I know we live in a fast food culture only made worse my the rash of social media, me generation, and insta feedback gratification but the idea that a game as large and complex is GW2 can be handedly decided upon after such a limited amount of playtime is simply silly, and I discredit and laugh at all of the people giving a final nail and a review on said game at this point in time. An opinion, yes. But trying to flesh out an entire game when even the people who have somehow hit 80 admit they skip the majority of content variation just proves my point. Saddest of all my very long term MMO friend is possibly the worst of the worst when it comes to this. He is a disciple of Blizzard so I shouldn't be so shocked.

Friend at lvl 2: I dunno man, it feels clunky, I hate it already.

Friend at lvl 5: Ok I might cancel WOW for this.

Friend at lvl 8: I dunno man, I just don't have the drive to play it. I think I burned out and ...(goes on for 5 minutes reviewing the entire game)...and I don't get credit for heals, like people don't think I'm awesome for healing them because I'm not in groups and stuff.

Me: Did you try PVP at all? Did you try forming a group so they knew you were healing? WOW at lvl 8 was nothing, I don't think your far enough to make the kind of statement yet man.

Friend: Whatever (logs off)...

Originally posted by Xobdnas

I know we live in a fast food culture only made worse my the rash of social media, me generation, and insta feedback gratification but the idea that a game as large and complex is GW2 can be handedly decided upon after such a limited amount of playtime is simply silly, and I discredit and laugh at all of the people giving a final nail and a review on said game at this point in time. An opinion, yes. But trying to flesh out an entire game when even the people who have somehow hit 80 admit they skip the majority of content variation just proves my point. Saddest of all my very long term MMO friend is possibly the worst of the worst when it comes to this. He is a disciple of Blizzard so I shouldn't be so shocked.

Friend at lvl 2: I dunno man, it feels clunky, I hate it already.

Friend at lvl 5: Ok I might cancel WOW for this.

Friend at lvl 8: I dunno man, I just don't have the drive to play it. I think I burned out and ...(goes on for 5 minutes reviewing the entire game)...and I don't get credit for heals, like people don't think I'm awesome for healing them because I'm not in groups and stuff.

Me: Did you try PVP at all? Did you try forming a group so they knew you were healing? WOW at lvl 8 was nothing, I don't think your far enough to make the kind of statement yet man.

Friend: Whatever (logs off)...

 LOL he should have played to level 11 so he would want to cancel WoW for GW2 again...then of course he would just decide to hate the game again at level 14 if his pattern proves accurate ;).

Originally posted by Xobdnas

I know we live in a fast food culture only made worse my the rash of social media, me generation, and insta feedback gratification but the idea that a game as large and complex is GW2 can be handedly decided upon after such a limited amount of playtime is simply silly, and I discredit and laugh at all of the people giving a final nail and a review on said game at this point in time. An opinion, yes. But trying to flesh out an entire game when even the people who have somehow hit 80 admit they skip the majority of content variation just proves my point. Saddest of all my very long term MMO friend is possibly the worst of the worst when it comes to this. He is a disciple of Blizzard so I shouldn't be so shocked.

Friend at lvl 2: I dunno man, it feels clunky, I hate it already.

Friend at lvl 5: Ok I might cancel WOW for this.

Friend at lvl 8: I dunno man, I just don't have the drive to play it. I think I burned out and ...(goes on for 5 minutes reviewing the entire game)...and I don't get credit for heals, like people don't think I'm awesome for healing them because I'm not in groups and stuff.

Me: Did you try PVP at all? Did you try forming a group so they knew you were healing? WOW at lvl 8 was nothing, I don't think your far enough to make the kind of statement yet man.

Friend: Whatever (logs off)...

I have played to level cap, game is severly lacking... I will go to MoP on the 25th....

I thank the 2 of you or providing solid evidence to my thesis.

The problem isn't Guild Wars 2.  The problem is none of these games are significantly different enought to excite a lot of people.  Themeparks aren't going to be either.  All of the ones coming down the road are basically the same, just like how FPS games are basically the same.

The genre needs more diversity of play style.  We need some sandboxes, and I think we need an "adult"  mmo game that caters to adults directly. When you conider how many adults are playing these game compared to kids playing console games, it's no wonder why everyone is tired of these candy-coated cartoon worlds.

