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News & Features Discussion  » [Editorial] The Secret World: Musing on Funcom

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155 posts found
  doho7744

Novice Member

Joined: 12/22/06
Posts: 34

9/02/12 7:57:42 PM#141
Originally posted by Rasputin

A good game will always come out on top. Word of mouth will spread, friends will pull in friends and the game will slowly grow, even if it is not on the big radar.

You can put the blame wherever you want, and it will be false - if the game had been better, it would be reflected in its success.

 

I have not personally played TSW, and I would not even be attracted to it: Not another levelbased tab-target, holy-trinity quest-grinder, linear without freedom, and without a challenge. I cannot remember the last time I was seriously challenged in a WoW-clone, and I cannot imagine that I would be in TSW either.

Innovation is the name of the game, and TSW did not innovate enough.

That sure applies to Eve, oh wait noes it don't.  It has problems for several reasons.

!.  Until recently when it went on Steam it had no major retail avenue for purchase.  Not everybody likes Walmart but it    sure  feels like they all shop there and you can't get a box copy of this off the shelf.

2. In the same vein Marketing was absolute ass for it.  They had a couple pages in pcgamer and that was pretty much it.

3. Box price was high, monthly charge was high (both especially in Europe) and they had the frills store.  This turned some   people off.  Funcome is seen as a European company and in Europe this game is the most expensive. 

4. Some folks still felt burned for past games, I don't know if its that big a deal but it did not help.

If they decide to go f2p along the same style as Turbine has they could quite probably turn it around.  The game is a definite breath of fresh air and runs fine.  There are a few bugs but nothing like their two previous mmo's and not near as bad as GW2 or some of the other recent releases.

 

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10375

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

9/02/12 8:34:11 PM#142

I got to fill out a questionnaire from Funcom recently on how they could improve the game. My suggestions were to add more open world style content someplace, nix the sub and to offer personal servers. I think my biggest issue with the game the quest hub style game progression and feeling like I had to play because of a sub. I do not think any of my suggestions will make it to the game, but I did at least tell Funcom directly, instead of just posting to an internet message board.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10375

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

9/02/12 8:40:22 PM#143


Originally posted by FURYBlakhart
I predicted that this game would start declining fairly soon about 6 months before it released.  I also predicted it would never generate what Funcom hoped it would, that they would have layoffs and have to scale back staffing and production and that the game would never live up to its potential or hype.

<snipped a lot of stuff here>




These predictions would actually matter if it wasn't the same thing for pretty much every game that gets released. The list of reasons changes, but it's always the same. People are starting with the game is going to fail, then looking for reasons. Being right about it is only accidental.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  centkin

Elite Member

Joined: 10/01/10
Posts: 764

9/02/12 8:57:14 PM#144

TSW has everything that Tera does not, and Tera has everything that TSW does not.

If you combined the strengths of Tera and TSW you would have a game that would sell many millions.  As it stands though -- both games are in the death spiral because they are in a lot of ways half-games.  They needed each other badly.

  Kraylor

Novice Member

Joined: 2/05/12
Posts: 95

9/02/12 9:03:46 PM#145
The game is good as far as themeparks go.  Unfortunately for me, I am an old school sandbox gamer and although TSW has sandboxy skill progression, everything else is themepark. 

Waiting on: The Repopulation

  Hrimnir

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1066

9/02/12 10:28:18 PM#146
Originally posted by Rasputin

A good game will always come out on top. Word of mouth will spread, friends will pull in friends and the game will slowly grow, even if it is not on the big radar.

You can put the blame wherever you want, and it will be false - if the game had been better, it would be reflected in its success.

 

I have not personally played TSW, and I would not even be attracted to it: Not another levelbased tab-target, holy-trinity quest-grinder, linear without freedom, and without a challenge. I cannot remember the last time I was seriously challenged in a WoW-clone, and I cannot imagine that I would be in TSW either.

Innovation is the name of the game, and TSW did not innovate enough.

This argument has been proven invalid so many times its not even funny.  Sales of a product do not, DO NOT equate to the quality of said product.

I'm going to give you a great example.  If you look at A Game of Thrones and the whole Song of Ice and Fire, it is SUPER MEGA popular right now.

