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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » What if GW2 isn't a huge success?

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61 posts found
  Eir_S

Elite Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4526

GW2 socialist.

8/31/12 8:05:47 AM#41
Originally posted by Foncl
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by Foncl
Originally posted by Eir_S
GW2 is not a PvP-focused game.  I'm not even level 40 yet and I've leveled there by doing PVE 95% of the time.  And on top of that, it's GOOD PVE.  The game is actually very balanced.

For me GW2 would be a PvP focused game if I would play it long-term. I'm competitive when I play and I like min-maxing, optimizing my character, GW2's PvE doesn't offer anything that would keep me interested long-term. The PvP looks good and from my perspective it's definitely the main focus of the game.

Your perspective is irrelevant in this case.  You stated that it was a PvP-focused game, then changed it to "from my perspective".  What the devs had in mind is much more relevant, and they had equal PvE and PvP in mind.  It destroys your initial point.  Game devs won't be swayed from making this kind of game if GW2 were to fail, which is impossible since it's already a success.  I recommend keeping in mind that at least GW2 is pushing the genre forward in allowing people to enjoy a game without stupid restrictions (except the current launch bugs).

What the players feel is the main focus of the game is much more relevant than what the devs had in mind. Do you agree with everything you are told?

What "players"?  It's just you in this conversation!  Can't you stand on your own two legs?  Is there some overwhelming consensus that GW2 is a PvP-focused game that I don't know about?  Are there pie charts?  Graphs??  I love graphs.

Do you make up everything you post?

Note: "From my perspective" does not equal a statistic. lol

  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2445

8/31/12 8:29:00 AM#42
Originally posted by arkoh
Originally posted by SuprGamerX

 Why on earth is GW2 considered the mesiah of the  MMO industry?  Seriously it's getting annoying , just the fact that it got a NCSOFT logo slapped somewhere on it's cover box just down graded the game by a few dozen of points.  Eveyrone I know that pre ordered GW2 and played it , returned to either Aion or Tera and a few to Rift.    Again , GW1 was AMAZING back then , times have changed , and they could of done alot more with GW2 , and I really do hope for Anet's sake that they have alot in store that they haven't talked about yet. 

 ArcheAge will change the face of the MMO world in the fantasy departement , but unfortunately we won't be seeing it by 2014.

If ArchAge will change the face of mmo then all i have to say is Console and SP games FTW 

Archage is a Korean MMO and so far NONE of them have been evolutionary or revolutionary.

 

I am taking a wait and see attitude with a grain of salt the size of the Empire State Building. The reason being - people are hyping things about Archage based on what they see not what is actually in the game. If Archage gets the hype like TOR, TSW, and Tera and it is a flop - well we have only ourselves to blame for the hype and the game developer for prodcuing mediocre games.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  Mothanos

Elite Member

Joined: 10/20/10
Posts: 1551

8/31/12 8:32:22 AM#43

latest news is that GW2 is already a huge succes, servers are full. box sales are stopped.

in my opinion that means they surpassed their sales target and are now checking for more servers to expand their population.

So the question is how many box sales they wanted to sell within a week and how many more want to buy GW2 ?

Also 1st revieuw shows a 9.4 - this game is rocking so hard now that they cant keep up :P

http://speedtest.net/result/2112016336.png

  Foncl

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/14/11
Posts: 186

8/31/12 8:41:05 AM#44
What "players"?  It's just you in this conversation!  Can't you stand on your own two legs?  Is there some overwhelming consensus that GW2 is a PvP-focused game that I don't know about?  Are there pie charts?  Graphs??  I love graphs.

Do you make up everything you post?

Note: "From my perspective" does not equal a statistic. lol

Way to derail a discussion.

I said that it's a PvP focused game because it's my opinion, I never claimed to have done scientific research on the subject. I don't see you writing "in my opinion" after everything you write either, so where's your evidence to back up what you are saying?

I even made it clear in the next post that it's a PvP focused game from my perspective.

  Eir_S

Elite Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4526

GW2 socialist.

8/31/12 8:43:25 AM#45
You're right, my bad.  Let's not take this any further off course.
  Drafell

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 589

DarkSpace

8/31/12 8:45:11 AM#46

ArenaNet have been forced to stop selling copies via their online store.

I think they ARE a huge success so this question is moot.

  darkhalf357x

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/25/12
Posts: 1041

I'm only playing the role chosen for me. Who you supposed to be?

