 PM#9

I call it flash mob raiding with 2 mechanics. Don't stand in the red circle and dps. 3 mechanics, rez the fallen so they can continue the zerg.

 

People say GW2 doesn't have raids but I beg to differ. GW2 doesn't have organized raids. 10-20+people all working together to accomplish a common goal seems like a raid to me.

  Pouf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/07/06
Posts: 340

----
How can you kill someone who has no life?
---

9/10/12 12:25:09 PM#10
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by Pouf
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by Wickedjelly
They get more in depth at high levels but yeah...for some it may be a bit misleading on what they expected DEs were actually going to be like.

But that si the problem. Why not make them in depth at low levels? it gives a very abd and misleading impression to people. I thought the same way during beta but somethign told me to keep pushing on that things will keep better. And they did.

I don't know why MMO devs keep doing this same mistake in every MMO. Why not make lower level content as interesting as higher ones? i was in Diessa Plateau and people were farming cow race event like no tomorrow because it was triggering every 10 to 15 mins.

Thats the Problem... It's a enterprise decision and yes it's bad for a player. But did you even checked any "old" MMOs? 95% or more of the population is CAP level.. They must provide more content there.

 

Just check gw2.. so many at cap already....

 

Games takes sooo long to develop, and trust me it's not because programmer or event designer or whoever is slacking up. It takes A LOT  of time for a FEW hours of gameplay.

 

Any programmer at NCSoft can probably program a full SNES game in a matter of days nowadays.. They arent bad lol

But content in GW2 works in different way since everything downscales to your level. That is why i feel odd that devs didn't put same amount of depth in lower level dynamic events. In other MMOS i understand but GW2 is not like other MMOS when it comes to lower level content becoming obsolete once you hit level cap.

 

Yes downscaling works, But sincerely i'm 80 and I love to downscale to my GF's level and play with her. It is still less rewarding for me than level 80events tho. And This is almost another debate, since if the reward would be equal and downscaling perfect, there wouldnt even be a reason or an advantage to be level 80. And without this vertical progression, I wouldnt play a game a lot.. 

 

When i do not want to feel the progression difference between 2 characters, I'm not aiming at MMO, and I hope it wont change . IMHO

  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2886

I actually still like MMORPGs

9/10/12 12:25:45 PM#11

Ya the DEs are more like quests you just wait for. Its still a lot of fun, but not nearly as exciting as the pre game hype made it out to be.

Also the rewards thing, I agree. It really stinks to do a whole boss fight and not die once, only to get a silver medal.

  nilden

Novice Member

Joined: 4/26/05
Posts: 886

9/10/12 12:27:46 PM#12
By Dynamic they ment completly scripted and predictable.

How to post links. Check it Archeage
LoveMinecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

  Tamanous

Elite Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 1695

9/10/12 12:29:02 PM#13

Well as long as people see them for what they really are. This is why I cannot get into games with such obvious mechanical layers on top of their so called living worlds. Rift events got old fast and I could barely player more than a handful of de's in GW2 before becoming disinterested. Granted this is just me but there is a huge reason why I cannot stand these mechanics. They fall into the absolute #1 issue I have with video games:

 

- The total lack of AI evolution.

 

The reason why we see these gimics in games these days of because of the lack of ncp AI development. Mobs have been stupid since the invention of video games. It is the main reason why mmo's are stunted and require marketing gimics to trick players into thinking the world of an mmo is a living, breathing place. I do not need de's or rifts opening up or instanced/phased  story arcs. I would like to actually log into a world where the npc's react and act out of their own interests and goals beyond the 20' patrol path around their spawn point. If this is done within an mmo it will be the greatest game ever created.

You stay sassy!

  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

9/10/12 12:29:15 PM#14
Originally posted by Nikkita

But that is the problem. Why not make them in depth at low levels? it gives a very bad and misleading impression to people. I thought the same way during beta but somethign told me to keep pushing on that things will keep better. And they did.

I don't know why MMO devs keep doing this same mistake in every MMO. Why not make lower level content as interesting as higher ones?

I was in Diessa Plateau and people were farming cow race event like no tomorrow because it was triggering every 10 to 15 mins. And also the one where you kill the giant and protect fireworks from seperatist.

The word dynamic goes out of the window.

It is the same old MMO problem where you have to tell players 'hey things will get better past lvl X..keep playing'. 

 You'll get no argument from me. Not really defending the game. I have made it quite well known how lame, uncreative, and dull the human zones are in relation to atmosphere and DEs.I suppose some would say it is to get folks used to the concept. Not sure I agree and frankly I think they should be more detailed and have more depth to them so people do realize how interesting DEs can be.

Some of them happen so frequently it is hilarious as well. Then again they are a bit sparse in some areas so if they weren't so frequent then you would have people run into issues leveling wise. Which already exists to some degree in some zones at lower levels. There simply aren't enough in some areas and they certainly lack any meat to them for the most part.

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  Nikkita

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/25/10
Posts: 830

9/10/12 12:29:25 PM#15
Originally posted by Pouf

Yes downscaling works, But sincerely i'm 80 and I love to downscale to my GF's level and play with her. It is still less rewarding for me than level 80events tho. And This is almost another debate, since if the reward would be equal and downscaling perfect, there wouldnt even be a reason or an advantage to be level 80. And without this vertical progression, I wouldnt play a game a lot.. 

When i do not want to feel the progression difference between 2 characters, I'm not aiming at MMO, and I hope it wont change . IMHO

All i am saying is that if you want to keep downscaling mechanic to make sure that lower level content is not obsolete make them as deep and dynamic as higher level zones. So that new players don't have to wait till X level to really understand that there is lot more depth to it.

