Seriously lets think about this for 1 second guys. First of all why does everything have to copy from wow, lets make it an example it took wow to introduce random dungeon finder, so other mmos ahead of it copies it. Why doesnt devs come up with their solution instead of every mmorpg after wow has to have same wow ranodm dungeon finder. There is no innovation, they just see what wow can come up with and copies it. Mark my words, cross realm areas with low pop might get copied as well.

Isn't part of the game industry just basically taking someone else's idea and tacking it on to your thing?

Originally posted by MeGaTronPower

Seriously lets think about this for 1 second guys. First of all why does everything have to copy from wow, lets make it an example it took wow to introduce random dungeon finder, so other mmos ahead of it copies it. Why doesnt devs come up with their solution instead of every mmorpg after wow has to have same wow ranodm dungeon finder. There is no innovation, they just see what wow can come up with and copies it. Mark my words, cross realm areas with low pop might get copied as well.

 

 

EQ2's face recognition is new to the MMO world.

Plus I am not so much sure everyone is Copying from WoW as much copying from each other. Whenever something becomes successful in one game, other games will impement it.

WoW has done this as well. 

Originally posted by Sylvarii
Neverwinters Online foundry system comes to mind,remember we are talking about a MMO modding system not a single player rpg.

I was just going to mention modding, you beat me too it.

One of the area's that WoW really excelled in was, allowing and even encouraging players to Mod the game.

Much of what you see now in World of Warcraft came from successful addons.

There used to be an addon that allowed you to save different armor sets and as long as you had them in your bags, swich them out instantly. This ended up in the game.

Much of the Quest helper has been implemented in the game.

Many of the changes to the UI came from Addons (I believe grid) originally.

A group calandar that allows you to post events and invite people came from an addon.

Allowing players to change the game, then adding the best of what the players come up with, to the game has helped WoW evolve.

Gamers dont give inovation in games a fare chance, so any game with a new inovation tends to get flamed by the community because its new and unusual. 

Gamers need to be more open-minded and embrace change. And because they currenlty dont as much as they should, developers try not to take chances leaving their games fate to a darker side of the gaming community.

I have always loved the idea of a mmorpg world, think about it for a short while, it is inspiring, but the reality is that there are just a few of them that have actually catched my interest and only for a short while. I will explain why. 

I often look at in-game footage of many mmo titles and think to myself: all of this could be part of any of these other games, or this reminds me of that other thing in X game, its all too similar, there is nothing genuinelly unexpected, there are variables, tiny improvements, maybe a couple of things could even amaze me for a short while but then I think , that it is just not enough to justify a whole new game, maybe the mountains or the sky or the outfits look better than one's previous game and there can be more voiced characters, if not all, and maybe the combat is refreshing and more engaging, even if you still cant discern all of the things that are happening in your screen..... that is not enough motivation to start over from level one and having to progress through all the pesky little quests and dynamics until the end of the content. 

In other words I feel the mmo games instead of innovation use evolution (lol) because they keep getting better with each generation but the changes that occur appear to be almost irrelevant in comparison with the things that stay the same.

Example:

The fantasy genre is evidently and irreparably associated to winged lizards, humanoids of every size, shape, and color variations......etc, try to pick a setting or a creature that doesnt remind you of the real world and its folklore, a plot that doesnt result too suspiciously familiar or even predictable to you. 

Perhaps we are not very imaginative creatures or perhaps there is a contagious obssession towards these themes that we have turned into the pilars of our fantasies. I mean, arent we all guilty of this, its like an instinctive action... we are all followers, we cant live without role models. Tell me, havent you even thought about making one of your characters resemble any of your favorite tv/movie/videogame personalities? Should that really be the point? Can you be sure? 

I dont care if it is in our very nature, I refuse to keep consuming the same product over and over! I will support any true deviation from the traditional fantasy/science fiction mmorpgs because I dont want to be stuck in the same puddle for the rest of my life. The truth is that everything is a shameless copy of the same blueprint and I already had too much of it, it doesnt even matter when they try to hide it with flamboyant details or subtle ambiguities, most of the times, the references are too clear to be proud of them.

Originally posted by Psy410

I have always loved the idea of a mmorpg world, think about it for a short while, it is inspiring, but the reality is that there are just a few of them that have actually catched my interest and only for a short while. I will explain why. 

I often look at in-game footage of many mmo titles and think to myself: all of this could be part of any of these other games, or this reminds me of that other thing in X game, its all too similar, there is nothing genuinelly unexpected, there are variables, tiny improvements, maybe a couple of things could even amaze me for a short while but then I think , that it is just not enough to justify a whole new game, maybe the mountains or the sky or the outfits look better than one's previous game and there can be more voiced characters, if not all, and maybe the combat is refreshing and more engaging, even if you still cant discern all of the things that are happening in your screen..... that is not enough motivation to start over from level one and having to progress through all the pesky little quests and dynamics until the end of the content. 

