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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » this game is paifull for a healer at heart.

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85 posts found
  gieger808

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/15/04
Posts: 161

8/31/12 4:40:32 PM#41
Be patient. Changes will happen to the classes to allow the trinity to exist. It's just a core mmo mechanic that MUST exist. You'll see.
  Drachasor

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 2693

8/31/12 4:44:08 PM#42
Originally posted by Vhaln
Think we knew this would be an issue for a long time.  It does feel like they tossed the baby out with the bathwater, as far as healing goes.

I don't think so.  I've find my healing abilities when my Elementalist is Water Attuned to be quite adequate.  Doesn't make me a Holy Trinity Healer, but a little healing does make a difference.

If healers were too effective, then every group would need a healer, and that would screw up the whole grouping dynamic.  So I really think it was just bathwater that they tossed.

  Drachasor

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 2693

8/31/12 4:44:45 PM#43
Originally posted by gieger808
Be patient. Changes will happen to the classes to allow the trinity to exist. It's just a core mmo mechanic that MUST exist. You'll see.

Clearly you have very little experience with group combat systems in various games.  There are tons of other options.  Heck, GW1 itself had some of them.

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3871

8/31/12 4:45:52 PM#44
Read drach's post just before yours gieger, any form of healing advantage will be balanced out of the game, it is entirely opposite to your experience of mmorgs.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (10000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (600 runemaster/Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR

  gestalt11

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/17/06
Posts: 6187

8/31/12 5:33:42 PM#45

Support is great in this game.  Its incredibly powerful and useful.

 

But you won't be able to save idiots like in other games they have to cooperate with what you are doing.  And you need to cooridnate what you are doing.

  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

8/31/12 5:39:55 PM#46
Really? I find it rather refreshing that I'm not considered either the boon or blame for how the party does. Elementalist has some decent healing available in water. Not like you see in your usual mmo though. Although pending on your party you may be thankful you have one that switches to water when needed in dungeon runs.

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

8/31/12 5:41:55 PM#47
Originally posted by Drachasor
Originally posted by Vhaln
Think we knew this would be an issue for a long time.  It does feel like they tossed the baby out with the bathwater, as far as healing goes.

I don't think so.  I've find my healing abilities when my Elementalist is Water Attuned to be quite adequate.  Doesn't make me a Holy Trinity Healer, but a little healing does make a difference.

If healers were too effective, then every group would need a healer, and that would screw up the whole grouping dynamic.  So I really think it was just bathwater that they tossed.

Yeah water is very effective within the scope of the game. Not sure why some dismiss the healing capabilities so much. I was a bit surprised how well they can do upon using it myself considering how much some downplayed it.

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  Urko

Novice Member

Joined: 8/25/06
Posts: 89

8/31/12 5:44:05 PM#48

You cant please everyone , but the whole concept of not having fixed roles, is to take away the set tank , set healer etc in most other mmos.

I think most would like this tbh, everyone becomes more versatile.

  Stx11

Novice Member

Joined: 11/28/09
Posts: 420

8/31/12 5:47:55 PM#49
Originally posted by Fadedbomb
Originally posted by Stx11

You can't heal the way you can in a "holy trinity" MMO at all.

There are ways to make you feel like you are more useful to your group in a Support role though.

First off, Condition Clearing (Cleansing) is huge in this game especially the Dungeons so Professions and Builds focusing on that are really helpful/important. Mesmer and Warrior both have some really strong builds for this.

Second, the game is designed so that people will drop in the harder group content (Downed State and Defeated). There are builds that focus on helping people get back into the fight. Warrior and Mesmer once again can get "Battle Rez" abilities to help with that. Guardians with their Shields and Bubbles are really good at this. One interesting build is Thief as one of the few Professions in the game that gets really good Haste buffs - and that Haste Buff lets you Revive people faster.

Finally, Elementalists specializing in Water have a lot of Support abilities including minor AoE Heals. Same goes for Engineer - some very strong Support builds for that Profession as well.

I call pure BS on this statement....

The holy trinity still exists in GW2, but the whole idea is to give you freedom of choice rather than being forced into a role you don't want to.

 

If you WANT to be a healer, try Staff Guardian. You need to get to around level 20 to actually be an effective healer though.

So how are those single-target heals working out for you in GW2? Oh wait...

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

8/31/12 5:48:02 PM#50
Originally posted by Jakdstripper
i like healing. not playing "whack a mole" with HP bars but actually keeping my team mates alive and saving them from sure death. it gives me more pleasure then getting the final blow on an enemy. call me a healer at heart but in every mmo i've had at least one healer.
i dunno, maybe i just havent found the calss for me yet in this game (i've only tried Guardian, engeneer, thief so far). i like the Guardian because you can shield your mates from damage but the healing is very very limited.

