Originally posted by MindTrigger

Originally posted by chaintm
You actually do build allot of stuff, so right there you just telling us you never participated, do you even own the game? Guilds can claim keeps, upgrade them (anyone can upgrade actually) and more. Definitly thinking by your statement you never played this game but just trolling for whatever reason.

You should learn not to come to baseless conclusions and state them as fact.  Not only did I pre-purchase this game, but I was there for the BWEs and I'm actively playing it now. I played GW1 and own all the expansions as well. I enjoy the game a lot currently, but I also don't think it's all that deep.

Building the occasional seige engine to Zerg doors isn't the same as having to gain ground, and build your own keeps and structures to hold it.  There could also be an element of subterfuge that is missing and other cool game mechanics to direct smaller groups of players to perform key tasks.

You are welcome to your opnion about the WvW play, but don't pretend you are the only person playing the game just becaise we don't agree with your view.

You stated as "fact" that there is no building in the game when there is, if you are talking in particulars of making a keep where you see fit as a player, sure that would be great, but then it would be a balancing nightmare. As walls and more can be taken down, a door zerg might be your experience for not being in an organized guild, but in ones that are organized , wall breaches are the second coming when a keep is heavily defended. There are currently so many options to those willing to use them in this game that many of your statements conveyed as fact are far from that. Maybe in your humble opinion but then that's an opinion and the comment as fact as you stated here...

"It would be more interesting if the players themselves had to be involved in the building and keeping of these structure, which would require a more sandbox game approach"

In this you stated that the fact no one can build or keep structures is part of an issue, when the fact is you can do just this in game. No you can't build anywhere, but you can upgraded, repair a down-wall, add npc defenses and merchants, upgrade walls and towers for heavier defense. Add keep motors or cannons, build your own on keep walls etc. There is plenty to do here, you stated however there is not. So why you might take offense to my previous comment you where not very clear at all in your meaning. For this I apologize, but next time be clear. All these things are in game, you just don't like the variation that is there, that is of course your choice.

Originally posted by chaintm

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Originally posted by chaintm
You actually do build allot of stuff, so right there you just telling us you never participated, do you even own the game? Guilds can claim keeps, upgrade them (anyone can upgrade actually) and more. Definitly thinking by your statement you never played this game but just trolling for whatever reason.

You should learn not to come to baseless conclusions and state them as fact.  Not only did I pre-purchase this game, but I was there for the BWEs and I'm actively playing it now. I played GW1 and own all the expansions as well. I enjoy the game a lot currently, but I also don't think it's all that deep.

Building the occasional seige engine to Zerg doors isn't the same as having to gain ground, and build your own keeps and structures to hold it.  There could also be an element of subterfuge that is missing and other cool game mechanics to direct smaller groups of players to perform key tasks.

You are welcome to your opnion about the WvW play, but don't pretend you are the only person playing the game just becaise we don't agree with your view.

You stated as "fact" that there is no building in the game when there is, if you are talking in particulars of making a keep where you see fit as a player, sure that would be great, but then it would be a balancing nightmare. As walls and more can be taken down, a door zerg might be your experience for not being in an organized guild, but in ones that are organized , wall breaches are the second coming when a keep is heavily defended. There are currently so many options to those willing to use them in this game that many of your statements conveyed as fact are far from that. Maybe in your humble opinion but then that's an opinion and the comment as fact as you stated here...

 

"It would be more interesting if the players themselves had to be involved in the building and keeping of these structure, which would require a more sandbox game approach"

In this you stated that the fact no one can build or keep structures is part of an issue, when the fact is you can do just this in game. No you can't build anywhere, but you can upgraded, repair a down-wall, add npc defenses and merchants, upgrade walls and towers for heavier defense. Add keep motors or cannons, build your own on keep walls etc. There is plenty to do here, you stated however there is not. So why you might take offense to my previous comment you where not very clear at all in your meaning. For this I apologize, but next time be clear. All these things are in game, you just don't like the variation that is there, that is of course your choice.

 

I'll be sure to parse out my words *to death* so that you can follow me.  In fact, you read what you wanted to read because you are having a fanboy attack.  Hell, after years of playing GW1, and following the development of this game, I'm  not nearly as emotionally invested in it as you are.

