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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » I am SICK and TIRED of the "more difficult" crowd

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320 posts found
  maji

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/15/04
Posts: 1823

9/06/12 9:05:05 AM#221
Higher difficulty is a great thing, if the game is created in such a way, that it motivates people to team up to overcome hard encounters.

Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)

Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)

  Onigod

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/24/07
Posts: 675

9/06/12 9:08:09 AM#222

Hahahah after lvl 16 unplayable?:)  Maybe you should l2p a bit more and go to a diffrent zone before entering the 15-25 (or whatever it is zone) instead of rushing to it after completing the first zone.

I dont even understand how you keep dieing at 16 tho.. its so easy..

And if difficulty makes you want to stop playing a game and rage please quit playing ANY games at all. gaming is about difficulty and taking steps to overcome that. Remember those old console games? now those were DIFFICULT! yet with the right mind set beatable and when you finally did so you had alot of fun.

You want to feel the hero? what you want is rush trough content without expieriencing any difficulty at all.  From ur posts im sure u also have to spend hours to complete these simple puzzles all over the place.

 

Funny part is you are even mad about it, Its not the way you want it so you talk about those that do want a difficult game like they are the "bad" guys.. and you say the game wanting to be a espost is a bad thing.. you do realise the esport part is spvp and those pro esport players dont even touch the pve content? right?  I think this game is very easily and i play solo and never try to find a group.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17994

9/06/12 10:24:22 AM#223
Originally posted by nilden
 

Diablo 3 being listed on this site has nothing to do with what type of game it is. It's also nothing close to an MMO like WoW. I mean seriously would you consider Diablo 2, Titan Quest, Magicka or any other hack and slash just add required online play and an auction house an MMO? No, no rational person would.

Think about what you do in WOW, and what you do in D3. Aside from teh viewpoint, and different combat mechanics (which are different from one MMO to another ANYWAY), there are a lot of similarity.

1) You form small groups to run dungeons. There are boss encounters that are more difficult than others.

2) You can solo quest to level

3) you can craft

4) you can trade in a AH

5) The ONLY major gameplay element missing in D3, compared to WOW, is instanced PVP, which will be added.

6) There is a global chat channel

Now you do not have a world to roam in D3, but that is a small part of the gameplay in WOW, particularly in end game.

It is just semantics. So what D3 is not a MMO. D3 is an online MP RPG. MMORPG is a subset of online multiplayer RPG. A lot of WOW players are D3 players (at least 1.2M of them, if not more). So comparing D3 difficulty and MMO difficulty is appropriate.

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17994

9/06/12 10:25:39 AM#224
Originally posted by Onigod

And if difficulty makes you want to stop playing a game and rage please quit playing ANY games at all. gaming is about difficulty and taking steps to overcome that. Remember those old console games? now those were DIFFICULT! yet with the right mind set beatable and when you finally did so you had alot of fun.

No. Gaming is about being entertained and having fun. Some, like you, have fun overcoming difficulty.

Some don't.

Obviously if a game is TOO difficult, it is not fun. So it is in the eye of the beholder.

  Thorbrand

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/04
Posts: 1217

9/06/12 10:32:40 AM#225
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Onigod

And if difficulty makes you want to stop playing a game and rage please quit playing ANY games at all. gaming is about difficulty and taking steps to overcome that. Remember those old console games? now those were DIFFICULT! yet with the right mind set beatable and when you finally did so you had alot of fun.

No. Gaming is about being entertained and having fun. Some, like you, have fun overcoming difficulty.

Some don't.

Obviously if a game is TOO difficult, it is not fun. So it is in the eye of the beholder.

Incorrect sir! A game is something that is challenging, mental or physical, the requires you to beat challenges or a level of skill to compete. Tell me one game that is just there to entertain? There are none because than it isn't a game. You are thinking movies and such not games.

I think we need to look up the definition of a game.

