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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » With GW2 live is any other game worth a sub?

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105 posts found
  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

9/03/12 12:14:23 PM#21

Really good at medium or big budget sized sandbox  or sandpark game without any CS, rmah or gold selling (like plex'es) and with good support that would ban sellers, bots and fix exploits fast.

For that I would pay sub happily.

  Celeusta

Novice Member

Joined: 4/29/12
Posts: 26

9/03/12 12:22:42 PM#22
I don't have any problem with a sub if I enjoy a game. While I'm having a lot of fun with GW2 now, I will continue to subscribe to and play EVE for the foreseeable future. It's still my favorite MMO all these years later and the depth and scope it offers I haven't found in any other titles. It's a completely different animal than GW2, and I'm glad both games can exist in the market.
  GamerUntouch

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/12
Posts: 491

9/03/12 12:25:50 PM#23
Without GW2 I don't think any game is worth a sub.
  Z3R01

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/08
Posts: 2456

MMO gamer since 1997

9/03/12 12:26:49 PM#24

EVE Online is still worth a subscription.

Only due to being radically different than GW2.

Playing: None

Waiting on: None

  Artean

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/05/04
Posts: 205

9/03/12 12:27:15 PM#25
I'm keeping my TSW sub, no doubt.

.............
When in doubt, troll.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 16937

9/03/12 12:29:02 PM#26

for me "yes".

I believe in paying people who entertain me and I also believe in getting value for my money. If the game I am playing has a sub AND I believe it's of worth to me I'll pay the measley $15 per month.

I mean heck, I pay 11.00 each day for my lunch when I'm at work.

  tyfon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/23/09
Posts: 215

9/03/12 12:29:20 PM#27
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by tyfon

EVE: "Free" expansions. You never pay more than the sub.

Rift: Bi-montly free content updates

TSW: Montly (hopefully) content updates. So far they had to delay one of them due to the restructuring.

 

What do you gain by not having a sub? What parts of the game has improved as a result of not paying a sub?

First they aren't free.

You pay a sub.

Second I've never had any problems with Anet and NCSOFT support.

Third there are sub games that you have "free" content updates every few months (like 9 or so).

Fourth, there is no content lock or forced slow downs.

Fifth to early to say if GW2 doesn't have free content update.

Sixth, money you spend in the game give you something straight away.

 

 

Yes you pay a sub. That's the deal. You said that most of the content is in paied expansions for those games too which is not true.

Just that you never had problems with support, wait until you get a bugged boss mob and can't loot and there is no ingame GM's to help. Others have stated that they have waited over a week to even get a reply from ANet when their account was hacked etc. There are no one to call.

I think you have mistyped something in nr three because I'm not quite sure what you mean :)

There are slow downs. There is a reason why they sell karma/xp/gold boosts in the shop.

Five; I'll give you that time will tell. Somehow I doubt it though since most content comes in 6monthly expansions in gw1 (or used to).

Six: yes, you gain stuff that you already have in the sub games like bigger bag spaces/bank/ability/boosts and keys to open loot.

  Artean

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/05/04
Posts: 205

9/03/12 12:31:43 PM#28
Originally posted by Celeusta
I don't have any problem with a sub if I enjoy a game. While I'm having a lot of fun with GW2 now, I will continue to subscribe to and play EVE for the foreseeable future. It's still my favorite MMO all these years later and the depth and scope it offers I haven't found in any other titles. It's a completely different animal than GW2, and I'm glad both games can exist in the market.

Although it's been several years since I played it, EVE truly is an amazing and one of a kind mmo. 

.............
When in doubt, troll.

  coretex666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1799

"I shall take your position into consideration"

9/03/12 12:37:11 PM#29

Whether or not it is worth a sub has nothing to do with GW for me.

I went with WoW option. It is still the top MMO in the market and probably will be for some time, in my opinion.

