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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

Reviews & Impressions  » Somewhat lacks direction...

20 posts found
  Hell_Hammer

Novice Member

Joined: 7/21/12
Posts: 75

 
OP  9/05/12 7:52:02 PM#1

I'm coming to realize that the oft mentioned feeling of a lack of direction and the lack of progression is affecting me as well.

I find myself just running into things that are going on, killing a bunch of pirates/centaur/centaur pirates/whatever, with no idea whatsoever why am I doing that, getting a generic thank you letter with cash and moving on. 

Dynamic events as well, if you don't manage to catch them at their start and follow them through it's just a hackfest with some dudes. The legendarily hyped world-affecting changes are lacking and even if they are there, they reset so fast as not to have any real impact whatsoever.

Yes, I can go to the heart location and talk to the guy and get some flimsy excuse or something but it's still kind of out of context, out of touch with everything else. 

I've been doing a fair bit of exploring, without any rush, simply enjoying the scenery, when I finally realized that is all that it is - pretty scenery. I can't do anything with it. I rarely have any concrete reason to even be there except to see another hill or a melodramatic Vista cutscene. 

The "standard" quests that everyone seems to hate now at least give you a sense of direction and purpose for being someplace. They are used to guide you through the zone within at least some sort of context. Even the standard "Go and report to Commander Enpeecee at Generic Hold, they need help with pirates." gives some purpose to what you are doing.

I realize that many people will jump at the oppurtinity to call this restricting or hand-holding or something along those lines - but for me personally even that generic context adds to the flavor.

While the GW2 approach is undoubtedly freer, for me it is increasingly lacking any purpose.

I find myself fighting on some godforsaken hill slaughtering centaurs and realize I have no idea why I'm doing that. No one's paying me to do that, it's not even a heart and judging by the time I've spent up there there is no dynamic event about to bust out.

That part of the zone seems to be there just to...well, be there. Yeah, it's pretty, but I can admire digital hills and rivers for only so long.

And that feeling is something that pops up more and more often with more and more locations.

I dunno, really trying to get into it but it doesn't seem to be working.

  Jimmydean

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/21/04
Posts: 1302

9/05/12 7:56:11 PM#2
I kind of agree. I really enjoy the game, but it seems like they threw together a bunch of random DEs with Centaurs and/or Risen and called it a day. They turned exploration into a grind with the waypoints / PoIs / Vistas. Exploration was always nice in other games, but I find myself going to zones and looking at the map to see where I have to go next to finish it. Kind of defeats the purpose of exploration.
  yaoming36

Novice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 190

9/05/12 7:57:50 PM#3

[quote] killing a bunch of pirates/centaur/centaur pirates/whatever[/quote] From this it seems you are in low leveled zones. Devs have said many times that early zones are all about helping NPCs deal with immediate conflicts in that zone and aren't really "epic" in type. As you get higher leveled the fight becomes more and more about the elder dragons. 

 

A good example of this is the Level 40-50 zone where there is a shatterer boss fight. And I was similar to you in thinking this game lacks direction. What you fail to realize is that you are so used to MMOs hand holding you, telling you to go from location A to B when you reach certain level, that you have lost all the sense of wonder and discovery for yourself. 

 

[quote] Go and report to Commander Enpeecee at Generic Hold, they need help with pirates. [/quote] This is in game, look at top right corner. Always something like this there, defend, gather, escort etcetcetc.

If you still feed that there is no direction talk to the scouts, they give a detailed picture of whats happening in the zone and what NPCs need help where.

  meari

Novice Member

Joined: 4/14/12
Posts: 104

9/05/12 8:06:25 PM#4

Just a good tip about finding DEs. If you see a camp, wander around in it for 5-10min, grab a cup of coffee and listen to the NPC chatter. They'll give you very good hints and background about the area, and often a DE will start in the vicinity or even from the camp itself where NPC head out on attacks.