Apparently, you missed your chance to learn Defense and Control (CoX is shutting down) as viable alternatives to the standard trilogy Big Green Glow.

But the big green glow (Empathy) "healer" was the least effective brand of "healer" in that game.  Preventing and limiting damage are always superior to reactively healing it.

GW2 is going to be looking for ex-CoX players, I suspect.

 

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3219

8/31/12 5:50:12 PM#51
This is one of the biggest things that kept me from buying GW2 and might never buy it.  I never buy a game until a month after release, never.  I'm definitely a healer at heart.  I've always liked clerics, druids, etc.  They should have an option if all you want to do is heal, you should be the greatest healer you can be.  If all you want to do is be a glasscannon, you can be.  If you want to be the immovable object, you can be.  I don't like how everyone can do everything, it dilutes the roles in a party, and people won't know what they heck to do.
  dontadow

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 1049

8/31/12 5:53:38 PM#52

You can.  I am a  healer at heart. I play an engineer. in large groups i pop in my elixer gun and play support.  Popping healering turrets where i can, tossing elixers when i need to and reviving those who need it. Then switching to control so i'm not too close the action.

I can't say it benough. You will have to play this game differently.  You love helping, this game offers more ways than just spamming a heal button and watching bars go down.  I just took down this fire temple champion and didnt do too much other than control and support  .

Thsi subject kinda annoys me.  It's like getting in the mario brothers forum and asking, man wish i could collect coins like sonic.  Well you can collect coins, you just have to jump instead of run for them. 

I ant figure out why people would want to a new game to play like their old game.  

  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

8/31/12 5:55:28 PM#53
Originally posted by Gravarg
This is one of the biggest things that kept me from buying GW2 and might never buy it.  I never buy a game until a month after release, never.  I'm definitely a healer at heart.  I've always liked clerics, druids, etc.  They should have an option if all you want to do is heal, you should be the greatest healer you can be.  If all you want to do is be a glasscannon, you can be.  If you want to be the immovable object, you can be.  I don't like how everyone can do everything, it dilutes the roles in a party, and people won't know what they heck to do.

It isn't really like that though. You can still be a rather decent healer. Just not the same as in other games. It varies it up a bit. You aren't pigenholed in a role but pending on how you build your character you can certainly make a healing/support spec. The healing just works a bit different because it is relative to skills you use and many times incorporates damage skills least for ele.

I like it. Kind of nice in my opinion.

...and for a long time now I have played a healer in mmos.

 

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

8/31/12 5:57:24 PM#54
Originally posted by Gravarg
I've always liked clerics, druids, etc.  

You missed Discipline Priests, I take it.

Even WoW has a little bit of defender-esque healing built into it.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Drachasor

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 2693

8/31/12 6:08:24 PM#55
Originally posted by Gravarg
This is one of the biggest things that kept me from buying GW2 and might never buy it.  I never buy a game until a month after release, never.  I'm definitely a healer at heart.  I've always liked clerics, druids, etc.  They should have an option if all you want to do is heal, you should be the greatest healer you can be.  If all you want to do is be a glasscannon, you can be.  If you want to be the immovable object, you can be.  I don't like how everyone can do everything, it dilutes the roles in a party, and people won't know what they heck to do.

Holy Trinity role specialization (Healer, DPS, Tank) is extremely artificial and simplistic.  It requires enemies act like idiots.  Further, it results in a combat system that is inherently boring.  There are many good reasons to move away from it.

Yes, there aren't strictly defined roles in groups, and you aren't likely to see groups were people just do one thing over and over and over again.  A combat system like this requires flexibility on the players, and that means it is more complex and deep than combat in a Holy Trinity game.  Character building in particular has a lot of depth as well.  This means, of course, that the combat is more inherently enjoyable without adding gimmicks to fights.

This doesn't mean everyone is the same however, because you'll want a group of players to bring different things to the table for removing conditions, inflicting conditions, adding boons, removing boons, etc.  Some of that involves healing, but you aren't going to be a pure healer anymore than a combat medic only bandages up the wounded on a battlefield.

You want the Holy Trinity, play another game.  Not having it is one of the big reasons I bought GW2 and they were very clear early on that they weren't going the HT route.  You act like game design is easy and you can just toss in everything and the kitchen sink and balance it.  That's not how it works.  Designing a combat system requires having a goal in mind for how you want that combat to work, what you want players to bring to the table, how dynamic you want it, etc.  Then you have to avoid mechanics that push the game away from that goal and implement mechanics that move it towards it.  Adding in Holy Trinity mechanics would mess up the game horribly.

