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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » What is the purpose of unlocking weapon skills?

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69 posts found
  HorrorScope

Novice Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 612

9/09/12 11:25:39 AM#41
Was this idea of weapon skill progression tested vigourously at Anet labs, that is has to be this way because our studies show it is thee method? I doubt it, it was something a designer came up with that sounded reasonable and boom here it is. Good or bad.
  solarine

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/06
Posts: 1204

9/09/12 11:43:36 AM#42

I think it's OK... It sort of eases you into the weapons and skills system. Typically the first weapon and skill you get is straightforward, while the offhand skills tend to a bit more complex and/or utility-based.

I'm guessing they did it this way so that the new MMO players will have an easier time acclimating themselves with the game.

It takes a really short time to unlock them all, so I can't see experienced MMO players geting too annoyed with it.

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 5979

9/09/12 12:01:51 PM#43
Originally posted by DMKano

I don't understand this design decision at all - when you start a new character why do we not start with all weapon skills unlocked?

Unlocking weapon skills for the first couple of hours, adds what to our playing experience exactly? 

I am not seeing a benefit here.

Maybe it is to give new players a feeling of progression? It would be nice to be able to have an option to start with all weapon skills unlocked.

Let me guess, you play a Greatsword Mesmer?

Lol

because the auto attack for Greatsword is so weak as a low level character trying to unlock weapon skills.

  Lobotomist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 4810

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

9/09/12 12:06:41 PM#44
Originally posted by DMKano

I don't understand this design decision at all - when you start a new character why do we not start with all weapon skills unlocked?

Unlocking weapon skills for the first couple of hours, adds what to our playing experience exactly? 

I am not seeing a benefit here.

Maybe it is to give new players a feeling of progression? It would be nice to be able to have an option to start with all weapon skills unlocked.

Completely agreed.

Same as they added "unlocking tree" for utility skills , literally last month before the release.

 

I think they were afraid the game will lack appeal for "WOW" crowd. So they added this artificial "progress"

You can literally unlock all weapon skills in 15 minutes. Completely pointles mechanic.

 

Best would be to give option to start with all weapon skills unlocked.

  Virin

Novice Member

Joined: 2/08/06
Posts: 32

9/09/12 12:13:22 PM#45
Again, I wasn't talking about pvp at all. What part of this is over your head? Let me try to explain in a way your can understand.

Pve - the op was talking about pve. I was talking about pve. My sarcasm was directed towards complaining about something so small in pve. Did I use the term "pve" enough?

Someone at Anet thought it was a good idea and thus here it is. For new players to the game and/or genre it gives them time to figure out the class/weapon system and what works for them. Do they like staff with elementalist or maybe dagger/dagger. Or scepter dagger etc. for vets it is 10 mins while playing so we don't have to wait till level 25, 50, 80 to have all those skills. Win/win. Those who need the time have it and those that don't need it can get them all pre-level 5.

Pvp - "off topic". I nor OP was talking about pvp because you don't spend anytime to unlock weapon skills... See comprehension. If op is talking about unlocking skills he isn't talking about pvp. Amazing.

Someone at Anet thought it would be a good idea to offer pvp to anyone at any level. Thus we have it. This is nice for people who could care less about pve content and would rather skip the level grind to 80 just to be able to pvp. But to offer this it has to be balanced. No not classes I am saying you can't reward the level 80s to have all their skills and the level ones to not. Level playing field for all.

Summary - was not talking about pvp. Was not giving an opinion on if someone should learn skills in pvp. What I think is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Was making a sarcastic comment about a silly complaint. And yes it is silly it hurts no one noob or vet.

Opinion- it is fine in pve. I feel pvp is easy mode and there should be a learning curve. A reward system. But Anet didn't want to listen to the people crying about wanting a Ferrari for their first car. So they handed you pvp and basically handed you pve but in with a 10 min wait. They handed everything over on a silver... Eh silver-plated platter and pve people can enjoy their exploring and pvp people can enjoy the mass killing and no one has to work at anything.
  Scalpless

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 1290

9/09/12 12:39:17 PM#46
GW2 is overwhelming as is. New players have to learn how to complete hearts, craft, dodge, do dynamic events, etc. All of these things are minor, so the learning process doesn't last long, but making it easier by only giving you a couple of skills in the very beginning is still a good idea. For more experienced players, it may be an annoyance, but a minor annoyance at worst.
  rosco

Novice Member

Joined: 6/06/06
Posts: 52

9/09/12 1:08:54 PM#47
Originally posted by DMKano

After hitting 80 on my first character it just felt annoying not having all the weapon skills when I started a new character - once you know the mechanics already it just takes away from enjoyment of the game IMO. Thankfully it's easy to unlock those skills - but it got me thinking - why can't we start with all weapon skills? It would be a much more enjoyable experience just being able to go in full force at lvl 1 instead of pew-pew 1 skill wonder, it feels so gimpy.

 

there is no tutorial in this game. At least with the small progression on the skill toolbar, the devs have an opportunity to control the learning curve of the skills of the new players. You didn't noticed because it's not your 1st MMO, but some new players might enjoy it. The healing skill is explained separately with a tooltip, the skills 7 to 9 are explained separately and so on. Everyone hasn't started MMO games with EQ1.

