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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Down Leveling

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226 posts found
  Doomedfox

Novice Member

Joined: 4/01/10
Posts: 696

9/04/12 4:27:27 PM#101
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by Doomedfox

 

It is one of the tools Anet uses to give players the illusion of a huge game world.

By always down leveling your character they make sure that you can play in all the zones while in other MMOs you will start a new Race to go through the leveling experience of there starter zone GW2 allows you to do it all on 1 character since lvls are completely pointless.

The game does not have more content for you could always go into low lvl zones in any MMo and do the quests there but it would be pointless to do so.

It also is a mechanic to ensure that there game works as intended if you would go into low lvl areas as lvl 80 you could change the outcome of all the DE by yourself so Anet does not have a choice in this matter they limited there options greatly with the choices they made so now ppl have to be downscaled or there game would break.

It does kill any serious attempt to play this game as an RPG for me it is just stupid but like i already pointed out i do understand why they use the mechanic.

Some mentioned the possibilities to do dungeons regardless of your level and i somewhat agree with that...HOWEVER they could just have a lvl cap for dungeons only and it would have the same result and i actually do not see much sense in doing lvl 30 dungeons if i am lvl 80 that is unless the drops in this game are pointless anyway (i guess cosmetic items could be the carrot on the stick to do low lvl dungeons for some tho)

Have you actually played the game? It does have a huge amount of content. I have talked to lvl 80 players and many of them have only done or been 20-30% of all the content.

 

I guess you really don't understand the idea of downleveling. It is so you can play with lower level guildmates/players and NOT 'one shot' everything in sight. Basically, it is preventing powerleveling. It is also there to make the game a challenge, not make it a walk in the park.

 

Why don't you actually play the game before you have an opinion - you can then have an educated one.

 

I did and am still playing the game yes.

I also am not just blindly praising everything which (at least in my opinion) makes me the one with the more educated opinion....

I am all for a lvl cap feature as long as the game does not force it on me (but i already explained why Anet does not really have a choice in that matter)

Like the lvl Sync in FF11 i join a pt and can sync my lvl and equip down to a lower lvl player i now can play with them as a low lvl cause i want to not cause i have to.

On a side note would i like to mention that a lot of the content (map completion) is nothing more but fake content again. 

Like the viewpoints is that really content?? Do i gain anything by visiting them? (well the ones with much climbing/jumping involved may count as jumping content)

But overall do i not see anything i did not see before i was at that point (and actually activated it).

I don't say GW2 does not have much content all i said is that with this kind of lvl cap system they give the illusion of actually having more.

Btw if my level does not mean anything since i will get caped down all the time why even bothering with a lvl mechanic?

Why not just lvl cap me up to high lvl zones i mean if the lvl means nothing anyway lets just get it done right and not stop halfway.

Maybe its just me but i want my hours of gaming/lvling to matter i want my lvls to mean something.

  geremady

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/16/11
Posts: 36

9/04/12 4:31:52 PM#102

IMO downscaling makes you painfully aware you are playing a game and are not living in a world.

It really - for me - is an immersion-breaking mechanic.

I understand all the reasons why they did it, but still....

  Zuvielify

Novice Member

Joined: 12/07/11
Posts: 170

9/04/12 4:38:11 PM#103
Originally posted by geremady

IMO downscaling makes you painfully aware you are playing a game and are not living in a world.

It really - for me - is an immersion-breaking mechanic.

I understand all the reasons why they did it, but still....

Your post made me think about this idea, and I actually think the exact opposite of you. In my mind, I see it as more realistic.

 

In the real world, better fighters (higher level in game terms) don't really have more health points. If I shoot a guy in the heart, it doesn't matter what his HP is, he's dead. What better fighters have is more skills; a bigger bag of tricks. They know how to punch, so they hit harder. All these things are true in GW2 downleveling; similar HP to everyone at that level, but more everything else. 

  Nevulus

Elite Member

Joined: 8/23/06
Posts: 1249

9/04/12 4:40:17 PM#104

I dont understand the whole downleveling concept. In theory it sounded great, during the BWEs it worked out great, then came the release :(

 

I can go back to a zone 5 lvls lower than me and still steamroll everything. Wasn't the point was for this NOT to happen? I don't get it.