 


Bite Me

  Stx11

Novice Member

Joined: 11/28/09
Posts: 420

9/10/12 12:31:24 PM#16
Originally posted by Nikkita

But content in GW2 works in different way since everything downscales to your level. That is why i feel odd that devs didn't put same amount of depth in lower level dynamic events. In other MMOS i understand but GW2 is not like other MMOS where lower level content becoms obsolete once you hit level cap.

They actually had longer timers with chains in ealier Betas...

...and people complained there was nothing to do and not enough going on :P

I think the whole game will improve in this respect over time if they are able to double the number of DEs in the game like they want to. There is actually plenty to do and see if you wander around and don't stay in a single zone for a long time, but there won't be "enough" ever for certain players just due to the sheer amount of time they play.

The best thing though... if you get bored and take a break from the game you don't need to resub and you won't be 3 "Gear Tiers" behind to see the new stuff.

  dariuszp

Novice Member

Joined: 1/19/12
Posts: 187

9/10/12 12:34:14 PM#17
Originally posted by CyclopsSlay

First off, for the most part I am enjoying GW2, rather surprised at that.  A few minor issues here and there, but the one that is makig me gag is unfortunately one of their core mechanics; Dynamic Events.

 

First off, anything you can nearly set your watch by, has a known trigger point, no divergence in followup events, well that is NOT worthy of the name Dynamic.

Take the Caledon Forest newbie Mosquito event, the Kessex Hills 'Fire Fissure' event, these happen about every 10 minutes, day in, day out. There are known event 'chains' where people just go from one to the next, to the next, back to the first, endlessly. XP, Coin, Karma coming out of their ears, lacking skill points and map completion true, but in the best of the Karma gear and staging for Dungeons and WvW the easy way.

 

Secondly, there could be a tiny bit of variation! A set map area has one event and one only it seems, there might be closely adjacent events. But a Fort for example will only ever spawn 1 event, not 1 of a series, or one of a set, 1 event and 1 only.

As well, follow on events always follow a set chain, A>B>C>D, never A>C>D>B or heaven forbid A>B>G>T. If the path is going to be fixed, just make it one long single event.

 

Lastly, Completion rewards. They have got work on this system. DPS is all that matters in a kill event, support means next to nothing. 

As well, what were they thinking.. I have more than once gotten a medal for no reason at all. Just a bit ago I waypointed to an area, started running towards an event just as it ended, fought nothing, collected nothing, turned in nothing, did NOTHING, and yet the event saw fit to award me a GOLD completion? Someone dropped a line or two of code there...

 

I still do all the events as I come across them.

They are dynamic because they are changing and happen in open world. They are triggered or happen over from time to time. They are goin A>B>D>D but there are variations if some of this fail. As example defeinding village turn quickly into putting down the fires because we failed at previous stage.

DPS is all that matters but you should know that there is no pure support/control class in this game. All of  us are quite universal. So go wild when you have to and help when you need to.

And about that medal you got - it was bronze right ? Check amount of exp/karma/gold you got from it. It's probably near the bottom. You probably did something by chance.

  tiglie

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/17/10
Posts: 30

9/10/12 12:34:51 PM#18
Originally posted by Wickedjelly
They get more in depth at high levels but yeah...for some it may be a bit misleading on what they expected DEs were actually going to be like.

By more in depth, are you referring to the bigger zerg of people needed to roll their face across the keyboard?  

The PvE content and mechanics in this game are beyond horrid.  Yes, I'm 80, yes I've done a good bit of the dungeons, yes it's god awful.  Generally speaking you overload on ranged, maybe.......just maybe, do some condition cleaning (even though it's easier to just let it run it's course and rez up after the downed state), and mash away.  Very dull, very dumb.  

I mean the final boss in story mode Arah.......the climatic end boss in the game..............lands on a fing building, you take control of a cannon, and spam the number 2 button for 5 minutes.  That's it.  Honestly???

 

*edit* i know, i know, i turned it into a dungeon rant......but it's one and the same.  The DE's are even more god awful mechanics then these scripted instanced dungeon encounters.  There is zero depth to anything here.

  Pouf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/07/06
Posts: 340

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How can you kill someone who has no life?
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9/10/12 12:34:54 PM#19
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by Pouf

Yes downscaling works, But sincerely i'm 80 and I love to downscale to my GF's level and play with her. It is still less rewarding for me than level 80events tho. And This is almost another debate, since if the reward would be equal and downscaling perfect, there wouldnt even be a reason or an advantage to be level 80. And without this vertical progression, I wouldnt play a game a lot.. 

When i do not want to feel the progression difference between 2 characters, I'm not aiming at MMO, and I hope it wont change . IMHO

All i am saying is that if you want to keep downscaling mechanic to make sure that lower level content is not obsolete make them as deep and dynamic as higher level zones. So that new players don't have to wait till X level to really understand that there is lot more depth to it.

 

Yea Well I personally don't think it improves a lot through the game.. Some says that because higher level DE's you need some sort of intelligence to complete them, but nothing hard. If you have let's say a 7yo brain, you can understand level 80's dynamic. Really...

Hardest DE in my opinion is still that level 8-10 fire elemental

 

And i'm a quite hardcore level 80 ( when i'm not at work or with gf lol )

  sonoggi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/22/09
Posts: 1151

9/10/12 12:37:18 PM#20
Guys, De's are the most complex and innovative pave mechanic ever developed for an mmo. Fact. Cut them some slack (yes I said it) because the scaling and bugs will get ironed out, and most importantly the subsequent De's done by the live team and in xpacs will just get more and more epic.

De's with all their flaws are still the best pve I've ever played in an mmo. De's are also ages ahead of skyrim's system which is good enough one would hope.
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