 

The key is, take it slow, treat Tyria as a living world. The amount of NPC chatter is astounding. DE won't be there when you look for them, but they come to you all the time when you stop looking.

  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

9/05/12 8:17:47 PM#5
Originally posted by yaoming36

If you still feed that there is no direction talk to the scouts, they give a detailed picture of whats happening in the zone and what NPCs need help where.

I think you totally missed by what he meant as 'lack of direction'.

  Kenze

Novice Member

Joined: 4/24/07
Posts: 1235

9/05/12 8:28:13 PM#6

i dont think its a lack of direction...but maybe an overload of direction. there is so much going on in so many places you sometimes feel carried along by the action instead of leading the way.

Ims till having a blast and Im  sure there is a lot of polish and fine tuning  coming and probably even a few complete revamped aspect of the game. No game is perfect but GW2 imop is the best of whats available.

Dont rush, dont skip stuff. Nothing but better things are coming.

Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits.
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
—Lao-Tze

  gessekai332

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/31/07
Posts: 872

9/05/12 8:30:48 PM#7
in the starter zones it feels like this but later on in the game the quests and dynamic events will start to have more of unifying goal. you will start to see enemies from various starter regions start to band together to combat civilization and you will start to see more and more of the presence of the underlying prime evil, the elder dragons. in the beginning of the game the quests are very laid back and are there to allow you to get a feel for that starter area's culture. for example, norn quests allow you to get a feel for their animal spirit culture while you get a very familiar nostalgic and home-like feel to the human starter area of queensdale (help with farming, fight bandits, assisting townfolk etc). later game the quests and storyline are more geared towards the goal of defending against and combatting the spawn of the elder dragons (help npcs attack this fortification, hold and defend a base, destroy a bridge, etc).

Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)

  Drachasor

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 2693

9/05/12 8:39:08 PM#8

Shorts DEs are good.  They give people going through things to do.  Over time I'd hope they'd increase the number of them so that repeats happen less often.  I think it is important that zones get more and more DEs over time and the DEs get more complicated and interlocked with each other. 

That said, I think DEs certainly do have impact.  Some open up areas and failing others will result in losing areas.  I've certainly encountered DEs that have changed things.  Certainly you are making a bigger difference than you do in other themepark MMOs.  The only possible competition is MMOs with phasing, which break up the world into little bits for everyone -- and I find that far more immersion-breaking.

And I have to disagree on the lore side of things.  Talking to the heart people and those around them gives a LOT of information about what is going on and why.  I don't see how it is disconnected at all.  And there are other NPCs who randomly talk about what is going on, etc, etc.  It's just as much if not more lore than in quest-based MMOs and frankly it is just as good.

I do think the game could stand to have some longer-acting DEs that happen less often.  Say invasions by whatever evil forces slowly start taking over and you have to fight them back bit by bit.  Well, maybe the initial attack shouldn't be slow at all, but after that it should be.  Basically events that might take place over a week or two.  But I think there's definitely room in the design for stuff like this to be added in the future.

 

Personally, I find the GW2 approach not perfect, but definitely more natural.  When I come across people needing help, I can help them and the game rewards me for it.  I don't need special permission to help, nor am I stealing loot, experience, or challenge when I help someone out.  I also like how the system breaks up my planning as events pop up and I find something new.

I think there's a lot of potential for the DE approach and a lot of ways the current system can be used as well as a ton of ways it can be expanded upon.  So that excites me a bit too, but I'm not holding my breath on that count.

 

Edit:  Again the system isn't perfect.  However, let's not look at quest-based systems with rose-colored glasses.  They can easily be boring, grindy, and filled with flimsy excuses for things.  To say nothing of potentially needing to hunt down quest givers.  On top of that, helping someone out or participating with them doesn't happen very naturally given the nature of a quest system.  Quest systems do give more structure, generally speaking, but I don't think that's a good thing, at least for me and many others.  I like exploring a world and seeing what I find.

  fischsemmel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/06
Posts: 367

9/05/12 8:49:25 PM#9
Originally posted by Hell_Hammer

I can't do anything with it.

