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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Level scaling... Kind of a joke.

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53 posts found
  Jimmydean

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/21/04
Posts: 1295

 
OP  9/06/12 4:25:42 PM#41
Originally posted by Clocksimus

I am done replying to GW2 threads I think. I must have missed being hit by the hypnotoad that zapped people into this GW2 state of mind because, in defense they prove that what they saying is wrong but still continue to ignore fact that they proved their oppositions point.

It can't be easy and yet still hard.

You can't kill steal in GW2 so what is this point about preventing players from griefing lower levels?

The content is still blown though because it is easier anyways so again what is the point of this system?

You are rewarding higher lvl players in lower level zones in a system designed to prevent higher lvl players from camping lower level zones..... what?  Yes the system is partly deisgned to stop higher levels from griefing lower levels as they said that right?  If the content offered no rewards you'd think that would be a better method than giving them rewards.... but hey I'm sure this all makes sense to anyone  having a blast in GW2 so what other people think  is irrelevant.

GW2 is a great game. It's has its flaws like every game before it and hopefully they get fixed instead of being ignored untill everyone just gets tired of the game and quits.

Its pretty easy to see whats happening. People play the game, have a valid concern, back up valid concern with what they found in the game, and are belittled by people who have been reading developer hype rather than actually playing.

  Aelious

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2294

World > Quest Progression

9/06/12 4:27:37 PM#42
They already have a % in place for base stat scaling and there is already a % discrepancy between tiers of gear (13%) so they already have a stat "weight" for condition/boon #'s. It shouldn't be game braking to shave a % of gear stats when deleveling.
  Umbrood

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/03
Posts: 1841

9/06/12 4:39:22 PM#43
Originally posted by stratasaurus
Originally posted by Umbrood

I would imagine that if you equipped green or blue gear quite a few lvls below you things would be different.

The lvl scaling seems percentage based.

I assume at 80 you are in either yellow or orange lvl 80 gear, nicely glyphed to boot?

Most people while leveling are not in in equal lvl rare or exotics.

Probably meaning that your stats as a lvled down 20 something is way beyond that of an actual lvl 20 something.

I do not see a way to change the scaling system without making everything impossible to beat unless your gear is very very good at all lvls.

Making lvl 80 characters scale differently then 1-79 would be sort of a solution but that actually seems unfair to the lvl 80 crowd.

What solution to this would be acceptable?

Easy way to change it would be use a cap system instead of a % system.  So instead of cutting that 200 power in quarter to 50 for a level 20 zone just look at what level 20 gear gives players, lets say 30 power for example(I made up that number btw) then cap power at 30 for level 20 scaled zones.  This would be a lot more accurate then a % scaling system since % don't go up equally through the levels, it would however be much more work I'm sure.


Not a bad solution, but the cap would have to be the the highest possible you can get with "legit" gear.

As a lvl 20 in all lvl 20 rares, not sure if there are lvl 20 exotics, never seen one drop for sure ( I am lvl 54 only BTW )

Kind of negating a lot of that system, but not all of it, so your idea is a start.

Second step would perhaps be to scale traits differently, at lvl 80 you probably have 2x30 traits giving you 300+ in a bunch of main stats.

Even scaled down that is a lot of stat points a player at appropriate lvl do not have access to!

At my lvl though, and I clear every zone I am in, at lvl 54 I have perhaps done 5 hearts in lvl 35+ zones, I do not "pwn" mobs if I am scaled down 20 levels.

So for those of us still trying to lvl I think the current system is great.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Jerek_

I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

9/06/12 4:39:36 PM#44
Originally posted by Aelious
They already have a % in place for base stat scaling and there is already a % discrepancy between tiers of gear (13%) so they already have a stat "weight" for condition/boon #'s. It shouldn't be game braking to shave a % of gear stats when deleveling.

 

and what would happen if they did that? people would be on here bitching the game has no sense of power progression... It's a middle ground they found... The amount of armchair developers on here is getting crazy :)

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

9/06/12 4:46:39 PM#45

Lower level zones don't just have lower level content, they have EASIER content...on purpose.

The content is made easier because...

1.  Players of that level don't have the skills/traits that high level people have.

2.  It just makes sense that the game should become more challenging as your move up in level.

So I mean, yeah, if you take your fully traited and skilled level 80 into a level 10 zone, it's going to be easier.  What else would you expect :)?  The content there is designed so that level 3's with only auto-attack unlocked can handle it.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  Aelious

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2294

World > Quest Progression

9/06/12 4:48:43 PM#46
Aerowyn

It would be the same progression as there is already /shrug. Now I will agree that anything is a basis for complaining but armchair developing is a lot better than former.

Personally I am 27 so even going back to most content I don't notice a difference.
  Badaboom

Elite Member

Joined: 10/04/10
Posts: 2366

9/06/12 4:49:27 PM#47
Originally posted by Creslin321

Lower level zones don't just have lower level content, they have EASIER content...on purpose.

The content is made easier because...

