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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » So how much money have you spent in the Cash Shop?

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185 posts found
  BeansnBread

Elite Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5410

9/05/12 3:56:35 AM#141
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

 

You still have the problem with the first trade. The first trade needs to work, and given the current system how can you "buy" something if there is no supply of it? Your first trade will not happen in the system you suggest  since there is no supply.  Keep in mind that the trades are done with the system rather than directly to a player: if the system has no supply, and players have supply, how can the first trade happen?

I'm trying to figure out what you're missing. I think it's this:

 

The market can have 0 gems on it and people will still be able to trade gold for gems. The price is BASED on supply and demand. If there is no supply or demand, the system does not stop working. People with gems can still get gold and people with gold can still get gems.

 

From there, you can hopefully see that they are able to fix a starting price and let the algorithm go. 

Yes, but from where do they get the gold and gems? From the system, right? Which is equivalent with the system having a supply of gold and gems.

No. Not from the system....... ok, how else can I explain this...

 

They are recieving data about how many people are buying gems and how many people are buying gold. The price fluctuates based on this information.

 

The gold I spent on gems disappears. The gems they traded for gold disappear. What I get is actually the amount of gems the algorithm has decided a person gets for the amount of gold I pay. And vice versa.

 

Let's do a little thought experiment:

Assume the system you describe is the real one and then assume that gem-gold system just opened. Now assume  that no person puts any "buy gold" order and there are only people "buying gem" orders. Also assume that every person has infinite amount of gold. Then let the amount of potential "buying gem" orders go towards infinity: how much total gems are able to be acquired that way? 

An infinite amount.

 

If no one is selling gems, the price would skyrocket on gems. But since you have an infinite amount of gold, it wouldn't matter.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  thamighty213

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/17/06
Posts: 1647

9/05/12 4:03:01 AM#142
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Raxeon
Originally posted by Loktofeit
I bought a medium armor skin for my character, however since it is one use only, I don't think I'll be buying another until 80. It looks damn nice, though. :)

you can transmute it over to another set of armor i think

Still a waste of stones, since being a low level, at any moment, a upgrade can drop, with low level model, and now would need a new (rare) Trans-Stone to change it to the armor you bought.

Basic trans stones do the job just fine and I wouldnt really call them rare.

  Forgefeu

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/25/04
Posts: 97

9/05/12 4:03:45 AM#143

None yet, i will wait until october 1st and from there i will put 10€ in it every month like a cheap sub. first with convenient items like inventory slot or bank slot.

I really like this system more, you can show support and still get rewarded for it without having the feeling of "having to play" because you paid for it, to me its more relaxing and there is the double effect of "well now that i paid, what can i get ?"

Overall its enjoyable :)

  oubers

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/14/11
Posts: 866

9/05/12 4:20:57 AM#144
Originally posted by MercAngel
no real money. but i do have over 4000 geams buy low sell high it works

 its' people like this who try to inflate the market for their own gains (read: greed) so i am glad Anet offers me things trough the shop.......the greed gets capped imho by Anet.....good move.

If Anet didnt sell there own gems at reasonable prices guys like ^^this^^ would just destroy the market again in yet another game.

Yeah D3 i am looking at you with your 30MILLION ingame gold items while my max lvl char has only 500K gold.....grinding a fiew more years to have a slightly better item, no thnx.

I'll buy from Anet (they made a game i love and i dont mind opening my wallet for them to reward them for it.)

 

  TwoThreeFour

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2133

9/05/12 9:57:07 AM#145
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

 

You still have the problem with the first trade. The first trade needs to work, and given the current system how can you "buy" something if there is no supply of it? Your first trade will not happen in the system you suggest  since there is no supply.  Keep in mind that the trades are done with the system rather than directly to a player: if the system has no supply, and players have supply, how can the first trade happen?

I'm trying to figure out what you're missing. I think it's this:

 

The market can have 0 gems on it and people will still be able to trade gold for gems. The price is BASED on supply and demand. If there is no supply or demand, the system does not stop working. People with gems can still get gold and people with gold can still get gems.

 

From there, you can hopefully see that they are able to fix a starting price and let the algorithm go. 

Yes, but from where do they get the gold and gems? From the system, right? Which is equivalent with the system having a supply of gold and gems.

No. Not from the system....... ok, how else can I explain this...

 

They are recieving data about how many people are buying gems and how many people are buying gold. The price fluctuates based on this information.

 

The gold I spent on gems disappears. The gems they traded for gold disappear. What I get is actually the amount of gems the algorithm has decided a person gets for the amount of gold I pay. And vice versa.

