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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

PvE & Crafting  » Compared to other MMO dungeons, Guild Wars 2 dungeons are...

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86 posts found
  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

9/09/12 2:19:42 PM#21
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by Spellshaper
They are hard, but the way you can run back from point or kite the bosses, you probably end up finishing them after a 1000 deaths a few hours later. In some games, you have no chance to finish them even if they are easier.

This ^^^

Any boss that is even remotely challenging is easily countered by res zerging. Even the dungeons in this game are easy mode due to this option.

so instead we should lose a level or 2 in the process on top of wiping over and over? sounds like fun to me... i'd prefer hard encounters and less penalty for death but maybe that's just me.. I remember playing lineage 2 grinding out 1000 creatures to die and bring my xp down so I had to grind another couple hundred just to get bakc to where i was.. soooo much fun...

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  TwoThreeFour

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2148

9/09/12 2:20:03 PM#22
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by Spellshaper
They are hard, but the way you can run back from point or kite the bosses, you probably end up finishing them after a 1000 deaths a few hours later. In some games, you have no chance to finish them even if they are easier.

This ^^^

Any boss that is even remotely challenging is easily countered by res zerging. Even the dungeons in this game are easy mode due to this option.

 

Isn't there a penalty involved to prevent zergs like that? 

Not outside of repair bills.

 

But aren't the repair bills very high? How much silver would you lose if you wiped 10 times for instance? (I am trying to get a perspective).

 

Edit: nevermind, just saw a reply above:)

  kadepsyson

Novice Member

Joined: 5/15/06
Posts: 1966

The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that.

9/09/12 2:20:45 PM#23
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by Spellshaper
They are hard, but the way you can run back from point or kite the bosses, you probably end up finishing them after a 1000 deaths a few hours later. In some games, you have no chance to finish them even if they are easier.

This ^^^

Any boss that is even remotely challenging is easily countered by res zerging. Even the dungeons in this game are easy mode due to this option.

 

Isn't there a penalty involved to prevent zergs like that? 

Not outside of repair bills.

 

But aren't the repair bills very high? How much silver would you lose if you wiped 10 times for instance? (I am trying to get a perspective).

Don't worry just break out your real life wallet.

El Psy Congroo

  TwoThreeFour

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2148

9/09/12 2:21:25 PM#24
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by Spellshaper
They are hard, but the way you can run back from point or kite the bosses, you probably end up finishing them after a 1000 deaths a few hours later. In some games, you have no chance to finish them even if they are easier.

This ^^^

Any boss that is even remotely challenging is easily countered by res zerging. Even the dungeons in this game are easy mode due to this option.

so instead we should lose a level or 2 in the process on top of wiping over and over? sounds like fun to me... i'd prefer hard encounters and less penalty for death but maybe that's just me.. I remember playing lineage 2 grinding out 1000 creatures to die and bring my xp down so I had to grind another couple hundred just to get bakc to where i was.. soooo much fun...

 

Another option would to give people X amount of tries daily/weekly. That way it wouldn't be a big issue for casual but talented players, but it would be a large issue for very active but not so talented players.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

9/09/12 2:22:56 PM#25
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by Spellshaper
They are hard, but the way you can run back from point or kite the bosses, you probably end up finishing them after a 1000 deaths a few hours later. In some games, you have no chance to finish them even if they are easier.

This ^^^

Any boss that is even remotely challenging is easily countered by res zerging. Even the dungeons in this game are easy mode due to this option.

so instead we should lose a level or 2 in the process on top of wiping over and over? sounds like fun to me... i'd prefer hard encounters and less penalty for death but maybe that's just me.. I remember playing lineage 2 grinding out 1000 creatures to die and bring my xp down so I had to grind another couple hundred just to get bakc to where i was.. soooo much fun...

 

Another option would to give people X amount of tries daily/weekly. That way it wouldn't be a big issue for casual but talented players, but it would be a large issue for very active but not so talented players.

i HIGHLY doubt that would go over well with most people...

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  kadepsyson

Novice Member

Joined: 5/15/06
Posts: 1966

The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that.

