At this point in time we've seen many spins on the progression model. We have purely vertical progression games like WoW/SWTOR where it's all about getting all the abilities/best gear for your class. This usually takes a while to obtain and significantly increases the performance of your class/character.

We've seen more horizontal progression games like EVE and MxO (and TSW to a much smaller extent), where players can eventually have everything, but there's a limit to how many things you can use at a given time. In these types of games it's relatively easy to reach peak performance/obtain abilities/gear for a particular role. Any additional playtime doesn't necessarily improve that role, but instead lets you expand into other roles horizontally. 

We also have games with no progression other than cosmetics like we've seen recently with GW2's sPvP, where you start the game with all the abilities/gear unlocked, and anything you obtain is purely cosmetic and doesn't necessarily improve your character or its ability to perform different roles.

The question is, which one do you prefer? Vertical, horizontal, no progression other than cosmetic? Maybe some other type of prgression I'm not listing? Feel free to share your $0.02.

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Very gradual gear curve e.g. daoc pre toa or coh.

However rather have horizontal over your typical wow style verticality any day.

I agree, I really enjoyed DAOC's multi-tiered progression system. 

Gear mattered some, but t was more about putting together the right mix of dropped/player crafted items to get an optimized build (we spent a lot of time using spreadsheet tools to calculate everything, take that EVE haters).

Couple that with the level cap of 50, however the additional realm rank abilities you earned from your PVP activities that could be focused into skills that improved your abillity to PVP or PVE.

As mentioned, this was all good until the TOA expansion came out and wrecked the balance, but I'd like to see a game with a similar style.

EVE's more horizontal progression (once you get a baseline amount of time in it) also works well and I enjoy that system as well.

Originally posted by SuprGamerX
Time based EVE-Online style all the way baby~!     You can jump right into gold grinding to buy ships and fit them and party up with pals to PvP. No mindless EXP grindings for "level ups".  The true way a MMO is meant to be~!

The more I look at it , the less I feel like playing End of Nations , because I'm playing Alpha/betas , and EoN will end up being that type of game , where you level up through battles , win or lose there is no difference.   In EVE-Online when your able to out tactical a 80mil SP pilot with your 20mil SP toon , it's always a cool feeling :D

Vertical.

To me, the game is about to become more powerful, and facing increasingly difficult encounters.

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Tsw unfortunately is vertical progression, with the different tiers if gear. Wish they left it at QL10 and not made 10.4 etc.. will get worse with expansion.

I agree, which is why I specified that TSW was only horizontal to a minor extent. The reason it's somewhat horizontal is due to the ability wheel. It's realtively easy to max out two weapons for you to use. After that unlocking additonal abilities won't necessarily make you more powerful with those two weapons, but instead gives you the flexibility to switch to other weapons if you choose. That's horizontal progression.

The vertical progression comes from the 10.4 gear grind. I too would've preferred if the gear had stayed at QL10 and they had focused on horizontal progression more, unfortunately the game wasn't designed for that. I find horizontal progression to be the best since it still gives you a bit of vertical progression at the beginning, enough to remind you that you're still playing an RPG game, but doesn't turn the game into the gear grind/race to the top that's very punishing for new players looking to get into these types of purely vertical progression MMOs.

I prefer zero traditional progression in the sense of character stats/skills and items (so "none" from your options). Combined with crafting/economic/territory/social progression within the game world.

You can quite easily have more challenging encounters, but it would be about player skill to overcome them, not having 4000 more hitpoints.

I prefer if it was both vertical and horizontal.

Vertical progression would allow me to obtain more options and variety. Different abilties, skills, modifiers, whatever, as long as it's not gamebreaking. I like trying some alts, but am more of a 1 character guy, so, having different paths for 1 avatar to develop is great.

However, gaining incredicle power is always nice. Make it on a timer. Like, allow me to obtain a weapon or skll or anything that i can feel really strong and that takes time to get to make it worth, but not enough to ruin everything. So, long cooldown when used for 3 minutes, for example.

This way, i can get both variety and power at the same time, unlocking 2 different roads to "grind" and keeping playing.

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

I prefer zero traditional progression in the sense of character stats/skills and items (so "none" from your options). Combined with crafting/economic/territory/social progression within the game world.

 

You can quite easily have more challenging encounters, but it would be about player skill to overcome them, not having 4000 more hitpoints.

That would be "other", none would be games akin to online shooters or GW2's sPvP where there's literally no progression whatsover outside of fluff, different skins, etc.

Crafting, economy, and territory are all forms of progression.

I like vertical progression but I like shallow vertical progression.  Think EQ1 for the first couple years of its existence.  The difference between a raid geared player, a low end raid geared player, and a player with no raid gear was there, but it wasn't huge.  People were still raiding Hate and Fear, Vex Thal, and Plane of Time years after they were "current" content because the gear obtained from those zones was still relevant.  Same goes for grouping zones.  Lower Guk, Sebilis, Karnor's, etc, were all still popular for several expansions after they came out.

