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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

Reviews & Impressions  » GW2 was my last hope for the genre....... so back to paper and pencil

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148 posts found

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/04
Posts: 108

9/03/12 7:36:35 PM#21

One of the many reasons WoW grew to be so popular was that it was designed in a way that allowed for all different types of players. Quieter people who preferred playing alone or with friends and family could now progress through most--and eventually all--of the kind of content that was previously restricted to players who enjoyed working in large groups, meeting new players and getting to know them. Obviously this blew the genre wide open, and now most developers take a similar path, since it allows for a bigger potential playerbase. That doesn't necessarily mean that MMOs nowadays have no social interaction; it just means that you have to be willing to seek out that interaction for yourself, spending time looking for a guild full of total strangers and then actually talking to them. Not all players will do that, but what's so wrong with that?


Anyway, best of luck. I'm a gamer-of-all-trades, myself, so I'll always keep an eye on the MMO genre. It offers a large collection of features you can't always get from other genres in videogames. I'll keep enjoying single-player RPGs, too, and shooters, and sports games, and action-adventures, and puzzle games, and party games, and tabletop games... ... ...all things in moderation.


Novice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 147

9/03/12 7:37:16 PM#22
After TOR and GW2 I realized there are only two MMOs for me, EvE and Secret World. Everything else is not worth my time anymore.

Novice Member

Joined: 9/19/10
Posts: 48

9/03/12 7:43:18 PM#23
Ifeel for you OP. I went back to PnP about a year ago. I have much more fun with that than any of the recent MMORPGs, if you can even call them that anymore. The only issue with PnP is that you can't play whenever you want.  I hope it works out well for you.

Novice Member

Joined: 4/27/12
Posts: 448

The opinion of a penguin.

9/03/12 7:43:43 PM#24
Originally posted by Ballsout
[mod edit]

Insert Futurama Fry meme.

  User Deleted
9/03/12 7:44:59 PM#25
Originally posted by Ballsout
[mod edit]

What? This does not compute. If you don't like this game you're awesome? Is that what you meant? I can't think of anything else you could have possibly meant by this. 


Advanced Member

Joined: 7/10/12
Posts: 28

9/03/12 7:46:40 PM#26


Check out 'Neverwinter' 

Its bringing real DnD to the internet. Looks pretty cool, check out the 'Foundry'

  User Deleted
9/03/12 7:47:38 PM#27
Originally posted by Wraithone

I wish you all the best.  I'm of two minds here. I quite agree, some of my best memories have been of interactions with other players, over the years. But also some of my worst memories. Its reached the point that I really have no interest in dealing with 95% plus of the gaming population, so being able to play solo has been a bonus.  

I'm very interested in seeing where MMO's go, as technology advances. Perhaps once VR manages to solve its various problems, and becomes wide spread, we will find more of the group interaction we are looking for.  Until that time, I'll play solo, and I wish you and your friends the very best of  luck and fun. 

Same as everything else in life, no? You take in the good with the bad. You can't have one without the other, imo. At least, not in this world.


Novice Member

Joined: 5/07/12
Posts: 20

9/03/12 7:47:39 PM#28

OP may i have your log in info so i can try it out? :)


Im in the same boat as you but just moved away from all my old DnD friends so i have to connect with some new ones, could take some time.


Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/08
Posts: 1687

All it takes for evil to succeed is for the good to stand by and do nothing

9/03/12 7:48:41 PM#29
Have to admit I find it a bit odd you were pinning these hopes on GW2 rather than Archage or the like.

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 20138

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

9/03/12 7:54:16 PM#30
Originally posted by RebelScum99
Originally posted by Syno23
Did you forget Dungeons, WvW, Dynamic Events, and what not. They all REQUIRE a group. So I dont know what you're talking about buddy.

You missed the point of the post.  Dynamic Events don't require a group because they scale.  But even if they didn't scale, the grouping is done for you automatically.  So technically, there is no difference between completing a dynamic event and completing a solo quest.  Because you aren't required to do anything to complete it.  In other words, no social interaction is required.  ANET has basically takent all the difficult content in the game, and allowed you to finish it without ever uttering a word to anyone.  

There is a difference between "group content" and "social content."

This is the point people miss, what MMO's lost in the last 10 years is not grouping, DF's and other tools such as dynamic events have resolved the problem of finding groups.

It's the core game design that's been the issue, people are so busy now with the actual "mechanics" of the gameplay there's no time for any real interaction. (except perhaps with your guild via voice comms)

Face it, the majority of today's MMO players aren't in it for the socialization, they're here to play a game and that's what the developers have been delivering, though I question how well that's really worked out for them.