1.  Players of that level don't have the skills/traits that high level people have.

2.  It just makes sense that the game should become more challenging as your move up in level.

So I mean, yeah, if you take your fully traited and skilled level 80 into a level 10 zone, it's going to be easier.  What else would you expect :)?  The content there is designed so that level 3's with only auto-attack unlocked can handle it.

Exactly this.  On top of that, his actual player skill would be a lot of better from all his playtime than when he just started.

Nitpicking.

  Jimmydean

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/21/04
Posts: 1295

 
OP  9/06/12 4:51:21 PM#48
Originally posted by Badaboom
Originally posted by Creslin321

Lower level zones don't just have lower level content, they have EASIER content...on purpose.

The content is made easier because...

1.  Players of that level don't have the skills/traits that high level people have.

2.  It just makes sense that the game should become more challenging as your move up in level.

So I mean, yeah, if you take your fully traited and skilled level 80 into a level 10 zone, it's going to be easier.  What else would you expect :)?  The content there is designed so that level 3's with only auto-attack unlocked can handle it.

Exactly this.  On top of that, his actual player skill would be a lot of better from all his playtime than when he just started.

Nitpicking.

I only asked what the point of it was. If it's going to be so easy it takes no effort at all, even if it is just because I am level 80, then whats the point of level scaling? 

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

9/06/12 4:55:08 PM#49
Originally posted by Jimmydean
Originally posted by Badaboom
Originally posted by Creslin321

Lower level zones don't just have lower level content, they have EASIER content...on purpose.

The content is made easier because...

1.  Players of that level don't have the skills/traits that high level people have.

2.  It just makes sense that the game should become more challenging as your move up in level.

So I mean, yeah, if you take your fully traited and skilled level 80 into a level 10 zone, it's going to be easier.  What else would you expect :)?  The content there is designed so that level 3's with only auto-attack unlocked can handle it.

Exactly this.  On top of that, his actual player skill would be a lot of better from all his playtime than when he just started.

Nitpicking.

I only asked what the point of it was. If it's going to be so easy it takes no effort at all, even if it is just because I am level 80, then whats the point of level scaling? 

 We said it would be easier...not that it would take no effort at all.

The OP grossly exaggerates how much easier it is.  You can't go up to a chamption mob and do one hundred blades and kill him, at least you can't at level 36 in the level 1 zone.  I don't know about level 80 but I highly doubt it.

Anyway, the points of the downscaling are...

1.  To make it so the world is completely open to you at high level.  Any zone you level or lower is valid for you to play in.  I personally am level 36 and still haven't left the 15-25 zones.

2.  To prevent high level people from trivializing low level events and ruining them for their intended players (cough, Rift, cought).

3.  To allow friends of different levels to PvE together.  My level 48 buddy can always PvE with my leve 36 War, that's pretty awesome.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  User Deleted
9/06/12 5:00:23 PM#50
Originally posted by Jimmydean
Originally posted by eggy08
Originally posted by Jimmydean
Originally posted by MosesZD
Originally posted by Clocksimus
Originally posted by Fdzzaigl

You are seriously over exaggerating OP, mobs do drop loot that scales to your level and in WoW they wouldn't even be able to hit you while you could 1 hit them with your auto-attack.

Yes it's much easier, but not to the level that you are suggesting.

So you guys can admit that its easier but not admit the system doesn't work? Even though the system was designed so that content would not be trivial?

 

Down-Leveling syetem: To make all content always require effort.

Down-Leveling system: Does not make all content always require effort.

Dwon-Level system - working as intended?

How?

 

See that tricky little word 'all?'    That's how I know you're not being honest.    Certainly not in light of ANet's stated goal and purpose which was to make the lower level zones remain relevant to players who have out-leveled them.

 

You can still be killed.   But you're much more powerful so it's more difficult for you to be killed.   Unike most MMOs where the starter area mobs can't even hurt you.

 

And it's not like they have never bothered to explain it...:

 

, BUT SHOULD STILL BE CHALLENGING TO PLAY.

 

Yea, this was my point all along.

A point you tried to make by using starter zones as your main grounding. Sorry, but can't take you seriously with that kind of information.

I actually moved on to a level 40 zone just to check out your theory. Do mobs have more HP than lower level zones? Yep. Do I still kill them 10x faster than I did at that level? Yep. Do I have any worries of dying no matter how much of something I pull? Nope. 

Does this defeat the entire purpose of level scaling? Yep. 

I'll let ya know as soon as I see a lvl 70+ item drop. Don't hold your breath.

I'm going to blow your mind here. So get ready.

Let's use your entire basis as an example. You are telling me that you are using your greatsword skill hundred blades as a one shotter. Fair enough, I have plenty of time used on that skill as GS is literally my main weapon as my level 80 warrior. So let's play your game here.

You start out in the zone of level 40s or below, don't care where, lets just go with level 40. Do the mobs have much CC to punish you, probably not so let's take the example of no cc. You go around and round up 4-5 mobs, none have cc and u press your 2 key for your GS, watch the animation go and all the mobs are close to dead so you whirlwind your way throu them and bam all gone. Why is this not the case for level 80 mobs?

