Originally posted by spitfire1064
This seems very odd to me, They said that Paragon studios were shutting down.....not City of heroes. seems like there is more to come maybe?

To sunset a game is to shut it down in the gaming world/developer's terms.  For those that have never experienced it before.

I was very disheartened when I heard this. Although I have not played CoH in awhile, for many years I was a long time poster on this form. I met a lot of good friends in CoH, I still maintain contact with them even though we have moved onto other games.

CoH was the game that I always enjoyed. That I wanted to share my enthusiam for with others.

This monkey is sad.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Rednecksith
[mod edit]

Yeah, that's classic NC Soft.

So let's see...

Lineage in the west

Auto Assault

Tabula Rasa

Dungeon Runners

Edit: Exteel

and now CoX

If by 'classic' you mean 'giving a game every chance before pulling the plug' then I agree.

Originally posted by Drakynn
They are shuttign it down after 8 years of service?The MONSTERS!!!

There are mmorpgs that are even older and that are still up and running. More skeleton, yes, but not shuting down.

But the truly "horrible" part is the fact that they gave no clear reason. They drop the news like that out of nowhere, and all they say is that NCSoft is "realining focus".

To me, that reads like "COH wasn't make enough money for us, so now we're going to shut it down to milk the living hell out of Guild Wars2"

It's a huge middle finger to the entire community by NC to not give them a clear explanation. We know the company is facing finacial problems and is in the red and are banking on GW2 to save them. Fine. If COH wasn't profitable, then it's understandable to close it.

But the problem is that they say nothing. I'm not even playing, but just go to the forums. Everyone's angry at the silence and for a good reason.

Originally posted by Rednecksith

Originally posted by Aviggin

Originally posted by Rednecksith

Originally posted by cyress8

Originally posted by Rednecksith
[mod edit]

Cannot blame them if the game was losing money.  Hell, I tried to come back myself, but the game is just too old now.  I bet you don't even play the game and just reacting because it was NCSoft.

I played the game for two years after it launched (still have the box somewhere), and subbed sporadically afterwards (when in between other games). All indications were that the game had a healthy population and was doing quite well.

The only reason given for this shutdown is, "We're changing the company focus. So all you loyal supporters and players can go fuck yourselves."

Sorry, but I feel I have a right to be upset at a company shutting down an MMO for no good reason (given, at least).

You are right about one thing though: I DO hate NCSoft. They're the EA of South Korea.

This is actually 100% accurate. They never gave a specific reason for closing it down, other than that they're "changing focus". They never said it wasn't making money -- it just probably wasn't making as much money as they wanted to warrant the hassle of keeping the team together to continue producing content.

Exactly! If the game wasn't making money that's one thing. I'd still be upset, but a lot more understanding. This announcement however just came completely out of left field.

I will say that after this I certainly won't be giving NCSoft any more money. Such a shame, because Lineage Eternal looks pretty good. Oh well.

Edit: The most damnable misery of the whole thing is that NCSoft will most likely just sit on the IP until people completely forget about it, rather than sell it off or release the source code to open the way for private servers. Just like Tabula Rasa and Auto Assault. Selfish, greedy bastards.

So that means that you won't be buying anything from Guild Wars'2 item mall and no expansions/content packs?

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Rednecksith
[mod edit]

Yeah, that's classic NC Soft.

So let's see...

Lineage in the west

Auto Assault

Tabula Rasa

Dungeon Runners

Edit: Exteel

and now CoX

If by 'classic' you mean 'giving a game every chance before pulling the plug' then I agree.

 

Are you saying they gave Tabula Rasa and Auto Assault "every chance"?

CoX was my 1st MMO and it will always hold a special place im my heart. I stopped playing  a few years ago but it was a good six year run of the game with the best teaming system around. TR was my fav so I know how the players must feel but with GW2, Wildstar and Lineage on the horizon, CoX was looking a bit worn. I'm surprised as well because the times I've been on recently it was always looked pretty busy.  I'm sorry to say but the only way you'll find out the real reason why it closed is when an ex-emplyee spill the beans. I expect the reasons will be more prosaic that we wish but NCsoft does not dwell on the past.

RIP CoX

and TR

and AA

and DR

If you think the game was highly profitable and yet they'd shut it down you are kidding yourself.

No company wants to come out and say their product wasn't paying for itself, they almost always use something along the lines of "restructuring" or "refocusing". Those are just typical industry terms the same way that sunsetting means closing.

No company shuts down something that is very profitable, plain and simple. It means the game was just barely breaking even so estimates were it would be in the red by the end of the year so they're shutting down based on that (a very very typical business move) or the game is already losing money so they're shutting it down. Based on the abruptness of the announcement, I would guess it was already losing money. If the margins were down to even and on their way to being losing, they probably would have come out more gently with simply saying the game would shut down at the end of the year and then follow that announcement with a closing of the studio etc.

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

 

Exactly! If the game wasn't making money that's one thing. I'd still be upset, but a lot more understanding. This announcement however just came completely out of left field.

I will say that after this I certainly won't be giving NCSoft any more money. Such a shame, because Lineage Eternal looks pretty good. Oh well.

Edit: The most damnable misery of the whole thing is that NCSoft will most likely just sit on the IP until people completely forget about it, rather than sell it off or release the source code to open the way for private servers. Just like Tabula Rasa and Auto Assault. Selfish, greedy bastards.