Key components of games are goals, rules, challenge, and interaction. Games generally involve mental or physical stimulation, and often both. Many games help develop practical skills, serve as a form of exercise, or otherwise perform an educational, simulational, or psychological role.

There you go! Now you know what a game is.

  Krystalmyth

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/12
Posts: 13

9/06/12 12:41:08 PM#226
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Onigod

And if difficulty makes you want to stop playing a game and rage please quit playing ANY games at all. gaming is about difficulty and taking steps to overcome that. Remember those old console games? now those were DIFFICULT! yet with the right mind set beatable and when you finally did so you had alot of fun.

No. Gaming is about being entertained and having fun. Some, like you, have fun overcoming difficulty.

Some don't.

Obviously if a game is TOO difficult, it is not fun. So it is in the eye of the beholder.

Google defines game as:

game

Noun:
A form of play or sport, esp. a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
 
Adjective:
  1. Eager and willing to do something new or challenging: "they were game for anything".
  2. (of a person's leg) Permanently injured; lame.
 
In essence a game has to have a challenge bar to be considered as such. It requires skill, either mental or physical which can show prowess. It can be competetive with other people, or with oneself such as a time trial or a point goal such as a game like Galaga, Pacman.
 
The earliest games were simple in design. Mario Bros, the original was a head to head game involving nothing but jumping. Very simplistic. Also very difficult, and very competetive head to head. A game has to have relative challenge. A book or movie is meant to entertain.
 
Though games have recently strived to be more like movies to appeal to a demographic like yourself (possible, you left plenty of room to backpedal) who otherwise may not have played them, not all game designers are so quick to throw out gaming values in an attempt for higher sales, and for that I thank Arenanet.
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17994

9/06/12 12:49:51 PM#227
Originally posted by Thorbrand
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Onigod

And if difficulty makes you want to stop playing a game and rage please quit playing ANY games at all. gaming is about difficulty and taking steps to overcome that. Remember those old console games? now those were DIFFICULT! yet with the right mind set beatable and when you finally did so you had alot of fun.

No. Gaming is about being entertained and having fun. Some, like you, have fun overcoming difficulty.

Some don't.

Obviously if a game is TOO difficult, it is not fun. So it is in the eye of the beholder.

Incorrect sir! A game is something that is challenging, mental or physical, the requires you to beat challenges or a level of skill to compete. Tell me one game that is just there to entertain? There are none because than it isn't a game. You are thinking movies and such not games.

I think we need to look up the definition of a game.

Key components of games are goals, rules, challenge, and interaction. Games generally involve mental or physical stimulation, and often both. Many games help develop practical skills, serve as a form of exercise, or otherwise perform an educational, simulational, or psychological role.

There you go! Now you know what a game is.

Dear Esther ... there is zero difficulty, no skill involved,  you just walk around.

Heck, i will even give you TWO ...

Diablo 3 normal mode .. you just need to walk around, and click your left mouse button. There is no challenge. If you die, you just go again. No skill needed. The game did not get any challenge till much later (hell difficulty, probably).

Same with many shooter in easy/casual mode. You can rush through the COD campaign in easy mode. The point is to see all the sights and feel powerful, and there is no need to develop any skills.

 

  Kiljaedenas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/29/11
Posts: 411

9/06/12 12:51:20 PM#228

LMFAO!!! This is classic!!! I don't play GW2 or TSW though I've been curious about them and watching the forums, and they definitely sound like easy games to me.

Eli, (I'll use Eli because someone else called you that earlier), every single thing invented in all of human history that has the word "game" in its name has been a set of challenges of some form, be they intellectual, tactical, logistical, physical, dumb luck or any combination of the above, that a human being has to overcome to "win", as it were. There are always at minimum two sides on every game, sometimes more. One side is always a human or humans, the other side is either a human/humans as well, computer characters/code, or for the older non-electronic single player/single team games like board games (the Fighting Fantasy gamebooks from Steve Jackson and Ian Livingston come to mind in particular) the other "side" was simply a combination of the defined rules and logistics of the game plus the luck of the dice. A game = a challenge, a competition, against one or more opponents, plain and simple.

