Originally posted by pierth

 

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Originally posted by nariusseldon

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Originally posted by Gravarg I miss the days when a game took a year or even more to get to max level.  MMOs are all about the journey, that is why people never like endgame...in any game.

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Taking a long time != challenge.

 

In fact, it is worse .. it is just tedium. If it is about the journey, make it short and fun .. then move on to the next journey.

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Except it isn't tedium to the players that enjoy the game. Just like repeating the same content in D3 might be a grind to some players, but exactly what others want in the game.

I suppose. However, i doubt anyone want to take a YEAR to level up to max in D3. Doing D3 a few month is fun, but years? I highly doubt even the fringe fans (and i am a fan) will want that.

Originally posted by fenistil

Originally posted by nariusseldon

 

When you reach max level & max gear, you move on and play another game.

No one says a game needs to last forever. A few weeks is already longer than SP games. Making it too hard is obviously not the solution.

Just look at Sunwell raid back in BC WOW. Only 2% have played .. there is obviously something wrong when 98% of the players ignore the content.

No thanks.  That's not fun.

I have single player, co-cp, normal multiplayer and lobby games for that kind of entertaiment.

Mmorpg bringing same kind of experience is really pointless. Since it is more conveniant, more fun and cheaper to play normal non-mmo lobby or mulitplayer games for that kind of experience.

Mmorpg are only fun when they are bringin challenging experience for long months or years coupled with virtual world experience.

Not really.

More convenient? It takes me the same amount of time to boot up & log into D3, vs WOW. I don't see a difference.

More fun? If the play style is the same, fun is the same.

Cheaper? Not really. D3 (not a MMO) costs $60. Many MMOs are FREE.

If MMOs provide a similar play style, similar fun level to co-op lobby MP games, and it is cheaper (in fact, MUCH cheaper), and as convenient, is there a really not to play it, if i like co-op lobby games? I think not.

Well yo uare missing  out on the real point OP.

The real problem is that devs are trying to make PVE and PVP work under identical conditions and it will NEVER work.

Pvp is often uncontrolled sloppy action with players all over the place doing their own thing.Balance NEEDS to be extremnely well done in pvp,especially 1on 1 which is pretty much what pvp is.

PVE on the other hand can accomodate unbalance and a great deal of it,because it is all about the group effort not the individual.

I have never liked the PVP push in rpg's,i prefer it to be content generated and players all working together to take down the content.

PVP on the otherhand is nothign about content,it is simply my player versus your player.I find too many players seem to be joining these MMORPGs ONLY to relinquish the game/content for a fast pvp end game.

NOBODY should be joining these MMORPG's asking what abotu end game,you shoudl be focused to play THE GAME and it's content.If people do not want content and just pvp there is tons of FPS games for that ,matter fact ,i play them and i am very good at it as well.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Gravarg
I miss the days when a game took a year or even more to get to max level.  MMOs are all about the journey, that is why people never like endgame...in any game.

Taking a long time != challenge.

In fact, it is worse .. it is just tedium. If it is about the journey, make it short and fun .. then move on to the next journey.

you clearly dont know what rpj means, there a game for you they are called fps. you click start, you choose your name and gun and you enter the action.

Lets go fast, fast and just fast, dont take the time to look around and see the world so when i die i will tell o i didnt see nothing but hell that was fast.....

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Caldrin

[mod edit]

Actually, they did up the difficulty again after we did a petition after beta 3.

Honestly is the difficulty pretty good if you play classes like mesmer or thief. Not Meridian or EQ but better than vanilla Wow.

It is aimed at the casual player but casual does not mean you are bad, many casual players today are old vets from classical MMOs. It means they dont have 8 hours every day to grind gear.

This is a very good post Loke.  Mostly I hate the term "casual" and all the overly broad categorizations.  You described it really well.

I don't think the game is too challenging, but the mesmer and thief provide greater challenge than let's say a ranger and other classes.  He mentioned how easy LotRO is, but that again was only true for certain classes.  In its heyday the game was easy with a lore-master, minstrel, guardian, or burg.  That same content witha  champ or hunter meant instant death.  Soloing spiders in the Trollshaws?

I agree with others who said try an ezmode class.  I did and I'm having a good time.  I'll make a challenging class after I've learned the game more and want to spend more time grouping with the guild.