9/09/12 2:23:10 PM#26
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by Spellshaper
They are hard, but the way you can run back from point or kite the bosses, you probably end up finishing them after a 1000 deaths a few hours later. In some games, you have no chance to finish them even if they are easier.

This ^^^

Any boss that is even remotely challenging is easily countered by res zerging. Even the dungeons in this game are easy mode due to this option.

so instead we should lose a level or 2 in the process on top of wiping over and over? sounds like fun to me... i'd prefer hard encounters and less penalty for death but maybe that's just me.. I remember playing lineage 2 grinding out 1000 creatures to die and bring my xp down so I had to grind another couple hundred just to get bakc to where i was.. soooo much fun...

 

Another option would to give people X amount of tries daily/weekly. That way it wouldn't be a big issue for casual but talented players, but it would be a large issue for very active but not so talented players.

Makes sense to me.  If you are defeated by things in a dungeon, they throw you out of it!  But that goes against the "everybody wins everything happy rainbow la la land" spirit of guild wars 2.

El Psy Congroo

  Atlan99

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/08
Posts: 1355

9/09/12 2:25:34 PM#27
Originally posted by Aerowyn

so instead we should lose a level or 2 in the process on top of wiping over and over? sounds like fun to me... i'd prefer hard encounters and less penalty for death but maybe that's just me.. I remember playing lineage 2 grinding out 1000 creatures to die and bring my xp down so I had to grind another couple hundred just to get bakc to where i was.. soooo much fun...

Straw man 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

9/09/12 2:26:03 PM#28
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by Spellshaper
They are hard, but the way you can run back from point or kite the bosses, you probably end up finishing them after a 1000 deaths a few hours later. In some games, you have no chance to finish them even if they are easier.

This ^^^

Any boss that is even remotely challenging is easily countered by res zerging. Even the dungeons in this game are easy mode due to this option.

so instead we should lose a level or 2 in the process on top of wiping over and over? sounds like fun to me... i'd prefer hard encounters and less penalty for death but maybe that's just me.. I remember playing lineage 2 grinding out 1000 creatures to die and bring my xp down so I had to grind another couple hundred just to get bakc to where i was.. soooo much fun...

 

Another option would to give people X amount of tries daily/weekly. That way it wouldn't be a big issue for casual but talented players, but it would be a large issue for very active but not so talented players.

Makes sense to me.  If you are defeated by things in a dungeon, they throw you out of it!  But that goes against the "everybody wins everything happy rainbow la la land" spirit of guild wars 2.

Or any other MMO for that matter. Name one MMO that throws you out of the dungeon if you are defeated.

This double standard is getting out of hand. All MMOs do this, not just GW2 but I guess haters gonna hate.

  kadepsyson

Novice Member

Joined: 5/15/06
Posts: 1966

The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that.

9/09/12 2:26:54 PM#29
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by Aerowyn

so instead we should lose a level or 2 in the process on top of wiping over and over? sounds like fun to me... i'd prefer hard encounters and less penalty for death but maybe that's just me.. I remember playing lineage 2 grinding out 1000 creatures to die and bring my xp down so I had to grind another couple hundred just to get bakc to where i was.. soooo much fun...

Straw man 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Nice haha, OWNED

El Psy Congroo

  Anireth

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 417

9/09/12 2:27:19 PM#30
The problem with "x tries per y" is with the definition of a try. If it counts as a try after the final boss, you can still zerg. Anything before is error prone, like disconnects.  Especially annoying if the server has trouble, not you, and you lose the try.

I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

9/09/12 2:28:40 PM#31
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by Aerowyn

so instead we should lose a level or 2 in the process on top of wiping over and over? sounds like fun to me... i'd prefer hard encounters and less penalty for death but maybe that's just me.. I remember playing lineage 2 grinding out 1000 creatures to die and bring my xp down so I had to grind another couple hundred just to get bakc to where i was.. soooo much fun...

Straw man 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Nice haha, OWNED

funny thing is at least you gave a suggestion unlike some people who just bash the game over and over without any sort of idea on how to improve things or anything to add to the discussion

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  kadepsyson

Novice Member

Joined: 5/15/06
Posts: 1966

The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that.