In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
"I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon


Novice Member

Joined: 10/23/08
Posts: 553

9/03/12 7:57:10 PM#31
Lol, silly people comparing MMORPG and Pen and Pencil RPG... this forum never cease to amaze me

Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
Waiting for: Pathfinder Online


Novice Member

Joined: 1/03/11
Posts: 88

9/03/12 7:57:28 PM#32

GW2 gives you plenty of tools to create strong server-wide communities... that's kind of the whole point of WvWvW. This is a brand new game... if you want a community, you gotta help build it. Stop expecting someone else to hand it to you on a platter.

moleculex Xfire Miniprofile

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 20138

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

9/03/12 8:06:28 PM#33
Originally posted by dzoni87
Lol, silly people comparing MMORPG and Pen and Pencil RPG... this forum never cease to amaze me

You're too young to remember, your ignorance can be forgiven.

As the OP said, when the first MMORPG's were created, they shared a lot in common with their Pen and Paper ancestors, but have moved dramatically away from them in recent years.


In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
"I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon


Novice Member

Joined: 6/01/08
Posts: 232

9/03/12 8:07:14 PM#34

I agree with you OP.  The community has gotten a lot worse in mmorpgs these days and I have often thought about just playing pen and paper rpgs myself(I have been playing them since 83).  Especially with all the good virtual tabletops for rpgs, playing a pen and paper rpg with friends that live far away is even possible.

I originally came to mmorpgs hoping to experience  a PnP rpg experience in a computer game format.  It quickly became apparent that they are a different form of entertainment.  However I still love to play mmorpgs and probably always will.   I go into them knowing that it will never be a deep social experience.  But in order to help with that I play my mmorpgs of choice with my wife and real life friends.  Any other cool people that I meet in game is just a bonus.  

So yeah if you are only looking for social interaction then PnP rpgs are the way to go.  But personally I find  a lot of value in both kinds of games.  I am looking forward to seeing all the future releases of mmorpgs.  I especially can not wait to hear more details about Everquest Next.



Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 17123

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

9/03/12 8:07:28 PM#35
Originally posted by Asgrim

GW2 gives you plenty of tools to create strong server-wide communities... that's kind of the whole point of WvWvW. This is a brand new game... if you want a community, you gotta help build it. Stop expecting someone else to hand it to you on a platter.

That's a very small part of a typical social oriented design, what about those who do not PVP?

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me


Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 613

9/03/12 8:13:21 PM#36

First I'm starting to think I can buy a used GW's 2 on the cheap....

OP what are you thinking of games like Divinity Original Sin? I do look forward to that next year, not a mmo but a Coop RPG with a lot of old-school ideas?

PnP to me has never been like a MMO. PnP is like entering an instanced dungeon with a small group. That is why I like DDO. However that isn't turn based, so I go back to Original Sin. Also a lot of turnbased games coming via Kickstarter.

Also interested to see how Neverwinter turns out. Again it will be small groups running instanced dungeons, but that is PnP roots to me.

Going back to PnP because a mmo doesn't pan out, doesn't equal out to me. PnP isn't mmo'ish imo at all.


Wizards of the coast tried a few years back to make another attempt at actual DnD on a computer. Crashed and burned, never made it out the door.


Novice Member

Joined: 10/23/08
Posts: 553

9/03/12 8:14:46 PM#37
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by dzoni87
Lol, silly people comparing MMORPG and Pen and Pencil RPG... this forum never cease to amaze me

You're too young to remember, your ignorance can be forgiven.

As the OP said, when the first MMORPG's were created, they shared a lot in common with their Pen and Paper ancestors, but have moved dramatically away from them in recent years.


Agree with that statement. Still, PnP will always be PnP. Cant compare nothing with that.

And i know what old-school MUDs are like. You cant really question my comprehension :D

EDIT: we arent talking about very first MMOs though. As far as i know GW2 isnt one :O and its far from old-school ones.

Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
Waiting for: Pathfinder Online


Novice Member

Joined: 7/28/06
Posts: 429

9/03/12 8:17:31 PM#38
Originally posted by teakinator

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I have been playing MMOs since Everquest and I have noticed a disturbing trend.  Prior to EQ, those of us that loved the fantasy genre played roleplaying games with dice, paper, pencil and a group of friends.  The game was best enjoyed with a group, all contributing both through their charaacters skills but probably even more importantly through their wit and roleplaying.  The memories of those years of paper and pencil gaming will last me a lifetime and I think of them fondly.