And as you said, it's easy to unlock them.

  waynejr2

Elite Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3732

RIP City of Heroes!

9/09/12 1:14:30 PM#48
Originally posted by DMKano

After hitting 80 on my first character it just felt annoying not having all the weapon skills when I started a new character - once you know the mechanics already it just takes away from enjoyment of the game IMO. Thankfully it's easy to unlock those skills - but it got me thinking - why can't we start with all weapon skills? It would be a much more enjoyable experience just being able to go in full force at lvl 1 instead of pew-pew 1 skill wonder, it feels so gimpy.

 

That really sounds like a personal problem to me.  Character progression is part of RPGs and GW2 is a mmoRPG.  If the game offends you so much, perhaps this game doesn't work for you.  If you don't GET progression, then perhaps the genre isn't for you.  Either way, it's all on you.

  Timzilla

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/11/04
Posts: 419

9/09/12 1:20:57 PM#49

So you unlock these skills in stride with your leveling. You don't have to stop and do your skill unlocks. Not having a particular skill at any particular time doesn't slow you down in the slightest. You could auto-attack your way to level 20, so I'm not seeing how this mechanic is a time sink or an inconvenience in any way.

  DaezAster

Novice Member

Joined: 6/18/12
Posts: 789

9/09/12 1:40:06 PM#50
At least it's a new topic/complaint but is this something to take issue with. It serves a purpose to ease you into your skill set and so new players can learn the skills one at a time and only takes a hot minute. At worst it is a very minor inconvenience for some it is probably a good thing. Overall it is a non issue.
  TwoThreeFour

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2148

9/09/12 2:03:05 PM#51
Originally posted by Virin
Again, I wasn't talking about pvp at all. What part of this is over your head? Let me try to explain in a way your can understand.

Pve - the op was talking about pve. I was talking about pve. My sarcasm was directed towards complaining about something so small in pve. Did I use the term "pve" enough
?
Your sarcasm implied that there is something very wrong with giving too much "character progression" such as skills, levels and traits from the get-go. 

Someone at Anet thought it was a good idea and thus here it is. For new players to the game and/or genre it gives them time to figure out the class/weapon system and what works for them. Do they like staff with elementalist or maybe dagger/dagger. Or scepter dagger etc. for vets it is 10 mins while playing so we don't have to wait till level 25, 50, 80 to have all those skills. Win/win. Those who need the time have it and those that don't need it can get them all pre-level 5.
It is only a "win-win" if it is a "win" compared to other options, Another similar option would be to let any player have the choice to skip this whole glorified tutorial using a simple buttonpress, so in comparison to that option it is a neutral-loss.

Pvp - "off topic". I nor OP was talking about pvp because you don't spend anytime to unlock weapon skills... See comprehension. If op is talking about unlocking skills he isn't talking about pvp. Amazing.
His comment could as well be applied to World vs World which is a PvP-centric activity.  

Someone at Anet thought it would be a good idea to offer pvp to anyone at any level. Thus we have it. This is nice for people who could care less about pve content and would rather skip the level grind to 80 just to be able to pvp. But to offer this it has to be balanced. No not classes I am saying you can't reward the level 80s to have all their skills and the level ones to not. Level playing field for all.
Why shouldn't they have all skills and traits? If a leveled playing field is truly something important, everything except cosmetic rewards ought to be handed out immidietely or seperation between players needs to happen.

Summary - was not talking about pvp. Was not giving an opinion on if someone should learn skills in pvp. What I think is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Was making a sarcastic comment about a silly complaint. And yes it is silly it hurts no one noob or vet.
Creating unnecessary timesink isn't reason enough? The solution is simple: give any player the option to skip it.

Opinion- it is fine in pve. I feel pvp is easy mode and there should be a learning curve. A reward system. But Anet didn't want to listen to the people crying about wanting a Ferrari for their first car. So they handed you pvp and basically handed you pve but in with a 10 min wait. They handed everything over on a silver... Eh silver-plated platter and pve people can enjoy their exploring and pvp people can enjoy the mass killing and no one has to work at anything.
They have to work on their mastery of the tools availabe for them to do well in PvE and PvP. So there is indeed work out there, quite a lot actually. 

 

 

  cura

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/24/04
Posts: 864

9/09/12 2:47:33 PM#52
Originally posted by dariuszp
Don't you have REAL PROBLEMS ? It takes few minutes to unlock it. I just buyed all weapons for my class from the start and unlocked them. Simple as that.

And thats why it seems so unnecessary. I dont give a shit but still

  Virin

Novice Member

Joined: 2/08/06
Posts: 32

9/09/12 2:56:37 PM#53
Timesink? You are kidding right? You can have them all including two underwater in 10 mins just running around. In fact you can have your first 3 just from the mobs around the first story boss. Calling that a time sink is ridiculous.

If you are used to games with a lot more skills "mastery" of the ones you get in this game is not work. You can pick any class and play around with builds in pvp for no cost and spam skills and score in the middle of everyone on your team. Trust me I do that for a time killer before work.