  Badaboom

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/04/10
Posts: 2389

9/04/12 4:42:56 PM#105
Originally posted by Zuvielify
Originally posted by geremady

IMO downscaling makes you painfully aware you are playing a game and are not living in a world.

It really - for me - is an immersion-breaking mechanic.

I understand all the reasons why they did it, but still....

Your post made me think about this idea, and I actually think the exact opposite of you. In my mind, I see it as more realistic.

 

In the real world, better fighters (higher level in game terms) don't really have more health points. If I shoot a guy in the heart, it doesn't matter what his HP is, he's dead. What better fighters have is more skills; a bigger bag of tricks. They know how to punch, so they hit harder. All these things are true in GW2 downleveling; similar HP to everyone at that level, but more everything else. 

Pretty much this.  I don't know why someone would want greyed out mobs that cannot damage you and all content in the zone rendered obsolete vs relevant & challenging content.  It also allows you to play with lower leveled friends/guildies.

  Doomedfox

Novice Member

Joined: 4/01/10
Posts: 696

9/04/12 4:47:59 PM#106
Originally posted by Zuvielify
Originally posted by geremady

IMO downscaling makes you painfully aware you are playing a game and are not living in a world.

It really - for me - is an immersion-breaking mechanic.

I understand all the reasons why they did it, but still....

Your post made me think about this idea, and I actually think the exact opposite of you. In my mind, I see it as more realistic.

 

In the real world, better fighters (higher level in game terms) don't really have more health points. If I shoot a guy in the heart, it doesn't matter what his HP is, he's dead. What better fighters have is more skills; a bigger bag of tricks. They know how to punch, so they hit harder. All these things are true in GW2 downleveling; similar HP to everyone at that level, but more everything else. 

That is true however till the time you actually can kill someone with 1 attack in the heart its kinda meaningless.

A better fighter would prolly have better stamina better speed more skills and the tricks (expirience) you mentioned you certainly would see a difference right away 

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5763

9/04/12 4:50:16 PM#107
I love the downscaling just like mentoring in RIFT is one of my favorite features.  It keeps the entire world relevant and not just the end cap zones.  I just wish the mentoring in RIFT was automatic.

Curse you AquaScum!

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

9/04/12 4:50:34 PM#108
Originally posted by Zuvielify
Originally posted by geremady

IMO downscaling makes you painfully aware you are playing a game and are not living in a world.

It really - for me - is an immersion-breaking mechanic.

I understand all the reasons why they did it, but still....

Your post made me think about this idea, and I actually think the exact opposite of you. In my mind, I see it as more realistic.

 

In the real world, better fighters (higher level in game terms) don't really have more health points. If I shoot a guy in the heart, it doesn't matter what his HP is, he's dead. What better fighters have is more skills; a bigger bag of tricks. They know how to punch, so they hit harder. All these things are true in GW2 downleveling; similar HP to everyone at that level, but more everything else. 

 Exactly...I agree.  In the real world, you don't go out to army training and then come back home so powerful that when the local thugs hit you with baseball bats, they just bounce off you.  And when you hit them, they explode into a pile of multi-colored goo.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  Purutzil

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2860

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

9/04/12 4:53:04 PM#109

It keepes things a 'challenge' (which truthfully its not that hard to begin with, though eh, still makes it so it isn't some breeze either) which is nice.

 

 Biggest issue is it really kills the sense of progression to me. In GW2 I really didn't feel my character getting stronger which I think is part of the reason I wasn't so attached and got bored of the game far quicker then I usually do for most games.

  Doomedfox

Novice Member

Joined: 4/01/10
Posts: 696

9/04/12 4:53:04 PM#110
Originally posted by Badaboom
Originally posted by Zuvielify
Originally posted by geremady

IMO downscaling makes you painfully aware you are playing a game and are not living in a world.

It really - for me - is an immersion-breaking mechanic.

I understand all the reasons why they did it, but still....

Your post made me think about this idea, and I actually think the exact opposite of you. In my mind, I see it as more realistic.

 

In the real world, better fighters (higher level in game terms) don't really have more health points. If I shoot a guy in the heart, it doesn't matter what his HP is, he's dead. What better fighters have is more skills; a bigger bag of tricks. They know how to punch, so they hit harder. All these things are true in GW2 downleveling; similar HP to everyone at that level, but more everything else. 