Originally posted by Elikal

Seriously, I so HAVE it had with those people always yelling "MORE DIFFICULT" please. Why are the devs always listen to them? I am really pissed. First The Secret World, which I quit because I died 2000 times. And now with GW2 it is the same again. The difficulty was just right in the late beta, but a few people whined with Esports mentality, some 16 year old action zergers asked for more hardcore, and now beyond level 16 both my Mesmer and my Thief are unplayable. I HATE those people. Why must they always cater THEM? While the world is fully crowded you get along, but play on irregular times, and those classes are a DAMN CHORE. And worse, the story instances are nightmares! I even took a friend along, and we died several times, even had to just ignore some instances, because even with two we simply could not do it, and to hell with levelling, because the DAMN GAME levels you down again, no matter.

I am so fed up with developers always listen to this hardcore crowd who ruin every game because they need games to be a dick size contest to PROVE themselves!

Grrrr

Thank you sir, I for one agree with you 100%.

Originally posted by f0dell54

Originally posted by Elikal

Seriously, I so HAVE it had with those people always yelling "MORE DIFFICULT" please. Why are the devs always listen to them? I am really pissed. First The Secret World, which I quit because I died 2000 times. And now with GW2 it is the same again. The difficulty was just right in the late beta, but a few people whined with Esports mentality, some 16 year old action zergers asked for more hardcore, and now beyond level 16 both my Mesmer and my Thief are unplayable. I HATE those people. Why must they always cater THEM? While the world is fully crowded you get along, but play on irregular times, and those classes are a DAMN CHORE. And worse, the story instances are nightmares! I even took a friend along, and we died several times, even had to just ignore some instances, because even with two we simply could not do it, and to hell with levelling, because the DAMN GAME levels you down again, no matter.

I am so fed up with developers always listen to this hardcore crowd who ruin every game because they need games to be a dick size contest to PROVE themselves!

Grrrr

Thank you sir, I for one agree with you 100%.

If you aren't being sarcastic, you sir, are the definition of a care bear. Especially with how easy everything is now a days. 

Originally posted by Silok

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Gravarg
I miss the days when a game took a year or even more to get to max level.  MMOs are all about the journey, that is why people never like endgame...in any game.

Taking a long time != challenge.

In fact, it is worse .. it is just tedium. If it is about the journey, make it short and fun .. then move on to the next journey.

you clearly dont know what rpj means, there a game for you they are called fps. you click start, you choose your name and gun and you enter the action.

Lets go fast, fast and just fast, dont take the time to look around and see the world so when i die i will tell o i didnt see nothing but hell that was fast.....

LOL .. RPG means long and years of leveling? Have you played Diablo, Diablo 2 and 3? Have you played Torchlight? Have you played any SP RPG .. none requires a year of play.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Silok

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Gravarg
I miss the days when a game took a year or even more to get to max level.  MMOs are all about the journey, that is why people never like endgame...in any game.

Taking a long time != challenge.

In fact, it is worse .. it is just tedium. If it is about the journey, make it short and fun .. then move on to the next journey.

you clearly dont know what rpj means, there a game for you they are called fps. you click start, you choose your name and gun and you enter the action.

Lets go fast, fast and just fast, dont take the time to look around and see the world so when i die i will tell o i didnt see nothing but hell that was fast.....

LOL .. RPG means long and years of leveling? Have you played Diablo, Diablo 2 and 3? Have you played Torchlight? Have you played any SP RPG .. none requires a year of play.

 

Well first, all the game you name are not mmorpg or even mmo. Second when you play a good mmorpg, the journey is not supposed to finsih after 1 month.. hell people still paly dungeon and dragon with pen and paper after what 10 years or more

So again you dont know what rpg mean. The funny part in this is that you probably think that max payne is an rpg cause hey you take the role of max payne and then you shoot everybody and then after 20 hours of playing you finish the game.

It can be a pain to die a lot, but it makes finding the correct strategy more rewarding. Personal stories in GW2 can be ridic, especially if you're soloing it, but when I get stuck, I just leave that part alone for a bit and think of a different way to try things. Or I just keep going at it until my armour all breaks and then take a break from it. Even if I don't feel like a genius for not knowing what approach is best right away, it feels good to figure it out in the end. It doesn't feel nearly so good to just spam a macro and steamroll through content.