For the record, I am currently enjoying GW2 at level 29, but I also see it for exactly what it is.  A very well conceived themepark game that was a labor of love for the developers.  They did a fantastic job on this game, but I think a large chunk of the market is moving away from simplified handholding games, and they want something more interesting.

If anyone thinks this is clunky... I dunno what to tell them. They must literally be married to exactly one thing and totally unable to adapt to the slightest nuances.

Great post, OP. I lol'd.

Originally posted by Betaguy

Originally posted by Xobdnas

I know we live in a fast food culture only made worse my the rash of social media, me generation, and insta feedback gratification but the idea that a game as large and complex is GW2 can be handedly decided upon after such a limited amount of playtime is simply silly, and I discredit and laugh at all of the people giving a final nail and a review on said game at this point in time. An opinion, yes. But trying to flesh out an entire game when even the people who have somehow hit 80 admit they skip the majority of content variation just proves my point. Saddest of all my very long term MMO friend is possibly the worst of the worst when it comes to this. He is a disciple of Blizzard so I shouldn't be so shocked.

Friend at lvl 2: I dunno man, it feels clunky, I hate it already.

Friend at lvl 5: Ok I might cancel WOW for this.

Friend at lvl 8: I dunno man, I just don't have the drive to play it. I think I burned out and ...(goes on for 5 minutes reviewing the entire game)...and I don't get credit for heals, like people don't think I'm awesome for healing them because I'm not in groups and stuff.

Me: Did you try PVP at all? Did you try forming a group so they knew you were healing? WOW at lvl 8 was nothing, I don't think your far enough to make the kind of statement yet man.

Friend: Whatever (logs off)...

I have played to level cap, game is severly lacking... I will go to MoP on the 25th....

I beta'd MoP and you're in for a surprise...

Originally posted by Xobdnas

I know we live in a fast food culture only made worse my the rash of social media, me generation, and insta feedback gratification but the idea that a game as large and complex is GW2 can be handedly decided upon after such a limited amount of playtime is simply silly, and I discredit and laugh at all of the people giving a final nail and a review on said game at this point in time. 

...

Large and complex? Maybe I am missing something but GW 2 seems as simple as any ThemePark. It is a fairly linear and simple effort to cap to 80 and the deciding factor in PvP is who has the biggest zerg.

So I am not seeing much complexity here at all.

Originally posted by MindTrigger

The problem isn't Guild Wars 2.  The problem is none of these games are significantly different enought to excite a lot of people.  Themeparks aren't going to be either.  All of the ones coming down the road are basically the same, just like how FPS games are basically the same.

The genre needs more diversity of play style.  We need some sandboxes, and I think we need an "adult"  mmo game that caters to adults directly. When you conider how many adults are playing these game compared to kids playing console games, it's no wonder why everyone is tired of these candy-coated cartoon worlds.

For the record, I am currently enjoying GW2 at level 29, but I also see it for exactly what it is.  A very well conceived themepark game that was a labor of love for the developers.  They did a fantastic job on this game, but I think a large chunk of the market is moving away from simplified handholding games, and they want something more interesting.

 

Please take your logic and coherent arguments somewhere else. We don't take kindly to your types 'round here.

I approach MMOs the same way I approach single-player games.  I got about 100 hours out of Skyrim which is waaaay more than the vast majority of games.  At $60 I feel like Skyrim was a good purchase.  If I can get 100 hours out of Guild Wars 2 at any point in its life cycle (since there is no sub fee I don't have to worry about when I get the 100 hours) then it will have been a good purchase whether I hit 80 or not.

Is it a fun game?  Yes.  Is it the kind of game I can see myself loggin in and running some DE's every now and again?  Yes.  Do I think I'll get 100 hours?  Most assuredly more. 

I'm a  healer type as well and I do enjoy that mechanic so hopefully there will be more MMOs in the future that cater to that style, but for now I'm happy with a game that doesn't force it down our throats for once.

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Xobdnas

I know we live in a fast food culture only made worse my the rash of social media, me generation, and insta feedback gratification but the idea that a game as large and complex is GW2 can be handedly decided upon after such a limited amount of playtime is simply silly, and I discredit and laugh at all of the people giving a final nail and a review on said game at this point in time. 

...