8/31/12 9:12:32 AM#47
Originally posted by spookymia
If a subscription game with such a huge IP as SWTOR cannot meet it's predicted subscriber amount, and subscription games of the quality of Rift, TERA and the TSW can't meet their targets, GW2 being a B2P game and of the quality it is, is surely expected to meet it's targets. But what if it doesn't? Will that change the MMO industry?

SWTOR was an entirely different scenario and pretty much had nothing to do with Star Wars other than the name.  SWTOR promised something different and something innovative with its fourth pillar.  But they delivered essentially a corridor quest hub design with no other (real) activities to do.  Space combat on rails?  Really?   

It was a perfect example of how what was promised was not delivered, angering its fan base and eroding its subs to the point where it has gone F2P.

GW2 was transparent from the start and pretty delivered what was promised.  Hard to say how the MMO industry will react (either to success) but can best believe they are watching...

  Krytycal

Novice Member

Joined: 4/17/06
Posts: 527

8/31/12 9:25:08 AM#48
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by Krytycal
Originally posted by Grixxitt
Originally posted by Gardavsshade
Originally posted by redman875
Originally posted by EllieAnne
GW2 has tried to move the MMO to the next level.  No monthly fees, dynamic character building, great graphics, established IP, complete story lines, etc.  Now other MMOs have done this before - like Rift and the three soul trees to build your character or the graphics in SWTOR - but I feel that people feel that it is GW2 that brings it all together.  So if GW2 fails, the gamemakers will start questioning if there in an inherent flaw in the entilre MMO design paradigm that cannot be fixed just with tweeking the present system.

 

I think that is quite a generalization.  No offense, and i know its taboo with a new release, but GW2 hasnt brought anything new to the table.  Yes it may have switched some stuf around, movving heals away froma dedicated role, expanded on the old DE system that dates back to anarchy online...but nothing new.

Not saying its a bad game, but everything its done has been done before, and the games you mention and are comparing it to, at the same state of their life, were just as populair with people saying the same exact things about them...groundbreaking/next level ect.

Its FAR too early to be making these broad generalizations as if we are talking about a 5 year old game with a still growing population.

 

If GW2 isnt a huge success there will be another game just like it that promises the same exact things as every major release since 2008...which will have the same exact hype and the same exact moment of clarity when it comes down to earth.

 

If you people havent noticed, its a cycle, a process that repeates itself, and someone is very good at marketing knows how to get gamers drooling every time no matter how similair it is by promising its unique and groundbreaking.

 

Yes you ARE still playing EQ+DAOC with anarchy onlines instances (yes they started that)...and im not sure if their alien invasion was the first DE in mmorpg land but untill someone tells me otherwise ill consider that the pioneer game on that.

 

Dont believe me?  Go onto the AoC/WAR/AION/RIFT/SWTOR forums, do a back search to launch...see the same predictions the same sensitive defense to critism or simply pointing out that expectations were too high.  You know where those games stand now but i feel as if every single person on this forum has amniesia regarding their launches.

 

 

Anyway doesnt matter if it succeeds, you guys will still buy the next game that gets hyped.  They win.

This needs a Sticky.

Lolwut? 

GW2 is taking things from games other than WoW and running with it. It truly doesn't matter which games it uses at this point, non-WoW = innovation (mis-using the term on purpose here but it applies, given the crap we've had to look at the last 12 years)

 

 

Also, in case noone hasn't noticed yet, box sales = success.

GW2 was a success based on preorders alone. The fact that its fun, or not, has absolutely nothing to do with it

GW2 is as innovative as WoW is, that is, it took a bunch of stuff from different games and improved upon it. I personally would have rather seen TSW succeed, as it was actually more innovative than GW2, but alas, it was poorly executed by Funcom.

How was TSW innovative? It took FPS crap graphics and game story to an MMO. It is not innovative at all. The story is it for TSW.

 

GW2 - took many disparate things and put them together and made them work. Along with the art work and music (which is really epic I may say). So what if it borrowed things - Toyota became famous for borrowing engineering from the big 3 - people don't complain about that.