 

That's why I can't stand MMOs anymore (although imo even a game advertised for being able to DO stuff in and with the game world like Skyrim doesn't, imo, really let me do much). We've all grinded for xp, and done the raid gear treadmill, and done the themepark questing level-up process, and messed around with the esport PvP, and maxed our obligatory tradeskills, and worked on a bunch of vanity pets/mounts/achievements/costumes. It's time for something that's TRULY innovative (or even revolutionary! industrial revolution revolutionary, american revolution revolutionary, not "lol day/night cycles" revolutionary) for us players!

 

I'm not buying a new MMO again until they make one where the players have an intimate connection with the game world, where the characters have lasting effects on the game world, where the game world requires players to make truly important decisions about their characters, etc. A truly living game world.

 

In the meantime (which will be, like, a decade) I'll play p1999. Classic EQ ftw.

  Requiem1066

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/28/12
Posts: 274

9/05/12 8:50:56 PM#10

 

 What you fail to realize is that you are so used to MMOs hand holding you, telling you to go from location A to B when you reach certain level

 

 

There are different types of direction though .. Ofc sending you from one NPC to another in a linear path is the extreme form of direction ... 

But I think the OP wishes he had a more " Direction " of purpose , he wants to feel he has a reason for doing what he is doing in the grand scheme of things .. Maybe a direction of story to back up his actions .. Which is not hand holding 

  evolver1972

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/11
Posts: 1126

What is "real"? How do you define "real"?

9/05/12 8:54:27 PM#11

Wait, I thought GW2 was a hand-holding Care Bear game.  Now someone is complaing that it isn't that?

 

There is plenty of direction in the game, you don't even have to look for it.  All you have to do is look at the little blurb when a DE comes up, or open your map and click on a heart.  It will tell you what needs to be done.  If you talk to NPCs, they will tell you what is going on.  Sometimes NPCs will actively try to get your attention to tell you what's going on.

 

I, too, am wandering around, checking out the sights (exploring), helping people out as they need it (hearts and DEs) and acting in my own personal story while I play a part in others.  To me, that's a lot of fun in a place like Tyria.

 

You can also click on the Scouts.

 

Finally, as you go through the world, exploring, talking to NPCs, doing DEs or Hearts or whatever, you will find that a story is evolving and you are a part of it, as is everyone else.  Just like any story, it starts off somewhat amorphous, but ends up getting to the point.  How fast you get to the point in this game all depends on you.

 

Oh yeah, different zones have different levels attributed to them.  If that doesn't give you direction, I don't know what will.

 

From what I've seen so far in the game, (admittedly very little, but I've heard and read a lot so far), it's very organic.  It's a world your character moves around in, at your chosen speed, and things happen as you move through the world.  Sometimes you cause things to happen, sometimes you just react to the happening.....and of course, like every story, there is an end to it.  That seems to be around Orr.

 

There's a map with a compass and waypoints, too, if you're having trouble finding direction.

 

 

You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???

Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!

  Drachasor

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 2693

9/05/12 8:58:41 PM#12
Originally posted by fischsemmel
Originally posted by Hell_Hammer

I can't do anything with it.

 

That's why I can't stand MMOs anymore (although imo even a game advertised for being able to DO stuff in and with the game world like Skyrim doesn't, imo, really let me do much). We've all grinded for xp, and done the raid gear treadmill, and done the themepark questing level-up process, and messed around with the esport PvP, and maxed our obligatory tradeskills, and worked on a bunch of vanity pets/mounts/achievements/costumes.

 

I'm not buying a new MMO again until they make one where the players have an intimate connection with the game world, where the characters have lasting effects on the game world and the game world requires players to make truly important decisions about their characters, etc. Take Skyrim, make it 10x more alive + balance it yourself instead of counting on modding communities to do it, make it MMO, and you'll get my money, and a lot of other people's too, I think.

 

In the meantime I'll play p1999. Classic EQ ftw.