 

Let's do a little thought experiment:

Assume the system you describe is the real one and then assume that gem-gold system just opened. Now assume  that no person puts any "buy gold" order and there are only people "buying gem" orders. Also assume that every person has infinite amount of gold. Then let the amount of potential "buying gem" orders go towards infinity: how much total gems are able to be acquired that way? 

An infinite amount.

 

If no one is selling gems, the price would skyrocket on gems. But since you have an infinite amount of gold, it wouldn't matter.

 

Which means that your suggestion implies that Arenanet would have an artificial unlimited supply of gems, but that the price is dictated by the supply and demand from players. Which agrees with one of my points: that Arenanet indeed introduced an artificial supply. 

 

The system I suggested would have a limited starting supply, but nonetheless artificial as well.

 

Let's revise the quote again:

 

William: No pay-to-win is very good to hear. And you said that the players determine the economy to a certain extent. Does that mean that there’s a player-based economy? Does that mean the gem conversion shop prices are gonna be determined by the players? Do you have an initial set price at the gem conversion shop?

Matt: I know, basically, that players can purchase gems and they can place them up for sale and the gold price will fluctuate and a different amount of players buy those gems. So that’s what I meant in terms of a player-controlled market. I don’t know the specifics of the implementation on that so I can’t really comment.

(NOTE: Full answer provided in follow-up email sent after the interview: ArenaNet will set the initial exchange rate for gems to gold when the servers first open for headstart, but after that the rate will fluctuate based on supply and demand of the players using the Currency Exchange. The gems and gold players get from the Currency Exchange are supplied by other players, not ArenaNet. As supply of gems goes up, the price will go down and vice versa. While we do not expect prices to fluctuate wildly, smart traders will be able to get good deals by watching the exchange rate closely and waiting for it to favor gems or gold, whichever they are looking to purchase.)

 

In both your and my suggestion, the initial exchange rate is set by Arenanet, like the text says. In  both suggestions the rate will fluctuate based on supply and demand from  the players using the currency exchange, like the text says it should.

 

However, both our suggestions are not coherent with the statement "The gems and gold players get from the Currency Exchange are supplied by other players, not ArenaNet.". In my case, Arenanet only sets a limited initial supply of gems and gold at the start but never adds supply to it again, while in your case Arenanet provides an unlimited supply of gems and  gold although that specific supply does not affect the pricing.

 

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11358

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

9/05/12 10:14:31 AM#146
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


In both your and my suggestion, the initial exchange rate is set by Arenanet, like the text says. In  both suggestions the rate will fluctuate based on supply and demand from  the players using the currency exchange, like the text says it should.

However, both our suggestions are not coherent with the statement "The gems and gold players get from the Currency Exchange are supplied by other players, not ArenaNet.". In my case, Arenanet only sets a limited initial supply of gems and gold at the start but never adds supply to it again, while in your case Arenanet provides an unlimited supply of gems and  gold although that specific supply does not affect the pricing.

Where are you getting that ArenaNet put either gold or gems in the system?

  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3442

The problem with censorship is ********

9/05/12 10:15:54 AM#147
I bought some keys. I separated a 10$ budget for the game monthly.


  TwoThreeFour

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2133

9/05/12 10:17:55 AM#148
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


In both your and my suggestion, the initial exchange rate is set by Arenanet, like the text says. In  both suggestions the rate will fluctuate based on supply and demand from  the players using the currency exchange, like the text says it should.

However, both our suggestions are not coherent with the statement "The gems and gold players get from the Currency Exchange are supplied by other players, not ArenaNet.". In my case, Arenanet only sets a limited initial supply of gems and gold at the start but never adds supply to it again, while in your case Arenanet provides an unlimited supply of gems and  gold although that specific supply does not affect the pricing.

Where are you getting that ArenaNet put either gold or gems in the system?

 

Do you have an alternative suggestion that hasn't been presented already by neither Colddog nor me and is in large parts coherent with the quote from the article?

  WolfClaws

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/05
Posts: 437

9/05/12 10:20:47 AM#149
Originally posted by Loke666

None, see no reason for it since buying gems for silver currently is cheap.

I will buy all expansions for real money though, and if I am really happy with the game a month or 2 from now I will make a purchase to support the game but right now my $60 is enough. 

Where do you think the Gems come from?  Other players selling their gems to be purchased by other playing spending gold.

  TwoThreeFour

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2133

9/05/12 10:22:22 AM#150
Originally posted by WolfClaws
Originally posted by Loke666

None, see no reason for it since buying gems for silver currently is cheap.

I will buy all expansions for real money though, and if I am really happy with the game a month or 2 from now I will make a purchase to support the game but right now my $60 is enough. 