You're making the mistake of thinking that just because something isn't innovative it means it's not good. Quite the opposite, GW2 is a very good game. Definitely a better MMORPG than TSW can ever hope to be. Is it innovative? No. In my time played (3 BWEs, stress tests and launch) I never came across anything in GW2 that made me go "whoa, I've never seen anything remotely close to that in an MMO before", at least not in the way deciphering morse code with pen and paper made me go when I was playing TSW. The setting was also innovative, there are a buttload of high fantasy sword and board whack-a-dragon MMORPGs out there, but how many are there based on modern day New York, London, Seoul, New England, etc? The ability wheel and the fact that you can equip any combination of abilities/passives, while not exactly innovative, is heck of a lot more progressive in my opinion than GW2's system, which not only locks you into classes, but then also locks your skills based on the weapon you are using with 0 build customization aside of traits/stats. Weapon switching (for the professions that have it) is the equivalent of having your ability bar split in half. Whereas some games give you 20-30 abilities to use, GW2 gives you 2 sets of 5 (or 4 if you are an engie or ele) that you can't even customize. Give me TSW's open-ended skill system approach with GW2's execution/animations anyday.

 

Of course, even though TSW had very nice ideas, it was after all created by Funcom, so they failed to deliver on many levels. as I mentioned the animations and gameplay were atrocious to name a few. So was the end-game, etc. It's obviously clear by now that TSW was not the better game, but the investigations quests and the setting itself are more innovative than anything GW2 has done (or rather copied) as far as MMORPGs are concerned.

  ThaneUlfgar

Novice Member

Joined: 4/14/11
Posts: 288

8/31/12 9:26:23 AM#49
What if GW2 isn't a huge success? My life will go on.
  dave6660

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/08
Posts: 2266

"Next time I see you, remind me not to talk to you."

8/31/12 9:47:21 AM#50

"What if GW2 isn't a huge success?"

I will cry myself to sleep every night for the next year and wear all black to mourn.

Or maybe not.

 

"Why so serious?"
-- The Joker

  Loke666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16024

8/31/12 9:56:34 AM#51
Originally posted by Valua
Originally posted by spookymia
If a subscription game with such a huge IP as SWTOR cannot meet it's predicted subscriber amount, and subscription games of the quality of Rift, TERA and the TSW can't meet their targets, GW2 being a B2P game and of the quality it is, is surely expected to meet it's targets. But what if it doesn't? Will that change the MMO industry?

I doubt we'll ever know if it was a huge success. They are not just relying on game sales (as most would believe) they are also relying on active players to buy from their cash shop.

We won't hear nothing if it's doing badly, but we will hear things if it's doing great.

Anyway, the game won't be a success in my eyes until after a year, and then it has to have a large amount of active players (1-5million.)

Dont forget expansions.

But we will hear about it if it is doing badly. ANET will fire a whole bunch of people then like Mythic, FunCom, Bioware and similar companies that made a MMO that underachived. If ANET fired more than 10% of its employees a year from now then it didnt went well.

In my eyes great success is twice the number of GW1 sales, that is 8 million seperate accounts during the games active period (7 years for GW1). Then we are of course talking the same number of expansions as well.

But anything that makes them keep current number of employees are good news.

  Loke666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16024

8/31/12 10:00:43 AM#52
Originally posted by botrytis

Archage is a Korean MMO and so far NONE of them have been evolutionary or revolutionary.

I am taking a wait and see attitude with a grain of salt the size of the Empire State Building. The reason being - people are hyping things about Archage based on what they see not what is actually in the game. If Archage gets the hype like TOR, TSW, and Tera and it is a flop - well we have only ourselves to blame for the hype and the game developer for prodcuing mediocre games.

Lineage was. It had some really cool features we never seen before when it released.

AA is as well but I dont see it becomming a huge success, at least not in the west. It is just too different.

GW2 is different but still familiar enough so it can actually pull of a few million active subscribers for more than a month.

  Drachasor

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 2693

9/01/12 3:42:41 AM#53
Originally posted by Krytycal

You're making the mistake of thinking that just because something isn't innovative it means it's not good. Quite the opposite, GW2 is a very good game.

Agreed it is a good game.

However, I have to disagree on it not being innovative.

Taking a dozen ideas from disparate sources and expanding and improving upon them, then putting them altogether into a coherent whole is innovation.  Just because you can trace its ancestry in various ways from various sources doesn't mean the sum of all of its components isn't new.  Heck, some of those components have been expanded and improved upon so much that they are certainly, by themselves, innovating on the original concept.  DEs are PQs after further innovation.