Now, GRRM Wrote the first book for that series and published it in 1996, it was well received by critics, winning a locus award, and nominated for a nebula award in 1997.  Despite the publisher being almost certain it would be a best seller, it didnt even reach the bottom of any best seller lists.  Now, fast forward to 1999 and 2000, and because of simply word of mouth and support from independent book sellers, the second and third books became NY Times Best Sellers.  This caused renewed interest in the first book and GRRM's american publisher republished the then out of print first book.   Now, fast forward to today and due to the popularity of the series and the show, the first book has sold something on the order of 15 million copies.

On the flip side of that coin, i give you examples of things like Justin Bieber, or Britney Spears.  Any time they release a record, it sells like hot cakes.  Does that mean its quality music? no.  It just means its popular.  It sells well for different reasons.

The MMO market is much more volatile than people realize and there are a lot of differing human psychological issues that manifest themselves in a very different way in this market than in the standard entertainment industry.

Thats one of the main reasons so many MMOs were WOW clones.  The people who control the funding of the MMO's were only concerned about a return on their investment, and how you pretty much guarantee returns in the rest of the entertainment industry is through following a certain format, be it music, movies, call of duty, etc.

"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

- Friedrich Nietzsche

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1155

9/03/12 5:24:11 PM#147

The subscription model isn't "dead" but the "monthly sub" may well be.

TSW may have been better offering 3 month subs for $15 say,  no cash shop and, maybe, content packs @ $10. And maybe a combo offering a content pack and 3 months for $20.

A subscription level which people are happy with even if they only play every now and then.

That is the attraction of GW1/GW2. The monthy sub - zero - means you are happy to buy the box, play for a while, leave it, go back, leave it ...

CoD is another example with an annual sub. People need to feel that what they are paying for is worthwhile.

  Hyperion5182

Novice Member

Joined: 9/16/08
Posts: 67

9/03/12 7:47:07 PM#148

It seems i was right on FC. I made comments that were flagged before and i got a small penalty before but the fact of the matter is this.

 

EA's involved. (They really messed up ME3's finale they blew apart Warhammer online and have a bad proven reputation on game development)

 

Funcom: This company has internal issues like few understand. MMO wise they made the massive mistake of recycling staff that should have been flat out fired. That killed a HUGE amount of AOC's momentum when AO players realized who was leading that game. It didnt help their endgame for something that was so hyped was nonexistant at the time. Those two factors helped put AOC on life support. Their mechanical issues have never been addressed. Despite NDA's the stories on their internal and staffing issues have been out there if you know where to look.

 

And you're pairing the two together for an MMO? to hell with that.

  Rasputin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/07/03
Posts: 618

9/04/12 5:47:52 AM#149
Originally posted by Hrimnir
Originally posted by Rasputin

A good game will always come out on top. Word of mouth will spread, friends will pull in friends and the game will slowly grow, even if it is not on the big radar.

You can put the blame wherever you want, and it will be false - if the game had been better, it would be reflected in its success.

 

I have not personally played TSW, and I would not even be attracted to it: Not another levelbased tab-target, holy-trinity quest-grinder, linear without freedom, and without a challenge. I cannot remember the last time I was seriously challenged in a WoW-clone, and I cannot imagine that I would be in TSW either.

Innovation is the name of the game, and TSW did not innovate enough.

This argument has been proven invalid so many times its not even funny.  Sales of a product do not, DO NOT equate to the quality of said product.

I'm going to give you a great example.  If you look at A Game of Thrones and the whole Song of Ice and Fire, it is SUPER MEGA popular right now.

Now, GRRM Wrote the first book for that series and published it in 1996, it was well received by critics, winning a locus award, and nominated for a nebula award in 1997.  Despite the publisher being almost certain it would be a best seller, it didnt even reach the bottom of any best seller lists.  Now, fast forward to 1999 and 2000, and because of simply word of mouth and support from independent book sellers, the second and third books became NY Times Best Sellers.  This caused renewed interest in the first book and GRRM's american publisher republished the then out of print first book.   Now, fast forward to today and due to the popularity of the series and the show, the first book has sold something on the order of 15 million copies.

On the flip side of that coin, i give you examples of things like Justin Bieber, or Britney Spears.  Any time they release a record, it sells like hot cakes.  Does that mean its quality music? no.  It just means its popular.  It sells well for different reasons.