Where do you think the Gems come from?  Other players selling their gems to be purchased by other playing spending gold.

 

Colddog suggested that there is an unlimited artificial gem supply but that the price itself is driven by the supply and demand from players. 

  JackSmth

Novice Member

Joined: 8/29/12
Posts: 17

9/05/12 10:27:48 AM#151

I've spend 20 Euro in the cash shop so far (extra bank space, keys and dye-pack).

 

And I will probably spend more if they expand the shop with more cosmetic items.

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11358

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

9/05/12 10:27:51 AM#152
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


In both your and my suggestion, the initial exchange rate is set by Arenanet, like the text says. In  both suggestions the rate will fluctuate based on supply and demand from  the players using the currency exchange, like the text says it should.

However, both our suggestions are not coherent with the statement "The gems and gold players get from the Currency Exchange are supplied by other players, not ArenaNet.". In my case, Arenanet only sets a limited initial supply of gems and gold at the start but never adds supply to it again, while in your case Arenanet provides an unlimited supply of gems and  gold although that specific supply does not affect the pricing.

Where are you getting that ArenaNet put either gold or gems in the system?

Do you have an alternative suggestion that hasn't been presented already by neither Colddog nor me and is in large parts coherent with the quote from the article?

Yes.

- Buy and sell orders don't require an immediate participant on the other side

- Global (not server based) Gem/Gold exchange create a universal market. Someone somewhere is buying or selling on either side.

This isn't rocket science.

  Falcomith

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/03/09
Posts: 789

9/05/12 10:33:03 AM#153
$35 to purchase 3 more character slots so that now I can play one of each class since I like them all. The only other thing I may purchases in the future is one or two more bank slots. Nothing else in the store interest me.
  Raven

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/20/06
Posts: 1985

"Only the dead have seen the end of war" Plato

9/05/12 10:37:49 AM#154
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


In both your and my suggestion, the initial exchange rate is set by Arenanet, like the text says. In  both suggestions the rate will fluctuate based on supply and demand from  the players using the currency exchange, like the text says it should.

However, both our suggestions are not coherent with the statement "The gems and gold players get from the Currency Exchange are supplied by other players, not ArenaNet.". In my case, Arenanet only sets a limited initial supply of gems and gold at the start but never adds supply to it again, while in your case Arenanet provides an unlimited supply of gems and  gold although that specific supply does not affect the pricing.

Where are you getting that ArenaNet put either gold or gems in the system?

Do you have an alternative suggestion that hasn't been presented already by neither Colddog nor me and is in large parts coherent with the quote from the article?

Yes.

- Buy and sell orders don't require an immediate participant on the other side

- Global (not server based) Gem/Gold exchange create a universal market. Someone somewhere is buying or selling on either side.

This isn't rocket science.

Yep this is the simplest solution and I am with you on this, the minute someone made a transaction it kicks off the algorithm and the price starts floating, the supply is artificial the only thing that players control is the exchange rate by buying and selling.

Player A buying 100 gems doesnt mean that player B immediatly sold 100 gems on the other side, he could have sold it 2 days ago or never sold them at all, the only thing he affected was the exchange rate by selling in gems. So assuming an infinite amount of gold and no one ever selling gems in you would always be able to buy gems from them at an increasing gold price.

  TwoThreeFour

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2133

9/05/12 10:39:23 AM#155
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


In both your and my suggestion, the initial exchange rate is set by Arenanet, like the text says. In  both suggestions the rate will fluctuate based on supply and demand from  the players using the currency exchange, like the text says it should.

However, both our suggestions are not coherent with the statement "The gems and gold players get from the Currency Exchange are supplied by other players, not ArenaNet.". In my case, Arenanet only sets a limited initial supply of gems and gold at the start but never adds supply to it again, while in your case Arenanet provides an unlimited supply of gems and  gold although that specific supply does not affect the pricing.

Where are you getting that ArenaNet put either gold or gems in the system?

Do you have an alternative suggestion that hasn't been presented already by neither Colddog nor me and is in large parts coherent with the quote from the article?

Yes.

- Buy and sell orders don't require an immediate participant on the other side

- Global (not server based) Gem/Gold exchange create a universal market. Someone somewhere is buying or selling on either side.

This isn't rocket science.

Isn't your system exactly like Colddog's? In which case there is indeed an unlimited aritificial supply because if people were only buying and noone was selling, those buying gems would still get gems as long as they got enough gold to buy the gems with.