Let's go to level 80 zone now, almost every mob has some sort of CC. You pull 3-4 mobs, you round them up and you press 2... crap, CC'd that goes on CD, so now you whirlwind throu them and try to makeup for the loss of damage. But sadly you can't as easily. You might be able to kill these same 3-4 mobs, but it takes longer and you get closer to dying.

What is different in these situations you might ask? Well taking your skill hundred blades, which does ungodly damage but at what cost? Oh, that's right, you can't dodge with it or move your character like with other skills. So the likeliness you get off a full hundred blades in level 80 after rounding up a few mobs is much less likely than in level 40. So... you are using a skill that favors damage over survivability. One that I used from 1-80 the whole way throu, and was able to solo 3-4, even up to 6 mobs by myself using that and a mace. Would I be able to get full combo off everytime on all mobs? No, but it was possible for me to still kill everything.

You can't expect the same experience from a level 1 zone to a level 80 zone. Challenging is literally stating that you cannot and will not one shot a mob just because it is lower level than you and they still do some damage to you back. Will it play out like everything else? No. But again, you are experienced with your class at this point, or at least I assume so. I could solo packs of 4-5 mobs throughout playing, solo veterans without any issues, and 2-3 man champions at higher levels. So I don't get your point at all. This game was never challeging for me at all when fighting only 1-3 mobs. Nor was it super challenging fighting a veteran by myself. So why would I assume that if I go back to where I was at before, I would get a completely different experience than when I started.

  Badaboom

Elite Member

Joined: 10/04/10
Posts: 2366

9/06/12 5:00:59 PM#51
Originally posted by Jimmydean
Originally posted by Badaboom
Originally posted by Creslin321

Lower level zones don't just have lower level content, they have EASIER content...on purpose.

The content is made easier because...

1.  Players of that level don't have the skills/traits that high level people have.

2.  It just makes sense that the game should become more challenging as your move up in level.

So I mean, yeah, if you take your fully traited and skilled level 80 into a level 10 zone, it's going to be easier.  What else would you expect :)?  The content there is designed so that level 3's with only auto-attack unlocked can handle it.

Exactly this.  On top of that, his actual player skill would be a lot of better from all his playtime than when he just started.

Nitpicking.

I only asked what the point of it was. If it's going to be so easy it takes no effort at all, even if it is just because I am level 80, then whats the point of level scaling? 

Because it is much better than fighting a greyed out mob, that gives you nothing, does no damage to you, you one shot it.  For example, I ran into a skritt cave last night and they did not pose much of a challenge.  Then the mobs started to all be veterans and were to much for me.  I ran to the mouth of the cave and saw this guardian fighting.  A chat bubble conversation later, him and I are piling skrit bones along the cave floor and find this big chest at the end.  All....VERY cool. 

  Adiaris

Novice Member

Joined: 10/12/08
Posts: 382

9/06/12 5:03:00 PM#52
Originally posted by Jimmydean
Originally posted by Fdzzaigl

You are seriously over exaggerating OP, mobs do drop loot that scales to your level and in WoW they wouldn't even be able to hit you while you could 1 hit them with your auto-attack.

Yes it's much easier, but not to the level that you are suggesting.

I wish you could log onto a character that is actually level 80.  I literally press 1 button, 1 button. It kills whatever I'm tagetting and hits in a cone aoe. And like I said, after a couple hours of going back in time to do level scaled content, I've yet to see anything anywhere near my level drop. 

100 blades is the problem, not the level scaling

  SysOpPsyche

Novice Member

Joined: 8/25/07
Posts: 103

9/06/12 5:05:55 PM#53


Originally posted by Jimmydean
Ok so I recently hit level 80. I finished up my main story quest minus the dungeon boss at the end.

I enjoy exploration, so I decided I'd go back and explore all of the zones I missed on my way to 80. I figured with this amazing level scaling system, these zones would still provide challenges and I'd get to explore.

I was half right. You can definitely go back and explore zones, same as you can in any other game. Where I was wrong was thinking it would be any challenge at all. I have yet to find a mob, Veteran, Champion, Group Event, or otherwise that isn't absolutely demolished by Hundred Blades even though I am scaled to their level. I literally feel like a level 85 running around in the lvl 10 zones in World of Warcraft demolishing everything in my path. 

So I ask, what's the point of level scaling?  Events give about 2k xp, compared to 18-20k at my real level. Items that drop are based on the zones level, not yours. 

The only events that I know of to have scalable loot are the later on dragon meta events - The Shatterer, etc. 


Most loot is scaled to the level range of the zone [usually the trash loot] with reward and some random loot being at your level (though skinned according to the area) thats usually high grade loot.

I haven't noticed a significant difference in experience gain at level 50 in low level zones versus zones at my level. The challenge is typically greater in zones my level though, depending on the 'lay of the land'/zone map - ie. if my setup works well against the type of mobs and situations I'll encounter then I'll do well (and this holds true even when I go into higher than my level zones) whereas if my setup doesn't mesh with the zone well I'll do badly regardless of level of the zone.

For me the leveling scaling makes 'Level' largely redundant in gameplay but still present as 'progression' [kind of like achievement unlocks and that].


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