Currently playing: L2 Chronicle 4

  Isane

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/06
Posts: 2691

"Some do , Some don''t , Others just cry"

Jean Sali

9/03/12 12:39:45 PM#30
  • TSW while the sub runs down; EvE Forever
  • The so called F2P I spend £20 on World of Tanks a Month.
  • I also donate £5 a month to a couple of MUDs which are fantastic compared to current MMOs and have a far better community. But that is about it..
Incredible value for money for anyone who works....

=============================================

The real question is all about supporting the gaming industry so they continue to develop games. F2P is becoming more prevalent because it makes more than sub based we all love a gimik don't we.,

F2P is a myth and based on how long people stick with games these days Expansions cover the lifetime of a subber, so it aint free and if it is you always get a limited gaming experience.

 

________________________________________________________
SWTOR and COS games that could deliver !!

  Deto123

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/02/08
Posts: 698

9/03/12 12:46:19 PM#31

GW2 feels like a game a sub shouldn t be attached to it. A net saved themselves there, it isn t worth a sub at all. Other games I like, I have no problem paying a sub for.

PS2, Wildstar, NvW, Firefall, Rift x pac, and more, doesn t leave much time for GW2, it will stay on my HD, but rarely played I m sure.

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2541

 
OP  9/03/12 12:46:40 PM#32
Originally posted by tyfon
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by tyfon

EVE: "Free" expansions. You never pay more than the sub.

Rift: Bi-montly free content updates

TSW: Montly (hopefully) content updates. So far they had to delay one of them due to the restructuring.

 

What do you gain by not having a sub? What parts of the game has improved as a result of not paying a sub?

First they aren't free.

You pay a sub.

Second I've never had any problems with Anet and NCSOFT support.

Third there are sub games that you have "free" content updates every few months (like 9 or so).

Fourth, there is no content lock or forced slow downs.

Fifth to early to say if GW2 doesn't have free content update.

Sixth, money you spend in the game give you something straight away.

 

 

Yes you pay a sub. That's the deal. You said that most of the content is in paied expansions for those games too which is not true.

Just that you never had problems with support, wait until you get a bugged boss mob and can't loot and there is no ingame GM's to help. Others have stated that they have waited over a week to even get a reply from ANet when their account was hacked etc. There are no one to call.

I think you have mistyped something in nr three because I'm not quite sure what you mean :)

There are slow downs. There is a reason why they sell karma/xp/gold boosts in the shop.

Five; I'll give you that time will tell. Somehow I doubt it though since most content comes in 6monthly expansions in gw1 (or used to).

Six: yes, you gain stuff that you already have in the sub games like bigger bag spaces/bank/ability/boosts and keys to open loot.

Lets see the most played sub MMO WoW - last content update dragon soul. So, sub fees dont guarantee content update.

Rift releasing storm legion  soon - a paid expansion with more content than the "free updates". EVE Plex system. TSW, just released.

People reached max level in a week - without boosts.

GW1 didn't have an extensive cash shop - the model was slightly different from GW2, an expansion every six months  (never happened). Would still work out cheaper than most sub based MMOs and add much more content if happened like that.

Lets see - GW2 gives up to 100 slots with bags (start with 20). Compared to WoW, seems ok. Stacks generally go up to 250. Shared account storage that has 30 slots plus storage tabs for materials (store 250 each) snd minipets. I wouldn't say GW2 storage is lacking, The keys can drop in game and be rewarded but it is true the chest drop rate is much higher. On the other hand the chest doesn't give that much and one can buy gems with in game currency.

Ah deposit materials from anywhere, send and collect mail from anywhere, Acess the trade post from anywhere (well once it is up and running properly).

I wouldn't call this a poor feature list compared to sub games.

By the way not sure what you mean by "ability".

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  Channce

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/22/04
Posts: 528

9/03/12 12:48:33 PM#33
Im level 25 in GW2, ill play it from time to time, but not giving up my sub to the best MMO ever made...DAoC.

When I said i had "time", i meant virtual time, i got no RL "time" for you.

