Originally posted by Nikkita

Originally posted by IPolygon
GW2 is a sandbox game alright. It might not be a game where all content comes from players (like EVE), but sandbox only implies a sense of freedom within the realm of a game. GW2 certainly offers enough freedom to be sandbox game.

Not only sense of freedom but also gives you tools to make use of that freedom. like EVE and UO.

I am not even surprised that some of the most hardcore GW2 fans are agreeing with OP, maybe that was his intention.

GW2 gives you the tools to take that freedom within the realm of possibilites. It is designed as a world with NPCs and players in mind. It might not be your EVE or UO in that sense, but these games don't offer interaction with NPCs. I don't know another game where those two worlds (player and npcs) are intertwined so much. Even EVE has boundaries you as a player cannot surpass. In the end, it all comes down to what players actually want. Do you want players to build space stations and forge alliances out of thin air, or do you want players to take and hold, fortify and occupy existing outposts.

I agree with you that, as a whole, GW2 doesn't offer that man tools to the general populace, but what you might find lacking is there in WvW. Design-wise it needs to make sense and design-wise the devs need to make decisions on how they want their game to look like and how they want players to make it their own. I'd like EVE to do the same in a world with gravity and a surface and see how well they do.

Originally posted by Serelisk

Originally posted by k-damage

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by k-damage

Ok, then let's take the most official definition then : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandbox_game (which I already linked 3 pages ago, if people were reading each other's posts before arguing ...)

Where do you see that it has to include construction tools ?

Anyway this is kind of a sterile debate, as with any debate trying to redefine a word. So to each other's his own vision of his most 100% sandbox game. What's baffling me is just how people are hardcore at defending a non-definition.

Why do you believe this is the most official definition? It is merely one person's definition, if few people agree with it than I suppose it's not very official.

Sandbox style games are something you just feel, I've played so many titles, EVE is definitely heavy on the sandbox side.

Haven't played GW2 yet, so can't say, maybe it is. 

But I'm guessing it favors the theme park style just a bit more.

Because for such a hot topic as Sandbox games, Wiki's page must have been checked, checked again, and re-re-re-re-checked again by tons of mmo gamers, and very likely by professional gamedesigners ;)

And in general, Wikipedia is a good reference.

And in that definition, it specifically states that sandbox is only "used" to describe an open world game among other terms such as non linear, but when they specifically go to define the meaning of a true sandbox games, they specifically state:

"A true "sandbox" is where the player has tools to modify the world themselves and create how they play."

If you actually follow that link, it will take you to a page about non linear game design, and again mentions sandbox modes as a stem of this.

"In a game with a sandbox mode, a player may turn off or ignore game objectives, or have unlimited access to items. This can open up possibilities that were not intended by the game designer. A sandbox mode is an option in otherwise goal-oriented games and should be distinguished from open ended games with no objectives such as SimCity. It has a variety of different uses, the main being the sandbox gamemode, allowing you to do whatever you want with everydya normal items, or just have a firefight with your friends. The game is highly mod-able too."

Not all non linear games cane be classified as sandboxes because that term was not created to specifically refer to open world games. 

By that definiton not even EVE is a true sandbox game. The only true sandbox game here is Garry's Mod.

GW2 is a lineal, casual and shallow themepark

It's just as themepark as SWTOR

You go from zone A to zone B

I can explore in WOW, in can do quests in different orders in SWTOR, GW2 is just a casual themepark.

Players can't interact with the word in any way, and no, sorry, finishing a scripted and linear event that will recycle in 10 minutes doesn't count.

Calling this game a sandbox just shows you how much blind and delusional some fans of the game are.

Don't hate the word, don't fear the word

THEMEPARK

The people who actually believe that GW2 is somewhere "in the middle" are even worse, because it sounds like they are serious, lol.

WOW is a hybrid, im level 30 and i have like 6 different zones to explore, quests, grind mobs and PVP, it's an open world with tons of stuff to do!

AoC is a hybrid, i can choose to play on PVE or PVP servers

SWTOR, on the other hand, is a 100% sandbox MMO, i can chose my race, hairstyle, eyes colour, class.

I can also choose what to say to the NPCs.

See how calling a game hybrid or a sandbox just because it's "open" when every themepark is open, or having "choices" when every themepark has choices, makes you look foolish?

GW2 has the same degree of fredoom that WOW has, in WOW i can explore, just like in GW2, and i don't have to follow a lineal questing, there are always NPCs with quests all over the area.

Originally posted by kol56

GW2 is a lineal, casual and shallow themepark

It's just as themepark as SWTOR

 

You go from zone A to zone B

I can explore in WOW, in can do quests in different orders in SWTOR, GW2 is just a casual themepark.