Humans as a whole usually enjoy the feeling of accomplishment that they get from successfully overcoming a challenge within the defined rules, or at the very least watching someone else do it. That's why sports are so bloody popular in every single country on the planet. The more difficult the challenge that they successfully overcome, the better the feeling of accomplishment, and vice versa. Some people crave that feeling of accomplishment almost like an addiction. MMOs in general seem to be getting easier and more predictable over the years, and I would like to say that overall, over time the general intelligence level of humans is increasing (some faster than others :) ). A more intelligent human needs a more difficult challenge to satisfy them when they beat it; if they just burn through it with barely any effort, it feels like more of a waste of time.

I'm (kind of) sorry that you've been having so much trouble with these games, but if you really can't handle the difficulty, well...sorry to say it, but tough shit. Try finding something more to your level, perhaps one of many single player games that have a difficulty setting option.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17994

9/06/12 12:53:38 PM#229
Originally posted by Kiljaedenas

I'm (kind of) sorry that you've been having so much trouble with these games, but if you really can't handle the difficulty, well...sorry to say it, but tough shit. Try finding something more to your level, perhaps one of many single player games that have a difficulty setting option.

Or a MMO with a difficulty setting.

LFR in WOW is pretty easy. My son can "play" it on AFK when he is doing homework. It cannot be more easy than that.

  KaosProphet

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/31/12
Posts: 383

9/06/12 2:10:08 PM#230
Originally posted by Thorbrand
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Onigod

And if difficulty makes you want to stop playing a game and rage please quit playing ANY games at all. gaming is about difficulty and taking steps to overcome that. Remember those old console games? now those were DIFFICULT! yet with the right mind set beatable and when you finally did so you had alot of fun.

No. Gaming is about being entertained and having fun. Some, like you, have fun overcoming difficulty.

Some don't.

Obviously if a game is TOO difficult, it is not fun. So it is in the eye of the beholder.

Incorrect sir! A game is something that is challenging, mental or physical, the requires you to beat challenges or a level of skill to compete. Tell me one game that is just there to entertain? There are none because than it isn't a game. You are thinking movies and such not games.

I think we need to look up the definition of a game.

Merriam Webster:

Definition of GAME

1(1) : activity engaged in for diversion or amusement : play(2) : the equipment for a game

 

Sorry kid, Narius got you on this one. Other definitions also exist, but his was valid.

  Cephus404

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3439

9/06/12 9:49:24 PM#231
Originally posted by maji
Higher difficulty is a great thing, if the game is created in such a way, that it motivates people to team up to overcome hard encounters.

Unless it forces you to play with people you can't stand and don't want to be around.  The majority of people in most MMOs are people I woldn't piss on if they were on fire.

That would only be beneficial if there was a wholly superior breed of MMO player in the game and I don't see that happening.

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3070

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

9/06/12 9:57:54 PM#232


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

Originally posted by Elikal

Originally posted by ForumPvP What happened to WoW,dumbed down to the bottom,this post doesnt make any sense.  
Dumbed down is good. Dumbed down is GREAT, because it makes me feel the HERO and not the useless twat I am for free in RL 24/7 already thank you very much.
 Clearly you aren't a hero if you need a game in easy mode to become a hero.   There are people who feel heroic and do amazing things in games that actually have any difficulty. This stems from the same thought process that led to not keeping score in kids sports so that no one felt bad. It creates generations of people who have no drive to overcome adversity and make something of themselves.   I say take every game out there and make it minimum 2-3x as hard as it is now and we might be getting close to the golden age of gaming.
No .. just no.

And no one is a real hero. We are talking about GAMES here. Make belief. People should have fun with them ... and not feel like the game is impossible.

 


There not make believe if your investing money in them.

Also, they were once virtual worlds...some people forget that.


