Originally posted by Vesavius

First, I will say... loving the game more every day. I make no excuses or bones about that. I think it is actually pretty sublime.

 

But... some people are not getting it, obviously. Not the majority I think, everyone I see in game seems to be having a great time, but there are those that are finding it not for them.

Why?

My suspicion is, simply, that GW2 is a strange thing... it is a themepark that requires you to think like a sandbox, but the problem is the vast majority of players are unable to think like you need to to properly enjoy a sandbox.

They require close guidance. They require spoon feeding of a daily schedule. Too much choice confuses and frustrates them, at which point they start crying 'bored!!'.

 

They just don't get it... maybe the game is too subtle in what it does?

 

To enjoy the game properly, I think, you need to be able to let go of what you have been conditioned with over the last few years, but I suspect a lot of folks ultimately won't be able to do that.

 

Thoughts?

This is the best part.

The personal storyline leads you by nose from zone to zone. Fine you can ignore it all together and go level in other racial area but....vistas are pointed on your map so are PIO's and hearts. Scouts show up on your map who further point you towards heart events if they are not yet discovered . The only thing that don't show up on maps are DE's 

So what exactly the choice here that intimidates people so much? you mean in skills? builds? because even in that department GW1 had lot more freedom.

Too much exaggeration as usual.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Creslin321

I understand what you mean OP, but I think your use of the two terms that everyone on this site has a different definition for is going to cause you grief :).

Making a topic with either of those terms themepark or sandbox to try and strive a point pretty much turns the topic overall into a lost cause.

 

I am inclined to agree Wicked, sadly.

I once again underestimate the forum with a topic and their ability to not just argue about terminology and semanitcs for 15 pages :/

Using the term was a mistake. People are just reading what they want it to be saying, rather then what it is saying.

Ahh wel, nm.

Wow.

The amount of delusion in this thread is off the hook. People actually think GW2 is complicated and requires special intelligence to play. It's a casual mmo made for the casual player. It is not difficult at all and requires the least amount of effort to reach max level of an mmo I have played.

Originally posted by Tardcore

Originally posted by Vesavius

First, I will say... loving the game more every day. I make no excuses or bones about that. I think it is actually pretty sublime.

 

But... some people are not getting it, obviously. Not the majority I think, everyone I see in game seems to be having a great time, but there are those that are finding it not for them.

Why?

My suspicion is, simply, that GW2 is a strange thing... it is a themepark that requires you to think like a sandbox, but the problem is the vast majority of players are unable to think like you need to to properly enjoy a sandbox.

They require close guidance. They require spoon feeding of a daily schedule. Too much choice confuses and frustrates them, at which point they start crying 'bored!!'.

 

They just don't get it... maybe the game is too subtle in what it does?

 

To enjoy the game properly, I think, you need to be able to let go of what you have been conditioned with over the last few years, but I suspect a lot of folks ultimately won't be able to do that.

 

Thoughts?

Uh .. wut? I hate to tell you this but wandering the map from heart to heart and jumping into the occasional orange ring of "do-goodery" is not exactly fucking rocket surgery. If people are finding themselves unable to figure out what to do, they must be the same kind of person who has trouble going to the lavatory on their own. 

Personally I feel the real issue is the PVE portion of the game feels like it lacks any real meaning and is repetitve as hell. The same complaint of every themepark that's come down the pike. While I think the free roaming questing of the game is a nice idea, the way A-nets put it together means all I see it as is the freedom to become bored wherever I like.

"You call what Swan does acting? That's not acting. Its kissing and jumping and fighting and humping"

Couldn't have said it better. I played EVE for 5 years and Ryzom for 3. And i didn't need to bring my 'sandbox' mentality in GW2 to enjoy it.

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by Atlan99

How?

There is only so much content. Once you complete it there is not much to do. The game has no sandbox features outside of WvW.

 

 

/sigh...

Go back and read it again?

I did not say it was a sandbox or had any sandbox elements.

I said it required a the same type of general mentaillity (and that's a crucial word here) as a sandbox does...one of self determination, amongst other things.

? Self determination? Seriously, not hating, i have no what you're talking about.

I think you really mean explorer because of the usual quest hub scenario.

Let use TSW as an example, sinc ei just posted on those forums. During TSW beta, i saw alot of posts in different places that people had to backtrack to the hubs and because you can only have 1 main quests, i was horrible.

However, i had read that the game as a "minihub" system and that item missions are used to guide you around the intire are in whatever direction you wish. Bu some people decided tos tick to the normal forumla and hated it for it.

As i already said, GW2 is similar. But besides questing, i can't see what's different or sandboxy at all that requires a shift in mentality.