Players can't interact with the word in any way, and no, sorry, finishing a scripted and linear event that will recycle in 10 minutes doesn't count.

 

Calling this game a sandbox just shows you how much blind and delusional some fans of the game are.

 

Don't hate the word, don't fear the word

THEMEPARK

 

The people who actually believe that GW2 is somewhere "in the middle" are even worse, because it sounds like they are serious, lol.

That made me lmao.

Originally posted by kol56

GW2 is a lineal, casual and shallow themepark

It's just as themepark as SWTOR

 

You go from zone A to zone B

I can explore in WOW, in can do quests in different orders in SWTOR, GW2 is just a casual themepark.

Players can't interact with the word in any way, and no, sorry, finishing a scripted and linear event that will recycle in 10 minutes doesn't count.

 

Calling this game a sandbox just shows you how much blind and delusional some fans of the game are.

 

Don't hate the word, don't fear the word

THEMEPARK

 

The people who actually believe that GW2 is somewhere "in the middle" are even worse, because it sounds like they are serious, lol.

You can, but you don't have to travel. You may travel in EVE from point A to point B as much or often as you can in GW2. Thanks to downleveling you can go from level 2 to 80 in a single zone. Most things in games are scripted, systems are scripted, levels are scripted, even sandbox games are scripted. Scripted just means you call routines of the game engine from a easily understandable programming language in real-time. That paragraph is worthless anyway as it shows how much or how little you know about GW2.

There are boundaries, but there are also boundaries in EVE. You need boundaries to achieve some sort of progression system. You cannot instantly buy the best ship with the best equipment in EVE either or travel from point A to B (wherein B is anywhere in the game world) within seconds. EVE is a good example or the best example of player driven-content, but if you take a distant look at it, it is a player created themepark. You cannot mod EVE, so don't call it a sandbox. Don't be delusional about games.

You might argue GW2 to be linear or not, that's is not the point, it is one of the most dynamic games out there - and that is its strength.

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Originally posted by RebelScum99

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Originally posted by Syno23 I hate themepark games where you go to one area get the quests and do them and move onto the next area. In GW2 you can explore every inch of every area. Don't have to do the story quest right away. Different areas to explore like all the starting areas for each race PLUS other areas. I don't feel like I'm in a linear game. But a nice relaxing sandbox style.

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First of all, you're trying too hard.  Not every thought that comes into your head needs to be a new thread.  Take it down a notch. Second of all, you obviously have no idea what the word "sandbox" means.  

---

QFT

my definition of sandbox is the ability to permanently change the world in some way. For instance by building a castle where there was none before. Therefore GW2 is not a sandbox by my definition.

I prefer to use the term worlds though, because a world can contain both sandbox and themepark elements, both of which have their place in a mmorpg. 

lets get back to building worlds.

Originally posted by IPolygon

Originally posted by kol56

GW2 is a lineal, casual and shallow themepark

It's just as themepark as SWTOR

 

You go from zone A to zone B

I can explore in WOW, in can do quests in different orders in SWTOR, GW2 is just a casual themepark.

Players can't interact with the word in any way, and no, sorry, finishing a scripted and linear event that will recycle in 10 minutes doesn't count.

 

Calling this game a sandbox just shows you how much blind and delusional some fans of the game are.

 

Don't hate the word, don't fear the word

THEMEPARK

 

The people who actually believe that GW2 is somewhere "in the middle" are even worse, because it sounds like they are serious, lol.

You can, but you don't have to travel. You may travel in EVE from point A to point B as much or often as you can in GW2. Thanks to downleveling you can go from level 2 to 80 in a single zone. Most things in games are scripted, systems are scripted, levels are scripted, even sandbox games are scripted. Scripted just means you call routines of the game engine from a easily understandable programming language in real-time. That paragraph is worthless anyway as it shows how much or how little you know about GW2.

There are boundaries, but there are also boundaries in EVE. You need boundaries to achieve some sort of progression system. You cannot instantly buy the best ship with the best equipment in EVE either or travel from point A to B (wherein B is anywhere in the game world) within seconds. EVE is a good example or the best example of player driven-content, but if you take a distant look at it, it is a player created themepark. You cannot mod EVE, so don't call it a sandbox. Don't be delusional about games.

You might argue GW2 to be linear or not, that's is not the point, it is one of the most dynamic games out there - and that is its strength.

It's ok man, you can like a themepark,there is nothing wrong about it.

If you are gonna use some weird definition of what sandbox really is, don't be surprised when nobody understands you.

"There are boudnaries, but there are also boundaries in EVE" um.... you could say the same about WOW

EVE is a player created themepark? what?