There are static capture and hold structures.  It would be more fun, in my opinion, to have the players have to fight for ground, then build and hold their structures on the land they take.  Otherwise it feels a bit like a zerg circle jerk from point to point.  Is it fun?  I enjoy it sometimes.  Does it feel like there is complex battle and tactics?  Not in my opinion.

I had high hopes for WvW.  In fact, I wanted to like it so much, I moved from Jade Quarry, who was spanking everyone, to Fort Aspenwood so I can be on an underdog server.  The problem is, even if you have a very well organized team, the game mechanics favor zerg far too much.

Originally posted by dynamicipftw

Originally posted by Xobdnas

I know we live in a fast food culture only made worse my the rash of social media, me generation, and insta feedback gratification but the idea that a game as large and complex is GW2 can be handedly decided upon after such a limited amount of playtime is simply silly, and I discredit and laugh at all of the people giving a final nail and a review on said game at this point in time. An opinion, yes. But trying to flesh out an entire game when even the people who have somehow hit 80 admit they skip the majority of content variation just proves my point. Saddest of all my very long term MMO friend is possibly the worst of the worst when it comes to this. He is a disciple of Blizzard so I shouldn't be so shocked.

Friend at lvl 2: I dunno man, it feels clunky, I hate it already.

Friend at lvl 5: Ok I might cancel WOW for this.

Friend at lvl 8: I dunno man, I just don't have the drive to play it. I think I burned out and ...(goes on for 5 minutes reviewing the entire game)...and I don't get credit for heals, like people don't think I'm awesome for healing them because I'm not in groups and stuff.

Me: Did you try PVP at all? Did you try forming a group so they knew you were healing? WOW at lvl 8 was nothing, I don't think your far enough to make the kind of statement yet man.

Friend: Whatever (logs off)...

It's not your friend's problem, it's the game's. There is no motivation to reach max level as it is in other games. That's how I feel as well atm. Level to 80 to do what? I can already do everything that can be done in this game(except dungeons but I hate those in every game) from level 2 so why bother? My brother gave up at level 20 and i'm struggling to stay online since level 60. It's like  a chore now, I log on gain 1-2 levels and log off.

Backwards thinking imho. There is no rush my friend.  Why are you trying to level? Do the content that the good people at ArenaNet provided for you to do. This is not the other game where you get to 80 as fast as you can to grind for gear.

Anet did a great job of making a very accessible game. They did a good job paring down the skills and make it work. The combat feels fluid even though it's still your standard hotkey based MMO with dodge tossed in. The artwork in my personal opinion is a little bland - it still looks like generic fantasy MMO #34832 to me anyway. The game has issues, the tradepost issue is really annoying as is the grouping problems between main and overflow. There are plenty of times where I'm disconnected due to lag or while zoning. Is it any worse than most releases? No. Is it a better launch than most. No. It's par for the course really. Gameplay is fun, technical issues not so much.

The dynamic quest system, it's just a different take on what WAR and Rift did. This isn't a bad thing, it works rather well.

I enjoy GW2 for what it is, but I'm glad I didn't follow the hype. If I did, I would be disappointed. A lot of people talked about this game like it was the second coming of WoW, or the next big leap in MMO's. It's not. It's also not a deep game. What you see is what you get. This is all my opinion of course, others may see GW2 exactly the way the hype described it. I just see a well done fantasy MMO that will stick around.

Originally posted by kartool

Anet did a great job of making a very accessible game. They did a good job paring down the skills and make it work. The combat feels fluid even though it's still your standard hotkey based MMO with dodge tossed in. The artwork in my personal opinion is a little bland - it still looks like generic fantasy MMO #34832 to me anyway. The game has issues, the tradepost issue is really annoying as is the grouping problems between main and overflow. There are plenty of times where I'm disconnected due to lag or while zoning. Is it any worse than most releases? No. Is it a better launch than most. No. It's par for the course really. Gameplay is fun, technical issues not so much.

The dynamic quest system, it's just a different take on what WAR and Rift did. This isn't a bad thing, it works rather well.

 

I enjoy GW2 for what it is, but I'm glad I didn't follow the hype. If I did, I would be disappointed. A lot of people talked about this game like it was the second coming of WoW, or the next big leap in MMO's. It's not. It's also not a deep game. What you see is what you get. This is all my opinion of course, others may see GW2 exactly the way the hype described it. I just see a well done fantasy MMO that will stick around.

