Originally posted by dotdotdash

Originally posted by localman22

We don't know why NC Soft chose to end a game that, as far as we knew, was still making a profit.  But to many of us it was more than a game . . . it was a great community.

Barely.

Less than 1% of NCSoft's total revenue was coming from CoX, and it had no market penetration in Korea. Its transition to F2P failed to boost revenues significantly. You're talking about real failure as well, not supposed; where games like STO, Champion's, LotRo, AoC, etc, increased margins by hundreds of percent, CoX didn't. Revenues increased but in the magnitude of tens, rather than hundreds. The goal with the switch to F2P would have been to create a healthy number of players that would then buy into future content, but that didn't happen. The overheads involved in developing new content would have more than likely merely balanced out than made any significant margins.

 

From the information I have seen, yes, CoH was only a small part of NC Soft's total revenue and had almost no market penetration in Asia.  But that was true before NC Soft bought out Cryptic, so I doubt that was  a significant factor unless there was a change in administration.

 

From what we as players saw, the Free-to-play hybrid model increased revenues to the point that Paragon Studios hired a lot of new people and were producing new content and powersets for the game at a much faster rate than ever previously.  I think I saw that the overall profit from CoH was around $2 mil.  I would think that if the game was failing to reach revenue goals, some of the folks at Paragon Studios would have known that and not been surprised when NC Soft came in to shut things down.  Maybe you have information I don't, but it does not appear that it was shut down for failing to make projected revenue.

This is just rediculous! First SOE shuts down SWG just as the once horrible NGE debacle was fixed and actually a lot of fun. The player base were coming back slowly but surely, We all know why it was shut down ERmm cough cough Swtor (which was prmoptly considered Fail game.. sadly).. Now NCsoft is shutting down COX ? I can't help but wonder if it is due to the success of how well they did the Free to play model for AION. I will admit going back to COX as a free player was uber lame, There were way to many retrictions, They forced you to go VIP. So of course the player base went on to Aion not because they didnt like the game, but because there are no restrictions for free players. COX has so many things to do and i have had a great time playing that game. I spent so much money in their paragon market that i feel cheated big time! Will they compensate us who have spent so much on the game ? i was vip plus i spent an additional 40$ a month in the shop! You just cant do this to people we worked way to hard on our characters and put a lot of time into them! The player base is ample enough to keep you running the servers even if you don't put out any regular updates at least keep the game going! I'm really kicking myself for buying guildwars 2 (which is fun  but does not live up to the hype IMO)! i wont play it now! Just like i will never play another SOE game, even though i love planetside ! I will not support a company that does this to their loyal customers!

 

Always sad to see a game no longer supported, but it has to happen eventually. It would be cool if they could somehow merge everyone onto 1 server and donate it to charity or something, everyone could pay like a dollar a month just for the bandwith/maintence.

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

If it was profitable, they wouldn't be shutting it down. End of story on that point.

The last I heard was that City of Heroes was netting $2.5 million dollars a quarter.  That's $10 million a year.

It was profitable.

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

If it was profitable, they wouldn't be shutting it down. End of story on that point.

Define "profitable" - sometimes the worst crime for a company owned by another is to make money, but not huge money. Not enough in to make them happy, not enough out to be a tax write off.

The thing that I find really odd is I can think of  a dozen MMO's off the top of my head that should be in front of City of Heroes on the chopping block. It's the best super hero MMO, Champions Online and DCUO should both be ahead of CoH to get the axe IMHO. Vanguard, Planetside, Warhammer, Guildwars 1, Ultima Online, Star Trek Online, Aion, etc...

It's a real confidence shaker in NCSoft for me. They seem to be able to kill games and not even flinch.

 

DCUO's made major strides and honestly their model is probably better finanically than COH. But damn they're doing well. However as someone who swore off games when they killed auto assault for no apparent reason i'm not holding my breath of this being saved. Barring them having a multimillionare in their ranks that could buy Paragon outright and put this game back on course.

 

AA, Tabula Rasa and now COH. I was done with them after the TR info got loose. If this game gets saved and freed from the clutches of NC soft i'll be a very happy person and might pick this up./

 

On the topic of other games: STO's also made major improvements. The rest however? Planetside will die when Planetside 2 hits. Vanguard and Warhammer...well warhammer is BARELY above the rumored levels for white wolf to take it back. But White Wolf is most definetly NOT pleased with how EA handled that 

I love CoH and all, but the game should be laid to rest.  It would need a major update for people to get interested.

 

Sorry, the first MMO i really got behind was CoH so im sad to see it go. But really it had its time, now give it rest.

