Originally posted by Fratman

My original point was that any great mmo would launch with a monthly fee because companies like money. You can have a sub fee and cash shop like WoW currently has and be wildly profitable.

The fact that GW2 doesn't have a subscription is an admission by the devs that it's not quite up to the level of games like WoW or EvE in terms long term play. I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just pointing out that 6 months or a year from now there isn't gonna be much reason for you to log in, and because Arenanet isn't charging you money each month, they don't have to give you one either.

 

Oh I agree a company like Blizzard would never release a B2P.   Not necessarily about the quality of the game but based upon existing subscriber base.  Not talking existing subscribers but total all time subscribers over the years WoW has been around let's just spitball and say there were 15 million.    That could be way low for all I know.  The person that played from 2004 to 2006 and liked it but just moved on or the person that played for 6 years, 7, or 1.   All of those people have memories of WoW in one shape or form and in hindsight I bet alot of them have fond memories even if they didn't always have the greatest time.  Nostalgia, all that.

Now put the huge machine they have in place behind a new project like Titan if that is what it really is called.  Many of those people who had played WoW in the past along with alot of other newer casual games will give it a shot for the box price along with I would imagine at least 3 months sub.  Right there, money made back and profit besides.  All because it's Blizzard.

Now take a company like Arenanet who doesn't have this huge existing base.  They have a respectable base from GW1 but nothing like the millions upon millions Blizz does.  They do have to put the game out there in a way that will generate the most sales.   I would imagine they received a ton more orders from people that might have been on the fence about it if it had been a subscription based game just because they know they don't have to worry about a monthly sub.  They can try it and leave, try it to the endgame and leave or stay around for years if they want.

Succinctly, I think arenanet is doing a reasonable thing with the product they're putting forth.  They're pulling in many people who might not have bought it and in 6 or 9 months or a year when their next box comes out to add on alot of the people playing now will be buying it. 

They are still making oodles of cash and that's really all that matters for a company.

edit:  sorry it's so long and i'm sure most people will skip my post but i'm going on vacation tomorrow fishing and i'm kicking it off with a decent amount of frosty beverages tonight.  :)

Originally posted by varrius
Please do not derail this thread.   It isn't a place to argue or criticize anyone.   I simply stated my opinion and the topic should be based around that, thank you.

doesn't really matter what you say good or bad it will end up a bitch fest back and forth.. i made this compilation in my sig and just get called a rabid fanboi because of it.. you just need to use the block feature and ignore some people.

Originally posted by Fratman

Originally posted by bliss14

Originally posted by Fratman

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Fratmam

 

 

lol wow.. i know everyone has opinions but yea...

It's pretty easy to back up my statement. Show be one F2P or B2P mmo that's good and has people logging in for 6 months or year after release?

Gw1?

GW1 is a lobby game/co-op instance grinder. I wouldn't consider it an mmo. I also wouldn't consider it good.

To each their own.  It's nice that some people can like a game and play it for years without the approval of a random forum poster whether it's free, buy or sub.  I have no regrets subbing WoW for years as I enjoyed it up through WotLK and I have no regrets buying GW2 as I also enjoy it. 

I've got a feeling there will be plenty of people playing GW2 for a good long time.  I know I will if only to play the various races for their stories.   That's what RPG's were originally all about.

My original point was that any great mmo would launch with a monthly fee because companies like money. You can have a sub fee and cash shop like WoW currently has and be wildly profitable.

The fact that GW2 doesn't have a subscription is an admission by the devs that it's not quite up to the level of games like WoW or EvE in terms long term play. I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just pointing out that 6 months or a year from now there isn't gonna be much reason for you to log in, and because Arenanet isn't charging you money each month, they don't have to give you one either.

 

Sorry, but this made me laugh IRL. People still played GW1 up until now, with no sub, and that wasnt even a full MMO with all the features GW2 offers, which is  a lot more than most subscription games do. As one of the guys above me posted, read that link he has about Anet & success.

Theres a difference between being succesful, and being greedy / milking your customers for every cent you can because you know you have a product they want. Blizzard took the award on the latter long ago, becaus ethey already had the massive following that was willing to dealw ith it. Many others tried to repeat the same... and where are they now?