To say it isn't innovative requires a few things that are quite unfair.  First, it requires dismissing innovations in certain areas (like PQs) where they have made very significant changes for the better from what has come before.  It also requires to ignore some of the smaller details that are fairly different  Sure, the skill system is a bit like some other games (such as Gw1), but it also has a number of differences that are significant in terms of gameplay and design.  Lastly, it requires that you have no appreciation for the immense difficulty in combining a bunch of disparate ideas together into a coherent whole, which is far from easy.  Any idiot can say "why don't they take, R, S, T, U, V, W, X, Y, and Z from games A, B, C, D, E, F, G, and H and put them into one game!"  Doing it and making a good product?  That's not painting by numbers.

Point is, the whole is quite different from any MMO that has come before.  Yes, we can see the sources of inspiration for anything in the game, but that doesn't make the whole less significant or less innovative.  It is something new and different in the MMO genre.  It's not the most innovative thing ever, but it is innovative.

  pkpkpk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/22/10
Posts: 65

9/01/12 12:04:58 PM#54
Originally posted by SuprGamerX

 Why on earth is GW2 considered the mesiah of the  MMO industry?  Seriously it's getting annoying , just the fact that it got a NCSOFT logo slapped somewhere on it's cover box just down graded the game by a few dozen of points.  Eveyrone I know that pre ordered GW2 and played it , returned to either Aion or Tera and a few to Rift.    Again , GW1 was AMAZING back then , times have changed , and they could of done alot more with GW2 , and I really do hope for Anet's sake that they have alot in store that they haven't talked about yet. 

 ArcheAge will change the face of the MMO world in the fantasy departement , but unfortunately we won't be seeing it by 2014.

I agree that GW2 is not the messiah of gaming, but I've seen 'X will change the face of the MMO world...' too many times to count. Vanguard, Shadowbane, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Warhammer Online--I was ready for a new game back in 2006 when I was High Warlord and Blizzard announced The Burning Crusade. Why should I have to wait 8 years to see another MMORPG worth playing? Isn't it possible that they are just stringing you along? Well, optimism isn't a bad thing, I suppose.Still, I'm done wasting my time. OF course, whatever this game is in 2014 will require a computer upgrade. If the modern idea of good graphics is Diablo III opposed to Diablo II, count me out.

  tank017

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/06
Posts: 2206

9/01/12 12:08:21 PM#55

It'll obviously leave its print in the MMO industry.Anet brought some pretty good and fresh ideas to the table.

 

I doubt the B2P method would stick though,I think companies would embrace F2P first,like SOE is doing.

  waynejr2

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3662

RIP City of Heroes!

9/01/12 1:17:12 PM#56
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Isn't GW2 a success? They don't use a subscription fee and charge for the game. Do they realy care all that much after they sold their game from a marketing standpoint...they already cashed in, for them it's a success.

I don't think they are counting on just box sales.  It's obvious they are expecting continual income from the cash shop.  I'd bet they sold a bunch of storage space with the AH down at release.

  waynejr2

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3662

RIP City of Heroes!

9/01/12 1:19:38 PM#57
Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by Valua
Originally posted by spookymia
If a subscription game with such a huge IP as SWTOR cannot meet it's predicted subscriber amount, and subscription games of the quality of Rift, TERA and the TSW can't meet their targets, GW2 being a B2P game and of the quality it is, is surely expected to meet it's targets. But what if it doesn't? Will that change the MMO industry?

I doubt we'll ever know if it was a huge success. They are not just relying on game sales (as most would believe) they are also relying on active players to buy from their cash shop.

We won't hear nothing if it's doing badly, but we will hear things if it's doing great.

Anyway, the game won't be a success in my eyes until after a year, and then it has to have a large amount of active players (1-5million.)

Dont forget expansions.

But we will hear about it if it is doing badly. ANET will fire a whole bunch of people then like Mythic, FunCom, Bioware and similar companies that made a MMO that underachived. If ANET fired more than 10% of its employees a year from now then it didnt went well.

In my eyes great success is twice the number of GW1 sales, that is 8 million seperate accounts during the games active period (7 years for GW1). Then we are of course talking the same number of expansions as well.

But anything that makes them keep current number of employees are good news.

@Loke666, when people cap their characters, what do you expect players are going to be doing in gw2?  What percentage will stay for the PVP?  How many will leave the game?  How soon will we see a drop off?