Seriously, it can't be because people can choose which activity (pvp, wvw, crafting, etc) they can engage in, since, i'm sorry, gamers aren't so stupid they can't decide what hey want to play. And if you find said people, it's not GW2, it's the players. And this will happen with any game for them.

Originally posted by Nikkita

Originally posted by Vesavius

First, I will say... loving the game more every day. I make no excuses or bones about that. I think it is actually pretty sublime.

 

But... some people are not getting it, obviously. Not the majority I think, everyone I see in game seems to be having a great time, but there are those that are finding it not for them.

Why?

My suspicion is, simply, that GW2 is a strange thing... it is a themepark that requires you to think like a sandbox, but the problem is the vast majority of players are unable to think like you need to to properly enjoy a sandbox.

They require close guidance. They require spoon feeding of a daily schedule. Too much choice confuses and frustrates them, at which point they start crying 'bored!!'.

 

They just don't get it... maybe the game is too subtle in what it does?

 

To enjoy the game properly, I think, you need to be able to let go of what you have been conditioned with over the last few years, but I suspect a lot of folks ultimately won't be able to do that.

 

Thoughts?

The personal storyline leads you by nose from zone to zone. Fine you can ignore it all together and go level in other racial area but....vistas are pointed on your map so are PIO's and hearts. Scouts show up on your map who further point you towards heart events if they are not yet discovered . The only thing that don't show up on maps are DE's 

So what exactly the choice here that intimidates people so much?

I have no idea, but I have heard it as a complaint that some folks are confused and feel lost and undirected.

They would need to answer your last question I guess.

Originally posted by Nikkita

Originally posted by Tardcore

Originally posted by Vesavius

First, I will say... loving the game more every day. I make no excuses or bones about that. I think it is actually pretty sublime.

 

But... some people are not getting it, obviously. Not the majority I think, everyone I see in game seems to be having a great time, but there are those that are finding it not for them.

Why?

My suspicion is, simply, that GW2 is a strange thing... it is a themepark that requires you to think like a sandbox, but the problem is the vast majority of players are unable to think like you need to to properly enjoy a sandbox.

They require close guidance. They require spoon feeding of a daily schedule. Too much choice confuses and frustrates them, at which point they start crying 'bored!!'.

 

They just don't get it... maybe the game is too subtle in what it does?

 

To enjoy the game properly, I think, you need to be able to let go of what you have been conditioned with over the last few years, but I suspect a lot of folks ultimately won't be able to do that.

 

Thoughts?

Uh .. wut? I hate to tell you this but wandering the map from heart to heart and jumping into the occasional orange ring of "do-goodery" is not exactly fucking rocket surgery. If people are finding themselves unable to figure out what to do, they must be the same kind of person who has trouble going to the lavatory on their own. 

Personally I feel the real issue is the PVE portion of the game feels like it lacks any real meaning and is repetitve as hell. The same complaint of every themepark that's come down the pike. While I think the free roaming questing of the game is a nice idea, the way A-nets put it together means all I see it as is the freedom to become bored wherever I like.

"You call what Swan does acting? That's not acting. Its kissing and jumping and fighting and humping"

Couldn't have said it better. I played EVE for 5 years and Ryzom for 3. And i didn't need to bring my 'sandbox' mentality in GW2 to enjoy it.

I don't know... Sometimes I can't get myself out of town without deciding on which weapon I want to hack and slash or shoot at the target... It's a hard decision you know... Choose wrong and its like waking up on the wrong side of the bed, just doesn't feel right...

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Creslin321

I understand what you mean OP, but I think your use of the two terms that everyone on this site has a different definition for is going to cause you grief :).

Making a topic with either of those terms themepark or sandbox to try and strive a point pretty much turns the topic overall into a lost cause.

 

 

I am inclined to agree Wicked, sadly.

I once again underestimate the forum with a topic and their ability to not just argue about terminology and semanitcs for 15 pages :/

Using the term was a mistake. People are just reading what they want it to be saying, rather then what it is saying.

Ahh wel, nm.

Yup you got it :)

Originally posted by Atlan99

Wow.

The amount of delusion in this thread is off the hook. People actually think GW2 is complicated and requires special intelligence to play. It's a casual mmo made for the casual player. It is not difficult at all and requires the least amount of effort to reach max level of an mmo I have played.

Again, you have misunderstood.

No one said it was complicated. No one said it required intelligence. This all was your addition. You are arguing a point that you yourself have introduced.

That's twice in this thread you have failed to grasp what's being said.

Originally posted by Vesavius

 

I have no idea, but I have heard it as a complaint that some folks are confused and feel lost and undirected.

They would need to answer your last question I guess.