In other words I feel the mmo games instead of innovation use evolution (lol) because they keep getting better with each generation but the changes that occur appear to be almost irrelevant in comparison with the things that stay the same.

Example:

The fantasy genre is evidently and irreparably associated to winged lizards, humanoids of every size, shape, and color variations......etc, try to pick a setting or a creature that doesnt remind you of the real world and its folklore, a plot that doesnt result too suspiciously familiar or even predictable to you. 

Perhaps we are not very imaginative creatures or perhaps there is a contagious obssession towards these themes that we have turned into the pilars of our fantasies. I mean, arent we all guilty of this, its like an instinctive action... we are all followers, we cant live without role models. Tell me, havent you even thought about making one of your characters resemble any of your favorite tv/movie/videogame personalities? Can you be sure? 

I dont care if it is in our very nature, I refuse to keep consuming the same product over and over! I will support any true deviation from the traditional fantasy/science fiction mmorpgs because I dont want to be stuck in the same puddle for the rest of my life. The truth is that everything is a shameless copy of the same blueprint and I already had too much of it, it doesnt even matter when they try to hide it with flamboyant details or subtle ambiguities, most of the times, the references are too clear to be proud of them.

 

Ecclesiastes 1:9 - There is nothing new under the sun

Originally posted by MeGaTronPower

Seriously lets think about this for 1 second guys. First of all why does everything have to copy from wow, lets make it an example it took wow to introduce random dungeon finder, so other mmos ahead of it copies it. Why doesnt devs come up with their solution instead of every mmorpg after wow has to have same wow ranodm dungeon finder. There is no innovation, they just see what wow can come up with and copies it. Mark my words, cross realm areas with low pop might get copied as well.

 

 

There will never be innovation for one simple reason. No matter how innovative or new something is, people will always find a way to say Game X or Game Y has done that already, or they'll just use the age-old "WoW did it first" line.

Love it or hate it, people always  do it. Until a game comes out that is absolutely different and whos features are unlike anything seen before...there can be no innovation.

---

Originally posted by MeGaTronPower
Seriously lets think about this for 1 second guys. First of all why does everything have to copy from wow, lets make it an example it took wow to introduce random dungeon finder, so other mmos ahead of it copies it. Why doesnt devs come up with their solution instead of every mmorpg after wow has to have same wow ranodm dungeon finder. There is no innovation, they just see what wow can come up with and copies it. Mark my words, cross realm areas with low pop might get copied as well.

 

 

---

It wasnt WoW that introduced random dungeons it was Lord of the rings rofl, get your facts straight.
I bet wow was your 1st mmo and you think its the holy grail ?
WoW copied 90% from Everquest, ye i know it hurts that your precious wow copied most stuff from other mmo's and continue to do so.

before posting nonesense check your facts before you spit out trash.

Ha, someone told me something like this: that whatever we think we are inventing, nature has already done it better.

That same person told me: if you ever have to steal a from a museum, steal the most valuable object, not the cheap imitation.

The message is study nature and you will come up with something unique and wonderful, try to: replicate / innovate based on the creations of others and you will produce a cheap imitation (no matter how good you try to make it it will always be a second hand product).

Originally posted by MeGaTronPower

Seriously lets think about this for 1 second guys. First of all why does everything have to copy from wow, lets make it an example it took wow to introduce random dungeon finder, so other mmos ahead of it copies it. Why doesnt devs come up with their solution instead of every mmorpg after wow has to have same wow ranodm dungeon finder. There is no innovation, they just see what wow can come up with and copies it. Mark my words, cross realm areas with low pop might get copied as well.

Actually inventing stuff sounds like a lot more work than just copy and paste in features exactly from someone else.

Note that if another game invents something Wow usually add it soon like LOTROs use of phasing.

Originally posted by Starpower
Innovation is just another buzzword, meant to catch those MMO burnouts that has played the genre too much.

Not really, few genres have more static games than MMOs. Almost all MMOs have exactly the same combat system, quest system and itemsystem.

While we can discuss what exactly innovation means a few more AAA MMOs that doesnt feel exactly like a reskinned Wow or EQ would be nice. It isnt really that much that is needed for a game to feel different but most devs dont bother just thinking a little for themselves.

Rift for example is a well made game but I cant play it because it feels exactly the same as games I played for years. GW2, Tera and TSW on the other hand dont feel that way. That does not mean them truly innovative but not cardboard copies either.