Certain portions could definitely be tweaked not to be punishing to the point of discouraging further play, but I like it that the game respects me enough to expect more.

I like having to up my game.  It's nice.  It is especially nice that it feels like going around outside of a group helps hone skills you'll need in harder areas like dungeons.  A lot of MMOs absolutely fail in this area with harder content requiring dramatically different skills.

If a game is easy, then I get bored.  That said, it is usually better if some parts are easier than others.  Stomping on things now and then is fun (though one-shot kills gets old very, very quickly, so I like how GW2 avoids that).  However, I also want hard stuff and having to think on my feet.  GW2 delivers here and that's great.

For what it is worth, regarding GW2, I think it is more about picking up general skills you apply to the whole game than it is about learning the dance routine for each raid boss.  There's a big difference there, and a better feeling of personal progression of skill to me.  Combats also feel better and more realistic when you are planning what to do moment-by-moment with some tactics in your head and maybe a general strategy for a fight...as opposed to having a dance card defining what you do.  The latter sort of difficulty I don't find very engaging.

Though, I can understand that difficulty in general can bother some people.  Well, hopefully there'll be a larger variety of MMOs out there since it looks like GW2 is going to do well.  I am sure some of them will be easier.  It isn't possible for one MMO to be all things for all people, even in terms of difficulty.  So...tough, I guess?

Originally posted by Silok

 

Well first, all the game you name are not mmorpg or even mmo. Second when you play a good mmorpg, the journey is not supposed to finsih after 1 month.. hell people still paly dungeon and dragon with pen and paper after what 10 years or more

 

Supposed to? You decide that? Genre changes all the time. I do not want to play a 10 year RPG. And i play D3, Torchlight, and some MMOs for a while. Who says i cannot do that?

And Diablo is not a RPG?

Originally posted by madazz

Originally posted by f0dell54

Originally posted by Elikal

Seriously, I so HAVE it had with those people always yelling "MORE DIFFICULT" please. Why are the devs always listen to them? I am really pissed. First The Secret World, which I quit because I died 2000 times. And now with GW2 it is the same again. The difficulty was just right in the late beta, but a few people whined with Esports mentality, some 16 year old action zergers asked for more hardcore, and now beyond level 16 both my Mesmer and my Thief are unplayable. I HATE those people. Why must they always cater THEM? While the world is fully crowded you get along, but play on irregular times, and those classes are a DAMN CHORE. And worse, the story instances are nightmares! I even took a friend along, and we died several times, even had to just ignore some instances, because even with two we simply could not do it, and to hell with levelling, because the DAMN GAME levels you down again, no matter.

I am so fed up with developers always listen to this hardcore crowd who ruin every game because they need games to be a dick size contest to PROVE themselves!

Grrrr

Thank you sir, I for one agree with you 100%.

If you aren't being sarcastic, you sir, are the definition of a care bear. Especially with how easy everything is now a days. 

How elitist. We are talking about GAMES here.

Easy? Have you finished hard mode raiding in WOW without over-gearing it, and before they nerf it? Have you finished hardcore mode Diablo 3 inferno?

THere are lots of games people are complaining about too difficult left and right.

Originally posted by Elikal

Seriously, I so HAVE it had with those people always yelling "MORE DIFFICULT" please. Why are the devs always listen to them? I am really pissed. First The Secret World, which I quit because I died 2000 times. And now with GW2 it is the same again. The difficulty was just right in the late beta, but a few people whined with Esports mentality, some 16 year old action zergers asked for more hardcore, and now beyond level 16 both my Mesmer and my Thief are unplayable. I HATE those people. Why must they always cater THEM? While the world is fully crowded you get along, but play on irregular times, and those classes are a DAMN CHORE. And worse, the story instances are nightmares! I even took a friend along, and we died several times, even had to just ignore some instances, because even with two we simply could not do it, and to hell with levelling, because the DAMN GAME levels you down again, no matter.

I am so fed up with developers always listen to this hardcore crowd who ruin every game because they need games to be a dick size contest to PROVE themselves!

Grrrr

If theres no challenge in a game it loses fun for the majority of people, clearly you're not part of that crowd.

If you don't the way MMO's are becoming more difficult then I suggest you either stick with WoW (easiest MMO there is) or just stick with single player games where you are actually the hero that you want to be.

The Secret World's difficultly level is what a lot of people like, I know it's the reason I've got an active sub (along with the setting, story and class system.)