The MMO market is much more volatile than people realize and there are a lot of differing human psychological issues that manifest themselves in a very different way in this market than in the standard entertainment industry.

Thats one of the main reasons so many MMOs were WOW clones.  The people who control the funding of the MMO's were only concerned about a return on their investment, and how you pretty much guarantee returns in the rest of the entertainment industry is through following a certain format, be it music, movies, call of duty, etc.

Game of Thrones did increase in popularity over time, did it not? It did not go the other way.

That is the point that I wanted to make: If TSW had been good, it would not already now have been on the downward slope that it is, a slope recognized with all declining themepark MMOs (which all seem to decline after the initial 'explosion', with WoW as the only exception).

On top of that, games are not books. Not at all.

EVE is the best example: It started very slow and under the radar, and look where it is now. If TSW had been good, it could have done exactly the same, as it had more advertising and more players to begin with. It had alot better starting point than EVE had. EVE is also a non-fantasy theme, so also here they ae quite comparable.

And look where TSW is. There must obviously be an issue with quality, whether that be the quality of the game or longevity of the gameplay.

  grapevine

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/17/04
Posts: 1921

9/04/12 5:53:15 AM#150
Originally posted by Rasputin
Originally posted by Hrimnir
Originally posted by Rasputin

A good game will always come out on top. Word of mouth will spread, friends will pull in friends and the game will slowly grow, even if it is not on the big radar.

You can put the blame wherever you want, and it will be false - if the game had been better, it would be reflected in its success.

 

I have not personally played TSW, and I would not even be attracted to it: Not another levelbased tab-target, holy-trinity quest-grinder, linear without freedom, and without a challenge. I cannot remember the last time I was seriously challenged in a WoW-clone, and I cannot imagine that I would be in TSW either.

Innovation is the name of the game, and TSW did not innovate enough.

This argument has been proven invalid so many times its not even funny.  Sales of a product do not, DO NOT equate to the quality of said product.

I'm going to give you a great example.  If you look at A Game of Thrones and the whole Song of Ice and Fire, it is SUPER MEGA popular right now.

Now, GRRM Wrote the first book for that series and published it in 1996, it was well received by critics, winning a locus award, and nominated for a nebula award in 1997.  Despite the publisher being almost certain it would be a best seller, it didnt even reach the bottom of any best seller lists.  Now, fast forward to 1999 and 2000, and because of simply word of mouth and support from independent book sellers, the second and third books became NY Times Best Sellers.  This caused renewed interest in the first book and GRRM's american publisher republished the then out of print first book.   Now, fast forward to today and due to the popularity of the series and the show, the first book has sold something on the order of 15 million copies.

On the flip side of that coin, i give you examples of things like Justin Bieber, or Britney Spears.  Any time they release a record, it sells like hot cakes.  Does that mean its quality music? no.  It just means its popular.  It sells well for different reasons.

The MMO market is much more volatile than people realize and there are a lot of differing human psychological issues that manifest themselves in a very different way in this market than in the standard entertainment industry.

Thats one of the main reasons so many MMOs were WOW clones.  The people who control the funding of the MMO's were only concerned about a return on their investment, and how you pretty much guarantee returns in the rest of the entertainment industry is through following a certain format, be it music, movies, call of duty, etc.

Game of Thrones did increase in popularity over time, did it not? It did not go the other way.

That is the point that I wanted to make: If TSW had been good, it would not already now have been on the downward slope that it is, a slope recognized with all declining themepark MMOs (which all seem to decline after the initial 'explosion', with WoW as the only exception).

On top of that, games are not books. Not at all.

EVE is the best example: It started very slow and under the radar, and look where it is now. If TSW had been good, it could have done exactly the same, as it had more advertising and more players to begin with. It had alot better starting point than EVE had. EVE is also a non-fantasy theme, so also here they ae quite comparable.

And look where TSW is. There must obviously be an issue with quality, whether that be the quality of the game or longevity of the gameplay.

 

If I recall EVE took a nose drive following launch, down to something like 35,000 players.  Which is far worse than TSW levels.  Even now it's not a major player, and has taken it many years to break 300,000.

 

As for quality, you are incorrect.  It's simply boxes haven't shifted, just like the initial problem with EVE was.