  Token1337Guy

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/13/05
Posts: 155

9/01/12 1:31:43 PM#58
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by Valua
Originally posted by spookymia
If a subscription game with such a huge IP as SWTOR cannot meet it's predicted subscriber amount, and subscription games of the quality of Rift, TERA and the TSW can't meet their targets, GW2 being a B2P game and of the quality it is, is surely expected to meet it's targets. But what if it doesn't? Will that change the MMO industry?

I doubt we'll ever know if it was a huge success. They are not just relying on game sales (as most would believe) they are also relying on active players to buy from their cash shop.

We won't hear nothing if it's doing badly, but we will hear things if it's doing great.

Anyway, the game won't be a success in my eyes until after a year, and then it has to have a large amount of active players (1-5million.)

Dont forget expansions.

But we will hear about it if it is doing badly. ANET will fire a whole bunch of people then like Mythic, FunCom, Bioware and similar companies that made a MMO that underachived. If ANET fired more than 10% of its employees a year from now then it didnt went well.

In my eyes great success is twice the number of GW1 sales, that is 8 million seperate accounts during the games active period (7 years for GW1). Then we are of course talking the same number of expansions as well.

But anything that makes them keep current number of employees are good news.

@Loke666, when people cap their characters, what do you expect players are going to be doing in gw2?  What percentage will stay for the PVP?  How many will leave the game?  How soon will we see a drop off?

But... why does the active player count even matter?  This isn't a subscription based MMORPG.  They don't need millions of people playing for the next eight years - they want the ones that'll stick around, eventually use the cash shop, and then profit off of expansions.  I thought it was pretty common knowledge by now they don't mind if you put up Guild Wars 2 for a few months once you feel like you've beaten it?

  Inktomi

Highlighted Blogger

Joined: 3/25/09
Posts: 661

Give me sparkly, twinkly...

9/01/12 1:44:01 PM#59
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by Valua

I doubt we'll ever know if it was a huge success. They are not just relying on game sales (as most would believe) they are also relying on active players to buy from their cash shop.

ncsoft quarterly financials are public

financially speaking, GW2 will be very visible how successful it is

 

ncsofts 2nd quarter ending july 31, was reported recently and earnings were broken down by game

the third quarter ending oct 31, will be reported early november

Good call. You can find it all here.

  waynejr2

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3662

RIP City of Heroes!

9/01/12 1:47:14 PM#60
Originally posted by Token1337Guy
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by Valua
Originally posted by spookymia
If a subscription game with such a huge IP as SWTOR cannot meet it's predicted subscriber amount, and subscription games of the quality of Rift, TERA and the TSW can't meet their targets, GW2 being a B2P game and of the quality it is, is surely expected to meet it's targets. But what if it doesn't? Will that change the MMO industry?

I doubt we'll ever know if it was a huge success. They are not just relying on game sales (as most would believe) they are also relying on active players to buy from their cash shop.

We won't hear nothing if it's doing badly, but we will hear things if it's doing great.

Anyway, the game won't be a success in my eyes until after a year, and then it has to have a large amount of active players (1-5million.)

Dont forget expansions.

But we will hear about it if it is doing badly. ANET will fire a whole bunch of people then like Mythic, FunCom, Bioware and similar companies that made a MMO that underachived. If ANET fired more than 10% of its employees a year from now then it didnt went well.

In my eyes great success is twice the number of GW1 sales, that is 8 million seperate accounts during the games active period (7 years for GW1). Then we are of course talking the same number of expansions as well.

But anything that makes them keep current number of employees are good news.

@Loke666, when people cap their characters, what do you expect players are going to be doing in gw2?  What percentage will stay for the PVP?  How many will leave the game?  How soon will we see a drop off?

But... why does the active player count even matter?  This isn't a subscription based MMORPG.  They don't need millions of people playing for the next eight years - they want the ones that'll stick around, eventually use the cash shop, and then profit off of expansions.  I thought it was pretty common knowledge by now they don't mind if you put up Guild Wars 2 for a few months once you feel like you've beaten it?

Hi loke's other account.  Well, if people are going to claim how successful the game is post release, what unit of measurement would you suggest?  Are you saying that B2P gets to call box sales forever but sub games get penalized when subs drop?  If people are going to look at how well the game is doing they need to measure something.  We can't measure people feelings if that's what you are thinking.

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