9/09/12 2:29:20 PM#32
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by Spellshaper
They are hard, but the way you can run back from point or kite the bosses, you probably end up finishing them after a 1000 deaths a few hours later. In some games, you have no chance to finish them even if they are easier.

This ^^^

Any boss that is even remotely challenging is easily countered by res zerging. Even the dungeons in this game are easy mode due to this option.

so instead we should lose a level or 2 in the process on top of wiping over and over? sounds like fun to me... i'd prefer hard encounters and less penalty for death but maybe that's just me.. I remember playing lineage 2 grinding out 1000 creatures to die and bring my xp down so I had to grind another couple hundred just to get bakc to where i was.. soooo much fun...

 

Another option would to give people X amount of tries daily/weekly. That way it wouldn't be a big issue for casual but talented players, but it would be a large issue for very active but not so talented players.

Makes sense to me.  If you are defeated by things in a dungeon, they throw you out of it!  But that goes against the "everybody wins everything happy rainbow la la land" spirit of guild wars 2.

Or any other MMO for that matter. Name one MMO that throws you out of the dungeon if you are defeated.

This double standard is getting out of hand. All MMOs do this, not just GW2 but I guess haters gonna hate.

Last time I played World of Warcraft, I wiped in a dungeon.  I had to then respawn outside the dungeon.

You had some sort of point?

El Psy Congroo

  User Deleted
9/09/12 2:29:48 PM#33
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by Aerowyn

so instead we should lose a level or 2 in the process on top of wiping over and over? sounds like fun to me... i'd prefer hard encounters and less penalty for death but maybe that's just me.. I remember playing lineage 2 grinding out 1000 creatures to die and bring my xp down so I had to grind another couple hundred just to get bakc to where i was.. soooo much fun...

Straw man 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Nice haha, OWNED

I heard some people like that word, "owned", they use it to make them feel they won even when they lost. This said, Aerowyn is 100% right here.

  User Deleted
9/09/12 2:30:58 PM#34
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by Spellshaper
They are hard, but the way you can run back from point or kite the bosses, you probably end up finishing them after a 1000 deaths a few hours later. In some games, you have no chance to finish them even if they are easier.

This ^^^

Any boss that is even remotely challenging is easily countered by res zerging. Even the dungeons in this game are easy mode due to this option.

so instead we should lose a level or 2 in the process on top of wiping over and over? sounds like fun to me... i'd prefer hard encounters and less penalty for death but maybe that's just me.. I remember playing lineage 2 grinding out 1000 creatures to die and bring my xp down so I had to grind another couple hundred just to get bakc to where i was.. soooo much fun...

 

Another option would to give people X amount of tries daily/weekly. That way it wouldn't be a big issue for casual but talented players, but it would be a large issue for very active but not so talented players.

If you want challenge, do explorer/hard mode, if you want people the majority of people to actually have a chance of downing everything, don't touch it. There are plenty of instances I can name that you would never touch if you downleveled from dying or got kicked out for deaths. It basically puts a strain on the casuals who want to clear it when they got a number over their heads with how many lives they have left to lose. And I'm sure hard mode will make it so you can't so easily zerg a fight like you can on story mode.

  Atlan99

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/08
Posts: 1355

9/09/12 2:32:03 PM#35
Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Straw man 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Nice haha, OWNED

I heard some people like that word, "owned", they use it to make them feel they won even when they lost. This said, Aerowyn is 100% right here.

straw man, known in the UK as an Aunt Sally, is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.

Informal Fallacy - An informal fallacy is an argument whose stated premises fail to support its proposed conclusion.[1] The deviation in an informal fallacy often stems from a flaw in the path of reasoning that links the premises to the conclusion. In contrast to a formal fallacy, the error has to do with issues of ratiocination manifest in language used to state the propositions; the range of elements that can be symbolized by language is broader than that which the symbolism of formal logic can represent.

  kadepsyson

Novice Member

Joined: 5/15/06
Posts: 1966

The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that.

9/09/12 2:33:08 PM#36
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by Aerowyn

so instead we should lose a level or 2 in the process on top of wiping over and over? sounds like fun to me... i'd prefer hard encounters and less penalty for death but maybe that's just me.. I remember playing lineage 2 grinding out 1000 creatures to die and bring my xp down so I had to grind another couple hundred just to get bakc to where i was.. soooo much fun...