  User Deleted
9/03/12 12:50:43 PM#34

For me this is how I see sub based games at the moment

Rift -definatly worth a regular  sub  but I probably will give it up untill I'm bored of GW2

Warhammer- very small population and in t2 nd t3 almost dead . Also very rare patches and still buggy

EvE I believe is worth one but not something I could get into .

WoW-so easy now its a cakewalk . I do like playing it while I'm away from home working as I dont have a gaming laptop. and it still plays well on low settings but it is a shadow of what it once was .

Tera -horrible game . Wouldn't play because of those bunny girls .

TSW- too expensive a sub in the UK and EU . A total rip off so I wouldn't play it on principle .

ToR - more like a single player game with multiplayer aspects . should have been buy to play like GW2

Cant think of any other main stream sub based games apart from really old ones like Ultima etc So no to all of them .

Any game in development would be wise to consider buy to play . Otherwise I think they will fail .

 

 

 

  TangentPoint

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1094

The "Real Game" begins at character creation.

9/03/12 12:52:22 PM#35

If the game is enjoyable to me, then yes it's worth a sub.

Though I'm one of the (apparent) few who doesn't see B2P, or F2P as "replacements for sub-fees" but rather alternatives to it.

I also am one of the (apparent) few who realizes that no one revenue model is best for every game.

I also am one of the (apparent) few who would much sooner pay $15 a month to have "all you can eat" access to a game where I know the game is balanced around providing me an (ideally) challenging and enjoyable experience, and not around getting me to pull out the credit card to spend more money in the cash shop.

I prefer knowing that once I've paid my $15, that's it. I'm left alone and real money has no bearing in the game 'til the next month's subscription is due.

I know people will say "but GW2 doesn't want a sub at all!"

No, it doesn't. But it does have a cash shop. And despite "all the items being optional", the fact is, cash shops can and do make far more revenue than a flat sub-fee does. And I'm sure that figured heavily into their going that route rather than the subscription fee route.

What it also does is presents them with a conundrum. See, they've been tooting their own horn quite a bit over time about how they don't need sub fees, challenging other developers to "justify sub fees to their players". Meanwhile, they're creating and implementing a revenue method that can yield them far more than a flat sub fee ever could. This has been proven.

And so it begs the question... If they can maintaint he game on box fees alone, then why are they double-dipping?

F2P MMOs rely on cash shop revenue as their sole source of income. They need it to keep the game going. Subscription based games rely on the monthly sub fee to keep the game running, keep the lights on, etc..

So what's ANet's excuse? Are they lying about box fees being enough? Or are they just being greedy and charging more money for items that could just as well be included with the box fee?

Sub-based MMOs don't have to justify charging a sub. The players know exactly what they're getting for their money.

F2P MMOs don't have to justify cash shops. Players know the score there.

See, I think it's ANet who has to justify their position. If box fees are all they need, then why do they need cash shop sales? Who stands to benefit from it? The player who has to pay extra money to get something they'd like, or ANet who gets extra $$$ for an item that's already in the game and could have been made available through gameplay?

When ANet drops the cash shop and actually walks the walk by proving they can maintain and support GW2 with box fees alone, I'll be interested in their "opinions on subscriptions". 'til then, they're hypocrites and need to just shut up on the subject.

I can hear some people saying, "but there are sub-based games that also have cash shops! What about them?!". I think they're even more lame and don't support them either. I also would remind folks that we're not talkign about "other sub-based MMOs". We're talking about GW2.

My philosophy on MMORPGs:

Leveling is what happens while you're playing the rest of the game.

Don't worry about levels. Just play.

  tyfon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/23/09
Posts: 215

9/03/12 1:00:57 PM#36
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Rift releasing storm legion  soon - a paid expansion with more content than the "free updates". EVE Plex system. TSW, just released.

People reached max level in a week - without boosts.

GW1 didn't have an extensive cash shop - the model was slightly different from GW2, an expansion every six months  (never happened). Would still work out cheaper than most sub based MMOs and add much more content if happened like that.