Originally posted by varrius

Originally posted by QuicklyScott

OP is trolling.  

Quoted from yesterday -

 

"Will Guild Wars 2 pass the Trial by Fire?

 

I am beginning to see how this game isn't as revolutionary as everyone thinks.    Everyone is excited about having a new game, something different.   But as I look at these features, I feel as though they will not pass the test, they are merely 'new' things in a game but are not the proper revolutionary changes we need, to keep interest.

Sure, people will continue to play it - likely until Mists of Pandaria comes out, but..   I think we will soon see what I like to call "Launch-Fever" wear off.  

As this reality becomes more apparent and the medication that is boredom wears on your "launch-fever" we will all see that Guild Wars 2 is really falling very, very short of our expectation."

 

You've changed your tune OP.

Changing my mind is trolling?   If I change my opinion at all, its a troll?   Thats a bit absurd.

In politics they call this "flip-flopping" and the press crucifies them for doing it.

Expect no better treatment here.

Besides, I'm starting to think I fell for it it again.

I for one, am really hoping it has enough staying power to keep me happy till Archage comes out.  And if its fun up till that release and it sucks, ill keep playing GW2. 

There just games after all...

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by varrius

Originally posted by QuicklyScott

OP is trolling.  

Quoted from yesterday -

 

"Will Guild Wars 2 pass the Trial by Fire?

 

I am beginning to see how this game isn't as revolutionary as everyone thinks.    Everyone is excited about having a new game, something different.   But as I look at these features, I feel as though they will not pass the test, they are merely 'new' things in a game but are not the proper revolutionary changes we need, to keep interest.

Sure, people will continue to play it - likely until Mists of Pandaria comes out, but..   I think we will soon see what I like to call "Launch-Fever" wear off.  

As this reality becomes more apparent and the medication that is boredom wears on your "launch-fever" we will all see that Guild Wars 2 is really falling very, very short of our expectation."

 

You've changed your tune OP.

Changing my mind is trolling?   If I change my opinion at all, its a troll?   Thats a bit absurd.

In politics they call this "flip-flopping" and the press crucifies them for doing it.

Expect no better treatment here.

Besides, I'm starting to think I fell for it it again.

 

LOL @ you thinking forum-posting about MMORPGs is related to politics.

Originally posted by Hardanger
Yeah, ok.  Sure.  

Theres a difference between being succesful, and being greedy / milking your customers for every cent you can because you know you have a product they want. Blizzard took the award on the latter long ago, becaus ethey already had the massive following that was willing to dealw ith it. Many others tried to repeat the same... and where are they now?

You're agreeing with me. Blizzard is greedy because they have a great game people want (u mad?) so they have the ability to milk their customers. Arenanet can't be as greedy because their game isn't offering as much as WoW, so they're settling for people just buying the box and maybe a cash shop item every once and awhile. What is so controversial about that statement? Arenanet is not some special company that loves their playerbase more than other developers. If they could get away with charging you more money they would.

Originally posted by Fratman

Theres a difference between being succesful, and being greedy / milking your customers for every cent you can because you know you have a product they want. Blizzard took the award on the latter long ago, becaus ethey already had the massive following that was willing to dealw ith it. Many others tried to repeat the same... and where are they now?

You're agreeing with me. Blizzard is greedy because they have a great game people want (u mad?) so they have the ability to milk their customers. Arenanet can't be as greedy because their game isn't offering as much as WoW, so they're settling for people just buying the box and maybe a cash shop item every once and awhile. What is so controversial about that statement? Arenanet is not some special company that loves their playerbase more than other developers. If they could get away with charging you more money they would.

So many people are naive enough to think that is false.

Originally posted by Fratman

Theres a difference between being succesful, and being greedy / milking your customers for every cent you can because you know you have a product they want. Blizzard took the award on the latter long ago, becaus ethey already had the massive following that was willing to dealw ith it. Many others tried to repeat the same... and where are they now?

You're agreeing with me. Blizzard is greedy because they have a great game people want (u mad?) so they have the ability to milk their customers. Arenanet can't be as greedy because their game isn't offering as much as WoW, so they're settling for people just buying the box and maybe a cash shop item every once and awhile. What is so controversial about that statement? Arenanet is not some special company that loves their playerbase more than other developers. If they could get away with charging you more money they would.