I've been saying on this site for years that there isn't going to be another WoW.  If we do have games that popular again, they will be at least a decade apart from each other.   GW2 is, at heart, more of the same themepark gameplay.  It's a great themepark, but still more or less the same as the games it was designed to compete with.

Sorry your getting ruffled by my responses, fanboy? I guess if that makes you feel better to say that is the reason I seen a statement as fact when that was the full response in that particular reply so be it. This is my last post on it at this point, but for me at least , your experiance and mine are definitly far apart. While there is a zerg mentality at times, the ones that break it are the ones that work beyond that zerg mind concept. I have given plenty of examples in how to, that is up to the player to decide.

Games are for entertainment and what you put into them to get that entertainment, if you do see the value here then that is your choice. Just like my choice of WoW, never liked it when I tried it a few times and that just won't change, but a few million players would disagree with me what I would consider makes that game lacking, so be it, it's all opinion in the end.

I was just pointing the facts out for what they are, you can build, own and promote defenses, you can use other tactics then zerging to win. It all comes down to know how, learning to adapt and wanting to push that aspect of the game play. If you want to fall into the mix of "what is fed to you and that's the way you play" then in my opinion yeah, you will end up just as a person who doesn't see a good game here.

The mechanics are in the game for those that want to use them, they just are not spoon fed.

Originally posted by Krytycal

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by lifeordinary

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Xobdnas

I know we live in a fast food culture only made worse my the rash of social media, me generation, and insta feedback gratification but the idea that a game as large and complex is GW2 can be handedly decided upon after such a limited amount of playtime is simply silly, and I discredit and laugh at all of the people giving a final nail and a review on said game at this point in time. 

...

Large and complex? Maybe I am missing something but GW 2 seems as simple as any ThemePark. It is a fairly linear and simple effort to cap to 80 and the deciding factor in PvP is who has the biggest zerg.

So I am not seeing much complexity here at all.

 Hehe I don't think you really get the game, but that's cool :).

WvW has caps on each server, you can only have so many players in one zone.  So a lot of the time, both sides have the same size of "zerg."  What matters is organization...someone has to be there to channel the zerg into a meaningful direction, and determine the best place to place the zerg's resources.

Not making this up...one well placed trebuchet can literally prevent an entire server zerg that doesn't have siege weapons from taking a keep.  Strategy matters.

You know i love the game but even i don't buy this bull of 'complexity'.

I think skill would be a better term then complexity.  Strategy isn't necessarily complex here, but a skillful and resourceful player of any class can defeat a player from any other class without any real penalty.

There was no strategy, skill or resourcefulness before GW2. No players, regardless of organization, were capable of taking on larger numbers and win before. These are all new concepts developed by ANET.

You just don't get it.

I don't know if you are joking or not.. but plenty of games had strategy where you could take on larger numbers with smaller numbers and win...

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

What group?   The thing is.. people don't play with other players in mind.  For example if I see an elementalist with a staff I don't think... "This guy can pop a healing rain on me if my health is low or I have a fire DoT on me" ...    people aren't thinking forward enough to really do that in PvE.  In PvP.. yeah.. you have a chance for that....

 

But the thing is,  with my mesmer I can solo most things fairly easily. Losing a few players who go down through poor decisions isn't really that bad when you consider that most of the time.. trying to pick up those players is even more hazardous.

Currently most of the help people provide for eachother is accidental -- just a byproduct of trying to keep themselves alive.  This is much different then in other MMOs where finding a good healer, tank, DPS... made your experience better - both by what kind of content you could take on and by getting to know another player more intimately then the GW2 PvE style of play.

 

 

 I thought we were talking about dungeons :)?  Also, I dunno, I have seen plenty elementalists pop down healing rain or geyser even in WvW...and Guardians shield people with their projectile reflector thingy.

Also...what about rezzing people in downed-state?  How is that accidental?

I dunno, I think there is plenty of support going on in GW2...you are just expecting the completely regimented trinity style support and you aren't seeing it.  My friend that plays a Guardian makes a HUGE difference in DEs by using empower.  Sure, most people don't know that he was the one doing it...but that's the same no matter what you do in DE's, just the nature of the beast in ANY game that has something like that.