Lets see - GW2 gives up to 100 slots with bags (start with 20). Compared to WoW, seems ok. Stacks generally go up to 250. Shared account storage that has 30 slots plus storage tabs for materials (store 250 each) snd minipets. I wouldn't say GW2 storage is lacking, The keys can drop in game and be rewarded but it is true the chest drop rate is much higher. On the other hand the chest doesn't give that much and one can buy gems with in game currency.

Ah deposit materials from anywhere, send and collect mail from anywhere, Acess the trade post from anywhere (well once it is up and running properly).

I wouldn't call this a poor feature list compared to sub games.

By the way not sure what you mean by "ability".

Ability was a brain fart, sorry.

EVE Plex system is just subscription you can trade ingame. Infact I support my EVE gaming fully by ingame cash. I really like the system. You either sub of your own money or others and you still get access to the full game if you use plex instead of regular sub to play.

I don't play Rift, but I didn't know they release seperate expansion.

Even if TSW is new it alread has had content patches.

 

So how does the ingame experience improve from not having a sub? You never really answered that question.

  eAzydaman

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/07
Posts: 220

9/03/12 1:04:00 PM#37

Haters gonna hate, but fact is that GW2 has more content than any other MMO have had at launch. Not to mention sPVP and WvWvW which is endless content. I would pay double subs for a game of this quality. All sub games out there ATM is just bland and boring, same old crap without requireing any skill.

The future doesn't look bright either when you look at upcoming games. This is the closest thing to DAOC 2 i'll ever get.

  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2599

9/03/12 1:12:18 PM#38
Originally posted by TangentPoint

If the game is enjoyable to me, then yes it's worth a sub.

Though I'm one of the (apparent) few who doesn't see B2P, or F2P as "replacements for sub-fees" but rather alternatives to it.

I also am one of the (apparent) few who realizes that no one revenue model is best for every game.

I also am one of the (apparent) few who would much sooner pay $15 a month to have "all you can eat" access to a game where I know the game is balanced around providing me an (ideally) challenging and enjoyable experience, and not around getting me to pull out the credit card to spend more money in the cash shop.

I prefer knowing that once I've paid my $15, that's it. I'm left alone and real money has no bearing in the game 'til the next month's subscription is due.

I know people will say "but GW2 doesn't want a sub at all!"

No, it doesn't. But it does have a cash shop. And despite "all the items being optional", the fact is, cash shops can and do make far more revenue than a flat sub-fee does. And I'm sure that figured heavily into their going that route rather than the subscription fee route.

What it also does is presents them with a conundrum. See, they've been tooting their own horn quite a bit over time about how they don't need sub fees, challenging other developers to "justify sub fees to their players". Meanwhile, they're creating and implementing a revenue method that can yield them far more than a flat sub fee ever could. This has been proven.

And so it begs the question... If they can maintaint he game on box fees alone, then why are they double-dipping?

F2P MMOs rely on cash shop revenue as their sole source of income. They need it to keep the game going. Subscription based games rely on the monthly sub fee to keep the game running, keep the lights on, etc..

So what's ANet's excuse? Are they lying about box fees being enough? Or are they just being greedy and charging more money for items that could just as well be included with the box fee?

Sub-based MMOs don't have to justify charging a sub. The players know exactly what they're getting for their money.

F2P MMOs don't have to justify cash shops. Players know the score there.

See, I think it's ANet who has to justify their position. If box fees are all they need, then why do they need cash shop sales? Who stands to benefit from it? The player who has to pay extra money to get something they'd like, or ANet who gets extra $$$ for an item that's already in the game and could have been made available through gameplay?

When ANet drops the cash shop and actually walks the walk by proving they can maintain and support GW2 with box fees alone, I'll be interested in their "opinions on subscriptions". 'til then, they're hypocrites and need to just shut up on the subject.