NCSoft has there hand in so many cookies jars right now this game is just probably one of the smallest income yelders in its portfolio and just decided to cut the coord. Sad but NCSoft has a ton of good titles that just came out (gw2). Many more coming out as well (BnS)

I will repeat what I said in the other thread that there will be consumer backlash in the coming years over issues like this..

 

Could see game studios eventually getting in trouble over this especially as the number of MMOs that close down increases and there is an organized consumer backlash.

Many decades ago a similar problem hit the auto industry. The issue was that car companies would stop selling parts for cars that were no longer in production. The car manufacturers took the position that they sold the consumer the car and that they were under no obligation to supply parts for cars they no longer produced even if large numbers of these cars were still in use. Eventually consumers got tired of digging through junk yards looking for spare parts and got an advocacy group to hire some laywers. It was ruled in a few states courts that car companies had to continue producing spare parts for older cars at least 12 years after production ceased.

Some similar ruling will likely come down on the gaming industry to keep legacy servers up and running even after they offially shut down a MMO.

I was in this game since its first closed beta and stayed there for 5+ years.

Still having tons of characters there and jumping in once in a while to meet friends, play a bit with my characters and I even bought a new powersets or two the last few months as also reactivated slots that were closed when I dropped my vip status.

This game is one of my favorite mmos ever, it's innovative, was the first super hero mmo ever, had revolutionary systems and even added more systems that no other mmo ever had and still doesn't have (mission architect and base building by creating rooms and everything as example).

When I heard that they are closing the game a few weeks ago I felt very sad because there are other mmos out there that aren't even half as fun as this one and are kept alive while such a great game like CoH/CoV gets dropped just like that.

I would strongly reccommend everyone that ever cared about this game to gather together and do their best to save it cause its one of the most unique and innovative games on the market that deserves to be saved in my opinion.

Sorry for the double post, at work and the browser is acting up. :(

Originally posted by Alphamojo
I love CoX, but sometimes you just have to let go! If you do, perhaps a future development will spring forth from your sacrifice!!

Yeah, because all those post WoW MMOs have been so good...oh wait. They've all been abysmal.

I hope the gamer community can support us by signing the petition. We're not asking them to like our game, or even play it if they pledge to support us and take three seconds out of their day to sign the petition, but we need for them to back us.

Closing down City of Heroes isn't a business decision. It's an act of vandalism.

We need to show the companies that run these games that turning off a world that people have spent years of their lives and hundreds - if not thousands - of dollars in should be the last resort, not the first. There are people there who have spent thousands of hours in a virtual reality, spent real life money making their characters as good as they can be. We're the people who stayed with them - we didn't go to their competitors, we didn't ditch the game because it's dated, because the population wasn't as high as it was on other games. In many cases, we carried on paing a subscription despite the fact we didn't have to, because we wanted to support the people that had given us such a wonderful world to explore and stay with the friends we made their.

We companies to realise that gamers aren't just a revenue stream - that those monthly subscriptions - whatever game it is - is a kid who's being picked on in school, but in a virtual world, he's a badass almost unbeatable PvP champion.Or is someone confined to their house because they're ill and it's the only contact they have with an outside world, that it's the army wife looking for a distraction while her husband is off risking his life in a desert somewhere.

Our gaming tastes may be different, but the reasons we're in virtual words aren't.

We need to show that we're not just pixels, that we're a real life community - CoX has a population the size Spain, and we're just going to be wiped off the map. Just because we show up as pixels on a screen, it doesn't make us any less REAL.

We want to show companies that closing a game doesn't HAVE to tear gaming communities in part, that they should work with their players, perhaps give them ownership of the bases and the groups and the characters and the stuff they've poured time, effort, money and tears into. Offer us up for sale, give us the chance to raise the money and run the game ourselves, let us have private servers so we can stay together.

I'm not sure where you work, but would your company turn away an almost $10 million yearly profit? If you're so well placed that you wouldn't notice losing that amount of money, what harm is there in offering us up for sale, or giving us a chance to buy it and walk away with a wedge of money in their back pocket and a delirious player-base?

Please remember, this isn't JUST about City of Heroes. One day your game will face this, too. We want to be a model that threatened gaming communities can hold up and say 'look, you don't have to wipe us off the face of the earth. How about doing /this/ instead?"