I wouldn't say Guild Wars 2 is difficult though, just as easy as other MMO's, granted I'm only level 31 right now, but on a Mesmer which I was told was one of the harder classes to play, and I'm breezing through the game, my only deaths coming from PvP.

95% of alle games are mede for the "its to hard for me" crowd, so stop complaining

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Silok

 

Well first, all the game you name are not mmorpg or even mmo. Second when you play a good mmorpg, the journey is not supposed to finsih after 1 month.. hell people still paly dungeon and dragon with pen and paper after what 10 years or more

 

Supposed to? You decide that? Genre changes all the time. I do not want to play a 10 year RPG. And i play D3, Torchlight, and some MMOs for a while. Who says i cannot do that?

And Diablo is not a RPG?

 

Originally posted by Valua

Originally posted by Elikal

Seriously, I so HAVE it had with those people always yelling "MORE DIFFICULT" please. Why are the devs always listen to them? I am really pissed. First The Secret World, which I quit because I died 2000 times. And now with GW2 it is the same again. The difficulty was just right in the late beta, but a few people whined with Esports mentality, some 16 year old action zergers asked for more hardcore, and now beyond level 16 both my Mesmer and my Thief are unplayable. I HATE those people. Why must they always cater THEM? While the world is fully crowded you get along, but play on irregular times, and those classes are a DAMN CHORE. And worse, the story instances are nightmares! I even took a friend along, and we died several times, even had to just ignore some instances, because even with two we simply could not do it, and to hell with levelling, because the DAMN GAME levels you down again, no matter.

I am so fed up with developers always listen to this hardcore crowd who ruin every game because they need games to be a dick size contest to PROVE themselves!

Grrrr

 

If theres no challenge in a game it loses fun for the majority of people, clearly you're not part of that crowd.

If you don't the way MMO's are becoming more difficult then I suggest you either stick with WoW (easiest MMO there is) or just stick with single player games where you are actually the hero that you want to be.

The Secret World's difficultly level is what a lot of people like, I know it's the reason I've got an active sub (along with the setting, story and class system.)

I wouldn't say Guild Wars 2 is difficult though, just as easy as other MMO's, granted I'm only level 31 right now, but on a Mesmer which I was told was one of the harder classes to play, and I'm breezing through the game, my only deaths coming from PvP.

There *is* challenge in current games. The point is that some are TOO difficult. People are blinded. Too much challenge is also not conducive to fun. You need the RIGHT AMOUNT.

Just take D3 inferno mode .. it is too difficult and Blizz has to nerf it several times. Also hard mode WOW raids are nerfed.

Originally posted by shinkan

95% of alle games are mede for the "its to hard for me" crowd, so stop complaining

source?

Originally posted by Valua

Originally posted by Elikal

Seriously, I so HAVE it had with those people always yelling "MORE DIFFICULT" please. Why are the devs always listen to them? I am really pissed. First The Secret World, which I quit because I died 2000 times. And now with GW2 it is the same again. The difficulty was just right in the late beta, but a few people whined with Esports mentality, some 16 year old action zergers asked for more hardcore, and now beyond level 16 both my Mesmer and my Thief are unplayable. I HATE those people. Why must they always cater THEM? While the world is fully crowded you get along, but play on irregular times, and those classes are a DAMN CHORE. And worse, the story instances are nightmares! I even took a friend along, and we died several times, even had to just ignore some instances, because even with two we simply could not do it, and to hell with levelling, because the DAMN GAME levels you down again, no matter.

I am so fed up with developers always listen to this hardcore crowd who ruin every game because they need games to be a dick size contest to PROVE themselves!

Grrrr

 

If theres no challenge in a game it loses fun for the majority of people, clearly you're not part of that crowd.

If you don't the way MMO's are becoming more difficult then I suggest you either stick with WoW (easiest MMO there is) or just stick with single player games where you are actually the hero that you want to be.

The Secret World's difficultly level is what a lot of people like, I know it's the reason I've got an active sub (along with the setting, story and class system.)

I wouldn't say Guild Wars 2 is difficult though, just as easy as other MMO's, granted I'm only level 31 right now, but on a Mesmer which I was told was one of the harder classes to play, and I'm breezing through the game, my only deaths coming from PvP.

  Yea , WOW, EQ2, these are the games you should be playing