I wouldn't want to play a MMO like that.

It would be fun playing a multiplayer game like that with friends however.

Say cross civilization (large-scale AI for civs) with an RTS (ai for small groups for exploiting local resources and combat) with Minecraft (with some tools to make building larger structures easier).  Sounds great as an MMO, right?

Except you're going to get griefing and annoyances out the wazoo.  As best I've seen, there's no good solution for this.  You have to keep playing such a game constantly or you'll lose your stuff one way or another.  I'd rather play such a game with people I trust and who act like a team as a small scale multi-player game.  If we decide to stop playing for a week or two, no problem!  And certainly we don't have to worry about our work getting defaced or wrecked or calling mods about happening across random obscenities.

I think fundamentally this is why sandbox MMOs just can't become as popular as a themepark like WoW (or, I expect GW2).  Some people do want to live in a virtual world.  Most just want to take a short vacation there.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17387

9/05/12 9:01:40 PM#13
Originally posted by Requiem1066

 

 What you fail to realize is that you are so used to MMOs hand holding you, telling you to go from location A to B when you reach certain level

 

 

There are different types of direction though .. Ofc sending you from one NPC to another in a linear path is the extreme form of direction ... 

But I think the OP wishes he had a more " Direction " of purpose , he wants to feel he has a reason for doing what he is doing in the grand scheme of things .. Maybe a direction of story to back up his actions .. Which is not hand holding 

Isn't that where the "role playing" comes in?

  Drachasor

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 2693

9/05/12 9:27:15 PM#14
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Requiem1066

 

 What you fail to realize is that you are so used to MMOs hand holding you, telling you to go from location A to B when you reach certain level

 

 

There are different types of direction though .. Ofc sending you from one NPC to another in a linear path is the extreme form of direction ... 

But I think the OP wishes he had a more " Direction " of purpose , he wants to feel he has a reason for doing what he is doing in the grand scheme of things .. Maybe a direction of story to back up his actions .. Which is not hand holding 

Isn't that where the "role playing" comes in?

No, we like when NPCs tell us what to do and think.

  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

9/06/12 10:46:47 AM#15
Originally posted by yaoming36.
What you fail to realize is that you are so used to MMOs hand holding you, telling you to go from location A to B when you reach certain level, that you have lost all the sense of wonder and discovery for yourself. 

Well actually I am of opinion that games show way too much.  Marks on map and mini-map where DE are taking place (orange circle) , pre-marked 'points of interest' and similar.    Too much various points you get that you exchange instead of just finding things. (finding areas filled with craft resources in good thing thou).

GW2 exploration feel alot more like 'uncovering and competing zones' instead of wandering off and discovering.

It is bit like 'completing levels' in single player games for "achievement" instead of wandering off in virtual world.

 

More like "there is something on that mountain, I can go check what's that" instead of "I am in middle of the wilds and I can explore IF there is something there".

 

Just too 'structured' and too much 'hand-holding'.  I miss games where game did NOT show you almost anything.

No pre-made marks, no high-lighting, no 'alerts', no arrows, etc

  pags411

Novice Member

Joined: 4/10/12
Posts: 99

9/06/12 11:58:14 AM#16
Originally posted by Hell_Hammer

I'm coming to realize that the oft mentioned feeling of a lack of direction and the lack of progression is affecting me as well.

I find myself just running into things that are going on, killing a bunch of pirates/centaur/centaur pirates/whatever, with no idea whatsoever why am I doing that, getting a generic thank you letter with cash and moving on. 

Dynamic events as well, if you don't manage to catch them at their start and follow them through it's just a hackfest with some dudes. The legendarily hyped world-affecting changes are lacking and even if they are there, they reset so fast as not to have any real impact whatsoever.

Yes, I can go to the heart location and talk to the guy and get some flimsy excuse or something but it's still kind of out of context, out of touch with everything else. 