Of course, as technology allowed our paper and pencil games to move to computer (i.e., Bards Tale, Ultima and Wizardry) and ultimately the internet (Everquest) the games at the beginning of the computer version of the fantasy genre were very similar to paper and pencil gaming as they placed a huge emphasis on grouping for EVERYTHING.  I have played every major MMO since EQ1 and while the game play and graphics are always improving, the PvE part of the games is not in my opinion.  Quests in EQ were hard and long.  EQOA had questlines that took weeks to complete and you needed a group for basically every part of the quest.  EQ2 came out and added a solo-element to the game.  While for me at first this was a welcomed change and allowed me to enjoy the genre without the time sink necessary to have a regular group, I didn’t realize until Guild Wars 2 how much I have missed grouping as a requirement and how much MMOs have changed, negatively in my opinion, since EQ1.

I will give GW2 great applause for a very polished gameplay experience but what is missing in mind (and RIFT had the same problem) is the community.  No one really chats and there is very little reason to group.  As an old paper and pencil fuddy-duddy from the 1970s what is missing from GW2 (and it is missing from RIFT, WOW, SWTOR, LOTRO and others) is the need to group for more than just raids or dungeons.  Grouping for regular grinding or epic quests creates lots of opportunities for meaningful and prolonged interaction, banter,  which lead to meaningful in-game friendships.With the elimination of a standalone healer class this downward slide away from grouping was the last straw for me. 

So, to those that I have played with online (Dairith, Qen, Nicci, Windbear, Xerios, Windbear, and Maxpain) thank you for the memories from the EQ and WoW franchise.  As of an hour ago, I have decided that GW2 was the last MMO I will ever play.  I have deleted the game from the computer and actually pulled out my paper and pencil PATHFINDER books and am forming a local group of adults (have 4 so far) and we are going to have the interaction that we hoped could have been achieved from videogames.   So my departure from GW2 (and retirement from MMOs) should not be taken as a reflection on the gameplay, but instead a fundamental flaw in the MMO market--- the lost art of meaningful and longer term interaction with other players.  Prior to my retirement, I choose to play MMOs over Single-player RPG because I desired the company of other individuals to create shared memories, experiences, and friendships.  I have been playing GW2 since beta and found that there is very minimal chatting…. People are just too busy smashing buttons.  Quests are short and travel distances are short… it seems that others who are playing this game just don’t have the same need that I do for the connection with other players.  So farewell MMOs….. I will be slaying my dragons with 4 friends in the same room, a number of cold beers, plastic dice, metal miniatures and graph paper.

Teak Dharan

OP: You do realize that since EQ times have changed right? I use to play EQ and everyone typed we even raided by typing and got stuff done in that game. I believe the reason there are not much chatting anymore is because of things like Ventrilo, Mumble and Team Speak. Just about EVERY guild uses it. So people do not often pay attention to text chat. I use to be all for text chat but Vent is just better. For years now I would join a guild and theres tons of people on and barely anyone says anything or hello. I thought at first this was just an unfriendly guild but I soon realized it was not everyone was in ventrilo and interacting there. To play games today you need to use one of these voice programs. Voice makes it more personalized.

Now I am not sure if you were anti voice or not but really almost any guild has some form of voice chat. All you needed to do was find one that had a lot of people and it would probably fulfill your social gaming needs. As well as make some awesome friends along the way that you may be buddies with for years to come. I know I did. My friends and I met a bunch of games ago and years later we play everything everyone wants. We go to the same guilds and when we don't have a guild we have our own personal vent as well. In general yes I notice you ask in map a question and it is dead silence. Sure it sucks but I guarantee you most of those people are chatting in vent or elsewhere with there guild. If you went to a guild where vent was dead try another one because there are awesome guilds out there that are very active in voice. I am guessing you are a little antisocial or something I don't know. Good luck in your endeavors. You will be back lol for another MMO down the road!


Advanced Member

Joined: 11/10/05
Posts: 5651

9/03/12 8:17:35 PM#39

Op, your first mistake was putting all your mmo hopes into an esport action mmo. Gotta diversify your funds, yo. Wildstar, world of darkness, planetside 2, pso2, repopulation, archeage. Theres always something to look forward to. Gw2 didnt do it for ya? Thats fine theres plenty more on the way.


Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/09
Posts: 457

"Evolution thru Revolution"

9/03/12 8:23:41 PM#40

OP, you should try some of the NWN or NWN2 pws. The roleplaying worlds really give that pnp feeling in a 3d environment.

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