If you don't like the game, if you never even played it, surely you can support the wider principal of 'don't take our money for years and then close down a profitable, virtual world with a rabid fan base'

Please sign our petition. One day you'll need us to back you, as much as we need you to back us know.

http://www.change.org/petitions/ncsoft-keep-ncsoft-from-shutting-down-city-of-heroes#://

Originally posted by adam_nox

I wish they'd keep paragon, put CoH1 in service mode, work on a sequel of some sort.  This is really what they should have been doing after CoV came out, or possibly going rogue.  This latest xpack was just not needed.  What it needs is a reboot.

 

But just off and firing everyone.  I read someone post a good theory that perhaps NCsoft is pulling out of NA affairs altogether, which would be very interesting.

Correct!  It's NCsoft's way of doing things. They want to pull out of the west. They closed down the NCWest studio as well after the shutdown of Tabula Rasa.

Paragon studios was created and thus owned by NCSoft. So NCSoft can do whatever they want with Paragon Studios and CoX franshise.

And in this case they have set their mind on closing it down and no one will be able to change that.

It's just better for your own health sake to just let it go and move on.

ArenaNet will follow the same faith in the future when the Guild Wars franchise doesn't bring in enough money anymore.

 

Originally posted by Notacatgirl
I hope the gamer community can support us by signing the petition. We're not asking them to like our game, or even play it if they pledge to support us and take three seconds out of their day to sign the petition, but we need for them to back us.

Closing down City of Heroes isn't a business decision. It's an act of vandalism.

We need to show the companies that run these games that turning off a world that people have spent years of their lives and hundreds - if not thousands - of dollars in should be the last resort, not the first. There are people there who have spent thousands of hours in a virtual reality, spent real life money making their characters as good as they can be. We're the people who stayed with them - we didn't go to their competitors, we didn't ditch the game because it's dated, because the population wasn't as high as it was on other games. In many cases, we carried on paing a subscription despite the fact we didn't have to, because we wanted to support the people that had given us such a wonderful world to explore and stay with the friends we made their.

We companies to realise that gamers aren't just a revenue stream - that those monthly subscriptions - whatever game it is - is a kid who's being picked on in school, but in a virtual world, he's a badass almost unbeatable PvP champion.Or is someone confined to their house because they're ill and it's the only contact they have with an outside world, that it's the army wife looking for a distraction while her husband is off risking his life in a desert somewhere.

Our gaming tastes may be different, but the reasons we're in virtual words aren't.

We need to show that we're not just pixels, that we're a real life community - CoX has a population the size Spain, and we're just going to be wiped off the map. Just because we show up as pixels on a screen, it doesn't make us any less REAL.

We want to show companies that closing a game doesn't HAVE to tear gaming communities in part, that they should work with their players, perhaps give them ownership of the bases and the groups and the characters and the stuff they've poured time, effort, money and tears into. Offer us up for sale, give us the chance to raise the money and run the game ourselves, let us have private servers so we can stay together.

I'm not sure where you work, but would your company turn away an almost $10 million yearly profit? If you're so well placed that you wouldn't notice losing that amount of money, what harm is there in offering us up for sale, or giving us a chance to buy it and walk away with a wedge of money in their back pocket and a delirious player-base?

Please remember, this isn't JUST about City of Heroes. One day your game will face this, too. We want to be a model that threatened gaming communities can hold up and say 'look, you don't have to wipe us off the face of the earth. How about doing /this/ instead?"

If you don't like the game, if you never even played it, surely you can support the wider principal of 'don't take our money for years and then close down a profitable, virtual world with a rabid fan base'

Please sign our petition. One day you'll need us to back you, as much as we need you to back us know.

http://www.change.org/petitions/ncsoft-keep-ncsoft-from-shutting-down-city-of-heroes#://

 

This petition isn't going to do any good.

This is just Real Life and how companies work.

NCSoft looks at how many players play the game and how much money comes in.

If only 50k players are playing CoX..... it doesn't matter if a million people sign a petition or the whole world!

In the end all that matters is the "actual" number of people that play and pay for the game!

That's all that matters for NCSoft.  So give it a rest. It's better for your own health! As NCSoft doesn't care.

Things have been decided, set in motion and are irreversible. The game is shutting down and the poor peeps at Paragon Studios are going to lose their job. And that is just a Fact!

Originally posted by JeroKane

Originally posted by Notacatgirl
I hope the gamer community can support us by signing the petition. We're not asking them to like our game, or even play it if they pledge to support us and take three seconds out of their day to sign the petition, but we need for them to back us.

Closing down City of Heroes isn't a business decision. It's an act of vandalism.