I believe that offering a product without a subscription fee will allow for a larger number of copies to be sold - due to that fact, it entices people.

Further, it is an excuse to keep the product at $59.99 and all expansions.   If they sell more copies than a traditional P2P MMO, which asks for CC information -a huge turnoff to most- it will likely translate to more profit, especially with the cash shop, than paid expansions of equivalent value.

You're misinterpreting the business model here.  

Originally posted by varrius

Originally posted by QuicklyScott

OP is trolling.  

Quoted from yesterday -

 

"Will Guild Wars 2 pass the Trial by Fire?

 

I am beginning to see how this game isn't as revolutionary as everyone thinks.    Everyone is excited about having a new game, something different.   But as I look at these features, I feel as though they will not pass the test, they are merely 'new' things in a game but are not the proper revolutionary changes we need, to keep interest.

Sure, people will continue to play it - likely until Mists of Pandaria comes out, but..   I think we will soon see what I like to call "Launch-Fever" wear off.  

As this reality becomes more apparent and the medication that is boredom wears on your "launch-fever" we will all see that Guild Wars 2 is really falling very, very short of our expectation."

 

You've changed your tune OP.

Changing my mind is trolling?   If I change my opinion at all, its a troll?   Thats a bit absurd.

Just curious... what caused you to change your mind?

Originally posted by Stx11

Originally posted by varrius

Originally posted by QuicklyScott

OP is trolling.  

Quoted from yesterday -

 

"Will Guild Wars 2 pass the Trial by Fire?

 

I am beginning to see how this game isn't as revolutionary as everyone thinks.    Everyone is excited about having a new game, something different.   But as I look at these features, I feel as though they will not pass the test, they are merely 'new' things in a game but are not the proper revolutionary changes we need, to keep interest.

Sure, people will continue to play it - likely until Mists of Pandaria comes out, but..   I think we will soon see what I like to call "Launch-Fever" wear off.  

As this reality becomes more apparent and the medication that is boredom wears on your "launch-fever" we will all see that Guild Wars 2 is really falling very, very short of our expectation."

 

You've changed your tune OP.

Changing my mind is trolling?   If I change my opinion at all, its a troll?   Thats a bit absurd.

Just curious... what caused you to change your mind?

I hadn't played the game yet, which is apparent in the statements I was making.   I was only reviewing the features.   Now that I have played it, I admit it was an ignorant assessment.   I apologize for that misconception.

Originally posted by Distopia

Yet people wonder where all the "MMO messiah" comments come from... it's only "haters" who say things along those lines...

 

*Points at thread title*

Originally posted by Wolvards

Originally posted by Psychow

Originally posted by varrius

Originally posted by Zekiah

In three months everyone will be off chasing the next "savior" and the next one to "end all MMORPGs".

History is a difficult thing to learn from if you're not paying attention.

WoW was a savior for a while to many.   Guild Wars 2 is along those lines.   For example, when is the last time you've heard of a game banning sales, due to too many players? 

 

Only on games that released with too few servers because they don't see the population being sustainable. Or is 1 Million just crazy OMG too many for a MMO?

You must be a hater. (kidding haha, i seen yours and distopia's conversation).

But seriously, 1 mill was pre-purchases. PRE purchases. So that's 1 mil by launch day, who else bought it after. not trying to go total rabid fanboi on you, but if the company sold 1 mil by launch, and people are *claiming* stores are sold out in the UK, as well as some palces in the US. Another million isn't far fetched.

Not saying 2 million is zomg a ton of people, but it is a lot of people.

I think they need to make new servers personally, otherwise que times will go up farther and farther.

1 mil before launch day.  Prepurchase doesnt include pre orders.

Post self editied as it took posters quote completely out of context.

Reading comprehension is your friend.

Originally posted by varrius

you have the greatest MMORPG ever made.

I stopped reading right there.  

Originally posted by coretex666
Do we actually want any MMORPG to end all MMORPGs?

Like The War to end all Wars? (Nukes)