 

 To be fair, I have seen some get thrown into this group when they remark some areas seem sparse on DEs so they either end up repeating them or consider going to other racial areas unless they do a lot of crafting or WvW as well in lower areas. The reason ebing they want to keep other areas unexplored for when they make alts. Not saying that is all of those but I have seen some unfairly dubbed this honor. Amusingly the writer for this site that did his review had that thrown his way by a few even. So part of it is people misunderstanding what some are syaing.

Others I have seen unfairly categorized that way simply say they don't feel any real immersion or significance with the DEs they have done.

Far as those that do simply feel completely lost. Well...I mean for some it will come over time and for others maybe they rather enjoy things being set up completely linear. Everyone has different tastes.

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Creslin321

I understand what you mean OP, but I think your use of the two terms that everyone on this site has a different definition for is going to cause you grief :).

Making a topic with either of those terms themepark or sandbox to try and strive a point pretty much turns the topic overall into a lost cause.

 

 

I am inclined to agree Wicked, sadly.

I once again underestimate the forum with a topic and their ability to not just argue about terminology and semanitcs for 15 pages :/

Using the term was a mistake. People are just reading what they want it to be saying, rather then what it is saying.

Ahh wel, nm.

Yup you got it :)

Yeah ;)

I will just withdraw and let folk get on with it now I think. Explaining repeatedly to people that have too much invested in not understanding isn't fun.

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by Atlan99

Wow.

The amount of delusion in this thread is off the hook. People actually think GW2 is complicated and requires special intelligence to play. It's a casual mmo made for the casual player. It is not difficult at all and requires the least amount of effort to reach max level of an mmo I have played.

 

Again, you have misunderstood.

No one said it was complicated. No one said it required intelligence. This all was your addition. You are arguing a point that you yourself have introduced.

That's twice in this thread you have failed to grasp what's being said.

 

Several people have insinutated that GW2 is too complicated for some players, that need to be held by the hand. Go back and read some of the posts.

As far as failing to grasp, you yourself have backed off your original post, because it made absolutely no sense. Maybe it is you that fails to grasp, what you are even trying to say.

Also i would to like to add here regarding..

They require spoon feeding of a daily schedule.

There is plenty of spoon feeding in GW2 through daily achievement system. They cleverly replaced quest dailies with achievement system and monthly system. Not sure if there is weekly yet or not. But it would be foolish not to do this because rewards are great.

I have got 8 transmutation stones through it, an express token to use my bank and auction anywhere in world, rare dyes,tons of xp and gold along with those special mystic coins you get for Lions arch.

So yeah plenty of daily scheduling here. Right now i am working on monthly.

No, the problem is people don't want MMOs anymore.

No matter what you do, they want to grind instanced dungeons for that farmville number effect.

No matter what you change that's what the genre is now.

It's a shame too.

Everyone likes their first MMO because they actually play it to play it, not to get to endgame and grind. You need that mentality for GW2 and ALL MMOs, but people don't use it anymore.

A nerfnow comic comes to mind that explains this. You can change the game but you can't change the gamer.

The game isn't perfect, but it doesn't matter because even if it had NO FLAWS AT ALL people would have the same responses.

Well, at least we are making progress.

At first people who didn't like GW2 were undercover blizzard employees, then they were trolls who hadn't even played the game. Now they are players who just don't get it. 

At this rate we will stumble upon the real reason in about a month: GW2 is just another generic fantasy themepark. Some of them use the "course" approach and bring you different dishes to your table. Others like GW2 uses the buffet approach, where you get to choose what you want to eat. Ultimately it doesn't make a difference because both restaurants get their food from the fantasy themepark kitchen, which is the same boring, bland crap we've been fed in the last 10 years.

Originally posted by GamerUntouch

No, the problem is people don't want MMOs anymore.

 

 

Personally I would say it's more people don't know what they want ...

They don't want a clone > release a non clone > people complain it's not a clone 

Pretty much same issues and topics TSW has/had

Originally posted by aesperus

Originally posted by MMOwanderer

The only thing i knew was different in the way to experience as DE. Simply use the Hearts to guide you and then move on to find DE's. Don't use Hearts like quest hubs and move from each to each. So, i just explored to find them.

That is the problem in a nutshell.

The people who don't get it are focusing almost entirely on hearts. It's been stated, re-emphasized, and demonstrated time & time again that hearts are not the focus of the game. They are a little something extra on the side. However, people are still treating them like that little exclamation point you find in other games.

I think this is it, too.  Hearts, and I'd say even map completion.  Some people are looking at it like a level to be completed, and move on.  Content to be grinded out and outlevelled.

Personally, I'm enjoying the downlevelling a lot more than I expected to.  I just go all over, and don't worry that much about where I've already been.