Large and complex? Maybe I am missing something but GW 2 seems as simple as any ThemePark. It is a fairly linear and simple effort to cap to 80 and the deciding factor in PvP is who has the biggest zerg.

So I am not seeing much complexity here at all.

 Hehe I don't think you really get the game, but that's cool :).

WvW has caps on each server, you can only have so many players in one zone.  So a lot of the time, both sides have the same size of "zerg."  What matters is organization...someone has to be there to channel the zerg into a meaningful direction, and determine the best place to place the zerg's resources.

Not making this up...one well placed trebuchet can literally prevent an entire server zerg that doesn't have siege weapons from taking a keep.  Strategy matters.

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Xobdnas

I know we live in a fast food culture only made worse my the rash of social media, me generation, and insta feedback gratification but the idea that a game as large and complex is GW2 can be handedly decided upon after such a limited amount of playtime is simply silly, and I discredit and laugh at all of the people giving a final nail and a review on said game at this point in time. 

...

Large and complex? Maybe I am missing something but GW 2 seems as simple as any ThemePark. It is a fairly linear and simple effort to cap to 80 and the deciding factor in PvP is who has the biggest zerg.

So I am not seeing much complexity here at all.

While WvW is a bit of mindless fun, I agree that it's probably going to get old fast if this is all there is too it.  I mean there really are no tactics to speak of, no real planning involved, no small infiltration teams, etc.  ANet should go look at the mechanics that make warfare fun in modern FPS games fun.

WvW would be a great place to take the game "sandbox" and let people sort of live in there.  Make it an area where there is player housing, risk and reward, etc.  The Zerg is fun once in a while, but there's not much to it and no single player feels like they matter much.  I know sPvP addresses some of this, but the problem is that a lot of people don't care about sPvP.  I sure don't.  I love WvW in theory, but it's going to need more interesting features added.

By the way, this is also why World PvP and PvP servers are fun to some of us.  It adds that element of open combat to everyday gameplay.  It's not for everyone, but I dig it.

Originally posted by MindTrigger

  We need some sandboxes

 

I think we need Themeboxes or SandParks .. That's not trying to be funny btw .. But What I mean is a game that allow the freedom of a true sandbox game but once certain objectives are met, it injects Themepark elements.

Ie:

Let's take GW2 and imagine the human starting area only has DR city but no towns or forts or castles .. it would be up to the players to go out and build those things, collect the ore, lumber etc etc .. but once for example the town is built the game injects caravans to protect that move from the town to city , or attacks on the settlement etc

The themepark elements would be there and in the background but they would be dependent on what the players build. 

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Xobdnas

I know we live in a fast food culture only made worse my the rash of social media, me generation, and insta feedback gratification but the idea that a game as large and complex is GW2 can be handedly decided upon after such a limited amount of playtime is simply silly, and I discredit and laugh at all of the people giving a final nail and a review on said game at this point in time. 

...

Large and complex? Maybe I am missing something but GW 2 seems as simple as any ThemePark. It is a fairly linear and simple effort to cap to 80 and the deciding factor in PvP is who has the biggest zerg.

So I am not seeing much complexity here at all.

Obviously you don't get it. It's all about strategy man, not zergs. A couple of days ago I saw Tsun Zu with 5 other dudes tearing up WvWvW with them underground guerilla tactics and calculating siege weapons' projectile trajectories. It was so complex my feeble mind almost asploded.

I think the OP poses a lot of good points though.  In all honesty,  healing is actually pretty important when you do it right.. but so does mitigating damage, blocking it, reflecting it.. or even applying certain conditions to targets....  

At the higher levels.. (50+)  its really important in PvE to have players that know what they're doing and how to use their skills...  and the game caters to that kind of gameplay because your skills don't change much from 30+  so you have a long time to get acquainted with them. (which can get kind of boring for some classes).

Point being, keeping players alive doesn't net you much profit, in the way of medals at the end of events.  In PvP its important, but you are stuck in a dedicated group - which never happens in PvE naturally - so it gives it more of a traditional MMO feel.

You also get that traditional MMO feel from dungeons... where a single player really can shine by showing what they can do...  but he would have to play to 30 before he gets a chance to experience that.  Otherwise he can group up with people but the open world is still just a cluster of spammed skills most of the time, and everything you do gets lost in the shuffle.