GW2 isn't more dynamic than a real sandbox MMOs, where the players dictates what happens, THAT'S dynamic, kill 10 rats quests that recycle every 10 minutes isn't what i call.... dynamic

EQ, Lineage 1, Lineage 2, DAoC, Vanguard, those are all games with more tools for player made content and more freedom than 5 GW2s put together.

And they aren't sandboxes.

No... sorry, sandbox games aren't scripted, sandbox games gives you the tools to make your own content, GW2 has no tools, you just enjoy the rides, that's it.

Originally posted by Syno23
I hate themepark games where you go to one area get the quests and do them and move onto the next area. In GW2 you can explore every inch of every area. Don't have to do the story quest right away. Different areas to explore like all the starting areas for each race PLUS other areas. I don't feel like I'm in a linear game. But a nice relaxing sandbox style.

No, GW2 is an exploration game like Asherons call. It isnt really a sandbox since you dont create your own content.

But exploration is fun, and I for one love the tombraider puzzles they put in hard to find places. :)

Originally posted by kol56

Originally posted by IPolygon

Originally posted by kol56

GW2 is a lineal, casual and shallow themepark

It's just as themepark as SWTOR

 

You go from zone A to zone B

I can explore in WOW, in can do quests in different orders in SWTOR, GW2 is just a casual themepark.

Players can't interact with the word in any way, and no, sorry, finishing a scripted and linear event that will recycle in 10 minutes doesn't count.

 

Calling this game a sandbox just shows you how much blind and delusional some fans of the game are.

 

Don't hate the word, don't fear the word

THEMEPARK

 

The people who actually believe that GW2 is somewhere "in the middle" are even worse, because it sounds like they are serious, lol.

You can, but you don't have to travel. You may travel in EVE from point A to point B as much or often as you can in GW2. Thanks to downleveling you can go from level 2 to 80 in a single zone. Most things in games are scripted, systems are scripted, levels are scripted, even sandbox games are scripted. Scripted just means you call routines of the game engine from a easily understandable programming language in real-time. That paragraph is worthless anyway as it shows how much or how little you know about GW2.

There are boundaries, but there are also boundaries in EVE. You need boundaries to achieve some sort of progression system. You cannot instantly buy the best ship with the best equipment in EVE either or travel from point A to B (wherein B is anywhere in the game world) within seconds. EVE is a good example or the best example of player driven-content, but if you take a distant look at it, it is a player created themepark. You cannot mod EVE, so don't call it a sandbox. Don't be delusional about games.

You might argue GW2 to be linear or not, that's is not the point, it is one of the most dynamic games out there - and that is its strength.

It's ok man, you can like a themepark,there is nothing wrong about it.

If you are gonna use some weird definition of what sandbox really is, don't be surprised when nobody understands you.

"There are boudnaries, but there are also boundaries in EVE" um.... you could say the same about WOW

EVE is a player created themepark? what?

 

GW2 isn't more dynamic than a real sandbox MMOs, where the players dictates what happens, THAT'S dynamic, kill 10 rats quests that recycle every 10 minutes isn't what i call.... dynamic

 

EQ, Lineage 1, Lineage 2, DAoC, Vanguard, those are all games with more tools for player made content and more freedom than 5 GW2s put together.

And they aren't sandboxes.

No... sorry, sandbox games aren't scripted, sandbox games gives you the tools to make your own content, GW2 has no tools, you just enjoy the rides, that's it.

GW2 definitely isn't a sandbox, but it's not a shallow themepark. A shallow themepark is the kind where your interactions with the "rides" doesn't affect the state of the park. While there are DEs in GW2 that reoccurs unrealistically (i.e. supposedly killed boss doesn't stay killed in the world), there are also DEs that are permanent unless interacted by the player (i.e. forts built by centaurs, nightmare court, etc.). There's also branching DEs. They're a new kind of rides; ones that the player can change the course of.

Originally posted by Syno23
I hate themepark games where you go to one area get the quests and do them and move onto the next area. In GW2 you can explore every inch of every area. Don't have to do the story quest right away. Different areas to explore like all the starting areas for each race PLUS other areas. I don't feel like I'm in a linear game. But a nice relaxing sandbox style.

sandbox style...sure...

oh what do you know, gw2 is even a sandbox game ... amazing

... in the name of Balthazar ....ameeeeeen

You wanna hear a joke?

Q: What does sandbox and guildwars 2 have in common?

A: Sand in your eyes!

lol I know the joke is a failure, just like is labeling GW2 anywhere near the words sand box.

Originally posted by tom_gore

You have no idea what a sandbox MMO is, do you?

 

This.

or trolling.

Seriously what's with those 'gw2 is sandbox(y)' or 'tsw is sandbox(y)' trolling?

Both of those games are 100% themepaks.

anyway 3 / 10 - just because how many replies It got. But overally weak.