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  Scot

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 4754

9/07/12 3:46:20 AM#233

In a game like Diablo you can't change the difficulty level. You can't do that in a MMO, so what difficulty a MMO is set at is far more important. For me a Diablo style look down view in a MMO is a step backward, full 3D replaced that view, lets go forward not backward.

The pressure to go backward comes from gaming companies wanting their game or elements of it to run on inferior technology. Old PC’s and consoles, browsers and mobile phones. The gaming industry needs to look forward to a new generation of games to amaze us, not spend all its time looking for new markets and tailoring its games so they fit those that use sub-standard tech.

  asdar

Novice Member

Joined: 11/07/05
Posts: 590

9/07/12 4:36:46 AM#234

There's so many easy games out there to play, but not that many difficult ones.

I'm playing TSW and GW2 and I'd still complain that they're too easy. If you want them to be easy then just hang out at your level for a while killing mobs.

Both games get easy if you stay in your level area just a bit longer. Don't fight mobs that are higher than your level and you'll move up faster in GW. The XP might be slightly lower, but you can easily mow down level mobs.

The dungeons are still difficult and PvP will always be difficult just by it's nature.

If you need a list of easier games then just click the Games list tab at the top of this page and subtract TSW, GW and Darkfall and you'll have a huge list.

Asdar

  User Deleted
9/07/12 4:50:03 AM#235
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Kiljaedenas

I'm (kind of) sorry that you've been having so much trouble with these games, but if you really can't handle the difficulty, well...sorry to say it, but tough shit. Try finding something more to your level, perhaps one of many single player games that have a difficulty setting option.

Or a MMO with a difficulty setting.

LFR in WOW is pretty easy. My son can "play" it on AFK when he is doing homework. It cannot be more easy than that.

Or, you know, you could just get better at the game?

 

If there are 10 dungeons in a game and 2 of them are very hard. Then there is your difficulty levels and there is your goal, you work at improving and then you do them and get a sense of achievement.

 

As opposed to running up to the dungeon door, switching the setting to "I am fking crap mode" (idiosyncratic difficulty levels ftw) and then running through it just so you can ram through the content as quickly as possible in order to jump on the next hype bandwagon game.

  dave6660

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/08
Posts: 2270

"Next time I see you, remind me not to talk to you."

9/07/12 12:57:04 PM#236
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by maji
Higher difficulty is a great thing, if the game is created in such a way, that it motivates people to team up to overcome hard encounters.

Unless it forces you to play with people you can't stand and don't want to be around.  The majority of people in most MMOs are people I woldn't piss on if they were on fire.

That would only be beneficial if there was a wholly superior breed of MMO player in the game and I don't see that happening.

That's a tad bit extreme.

You can try to breed your own race of Übermensch.  The last guy who tried something like that though wasn't very popular.

"Why so serious?"
-- The Joker

  Deivos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/14/04
Posts: 1700

Iarð skal rifna, ok upphiminn.

9/07/12 1:10:00 PM#237
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by maji
Higher difficulty is a great thing, if the game is created in such a way, that it motivates people to team up to overcome hard encounters.

Unless it forces you to play with people you can't stand and don't want to be around.  The majority of people in most MMOs are people I woldn't piss on if they were on fire.

That would only be beneficial if there was a wholly superior breed of MMO player in the game and I don't see that happening.

Don't really perceive that to be part of the problem of a more difficult game unless it's poorly implemented.

 

Take for example the game on most people's tongues, good or bad, Guild Wars 2.

 

Right off the bat you can turn around and fight enemies, champions, and bosses that are higher level and much tougher than you. One's that can curb stomp you in as little as one blow. I can see how that certainly implies a desire for allies, but it does not inherently require it.

That's what I like about the recent set of a few MMOs really. RaiderZ and Neverwinter both share some of these aspects where if you just watch where you are going and what the enemy does, you can somo things you yould be handily dying too in any other game that doesn't give you the mechanics to circumvent problems.

It makes the game harder in a challenging way, not just a statistical way.

