Yes, World of Warcraft will be EPIC again when MoP is out.

Pandas vs cute fairy tales characters? You know the rest ^^

Some of us are actually capable of rational thought and know what we do and don't like in an MMO.  Consequently some of us don't think of certain things as grinds.  Sitting in the same spot killing the same pack of wolves for 2 hours is a grind.  Running dungeons and part of the reward being some sort of token that you turn in for a piece of equipment, that you then use said equipment to go to a more powerful dungeon to work for tokens for a more powerful set of equipment is NOT a grind to many of us.

Some of us enjoy the process.  We're not stupid, we know its a timesink.  We just don't give a shit.  Amazing isn't it.

Some of us like to actually have to walk to dungeon entrances.  Some of us like when there aren't teleport stones every hundred feet.

You anti-grind people are going to find at some point the comin future some company is going to give you what you want and you're going to come the hard realization that what you thought you wanted isnt actually what you wanted.  But by that points its going to be too late, and then you're going to be sitting with the rest of us on this side of the fence, face palming at the people who consider having to hit a mob more than once to kill it is too grindy.

Originally posted by Hrimnir

Some of us are actually capable of rational thought and know what we do and don't like in an MMO.  Consequently some of us don't think of certain things as grinds.  Sitting in the same spot killing the same pack of wolves for 2 hours is a grind.  Running dungeons and part of the reward being some sort of token that you turn in for a piece of equipment, that you then use said equipment to go to a more powerful dungeon to work for tokens for a more powerful set of equipment is NOT a grind to many of us.

Some of us enjoy the process.  We're not stupid, we know its a timesink.  We just don't give a shit.  Amazing isn't it.

Some of us like to actually have to walk to dungeon entrances.  Some of us like when there aren't teleport stones every hundred feet.

You anti-grind people are going to find at some point the comin future some company is going to give you what you want and you're going to come the hard realization that what you thought you wanted isnt actually what you wanted.  But by that points its going to be too late, and then you're going to be sitting with the rest of us on this side of the fence, face palming at the people who consider having to hit a mob more than once to kill it is too grindy.

^ what he said, nothing like putting hours into a game then after a long process finally getting your reward. It sets a goal and a milestone to keep you engaged in the game. Where as if i have no goal, i get bored real fast. i could let it slide though if it has a ranking system cause then my goal would be to make my way up with the best.

Reaching lvl 80 zone - go to karma vendor - 1 piece of armor is 21000 karma - I have 12000 getting to 76

It's gonna be a long long long grind.

Originally posted by Odinthedark1

Originally posted by Hrimnir

Some of us are actually capable of rational thought and know what we do and don't like in an MMO.  Consequently some of us don't think of certain things as grinds.  Sitting in the same spot killing the same pack of wolves for 2 hours is a grind.  Running dungeons and part of the reward being some sort of token that you turn in for a piece of equipment, that you then use said equipment to go to a more powerful dungeon to work for tokens for a more powerful set of equipment is NOT a grind to many of us.

Some of us enjoy the process.  We're not stupid, we know its a timesink.  We just don't give a shit.  Amazing isn't it.

Some of us like to actually have to walk to dungeon entrances.  Some of us like when there aren't teleport stones every hundred feet.

You anti-grind people are going to find at some point the comin future some company is going to give you what you want and you're going to come the hard realization that what you thought you wanted isnt actually what you wanted.  But by that points its going to be too late, and then you're going to be sitting with the rest of us on this side of the fence, face palming at the people who consider having to hit a mob more than once to kill it is too grindy.

^ what he said, nothing like putting hours into a game then after a long process finally getting your reward. It sets a goal and a milestone to keep you engaged in the game. Where as if i have no goal, i get bored real fast. i could let it slide though if it has a ranking system cause then my goal would be to make my way up with the best.

 Yeah you're right. Cus UT CS and Quake didnt get famous.

Originally posted by Hrimnir

Some of us are actually capable of rational thought and know what we do and don't like in an MMO.  Consequently some of us don't think of certain things as grinds.  Sitting in the same spot killing the same pack of wolves for 2 hours is a grind.  Running dungeons and part of the reward being some sort of token that you turn in for a piece of equipment, that you then use said equipment to go to a more powerful dungeon to work for tokens for a more powerful set of equipment is NOT a grind to many of us.

Some of us enjoy the process.  We're not stupid, we know its a timesink.  We just don't give a shit.  Amazing isn't it.

Some of us like to actually have to walk to dungeon entrances.  Some of us like when there aren't teleport stones every hundred feet.

You anti-grind people are going to find at some point the comin future some company is going to give you what you want and you're going to come the hard realization that what you thought you wanted isnt actually what you wanted.  But by that points its going to be too late, and then you're going to be sitting with the rest of us on this side of the fence, face palming at the people who consider having to hit a mob more than once to kill it is too grindy.