Later on they started getting into gear resets where each expansion makes all the previous expansions essentially obsolete, which I hate.

Originally posted by sirphobos

I like vertical progression but I like shallow vertical progression.  Think EQ1 for the first couple years of its existence.  The difference between a raid geared player, a low end raid geared player, and a player with no raid gear was there, but it wasn't huge.  People were still raiding Hate and Fear, Vex Thal, and Plane of Time years after they were "current" content because the gear obtained from those zones was still relevant.  Same goes for grouping zones.  Lower Guk, Sebilis, Karnor's, etc, were all still popular for several expansions after they came out.

Later on they started getting into gear resets where each expansion makes all the previous expansions essentially obsolete, which I hate.

i completely agree w you

i like vertical progression but dislike big gear gaps - ideally should be no need for "gear resets"

For me, MMORPG has to have vertical progression. I would like to emphasize that I am not talking about gear grind a la WoW.

Without vertical progression, the MMO is as shallow as RTS or FPS, in my opinion.

A perfect MMO for me would be one with very very longterm goals in terms of vertical progression. I did like gear system in Lineage 2 Chronicle 1, for instance. However, the way to obtain the gear was bad since it was a mindless grind for millions of hours. I liked that it was really hard to obtain the best gear. It would be much better if the way to get the gear was more interesting than just grind.

I do not think that it necessarily has to be only gear progression. It may be crafting, skills, some sort of talents, perks, or simply anything that makes your character stronger. It is what RPG in MMORPG is about for me, character progression which makes me stronger. The longer term goals, the better.

PS: sry for language and form, was in a hurry kind of :)

Originally posted by MMOwanderer

I prefer if it was both vertical and horizontal.

Vertical progression would allow me to obtain more options and variety. Different abilties, skills, modifiers, whatever, as long as it's not gamebreaking. I like trying some alts, but am more of a 1 character guy, so, having different paths for 1 avatar to develop is great.

However, gaining incredicle power is always nice. Make it on a timer. Like, allow me to obtain a weapon or skll or anything that i can feel really strong and that takes time to get to make it worth, but not enough to ruin everything. So, long cooldown when used for 3 minutes, for example.

This way, i can get both variety and power at the same time, unlocking 2 different roads to "grind" and keeping playing.

 

I share a similar preference. I like a bit of veritical progression in my MMORPGs, but not too much to be overly unbalanced. In my opinion it shouldn't take longer than a week to hit the cap from a vertical progression standpoint (i.e. reaching peak performance at a particular role). After that, progression should be all about expanding into different roles. 

The reason I'm not a big fan of the no progression model is because I enjoy unlocking new roles, new abilities, new territories, etc. It gives me a sense of "character growth" so to speak. I believe striving for something is a big part of the human condition, and that's what we do in real life, I don't see why it coulnd't be in-game either.

Needless to say, I'm all for class-less MMOs, with purely player driven crafting/economy. If I had to choose a model, I'd go with EVE's minus the real time to train part. I'd prefer a more "free" approach to unlocking things, maybe Skyrim's approach where you get better at something by doing it, instead of queueing up things from some window.

Originally posted by coretex666

For me, MMORPG has to have vertical progression. I would like to emphasize that I am not talking about gear grind a la WoW.

Without vertical progression, the MMO is as shallow as RTS or FPS, in my opinion.

A perfect MMO for me would be one with very very longterm goals in terms of vertical progression. I did like gear system in Lineage 2 Chronicle 1, for instance. However, the way to obtain the gear was bad since it was a mindless grind for millions of hours. I liked that it was really hard to obtain the best gear. It would be much better if the way to get the gear was more interesting than just grind.

I do not think that it necessarily has to be only gear progression. It may be crafting, skills, some sort of talents, perks, or simply anything that makes your character stronger. It is what RPG in MMORPG is about for me, character progression which makes me stronger. The longer term goals, the better.

PS: sry for language and form, was in a hurry kind of :)

I agree on the progression part being what makes MMORPGs unique. I don't agree on it being purely vertical because I find vertical progression to often be too unblanced and off-putting to new players. Like you, I'm all for playing the same character for years and watching it grow and become stronger, but I don't think it should become vertically stronger to the point that I'm considerably stronger than most other players playing the same role. I'd rather it be horizontally. It shouldn't be hard to max out a particular specialization or craft, so that it is easy for new players to quickly become the best one can be at something, but there should plenty of other specializations/crafts to let veteran players expand and grow their characters.

personally i prefer EvE's progression model with real time, off line, book reading. i also really like their specilizations so that if you want to get into only 1 or 2 specific aspects of gameplay you can do so in 2/3 months. however, to max out everything it will take a LOOOOONNNGGG time.

it's a really good system for mmos because nobody can rush to end game and get bored within the first 2 weeks, but those that stick with the game will eventually reap the rewards.