 

And I really can't slight any game that manages to do so on that front. I still don't like games that increase difficulty by adding a bigger damage meter and health bar to creatures that are inflated versions of everything else. It's cheap and doesn't make it more challenging, just more tedious. But an enemy that poses an equal threat to you as you do it on average would provide better difficulty and challenge.

 

I'm all for increased difficulty in games, but it distinctly has to not be a copout.

As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero. - Vaarsuvius

  Kiljaedenas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/29/11
Posts: 411

9/07/12 7:12:54 PM#238
Originally posted by Elikal
Originally posted by ForumPvP

What happened to WoW,dumbed down to the bottom,this post doesnt make any sense.

 

Dumbed down is good. Dumbed down is GREAT, because it makes me feel the HERO and not the useless twat I am for free in RL 24/7 already thank you very much.

On a side note, from this comment of yours I'd say that games being too hard isn't really the core issue you have. It's obvious that you want something to make you feel important, either in real life or artificially in a game. Even if you were to find a game that gave you that feeling of being important, it's ultimately temporary and reality will come crashing in. Perhaps you should look into making yourself less of  "the useless twat I am for free in RL 24/7 already thank you very much."

I really am being sincere in this suggestion. A game really won't help you with this. If you don't feel like you're skilled at anything...get trained. School, seminars, what-have-you. Forge yourself into someone that people will take note of.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17994

9/08/12 12:04:22 AM#239
Originally posted by Nitth

 


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

Originally posted by Elikal

Originally posted by ForumPvP What happened to WoW,dumbed down to the bottom,this post doesnt make any sense.  
Dumbed down is good. Dumbed down is GREAT, because it makes me feel the HERO and not the useless twat I am for free in RL 24/7 already thank you very much.
 Clearly you aren't a hero if you need a game in easy mode to become a hero.   There are people who feel heroic and do amazing things in games that actually have any difficulty. This stems from the same thought process that led to not keeping score in kids sports so that no one felt bad. It creates generations of people who have no drive to overcome adversity and make something of themselves.   I say take every game out there and make it minimum 2-3x as hard as it is now and we might be getting close to the golden age of gaming.
No .. just no.

 

And no one is a real hero. We are talking about GAMES here. Make belief. People should have fun with them ... and not feel like the game is impossible.

 


 

There not make believe if your investing money in them.

Also, they were once virtual worlds...some people forget that.

You are kidding me. No one "invest" money in MMOs. You play for a game. No different than paying for a movie. Is movie not make-believe anymore? Plus, many MMOs are F2P .. you don't even have to pay.

There were ONCE virtual worlds ... so what .. they are no longer.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17994

9/08/12 12:07:09 AM#240
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Kiljaedenas

I'm (kind of) sorry that you've been having so much trouble with these games, but if you really can't handle the difficulty, well...sorry to say it, but tough shit. Try finding something more to your level, perhaps one of many single player games that have a difficulty setting option.

Or a MMO with a difficulty setting.

LFR in WOW is pretty easy. My son can "play" it on AFK when he is doing homework. It cannot be more easy than that.

Or, you know, you could just get better at the game?

 

If there are 10 dungeons in a game and 2 of them are very hard. Then there is your difficulty levels and there is your goal, you work at improving and then you do them and get a sense of achievement.

 

As opposed to running up to the dungeon door, switching the setting to "I am fking crap mode" (idiosyncratic difficulty levels ftw) and then running through it just so you can ram through the content as quickly as possible in order to jump on the next hype bandwagon game.

Or there are 5 dungeons in a game, and 3 different difficulties. You can work from LFR to normal to hard mode .. which is what people do in WOW.

And what is wrong if someone want to run easy mode. They can play the game ANYWAY they want. If they are having fun, who are you to say otherwise. In fact, Blizz is accommodating that by putting in easier mode.

If someone just want to run through the dungeon without get better at the game (and why should he? May be he is busy and what to do something else soon?), why shouldn't he be able to do that?

Games are entertainment product .. if someone likes to do that and find it fun, there is no reason not to let him.

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