 

And let me add that I hate being a pure healer in games like WoW.  I can do it and be good (though I'm a better tank), but I find it tedious, boring, and mind-numbing.  On the other hand, I enjoy being a hybrid class that brings a number of tools to th table where I have to choose which one to use at the right time.  Add some support or a heal when necessary, etc.  GW2 enables that sort of play, whereas games like WoW do not.

  Deto123

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/02/08
Posts: 698

8/31/12 8:21:58 PM#56
Just adds to more of the chaos. Sinple, yet chaotic game. I really can t enjoy this game, I keep trying, but I can t wait for a good hard, challenging game again, where I actually talk to the people around me.  It s really just boring IMO.
  Drachasor

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 2693

8/31/12 8:54:43 PM#57
Originally posted by Deto123
Just adds to more of the chaos. Sinple, yet chaotic game. I really can t enjoy this game, I keep trying, but I can t wait for a good hard, challenging game again, where I actually talk to the people around me.  It s really just boring IMO.

There are plenty of difficult things in the game starting with puzzles and dungeons in particular, though some events can be hard as well.  I haven't found it hard to talk to others.  It's not difficult to initiate conversation and it gives good returns.

But yes, combat is more realistic and hence more chaotic.  That doesn't mean there isn't difficult or a lot of things to do.  But it does mean that you don't win tough fights by doing the right dance moves that you've memorized and everyone doing the same couple of tasks over and over and over again.

  EllieAnne

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/07/10
Posts: 23

8/31/12 9:51:13 PM#58
Any of you that have read my posts know that I bemoan the loss of the professional healer.  I will probably get the game eventually to see if I can make the transition from "healer" to "support".  Probably as a water elementist.  I'd know mace/focus guardian is supposed to be good as well but I'd have to get into the mindset of a paladiness instead of sword and shield tank.
  Deto123

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/02/08
Posts: 698

8/31/12 10:07:53 PM#59
Originally posted by Drachasor
Originally posted by Deto123
Just adds to more of the chaos. Sinple, yet chaotic game. I really can t enjoy this game, I keep trying, but I can t wait for a good hard, challenging game again, where I actually talk to the people around me.  It s really just boring IMO.

There are plenty of difficult things in the game starting with puzzles and dungeons in particular, though some events can be hard as well.  I haven't found it hard to talk to others.  It's not difficult to initiate conversation and it gives good returns.

But yes, combat is more realistic and hence more chaotic.  That doesn't mean there isn't difficult or a lot of things to do.  But it does mean that you don't win tough fights by doing the right dance moves that you've memorized and everyone doing the same couple of tasks over and over and over again.

Funny, how I find the combat the same every time, and you don t. Honestly, i can t see anything hard at all in this game, does that make me good, nope, just a simple game, IMO. Obviously talking to others isn t hard, but 90% could care less if you re there at all.

  Drachasor

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 2693

8/31/12 10:13:57 PM#60
Originally posted by Deto123
Originally posted by Drachasor
Originally posted by Deto123
Just adds to more of the chaos. Sinple, yet chaotic game. I really can t enjoy this game, I keep trying, but I can t wait for a good hard, challenging game again, where I actually talk to the people around me.  It s really just boring IMO.

There are plenty of difficult things in the game starting with puzzles and dungeons in particular, though some events can be hard as well.  I haven't found it hard to talk to others.  It's not difficult to initiate conversation and it gives good returns.

But yes, combat is more realistic and hence more chaotic.  That doesn't mean there isn't difficult or a lot of things to do.  But it does mean that you don't win tough fights by doing the right dance moves that you've memorized and everyone doing the same couple of tasks over and over and over again.

Funny, how I find the combat the same every time, and you don t. Honestly, i can t see anything hard at all in this game, does that make me good, nope, just a simple game, IMO. Obviously talking to others isn t hard, but 90% could care less if you re there at all.

There's just so many ways to use abilities and then adding in all the possible utility abilities...I just don't see how you can not see that combat has a great deal of depth.  Heck, even events are like that, honestly.  Toss in all the options you get with two weapons sets (or more options if you are an elementalist or engineer) and the complexity deepens.  In my experience, groups add to this if you bother to think and work in abilities that will aid the group.

And again, there is much harder content.  When you've done a dungeon or two in exploration mode, let me know.  Certainly I've also encountered some tough events, like a giant ooze in the Asura starting area.

And if you don't want to put the slightest effort into communicating with other people, I don't see what your point about complaining is.  Yes, the game doesn't FORCE people to talk to each other.  We are social animals, so if you just bother to try talking you'll get places.  Sometimes I have longer conversations with people, other times just a few sentences exchanged.  Granted it would be cool if there was some sort of integrated voice chat system, but that would have its own huge hurdles if there are 10+ people around.

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