I've been doing a fair bit of exploring, without any rush, simply enjoying the scenery, when I finally realized that is all that it is - pretty scenery. I can't do anything with it. I rarely have any concrete reason to even be there except to see another hill or a melodramatic Vista cutscene. 

The "standard" quests that everyone seems to hate now at least give you a sense of direction and purpose for being someplace. They are used to guide you through the zone within at least some sort of context. Even the standard "Go and report to Commander Enpeecee at Generic Hold, they need help with pirates." gives some purpose to what you are doing.

I realize that many people will jump at the oppurtinity to call this restricting or hand-holding or something along those lines - but for me personally even that generic context adds to the flavor.

While the GW2 approach is undoubtedly freer, for me it is increasingly lacking any purpose.

I find myself fighting on some godforsaken hill slaughtering centaurs and realize I have no idea why I'm doing that. No one's paying me to do that, it's not even a heart and judging by the time I've spent up there there is no dynamic event about to bust out.

That part of the zone seems to be there just to...well, be there. Yeah, it's pretty, but I can admire digital hills and rivers for only so long.

And that feeling is something that pops up more and more often with more and more locations.

I dunno, really trying to get into it but it doesn't seem to be working.

Totally valid.  You may decide that this just isn't your game.  Now you know for yourself.  I think most people who have really fallen in love with this game are like me and have been longing for something more open-ended.  We do feel like other MMOs in the past decade or so have become increasingly focused on making sure the player always knows what's next.  I've never been concerned with progression or progress so much as I've been interested in a game that's fun, challenging and has a lot of replay-value.  When a game is always telling me what's next, I feel anxious or confused the one time it doesn't tell me or when there's nothing left to go for until a patch, etc.  I'm sure a lot of people will come to similar realizations over the next couple of months.  At least you checked it out!

  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

9/06/12 12:24:18 PM#17
Originally posted by pags411
Originally posted by Hell_Hammer
snip

Totally valid.  You may decide that this just isn't your game.  Now you know for yourself.  I think most people who have really fallen in love with this game are like me and have been longing for something more open-ended.  We do feel like other MMOs in the past decade or so have become increasingly focused on making sure the player always knows what's next.  I've never been concerned with progression or progress so much as I've been interested in a game that's fun, challenging and has a lot of replay-value.  When a game is always telling me what's next, I feel anxious or confused the one time it doesn't tell me or when there's nothing left to go for until a patch, etc.  I'm sure a lot of people will come to similar realizations over the next couple of months.  At least you checked it out!

Thing is for me GW2 is still 'telling' what's next too much. 

Would be much better if there would be less DE's BUT more complex and changing world for days or weeks and at same time that ALL DE's marks,  "exploration" marks, etc would have been thrown out. Not to even tell about hearts that show everything.   Cause atm GW2 is showing me things almost like quest gps in WoW.  Bit less, a small step in right direction, but very tiny one.    Not fundamentally changing this issue.

  just1opinion

Smart-Alek

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 4933

9/06/12 12:35:05 PM#18

 

In the end, all this thread proves is that some people like the GW2 system of doing DEs, quests, etc., and SOME DON'T.  So what?  I'm kind of over all the whining about this and that threads.  If you don't like the game....go play something else for a while or forever, for that matter.  For the most part this is a polarized issue.  I LOVE the way GW2 does it.  I love wandering around seeing what trouble I can get into, talking to random NPCs all over the world finding out what's up.  Love it.  If you don't.....you don't.  But no one is changing the game for you, so perhaps you need to change what you're doing....like go do something you find to be FUN.

President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

9/06/12 12:43:36 PM#19
I like the DEs and exploration.

If I could change one thing though, I would have tsws multistage quests instead of the hearts. They are ideal for a quick half an hours play (the big ones take that long), just dip in do the quest, have a sense of accomplishment then log out. Including some of the stealth and investigation mechanics.
  Torgrim

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 2172

9/06/12 2:19:19 PM#20

Talk to a scout, he explains what's going on in that part of the zone.

What more do you need?

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.