  Theocritus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3603

9/04/12 8:00:52 AM#151
     I think of all MMOs, EVE is the most surprising to me......I didnt think anyone would want to play a game where you are a spaceship with full loot PVP....That being said, I just dont think TSW compares....WHile TSW is a unique niche game, it still tries to offer itself as a themepark which limits alot of things about it.
  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1155

9/04/12 9:55:26 AM#152
Originally posted by Rasputin

snip

Game of Thrones did increase in popularity over time, did it not? It did not go the other way.

That is the point that I wanted to make: If TSW had been good, it would not already now have been on the downward slope that it is, a slope recognized with all declining themepark MMOs (which all seem to decline after the initial 'explosion', with WoW as the only exception).

On top of that, games are not books. Not at all.

EVE is the best example: It started very slow and under the radar, and look where it is now. If TSW had been good, it could have done exactly the same, as it had more advertising and more players to begin with. It had alot better starting point than EVE had. EVE is also a non-fantasy theme, so also here they ae quite comparable.

And look where TSW is. There must obviously be an issue with quality, whether that be the quality of the game or longevity of the gameplay.

As you said you haven't played the game so cannot comment on quality etc. Not that I disagree about your comment on quality - although it is more complex than that being tied to marketing theory and practice. A quality product alone is not enough to sell. Marketing can overcome some of the short comings of a bad product but eventually it will be found out and will damage the reputation of those who produced it.

It is way to early to say that if TSW had been a quality priduct it would have crashed and burned and then recovered. There simply hasn't been time. Maybe in two years but after a couple of months - no.

  GrumpyMel2

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1789

9/04/12 11:28:41 AM#153
Originally posted by ShakyMo
I'm currently playing gw2.
I was playing tsw

The combat is VERY simmilar. Where gw2 wins out for me is at the higher level as WvW is much more strategic in its rules than fusang, and grind to win is minimal (tsw ain't as bad as wow with grind to win, but its closer to wow than gw2 pvp wise)

Once you play past the first couple of hours tsw combat is different to your wow clones. You have to watch mobs for tells and dodge or interupt (just like gw2). You have to avoid getting interupted youtself, you have to change your build depending on what you are fighting, you have to avoid getting penned in by mob packs (collision detection) etc...

It's not play one handed spamming macros while watching tv combat

This is actualy part of the problem for me. Combat in a game where your character is equiped with an M-16 or MP5-SD should functionaly play extremely different from games where your character is equiped with sword and bow. The fact that you can like'n the combat to GW2 is a large part of the games turn-off for me.  GW2's combat fits the genre/meme it's set in, TSW's doesn't. YMMV.

  Astropuyo

Novice Member

Joined: 1/30/07
Posts: 1813

I lose more stars than a hollywood speedball convention.

9/04/12 12:07:26 PM#154

He is rather spot on.

 

Though really it is a "have to play it further" to understand type of game.

 

Ok guys, breaking it down here as I play games to have fun.

 

I love my old school mmo's, (UO,Meridian) but I also am a huge fan of the Wow formula (whatever you may say it has entertainment value).

I still like my TOR, I like my GW2, and I really like my TSW.

 

TSW: Hub based it's not, actually this game has you flying back and forth. The world is larger than it looks, sub regions, building you can actually enter and investigate (Not all mind you) and the modern trapped feeling..In every map.

The station,etc are to build the feeling you have surivors stuck in this town, they aren't leaving and there is nothing you can do to shake them, they've seen worse (If you play the area you'll see this isn't the least of their woes..but that requires globe hopping...see?)

The "hubs" if you can call them that have dynamic invasions that while have no impact tend to make the area feel alive.

You have to be a horror fan to get the refrences,etc. If you realize that Kingsmouth is themed after some chtonic stuff? It makes even more sense (For those of us who are fans of H.P Lovecraft).

 

Animations: God yes they get wonky but there are 300+ animations in the game and on a quick que hot bar, you spam your buttons it's going to get jerky. This is basically to keep combat fast and fluid, I'd sooner have spastic looking that hit.....wait...hit...wait.

Especially when I am dealing with 500 shamblers rushing down a mine shaft knowing full well my only means of survival is simply to run.

 

Now that's mentioned Blue Mountains, if half the reviewers even saw that area they'd of gone "Well nevermind the hub angle". You see you folks are seeing TSW as Wow and not as TSW.