... Seriously your post is fail bro. Getting a legendary in this game takes an insane amount of time, and brings insane bringing rights as they are likely the coolest/ most impressive weapon skins in a video game ever. I'm not blowing fluff either, you tell me something cooler than the Twilight Greatsword (lol.). Theres also nothing forcing you (except when you die) to use waypoints... in fact they are expensive as hell at level 80 and even discourage it. There is a huge amount of stuff to grind in this game. All the dungeon sets take MANY MANY MANY runs. The legendaries take roughly 50-100g, 2 maxed crafting professions, 200 skill points, and a specific exotic.

There is pletny of grind in GW2 not just the kind of grind people are looking  for example WOW esque hamster wheel grind.

Other than that GW2 has plenty of grind for those who enjoy having goals. Some exclusive weapons take around 200 hours to craft. That is just one example.

Originally posted by Odinthedark1
Whats wrong with gear resets anyway's, if anything i think being a treadmill helps the games longevity of course speaking from experience WoW has kept me on and off for 4 years, new gear/dungeons and pvp bring me back every single time. all it does is give me the goal / milestone i needed to keep me playing longer. And as to a past poster talking about FPS games...obviously there are games meant to be grindy and games meant to just jump in and have fun...Shooters are not an RPG. And all the games you listed are arena style shooter's, someone could steal my money if they blended arena games like them with a fantasy setting. Though, as i said in another thread, i'd be fine if they just gave GW2 a similar arena setup to WoW you know like 2v2's and then gave it a ranking system/ladder. with the amount of time on my hands i dont just play for fun but it is always helpful for it to be fun at the same time as time consuming.

Because world would be a boring place if everything was same? i like GW2 way of handling the grind at level caps. I don't want every MMO to copy WOW model of grind. Don't we have enough of those already?

Are people complaining about lack of vertical character progression / development? Yes. (the type of people who appreciate it in MMOs)

Are people complaining about lack of GRIND? No.

Originally posted by lifeordinary

Originally posted by Odinthedark1
Whats wrong with gear resets anyway's, if anything i think being a treadmill helps the games longevity of course speaking from experience WoW has kept me on and off for 4 years, new gear/dungeons and pvp bring me back every single time. all it does is give me the goal / milestone i needed to keep me playing longer. And as to a past poster talking about FPS games...obviously there are games meant to be grindy and games meant to just jump in and have fun...Shooters are not an RPG. And all the games you listed are arena style shooter's, someone could steal my money if they blended arena games like them with a fantasy setting. Though, as i said in another thread, i'd be fine if they just gave GW2 a similar arena setup to WoW you know like 2v2's and then gave it a ranking system/ladder. with the amount of time on my hands i dont just play for fun but it is always helpful for it to be fun at the same time as time consuming.

Because world would be a boring place if everything was same? i like GW2 way of handling the grind at level caps. I don't want every MMO to copy WOW model of grind. Don't we have enough of those already?

i hate to say it but WoW is the basic of the basic, there were alot of clones that tried to copy more than just the gear grind, hell look at runes of magic. theres a good reason most mmo's have that grind its because its the way an RPG genre is meant to be, even in single player games not saying this is everyone but i like to complete any game i play and max out all my characters levels. In a way i play MMO's the same, Cause they are rpg's after all. If people want something different imo dont stick with the same genre.

Originally posted by Hrimnir

Running dungeons and part of the reward being some sort of token that you turn in for a piece of equipment, that you then use said equipment to go to a more powerful dungeon to work for tokens for a more powerful set of equipment is NOT a grind to many of us.

Some of us enjoy the process.  We're not stupid, we know its a timesink.  We just don't give a shit.  Amazing isn't it.

 

i think everyone enjoys the process. The thing is after 40 times doing the same thing to get the same currency to get the same item because the drop rates are so low that you never get the right piece of gear to complete the set in most mmos, then that goes from being a timesink to being a mindless grindy timesink. Thats why i love GW2 system which avoids that.

Just my opinion. I still like the other mmos system but GW2 is really fresh air for me.

Originally posted by MikeJezZ

Originally posted by Odinthedark1

Originally posted by Hrimnir

Some of us are actually capable of rational thought and know what we do and don't like in an MMO.  Consequently some of us don't think of certain things as grinds.  Sitting in the same spot killing the same pack of wolves for 2 hours is a grind.  Running dungeons and part of the reward being some sort of token that you turn in for a piece of equipment, that you then use said equipment to go to a more powerful dungeon to work for tokens for a more powerful set of equipment is NOT a grind to many of us.

Some of us enjoy the process.  We're not stupid, we know its a timesink.  We just don't give a shit.  Amazing isn't it.

Some of us like to actually have to walk to dungeon entrances.  Some of us like when there aren't teleport stones every hundred feet.

You anti-grind people are going to find at some point the comin future some company is going to give you what you want and you're going to come the hard realization that what you thought you wanted isnt actually what you wanted.  But by that points its going to be too late, and then you're going to be sitting with the rest of us on this side of the fence, face palming at the people who consider having to hit a mob more than once to kill it is too grindy.