We need to show the companies that run these games that turning off a world that people have spent years of their lives and hundreds - if not thousands - of dollars in should be the last resort, not the first. There are people there who have spent thousands of hours in a virtual reality, spent real life money making their characters as good as they can be. We're the people who stayed with them - we didn't go to their competitors, we didn't ditch the game because it's dated, because the population wasn't as high as it was on other games. In many cases, we carried on paing a subscription despite the fact we didn't have to, because we wanted to support the people that had given us such a wonderful world to explore and stay with the friends we made their.

We companies to realise that gamers aren't just a revenue stream - that those monthly subscriptions - whatever game it is - is a kid who's being picked on in school, but in a virtual world, he's a badass almost unbeatable PvP champion.Or is someone confined to their house because they're ill and it's the only contact they have with an outside world, that it's the army wife looking for a distraction while her husband is off risking his life in a desert somewhere.

Our gaming tastes may be different, but the reasons we're in virtual words aren't.

We need to show that we're not just pixels, that we're a real life community - CoX has a population the size Spain, and we're just going to be wiped off the map. Just because we show up as pixels on a screen, it doesn't make us any less REAL.

We want to show companies that closing a game doesn't HAVE to tear gaming communities in part, that they should work with their players, perhaps give them ownership of the bases and the groups and the characters and the stuff they've poured time, effort, money and tears into. Offer us up for sale, give us the chance to raise the money and run the game ourselves, let us have private servers so we can stay together.

I'm not sure where you work, but would your company turn away an almost $10 million yearly profit? If you're so well placed that you wouldn't notice losing that amount of money, what harm is there in offering us up for sale, or giving us a chance to buy it and walk away with a wedge of money in their back pocket and a delirious player-base?

Please remember, this isn't JUST about City of Heroes. One day your game will face this, too. We want to be a model that threatened gaming communities can hold up and say 'look, you don't have to wipe us off the face of the earth. How about doing /this/ instead?"

If you don't like the game, if you never even played it, surely you can support the wider principal of 'don't take our money for years and then close down a profitable, virtual world with a rabid fan base'

Please sign our petition. One day you'll need us to back you, as much as we need you to back us know.

http://www.change.org/petitions/ncsoft-keep-ncsoft-from-shutting-down-city-of-heroes#://

 

This petition isn't going to do any good.

This is just Real Life and how companies work.

NCSoft looks at how many players play the game and how much money comes in.

If only 50k players are playing CoX..... it doesn't matter if a million people sign a petition or the whole world!

In the end all that matters is the "actual" number of people that play and pay for the game!

That's all that matters for NCSoft.  So give it a rest. It's better for your own health! As NCSoft doesn't care.

Things have been decided, set in motion and are irreversible. The game is shutting down and the poor peeps at Paragon Studios are going to lose their job. And that is just a Fact!

 

What is good for your health is to give it a try and save it, especially when peoples jobs are on the line here, and the masses amount of money people have spent on the game building their caharcters.

If you do try and it does get saved, then you feel awesome. If it does not save it, then at least you know you did your best, and not live in regret, and can move on.

Other petitions have worked in the past, as EQmac is an example of that  It took 2 over weeks for Smedley to change his mind, this is only just 1 week now.

Plus Paragon Studios are trying their best to keep it going, and encouraging people to save CoH

So there is a more greater chance this will work, and City of Heroes be saved.

I get fed up of people telling people to let it go, and move on, especially this soon, when there is still a chance of it not shutting down.

If City of Heroes shuts down, then I give up on MMOs completely now, not just NC Soft ones, but all of them (although NC soft ones mainly), as they in the end do you no good. Lately they keep you hooked and paying of course, by giving a false sense of security, that things are still ticking along nicely with updates coming. Also in this case people lose their jobs too.

Oh bafd news!

NCSoft closing CoX isn't the same as SoE closing SWG; LucasArts pulled SoE's SW licence, part of the agreement with EA no doubt. Once LucasArts did that SoE had no choice. 

Could CoX be saved? Doubtful. There would have to be some guaranteed income: maybe if NCSoft offered people the option of  1 year sub for 2013 @ $X and people could make pledges. If the amount pladged was enough CoX survives, if not adieu.

Time will be running out though - the team will start to wind down - and how much would be needed; 80 staff @ $100k each as a starting point say (to cover wages etc. and expenses) + profit and licence costs. Call it $10M as a round figure.

Could CoX get 55,000 people to pledge $180 for a year - the equivalent of $15 a month? Doubtful. Maybe costs could be cut back though so that less was needed. It would take something like this however imo. 

I'm not a fan of the game, but I signed the petetion. I feel for the community and hope they will be able to save their game. It's a shame that they won't allow the community to at least run private servers if nothing else. Best of luck!