TSW is trying it's own thing while keeping  a fast formula. It's clearly not working for some, but for people like me? I'll spend about 7 minutes of my time to comment and while waste the majority of my time..hopefully reasonably explain what most fanboys want to say.

 

Most of what I read I have seen "levels" so that made me roll my eyes.

Guys you can max your skill wheel out. There are no levels. You get to toss in passives from a deck and active and see if they work well.

 

You can be a gunslinging samurai, a pirate fireball tossing excorcist....It's like the PS3 commercials "you can do anything".

 

If you hear anything about a the big 3 in this game then you should instantly re-read that person's post and be a huge skeptic because let me tell you this. You cannot specialize. You have to do damage to heal. Nothing is as it seems..just like the game.

astropuyo Xfire Miniprofile
  Rawiz

Novice Member

Joined: 9/19/08
Posts: 472

9/04/12 2:07:17 PM#155
Originally posted by Rasputin
Originally posted by Hrimnir
Originally posted by Rasputin

A good game will always come out on top. Word of mouth will spread, friends will pull in friends and the game will slowly grow, even if it is not on the big radar.

You can put the blame wherever you want, and it will be false - if the game had been better, it would be reflected in its success.

 

I have not personally played TSW, and I would not even be attracted to it: Not another levelbased tab-target, holy-trinity quest-grinder, linear without freedom, and without a challenge. I cannot remember the last time I was seriously challenged in a WoW-clone, and I cannot imagine that I would be in TSW either.

Innovation is the name of the game, and TSW did not innovate enough.

This argument has been proven invalid so many times its not even funny.  Sales of a product do not, DO NOT equate to the quality of said product.

I'm going to give you a great example.  If you look at A Game of Thrones and the whole Song of Ice and Fire, it is SUPER MEGA popular right now.

Now, GRRM Wrote the first book for that series and published it in 1996, it was well received by critics, winning a locus award, and nominated for a nebula award in 1997.  Despite the publisher being almost certain it would be a best seller, it didnt even reach the bottom of any best seller lists.  Now, fast forward to 1999 and 2000, and because of simply word of mouth and support from independent book sellers, the second and third books became NY Times Best Sellers.  This caused renewed interest in the first book and GRRM's american publisher republished the then out of print first book.   Now, fast forward to today and due to the popularity of the series and the show, the first book has sold something on the order of 15 million copies.

On the flip side of that coin, i give you examples of things like Justin Bieber, or Britney Spears.  Any time they release a record, it sells like hot cakes.  Does that mean its quality music? no.  It just means its popular.  It sells well for different reasons.

The MMO market is much more volatile than people realize and there are a lot of differing human psychological issues that manifest themselves in a very different way in this market than in the standard entertainment industry.

Thats one of the main reasons so many MMOs were WOW clones.  The people who control the funding of the MMO's were only concerned about a return on their investment, and how you pretty much guarantee returns in the rest of the entertainment industry is through following a certain format, be it music, movies, call of duty, etc.

Game of Thrones did increase in popularity over time, did it not? It did not go the other way.

That is the point that I wanted to make: If TSW had been good, it would not already now have been on the downward slope that it is, a slope recognized with all declining themepark MMOs (which all seem to decline after the initial 'explosion', with WoW as the only exception).

On top of that, games are not books. Not at all.

EVE is the best example: It started very slow and under the radar, and look where it is now. If TSW had been good, it could have done exactly the same, as it had more advertising and more players to begin with. It had alot better starting point than EVE had. EVE is also a non-fantasy theme, so also here they ae quite comparable.

And look where TSW is. There must obviously be an issue with quality, whether that be the quality of the game or longevity of the gameplay.

This is very true to a mod like DayZ as well. A simple mod for ancient Arma 2 has sold ~5 times more games than TSW. Word of mouth, appreciate it or fall. That's just how it is now. Also Arma 2 didn't have a ridiculous payment model for such an unpopular company. FC tried to be Blizzard, they aren't nor will they never have such a following, trying to triple dip = fail from the beginning. Now they're reaping for their past failures, which makes me so pleased.

Word of mouth on Funcom.... Without using bannable comments, I'll just say MMO community as a whole, do not like them and will be cautious dealing with them.

Personally I'm proud of turning 4 guildies away from buying TSW. However 2 guildies bought it, gone already due to lack of content.

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