Straw man 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Nice haha, OWNED

I heard some people like that word, "owned", they use it to make them feel they won even when they lost. This said, Aerowyn is 100% right here.

I can be 100% right too, if I make up an arguement with myself that the person I quote wasn't talking about.

El Psy Congroo

  keirion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 45

9/09/12 2:34:10 PM#37
Originally posted by heartless

I just finished running Sorrow's Furnace and it took our group roughly around 1.5 hours to finish. That's a pretty decent amount of time for a dungeon. Anything longer than that becomes tedious.

FYI, Arenanet said their intention was for their dungeons to be 1.5-3 hours. That was pretty standard for the tougher instances in GW1 as well.

  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

9/09/12 2:35:12 PM#38
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by Spellshaper
They are hard, but the way you can run back from point or kite the bosses, you probably end up finishing them after a 1000 deaths a few hours later. In some games, you have no chance to finish them even if they are easier.

This ^^^

Any boss that is even remotely challenging is easily countered by res zerging. Even the dungeons in this game are easy mode due to this option.

so instead we should lose a level or 2 in the process on top of wiping over and over? sounds like fun to me... i'd prefer hard encounters and less penalty for death but maybe that's just me.. I remember playing lineage 2 grinding out 1000 creatures to die and bring my xp down so I had to grind another couple hundred just to get bakc to where i was.. soooo much fun...

 

Another option would to give people X amount of tries daily/weekly. That way it wouldn't be a big issue for casual but talented players, but it would be a large issue for very active but not so talented players.

Makes sense to me.  If you are defeated by things in a dungeon, they throw you out of it!  But that goes against the "everybody wins everything happy rainbow la la land" spirit of guild wars 2.

Or any other MMO for that matter. Name one MMO that throws you out of the dungeon if you are defeated.

This double standard is getting out of hand. All MMOs do this, not just GW2 but I guess haters gonna hate.

Last time I played World of Warcraft, I wiped in a dungeon.  I had to then respawn outside the dungeon.

You had some sort of point?

You didn't respawn outside of the dungeon. You ran as a ghost back into the dungeon and were resurrected upon entering. Dying did not prevent you from continuing to run the dungeon from the point of your defeat.

  fierce750

Novice Member

Joined: 4/13/05
Posts: 36

9/09/12 2:38:04 PM#39

For those of you who say hard? LOL

 

Guess nobody ever played Everquest before all the expansions when you would die in Plane of fear and spend the next 10hrs doing corpse recovery.

 

I actually miss the old days....

  User Deleted
9/09/12 2:39:54 PM#40
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Straw man 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Nice haha, OWNED

I heard some people like that word, "owned", they use it to make them feel they won even when they lost. This said, Aerowyn is 100% right here.

straw man, known in the UK as an Aunt Sally, is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.

Informal Fallacy - An informal fallacy is an argument whose stated premises fail to support its proposed conclusion.[1] The deviation in an informal fallacy often stems from a flaw in the path of reasoning that links the premises to the conclusion. In contrast to a formal fallacy, the error has to do with issues of ratiocination manifest in language used to state the propositions; the range of elements that can be symbolized by language is broader than that which the symbolism of formal logic can represent.

If you want to talk logistics. I can play that game.

"Any boss that is even remotely challenging is easily countered by res zerging. Even the dungeons in this game are easy mode due to this option."

So if I propose an example of a boss that can't be countered by zerging I win right?

Ok then. Second boss in SoE is a protect quest. Mobs spawn rapidly and attack the person doing the action (hacking the computer) and you must stop the mobs from killing her. If you lose even one person that fight becomes impossible as add management gets out of control and can 4-5 shot the NPC. So running back and trying to get into the fight which is about a min walk will not work since the mobs will kill her before you get back. Thus you cannot die and zerg it.

Also, I have done some explorable modes. Citadel of Flames, one boss spawns crystals that heal the boss while they are up. If you have 1 less person because he is a derp and manages to die on this fight you will not have the damage to kill the boss as he will heal back to full since the crystals constantly spawn and you need dps on them and the boss.

So thus, proves your point invalid. Yay logic.

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