^ what he said, nothing like putting hours into a game then after a long process finally getting your reward. It sets a goal and a milestone to keep you engaged in the game. Where as if i have no goal, i get bored real fast. i could let it slide though if it has a ranking system cause then my goal would be to make my way up with the best.

 Yeah you're right. Cus UT CS and Quake didnt get famous.

This is the point where the disagreement happens.

Some people do not mind if MMOs turn into Unreal / Quake. For some people, including me, it would be a nightmare.

Originally posted by Odinthedark1

Originally posted by lifeordinary

Originally posted by Odinthedark1
Whats wrong with gear resets anyway's, if anything i think being a treadmill helps the games longevity of course speaking from experience WoW has kept me on and off for 4 years, new gear/dungeons and pvp bring me back every single time. all it does is give me the goal / milestone i needed to keep me playing longer. And as to a past poster talking about FPS games...obviously there are games meant to be grindy and games meant to just jump in and have fun...Shooters are not an RPG. And all the games you listed are arena style shooter's, someone could steal my money if they blended arena games like them with a fantasy setting. Though, as i said in another thread, i'd be fine if they just gave GW2 a similar arena setup to WoW you know like 2v2's and then gave it a ranking system/ladder. with the amount of time on my hands i dont just play for fun but it is always helpful for it to be fun at the same time as time consuming.

Because world would be a boring place if everything was same? i like GW2 way of handling the grind at level caps. I don't want every MMO to copy WOW model of grind. Don't we have enough of those already?

i hate to say it but WoW is the basic of the basic, there were alot of clones that tried to copy more than just the gear grind, hell look at runes of magic. theres a good reason most mmo's have that grind its because its the way an RPG genre is meant to be, even in single player games not saying this is everyone but i like to complete any game i play and max out all my characters levels. In a way i play MMO's the same, Cause they are rpg's after all. If people want something different imo dont stick with the same genre.

RPG genre existed even before WOW. And it was being played just fine before that. And i completely diagree with that last statement because before WOW all MMOS had their own unique identity and were not clone of one another. I enjoy WOW even now to this date but what i didn't expect was every freakin MMO trying to copy its end game design.

The latest MMO i dropped was TSW thanks to same old purple loot whoring and tier based dungeon grind. So yes for those who want something different they dont need to change genre..they need to encourage devs to make more MMOS like GW2 who are no desperate to copy WOW's hamster wheel end game design.

Originally posted by lifeordinary

Originally posted by Odinthedark1

Originally posted by lifeordinary

Originally posted by Odinthedark1
Whats wrong with gear resets anyway's, if anything i think being a treadmill helps the games longevity of course speaking from experience WoW has kept me on and off for 4 years, new gear/dungeons and pvp bring me back every single time. all it does is give me the goal / milestone i needed to keep me playing longer. And as to a past poster talking about FPS games...obviously there are games meant to be grindy and games meant to just jump in and have fun...Shooters are not an RPG. And all the games you listed are arena style shooter's, someone could steal my money if they blended arena games like them with a fantasy setting. Though, as i said in another thread, i'd be fine if they just gave GW2 a similar arena setup to WoW you know like 2v2's and then gave it a ranking system/ladder. with the amount of time on my hands i dont just play for fun but it is always helpful for it to be fun at the same time as time consuming.

Because world would be a boring place if everything was same? i like GW2 way of handling the grind at level caps. I don't want every MMO to copy WOW model of grind. Don't we have enough of those already?

i hate to say it but WoW is the basic of the basic, there were alot of clones that tried to copy more than just the gear grind, hell look at runes of magic. theres a good reason most mmo's have that grind its because its the way an RPG genre is meant to be, even in single player games not saying this is everyone but i like to complete any game i play and max out all my characters levels. In a way i play MMO's the same, Cause they are rpg's after all. If people want something different imo dont stick with the same genre.

RPG genre existed even before WOW. And it was being played just fine before that. And i completely diagree with that last statement because before WOW all MMOS had their own unique identity and were not clone of one another. I enjoy WOW even now to this date but what i didn't expect was every freakin MMO trying to copy its end game design.

The latest MMO i dropped was TSW thanks to same old purple loot whoring and tier based dungeon grind. So yes for those who want something different they dont need to change genre..they need to encourage devs to make more MMOS like GW2 who are no desperate to copy WOW's hamster wheel end game design.

So let me get this straight, you play a gear grindy game for years, get annoyed when they make clones...play GW2....and now you want more clones? cause you know it would be the same exact process...WoW was just as huge if not huger when it came out. And also to the first part, thats my point the rpg genre has been alive for quite some time and WoW fits right into it, i never said WoW came first. GW2 is just some wierd thing in its on genre, in comparison if games were like old fashioned school clique's gw2 wouldnt be a jockey, a prep, a nerd, or any of the other's, it would be the wierd kid sitting in the corner who just doesnt quite fit in with anyone. of course this is just the way i see it after playing rpg's since i was 5 up to now 19 years old.