I can hear some people saying, "but there are sub-based games that also have cash shops! What about them?!". I think they're even more lame and don't support them either. I also would remind folks that we're not talkign about "other sub-based MMOs". We're talking about GW2.

As you said, the cash shop stuff is optional. Nothing in there that you have to have to succeed in the game.

Theres also the fact that the majority of it can be earned in game as drops/rewards, and you can simply exchange in game gold for gems.

This is where 2 different groups of players come in:

1) There is a group that has expendable cash that they are willing to spend on games because either a) they enjoy the game and like to throw money at the game to support it and ensure its continued profit  / existance or b) would rather spend money than extra time to advance in games c) enjoy the cosmetic stuff enough that theyre willing to pay $ for it.

It would be pretty stupid of any company to ignore those players and say "We dont want your money". They are a business after all.

2) Then theres the group that is unwilling / unable to pay extra for anything, wether it be a sub or a cash shop. With a sub game they have no choice. With a B2P / F2P game, they can play free since the extra costs are optional. Even though Anet (or any dev) isnt making direct profit off of this group, if these people werent in game it would be empty and most of group 1 would quickly grow bored and leave because of nobody to play with / against. So even allowing the free players in still generates profit by drawing in the other players.

Basically, they still need some flow of cash, but they can get it by providing these options, rather than the forced sub that other games claim they need to run. WoW is a perfect example. They could drop the sub to $5 a month and still rake in more money than any other MMO, yet theyre still forcing you to pay the full sub from nearly 10 years ago and just milking the customer base because they know people are hooked on it.

  Yaoiman

Novice Member

Joined: 8/16/12
Posts: 55

We will always remember your sacrifice, Louisoux! RIP

9/03/12 1:27:46 PM#39

Yes, the $15 a month is paying for new content, and access to the full game. A sub is basically a guarantee of new content every few months.

 

An in game cash shop can only make money if people are buying, and GW2 has a terrible cash shop. I was planning to spend a ton of cash on it, but then I found out it's a bunch of one use crap and the armor skins (Which I bought all of in GW1 and loved) require you to buy other items from the cash shop to even wear. None of it is worth real money, and I can't imagine anyone with a fully functioning brain would buy anything from it with real money.

A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies, the man who never reads lives only one.

We will always remember your sacrifice, Louisoux!

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2541

 
OP  9/03/12 1:40:52 PM#40
Originally posted by tyfon
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Rift releasing storm legion  soon - a paid expansion with more content than the "free updates". EVE Plex system. TSW, just released.

People reached max level in a week - without boosts.

GW1 didn't have an extensive cash shop - the model was slightly different from GW2, an expansion every six months  (never happened). Would still work out cheaper than most sub based MMOs and add much more content if happened like that.

Lets see - GW2 gives up to 100 slots with bags (start with 20). Compared to WoW, seems ok. Stacks generally go up to 250. Shared account storage that has 30 slots plus storage tabs for materials (store 250 each) snd minipets. I wouldn't say GW2 storage is lacking, The keys can drop in game and be rewarded but it is true the chest drop rate is much higher. On the other hand the chest doesn't give that much and one can buy gems with in game currency.

Ah deposit materials from anywhere, send and collect mail from anywhere, Acess the trade post from anywhere (well once it is up and running properly).

I wouldn't call this a poor feature list compared to sub games.

By the way not sure what you mean by "ability".

Ability was a brain fart, sorry.

EVE Plex system is just subscription you can trade ingame. Infact I support my EVE gaming fully by ingame cash. I really like the system. You either sub of your own money or others and you still get access to the full game if you use plex instead of regular sub to play.

I don't play Rift, but I didn't know they release seperate expansion.

Even if TSW is new it alread has had content patches.

 

So how does the ingame experience improve from not having a sub? You never really answered that question.

GW2 gem<->gold os a similar system to plex.

It doesn't get worse and there are no wasted time travelling and/or locks on content (you know, only once per week on this instance).

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

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