Dungeons though, people will know you made a difference...if they don't, they are pretty bad players ;).

Dungeons are a different situation.. in regards to the OP especially as his friend would have to play a good amount before reaching a dungeon...  

Rezzing people isn't accidental, you're right.. but the reward is minimal, and most times in DEs.. if lots of players are going down.. its usually best not to overextend yourself to rez people or you'll go down too.   I think what makes it worse is a lot of players just expect to be rezzed... and if you don't do it right away they complain about it.  

Of course, experiences may vary.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

What group?   The thing is.. people don't play with other players in mind.  For example if I see an elementalist with a staff I don't think... "This guy can pop a healing rain on me if my health is low or I have a fire DoT on me" ...    people aren't thinking forward enough to really do that in PvE.  In PvP.. yeah.. you have a chance for that....

 

But the thing is,  with my mesmer I can solo most things fairly easily. Losing a few players who go down through poor decisions isn't really that bad when you consider that most of the time.. trying to pick up those players is even more hazardous.

Currently most of the help people provide for eachother is accidental -- just a byproduct of trying to keep themselves alive.  This is much different then in other MMOs where finding a good healer, tank, DPS... made your experience better - both by what kind of content you could take on and by getting to know another player more intimately then the GW2 PvE style of play.

 

 

 I thought we were talking about dungeons :)?  Also, I dunno, I have seen plenty elementalists pop down healing rain or geyser even in WvW...and Guardians shield people with their projectile reflector thingy.

Also...what about rezzing people in downed-state?  How is that accidental?

I dunno, I think there is plenty of support going on in GW2...you are just expecting the completely regimented trinity style support and you aren't seeing it.  My friend that plays a Guardian makes a HUGE difference in DEs by using empower.  Sure, most people don't know that he was the one doing it...but that's the same no matter what you do in DE's, just the nature of the beast in ANY game that has something like that.

Dungeons though, people will know you made a difference...if they don't, they are pretty bad players ;).

 

Dungeons are a different situation.. in regards to the OP especially as his friend would have to play a good amount before reaching a dungeon...  

Rezzing people isn't accidental, you're right.. but the reward is minimal, and most times in DEs.. if lots of players are going down.. its usually best not to overextend yourself to rez people or you'll go down too.   I think what makes it worse is a lot of players just expect to be rezzed... and if you don't do it right away they complain about it.  

 

Of course, experiences may vary.

 Yeah experiences may vary.  In my experience, I'm rezzed almost all the time when I go down, provided I am accessible.  And I typically rez anyone who goes down.  And you do get exp for it...it's not that much but it's something.

And really, it's pretty easy to get gold in most DEs if you just beat on the MOB for a little while.  So once you participate enough to get a gold, the rez exp is just gravy :).

I would like if support actions counted more towards getting gold in DE's though.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by lifeordinary

You know i love the game but even i don't buy this bull of 'complexity'.

But Creslin is right. Have a mindless zerg against a half sized organized group, and the zerg will most likely lose. I've seen this happen in game, and you can find several videos about this too.

Strategy prevails. And this will become more and more apparent.

Strategy always prevails over a Cluster****, I'm just wondering one thing, in PVP how does one call out targets? :)

Originally posted by Requiem1066

Originally posted by MindTrigger

  We need some sandboxes

 

I think we need Themeboxes or SandParks .. That's not trying to be funny btw .. But What I mean is a game that allow the freedom of a true sandbox game but once certain objectives are met, it injects Themepark elements.

Ie:

Let's take GW2 and imagine the human starting area only has DR city but no towns or forts or castles .. it would be up to the players to go out and build those things, collect the ore, lumber etc etc .. but once for example the town is built the game injects caravans to protect that move from the town to city , or attacks on the settlement etc

The themepark elements would be there and in the background but they would be dependent on what the players build. 

 I absolutely love this idea.

If you don't like the game from what you've experienced then that is perfectly valid, the developers should have done a better job. I can tell if I'm going to like a game within the first 5 or 10 mins based on how it plays......

I logged into Lotro for example and instantly hated what I saw and uninstalled and never played again. I'm not wrong, I just didn't like how it looked.