You can still have a level playing field and have rewards. How about you actually have to purchase different weapon sets. Or you only have access to certain sigils. It won't be a game breaker to not have divinity or nightmare but you can progress to a point where you have access to those options and experiment with other builds that way.

No need to explain win win. Splitting hairs over 10 mins of your precious time is not worth another word.

If you need more handed to you than you already have mmo is not a genre for you.

And yes there is something wrong with it all being handed to you. Where's the challenge? Don't get me wrong I enjoy the game for what it is but it is definitely easy mode.

Why is this even an issue? Acting like it takes a week to get your skills. 10 minutes of not even paying attention and you're done.
  Ginaz

Elite Member

Joined: 4/01/07
Posts: 1706

9/09/12 3:00:33 PM#54
Originally posted by cura
Originally posted by dariuszp
Don't you have REAL PROBLEMS ? It takes few minutes to unlock it. I just buyed all weapons for my class from the start and unlocked them. Simple as that.

And thats why it seems so unnecessary. I dont give a shit but still

Yeah, its not a huge deal as it doesn't take long to unlock them (even less at higher levels) but it just seems pointless.   And if people have a hard time knowing what the abilities do and need to be "eased" into them, maybe they should read the tool tip when you mouse over each skill.  Most people who are familiar with MMOs, which I would venutre to guess is the large majority of players, don't need to be "eased" into the skills.

Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  EricDanie

Tipster

Joined: 2/10/05
Posts: 2244

9/09/12 3:02:15 PM#55

It probably took you longer to write this post than to unlock the weapon skills you didn't have, or did you level 1-80 with a single weapon?

The first thing I did was to gradually change weapons as they dropped so I could unlock them all, it made me take a quick glance at all skills. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have bothered equipping them all if not for the unlock mechanic, not to mention I ended up being a ranger currently using greatswords and an axe/warhorn for PvE. My original plan was to just stick with bows, it didn't feel right using anything else... until it did.

So at least for me unlocking weapon skills served a purpose.

  SlyLoK

Elite Member

Joined: 7/04/08
Posts: 962

9/09/12 4:27:23 PM#56

Seems pretty pointless to me..It takes 5-10 minutes to unlock all of the skills. No reason to even have it setup this way honestly.

Now if they had a skills level system like Feeble - > - > Experienced ->-> Proficient ->-> Brilliant ->->..ect. and you pick weapon skills as you get higher skill levels over a lenghty period of time then it would make sense.

Now? Not so much.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

9/09/12 4:36:10 PM#57
Originally posted by SlyLoK

Seems pretty pointless to me..It takes 5-10 minutes to unlock all of the skills. No reason to even have it setup this way honestly.

Now if they had a skills level system like Feeble - > - > Experienced ->-> Proficient ->-> Brilliant ->->..ect. and you pick weapon skills as you get higher skill levels over a lenghty period of time then it would make sense.

Now? Not so much.

that's actually a good idea and maybe something to be added down the road:)

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  SlyLoK

Elite Member

Joined: 7/04/08
Posts: 962

9/09/12 4:39:48 PM#58
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by SlyLoK

Seems pretty pointless to me..It takes 5-10 minutes to unlock all of the skills. No reason to even have it setup this way honestly.

Now if they had a skills level system like Feeble - > - > Experienced ->-> Proficient ->-> Brilliant ->->..ect. and you pick weapon skills as you get higher skill levels over a lenghty period of time then it would make sense.

Now? Not so much.

that's actually a good idea and maybe something to be added down the road:)

The older online RPGs ( MUDS and Graphical alike ) used that system and it worked pretty well. No idea why MMORPGs have not attempted it because it IMO is a fun grind from start to end game.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

9/09/12 4:41:57 PM#59
Originally posted by SlyLoK
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by SlyLoK

Seems pretty pointless to me..It takes 5-10 minutes to unlock all of the skills. No reason to even have it setup this way honestly.

Now if they had a skills level system like Feeble - > - > Experienced ->-> Proficient ->-> Brilliant ->->..ect. and you pick weapon skills as you get higher skill levels over a lenghty period of time then it would make sense.

Now? Not so much.

that's actually a good idea and maybe something to be added down the road:)

The older online RPGs ( MUDS and Graphical alike ) used that system and it worked pretty well. No idea why MMORPGs have not attempted it because it IMO is a fun grind from start to end game.

i agree although it sort of sucks when its your only form of skill progression and you aren't learning any new skills at all.. but if you add how utility skills are unlocked on top of something like this I think it would add a lot to the skill progression.

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  crazynanny

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/10
Posts: 175

9/09/12 6:26:44 PM#60

if you are new to MMOs or casual player slow pace of gaining skill is good and Anet should keep it that way. Especially when at lvl 10(I think) 1 kill = 1 skill unlocked, meaning bout 1-2 minutes to unlock all of them. So if you're pro, stick to one lvling weapon till lvl 10 and then unlock all weapons  nearly instantly(up to 4 kills per weapon).

I guess some option to unlock all weapons would be nice but Anet has bigger issues to deal with than this...

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