Pretty much this.  I don't know why someone would want greyed out mobs that cannot damage you and all content in the zone rendered obsolete vs relevant & challenging content.  It also allows you to play with lower leveled friends/guildies.

Maybe you would want that just because there is no reason for you (lets say lvl 80) to have a hard time with a lvl 5 mobs its an RPG progression is part of it by capping my lvl its beeing taken away.

Give me the option to cap down but dont force me.  

GW2 theme was something like do whatever you want play like you want (something like that) well i would say forcing my lvl down is a big cut into my freedom of choice....

  BarCrow

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/25/07
Posts: 2193

9/04/12 4:54:11 PM#111

I wish real life was like most MMOs then I would only walk down the level 1-5 dark alleys to get home.

 

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

9/04/12 4:54:28 PM#112

Downscaling is a wonderful feature.  For once, I can just go back to any zone I've been to before (or missed) and it's still rewarding for me.  In other games, only a VERY SPECIFIC part of the world was viable for me to be in at any given level. 

Like maybe 3 zones out of 40 were viable at any one point in time.  And this always annoyed me.  It made an otherwise huge world feel very claustrophobic.  It was like I was living in a world for 40 huge zones, but was essentially under house arrest.

The only complaints leveled against downscaling that I have seen are:

1.  It's too hard.

2.  I can't go back and pwn grey mobs!

Number 2 is just dumb...I mean, really?  You want to give up the ability to explore a very large amount of the world at any level and be rewarded for pwning grey mobs?

As for number 1...I dunno, I like games harder...and honestly, I don't think GW2 is all that hard.  I know that some will disagree but well...it's not for everyone.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  Doomedfox

Novice Member

Joined: 4/01/10
Posts: 696

9/04/12 4:59:00 PM#113
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by Zuvielify
Originally posted by geremady

IMO downscaling makes you painfully aware you are playing a game and are not living in a world.

It really - for me - is an immersion-breaking mechanic.

I understand all the reasons why they did it, but still....

Your post made me think about this idea, and I actually think the exact opposite of you. In my mind, I see it as more realistic.

 

In the real world, better fighters (higher level in game terms) don't really have more health points. If I shoot a guy in the heart, it doesn't matter what his HP is, he's dead. What better fighters have is more skills; a bigger bag of tricks. They know how to punch, so they hit harder. All these things are true in GW2 downleveling; similar HP to everyone at that level, but more everything else. 

 Exactly...I agree.  In the real world, you don't go out to army training and then come back home so powerful that when the local thugs hit you with baseball bats, they just bounce off you.  And when you hit them, they explode into a pile of multi-colored goo.

Lol well maybe not but with propper training you can get out of that situation as the one standing while someone without the training will prolly end up far worse.

I think its actually exactly like in the games.

You start as low lvl your reflexes stamina strenght its all low and on top of that you have no skils to even use the traist you posses.

After years of training that changed a lot tho.

If the trained person now would face of against an untrained person you would see the difference in lvl right away.....

  AZHokie54

Novice Member

Joined: 12/23/11
Posts: 295

9/04/12 5:01:47 PM#114
I love it, makes the entire world level appropriate even if I'm at 80.
  Badaboom

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/04/10
Posts: 2389

9/04/12 5:05:03 PM#115
Originally posted by Doomedfox
Originally posted by Badaboom
Originally posted by Zuvielify
Originally posted by geremady

IMO downscaling makes you painfully aware you are playing a game and are not living in a world.

It really - for me - is an immersion-breaking mechanic.

I understand all the reasons why they did it, but still....

Your post made me think about this idea, and I actually think the exact opposite of you. In my mind, I see it as more realistic.

 

In the real world, better fighters (higher level in game terms) don't really have more health points. If I shoot a guy in the heart, it doesn't matter what his HP is, he's dead. What better fighters have is more skills; a bigger bag of tricks. They know how to punch, so they hit harder. All these things are true in GW2 downleveling; similar HP to everyone at that level, but more everything else. 