Originally posted by Rokurgepta

Originally posted by Requiem1066

Originally posted by MindTrigger

  We need some sandboxes

 

I think we need Themeboxes or SandParks .. That's not trying to be funny btw .. But What I mean is a game that allow the freedom of a true sandbox game but once certain objectives are met, it injects Themepark elements.

Ie:

Let's take GW2 and imagine the human starting area only has DR city but no towns or forts or castles .. it would be up to the players to go out and build those things, collect the ore, lumber etc etc .. but once for example the town is built the game injects caravans to protect that move from the town to city , or attacks on the settlement etc

The themepark elements would be there and in the background but they would be dependent on what the players build. 

 I absolutely love this idea.

Great idea but lets be real is it possible?  Look at how much time and money goes into the coding of a current MMO themepark game.  How are they going to code things and inject them into what the players are building?  Unless I do not understand what you mean by themepark...cause to me themepark means quest lines and mobs and dungeons etc and to code that into what and how people build the world is just not possible.

You could  add some of those elements into say a WvW pvp setting where instead of points on capping certain areas you actually build mines that give you resources or points and use them to build castles that other people try and attack.  But to try and base the main themepark world around that idea just is not something that can happen.

---

Originally posted by Betaguy

---

Originally posted by Xobdnas I know we live in a fast food culture only made worse my the rash of social media, me generation, and insta feedback gratification but the idea that a game as large and complex is GW2 can be handedly decided upon after such a limited amount of playtime is simply silly, and I discredit and laugh at all of the people giving a final nail and a review on said game at this point in time. An opinion, yes. But trying to flesh out an entire game when even the people who have somehow hit 80 admit they skip the majority of content variation just proves my point. Saddest of all my very long term MMO friend is possibly the worst of the worst when it comes to this. He is a disciple of Blizzard so I shouldn't be so shocked. Friend at lvl 2: I dunno man, it feels clunky, I hate it already. Friend at lvl 5: Ok I might cancel WOW for this. Friend at lvl 8: I dunno man, I just don't have the drive to play it. I think I burned out and ...(goes on for 5 minutes reviewing the entire game)...and I don't get credit for heals, like people don't think I'm awesome for healing them because I'm not in groups and stuff. Me: Did you try PVP at all? Did you try forming a group so they knew you were healing? WOW at lvl 8 was nothing, I don't think your far enough to make the kind of statement yet man. Friend: Whatever (logs off)...

---

I have played to level cap, game is severly lacking... I will go to MoP on the 25th....

---

Try Explorable dungeons, i heared they are tage quiters, nothing faceroll like WoW heroics.

But hey iam not here to let convince you ;)

MoP = same old same old, paying a syb + expack thats fails more then Cata, no thanks.
Blizzard greed has reached unilimited heights, and me and my wife are done with that.

Payed around 300 euro to transfer to new servers 2 times, both where full / medium and are now deserted, ghostowns.

2 years people beg blizzard to assist those realms, but they are blink deaf and play stupid.
No cent i will pay them now and in the future, they lost a 2 decade long loyal fan and hardcore player.

Hope you have fun there m8 ;)

Only the bad reviews are laughable, right? The reviews that came out the same day as release that gave a glowing 10/10, 96%, A++ review are just stating the facts.

I agree with the OPs thread title, but the body of his post makes it seem that he thinks that only those people who don't like the game need to shut up.

Originally posted by Xobdnas

and I don't get credit for heals, like people don't think I'm awesome for healing them because I'm not in groups and stuff.

Are ... people like that really existing .. ?

I thought such vulgar and pointless desires were reserved to caricatures ?

Originally posted by k-damage

Originally posted by Xobdnas

and I don't get credit for heals, like people don't think I'm awesome for healing them because I'm not in groups and stuff.

Are ... people like that really existing .. ?

I thought such vulgar and pointless desires were reserved to caricatures ?

Actually, playing a support role does come with a lot of satisfaction, and people who have much simpler roles, such as DPS are often thankful about it. A good tank is reward with positive feedback as well, and it's nice to be appreciated.

I take it you play DPS roles usually.  Even though I knew how this game was going to play, I still wanted to act as a pure healer in WvW, but couldn't.  It's not just about being thanked.  Without support in most games, the other players are useless fin sustained combat.  It's fun and challenging to keep people up.