 

Edit: The existence of an unlimited artificial supply designed by Arenanet means that Arenanet "put" those gems in the system, which answers your initial question.

  sodade21

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/18/09
Posts: 332

9/05/12 10:42:35 AM#156
me and my boyfriend spend 20 euro each = 40 just for bank slots.. and we gonna spent more if we feel like we need more space and/or an extra character slot...
sodade21 Xfire Miniprofile
  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5313

9/05/12 10:51:09 AM#157
I spent $35, but only used a part of it to expand my bank (damn you cooking!).  I still have some left over...will probably use it for a character slot.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11358

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

9/05/12 11:07:20 AM#158
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


In both your and my suggestion, the initial exchange rate is set by Arenanet, like the text says. In  both suggestions the rate will fluctuate based on supply and demand from  the players using the currency exchange, like the text says it should.

However, both our suggestions are not coherent with the statement "The gems and gold players get from the Currency Exchange are supplied by other players, not ArenaNet.". In my case, Arenanet only sets a limited initial supply of gems and gold at the start but never adds supply to it again, while in your case Arenanet provides an unlimited supply of gems and  gold although that specific supply does not affect the pricing.

Where are you getting that ArenaNet put either gold or gems in the system?

Do you have an alternative suggestion that hasn't been presented already by neither Colddog nor me and is in large parts coherent with the quote from the article?

Yes.

- Buy and sell orders don't require an immediate participant on the other side

- Global (not server based) Gem/Gold exchange create a universal market. Someone somewhere is buying or selling on either side.

This isn't rocket science.

Isn't your system exactly like Colddog's? In which case there is indeed an unlimited aritificial supply because if people were only buying and noone was selling, those buying gems would still get gems as long as they got enough gold to buy the gems with.

Edit: The existence of an unlimited artificial supply designed by Arenanet means that Arenanet "put" those gems in the system, which answers your initial question.

False.

  • Buy orders and sell orders are not completed transactions.
  • A person cannot buy a gem or gold that isn't on the market.
  • No gold or gems are artificially added to the market.

"there is indeed an unlimited aritificial supply"

You still haven't explained where you got that an artificial supply is being used.

 

  TwoThreeFour

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2133

9/05/12 11:21:53 AM#159
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


In both your and my suggestion, the initial exchange rate is set by Arenanet, like the text says. In  both suggestions the rate will fluctuate based on supply and demand from  the players using the currency exchange, like the text says it should.

However, both our suggestions are not coherent with the statement "The gems and gold players get from the Currency Exchange are supplied by other players, not ArenaNet.". In my case, Arenanet only sets a limited initial supply of gems and gold at the start but never adds supply to it again, while in your case Arenanet provides an unlimited supply of gems and  gold although that specific supply does not affect the pricing.

Where are you getting that ArenaNet put either gold or gems in the system?

Do you have an alternative suggestion that hasn't been presented already by neither Colddog nor me and is in large parts coherent with the quote from the article?

Yes.

- Buy and sell orders don't require an immediate participant on the other side

- Global (not server based) Gem/Gold exchange create a universal market. Someone somewhere is buying or selling on either side.

This isn't rocket science.

Isn't your system exactly like Colddog's? In which case there is indeed an unlimited aritificial supply because if people were only buying and noone was selling, those buying gems would still get gems as long as they got enough gold to buy the gems with.

Edit: The existence of an unlimited artificial supply designed by Arenanet means that Arenanet "put" those gems in the system, which answers your initial question.

False.

  • Buy orders and sell orders are not completed transactions.
  • A person cannot buy a gem or gold that isn't on the market.
  • No gold or gems are artificially added to the market.

"there is indeed an unlimited aritificial supply"

You still haven't explained where you got that an artificial supply is being used.

 

There is a problem with that though: has anyone ever received a message of the kind saying "there is no supply available, but you'll get some when there is"? Because that should at least have happened when the first trader tried to buy/sell gems through the gem-gold system. Actually, it should have happened to a lot of people given that normally during server starts, from my experience, people are far more eager to buy item mall currencies than to sell. 

 

As for the source: I am starting to believe that it was merely someone drawing a conclusion rather than an official statementt. I'll have to keep my eyes open for sources more in the future, to see it first-hand. I may not have done so for that one because it sounded so reasonable so that I didn't question it.

 

Edit: Best I can do currently is try to deduce which systems would in theory work with what we know currently about Guild Wars 2. 

  Terranah

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 3609

9/05/12 12:27:40 PM#160

None yet.  I would be willing to drop more money on it but I'd like to see a slightly different implementation with the clothing/armor graphics.  It should be account wide and there should be another tab that allows you to wear the armor without having to use some item to swap stats.  Also, there should be special inventory storage for purchased items because I don't want to clutter up my inventory space.

 

Of course they won't implement any of these and I probably will not purchase nearly as much as I would otherwisse.

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