Pretty much this.  I don't know why someone would want greyed out mobs that cannot damage you and all content in the zone rendered obsolete vs relevant & challenging content.  It also allows you to play with lower leveled friends/guildies.

Maybe you would want that just because there is no reason for you (lets say lvl 80) to have a hard time with a lvl 5 mobs its an RPG progression is part of it by capping my lvl its beeing taken away.

Give me the option to cap down but dont force me.  

GW2 theme was something like do whatever you want play like you want (something like that) well i would say forcing my lvl down is a big cut into my freedom of choice....

I would say it does not "cut into" as it does not prevent you.

  SirFubar

Novice Member

Joined: 7/21/11
Posts: 403

9/04/12 5:10:45 PM#116
Originally posted by loeslein

When you are down leveled and you are still having trouble with a quest you must go find better GEAR to get better STATS.

Everybody says gear doesn't matter in this game but it's actually quite important.  If you are a crappy geared lvl 10 player when you get down leveled to say lvl 5...  Well, you're still going to be a crappy geared lvl 5 player!

 

If you have trouble with a quest you just gotta grind out basically any area for some better gear and then tackle the quest again.

This is sooooooo not true. On my 43 elementalist, I'm still using the same gear that I had at my 20's and I don't have any problems whatsoever to do any quests. Sure I may die sometimes because I did a stupid move, but it wasn't because of my gear.

  Rokurgepta

Novice Member

Joined: 8/15/08
Posts: 2208

9/04/12 5:15:36 PM#117
Originally posted by SirFubar
Originally posted by loeslein

When you are down leveled and you are still having trouble with a quest you must go find better GEAR to get better STATS.

Everybody says gear doesn't matter in this game but it's actually quite important.  If you are a crappy geared lvl 10 player when you get down leveled to say lvl 5...  Well, you're still going to be a crappy geared lvl 5 player!

 

If you have trouble with a quest you just gotta grind out basically any area for some better gear and then tackle the quest again.

This is sooooooo not true. On my 43 elementalist, I'm still using the same gear that I had at my 20's and I don't have any problems whatsoever to do any quests. Sure I may die sometimes because I did a stupid move, but it wasn't because of my gear.

 I think certain classes are a little more gear dependant than others though. Granted I have not reached the level of your elementalist but I find mine at level 11 to be less gear dependant than say my Guardian or Ranger is.

  Badaboom

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/04/10
Posts: 2389

9/04/12 5:16:09 PM#118
Originally posted by AZHokie54
I love it, makes the entire world level appropriate even if I'm at 80.

Also, whenever new content is added, that content is also level appropriate.  Without level scaling, all new content must be designed for max levels, or higher if level cap is raised.  Lower level content added would only be experienced by new players or alts.

So linear content additions for games with no level scaling vs circular (?) additional content to be enjoyed by everyone.

  laserit

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/10
Posts: 1450

Confusius say: Man who go to bed with itchy bum wake up with stinky finger

9/04/12 5:17:40 PM#119
Originally posted by Thillian

It kills the entire point of RPG system, i.e., improving your character and feeling the growth of your powers compared the environment and PvE. 

If the difficulty scales to your power, there is no need to have RPG system in place. 

People who like it are generally coming from the FPS games.

People who dislike it are generally coming from the RPG genre.

That's bologny

I've always hated the concept of level's, being able to one shot a troll or a dragon is just plain stupid. Stat and ability progression is much more important then some dumb arbitrary level number. The leveling system as far as I can recall, pretty much started with D&D and should have stayed there.

Zenimax kicked my dog

  Rokurgepta

Novice Member

Joined: 8/15/08
Posts: 2208

9/04/12 5:18:58 PM#120
Originally posted by Badaboom
Originally posted by AZHokie54
I love it, makes the entire world level appropriate even if I'm at 80.

Also, whenever new content is added, that content is also level appropriate.  Without level scaling, all new content must be designed for max levels, or higher if level cap is raised.  Lower level content added would only be experienced by new players or alts.

So linear content additions for games with no level scaling vs circular (?) additional content to be enjoyed by everyone.

 I like the fact I can leave my area through the Asura gates and visit another area and do the quests at appropriate levels and still enjoy the challenge. Generally you are still a little OP for the normal fights but when a DE pops up you can still be challenged.

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