MMOs needs to differ from eachother if they ever want to get out of Wows shadow.

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Starpower
Innovation is just another buzzword, meant to catch those MMO burnouts that has played the genre too much.

Not really, few genres have more static games than MMOs. Almost all MMOs have exactly the same combat system, quest system and itemsystem.

While we can discuss what exactly innovation means a few more AAA MMOs that doesnt feel exactly like a reskinned Wow or EQ would be nice. It isnt really that much that is needed for a game to feel different but most devs dont bother just thinking a little for themselves.

Rift for example is a well made game but I cant play it because it feels exactly the same as games I played for years. GW2, Tera and TSW on the other hand dont feel that way. That does not mean them truly innovative but not cardboard copies either.

SOME MMOs needs to differ from eachother if they ever want to get out of Wows shadow.

Fixed it for you.

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Starpower
Innovation is just another buzzword, meant to catch those MMO burnouts that has played the genre too much.

Not really, few genres have more static games than MMOs. Almost all MMOs have exactly the same combat system, quest system and itemsystem.

While we can discuss what exactly innovation means a few more AAA MMOs that doesnt feel exactly like a reskinned Wow or EQ would be nice. It isnt really that much that is needed for a game to feel different but most devs dont bother just thinking a little for themselves.

Rift for example is a well made game but I cant play it because it feels exactly the same as games I played for years. GW2, Tera and TSW on the other hand dont feel that way. That does not mean them truly innovative but not cardboard copies either.

MMOs needs to differ from eachother if they ever want to get out of Wows shadow.

You just made my case for me.. to quote you

'Rift for example is a well made game but I cant play it because it feels exactly the same as games I played for years'

Then you mention a game that came out in 99' - You are one of those burnouts, you just don't realize it

The problem with a lot of posters on MMORPG.com is you have been playing MMOs for a very very long time. Some of you play every new hyped up title that comes out. Yet expect the genre to evolve more than any other genre. All genres are stagnated not just MMOs. You wouldn't know because you don't spend years playing those 8+ hours a day the same way (yes I just used hyperbole and generalization to make my point)

Originally posted by Starpower

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Starpower
Innovation is just another buzzword, meant to catch those MMO burnouts that has played the genre too much.

Not really, few genres have more static games than MMOs. Almost all MMOs have exactly the same combat system, quest system and itemsystem.

While we can discuss what exactly innovation means a few more AAA MMOs that doesnt feel exactly like a reskinned Wow or EQ would be nice. It isnt really that much that is needed for a game to feel different but most devs dont bother just thinking a little for themselves.

Rift for example is a well made game but I cant play it because it feels exactly the same as games I played for years. GW2, Tera and TSW on the other hand dont feel that way. That does not mean them truly innovative but not cardboard copies either.

MMOs needs to differ from eachother if they ever want to get out of Wows shadow.

You just made my case for me.. to quote you

'Rift for example is a well made game but I cant play it because it feels exactly the same as games I played for years'

Then you mention a game that came out in 99' - You are one of those burnouts, you just don't realize it

 

The problem with a lot of posters on MMORPG.com is you have been playing MMOs for a very very long time. Some of you play every new hyped up title that comes out. Yet expect the genre to evolve more than any other genre. All genres are stagnated not just MMOs. You wouldn't know because you don't spend years playing those 8+ hours a day the same way (yes I just used hyperbole and generalization to make my point)

 

No, the problem doesn't lie with me, other than I'm burned out on playing EQ/WOW style theme parks which is pretty much all the MMO development world has been throwing at us for quite some time.

My first MMO's were Lineage 1, DAOC, Shadowbane, and Lineage 2.  I actually thought all MMO's were centered around castle sieging and territory control and it wasn't until I played WOW that I found out it wasn't so. (and I was positive they would add it in the first expansion, BC, along with FFA PVP servers and again, was astounded to see it not happen).

So I've been waiting for a quality MMORPG to be created around this core design, and outside of EVE there's been nothing new to play for so many years.  (DF, MO and the host of other underfunded indie MMO's don't count)

Not to mention I've read about titles such as UO, Asheron's call which were different in their own rights from the games I did play, or the EQ/WOW model, and their ideas have never been carried forward or improved on.

No, I won't take the (full) blame for this situation, I'll lay most of it on the industry that has been trying to play follow the leader for far too long.

The dungeon finder is a crappy concept to begin with, and plenty of MMOs dont copy it.

And WoW has copied so much stuff from other MMOs, its quite absurd and laughable if people complain about other MMOs copy from WoW now.