So that means that you won't be buying anything from Guild Wars'2 item mall and no expansions/content packs?

I'm really debating that right now, TBH. One one hand most of that money will go to Arenanet... but on the other, some of it will end up in NCSoft's pockets.

Of course, this assumes I'll be playing GW2 after the shininess has worn off.

I definitely won't be buying any of their new games though. Which sucks, because that means no WildStar either :(

Definitely, definitely sad.  I can't say much, as I haven't played since around the time they first went F2P, but I was under the impression it was at least doing better than Champions Online. 

Then again, maybe it was.  NCSoft would be a Company that would close down even a good, marginally profitable game.  Hell... Dungeon Runners was probably being developed by interns to run on old pentium II laptops for servers, and they still killed that.  20 players probably could've supported it.

DCUO lacks content, CO's a klunkfest, but CoX was, while a bit slow moving, a game with solid customization and a ton of content.  Just seems a shame to hit the DEL button on all that work.

NCSoft has already shown it's colors with TR. They will close it down and lock it in a vault just to spite someone.

I feel that this will be the same with CoX

Originally posted by MMOwanderer

Originally posted by Drakynn
They are shuttign it down after 8 years of service?The MONSTERS!!!

There are mmorpgs that are even older and that are still up and running. More skeleton, yes, but not shuting down.

But the truly "horrible" part is the fact that they gave no clear reason. They drop the news like that out of nowhere, and all they say is that NCSoft is "realining focus".

To me, that reads like "COH wasn't make enough money for us, so now we're going to shut it down to milk the living hell out of Guild Wars2"

It's a huge middle finger to the entire community by NC to not give them a clear explanation. We know the company is facing finacial problems and is in the red and are banking on GW2 to save them. Fine. If COH wasn't profitable, then it's understandable to close it.

But the problem is that they say nothing. I'm not even playing, but just go to the forums. Everyone's angry at the silence and for a good reason.

There are a few older games still skeleton staff and servers yes suprisingly soem are even bene run by everyones favorites EA and SOE.Whether they have mroe or less players than CoX is unknown as no oen can provide those numbers.

A explanation would indeed be nicebut NCSoft does not owe you one legally maybe morally but not legally.Legeally they jsut got to give you reasonable due notice.

My pure specualtion is that CoX is still profitable albiet  only marginally at this stage but due to the world's economy NCSoft is having to downsize and unfortunately Paragon Studios and CoX has been caught int he crossfire.

Personally I tihnk they are probably better off closing down Aion and amybe Lineage in the west and keepign CoX open but I can see how shutting down a 8 year old Western game looks better in Asia where I assume the majority of their shareholders are.

At the very least they shoudl shut CoX down and have paragon work on something new as the Paragon team has been fantastic in developing and supporting their game.

But the game lasted over 8 years that's a fantastic run in the video game market.I ahve serious doubts that Champions Onlien will last that long,DCUO might because Sony will .keep marginal games running jsut to pad out it's Station Access lineup.

Sad to see the game go, I had a lot of fun with it back when it first launched and played for a number of months, made some good friends there as well I still know to this day. 

However I think a lot of people here are acting sort of nuts....I mean if the game or any game is not pulling in money and is costing money to keep alive then why would a BUSINESS want to keep that game going?  They did a lot of CoH, many updates, went F2P they pulled out all the stops but in the end it did not matter. 

To froth at the mouth at companies for pulling something that is not making money or worse costing them money is naive and selfish. That would be like everyone here going insane because Sony does not make VCR's anymore since hardly anyone uses them and to keep them in production and on shelves is costing them more then what they make off them. 

All of these game publishers are a business, not our mom, dad, best friend or whatever. Their goal is to deliver a good product and to make proffits off us the consumer. If done right the company is happy to be making the money and the consumer is happy to be enjoying a good product they feel is worth that money.  

ANother example since I can see how people still won't get it....

Take television. If a show has piss poor ratings then that show will be cancelled. This does not make the network some sort of evil monster out to hurt everyone but rather the network knows the show is not well liked but by a small minority and so the show will not make the revenue needed. 

Or if you goto Taco Bell and they sell a burnt squid and caramel burrito that hardly anyone buys but a small few, so they discontinue the burrio as it costs them money to keep it in production. Does this make Taco Bell horrible? Again no...they are a business. 

Sad to see CoH guy like anyone else, but I also get it and Im not going to start screaming like an entitled infant and sounding totally ignorant because of it. 

At the end of the day we the consumers hold a lot of the power, the consumers did not support CoH, so the game had to go. 

Originally posted by ScorpionOne
Ok.  I'm reading all of this, trying to understand what NCSoft is doing.  Which, I agree with alot of people.  it doesn't make sense.  CoX was a staple name in the MMO world.  Say Superhero MMO and the first name uttered was CoX.  So, instead of being dips**ts, why not sell it to say...Turbine.  Or (God forbid) PWI?  Sell it to someone to keep all that hard work going.  If you're that damned hungry for money, offer to someone to make some return on it.  At least THEN you might look a bit better than you do now NCSoft.

You know they may have tried to do so but if the game is not making money and is 8 years old....other companies may simply not want to buy it....Or maybe they want to keep the license to make a new City of Heroes game in the future. 

Again just so much ignorance on these forums. People spouting off stuff they have no knowledge of or allowing their emotions to blind them from common sense. 

NCsoft and other publishers are not the devil out to get you, they are just a business that has to make money like any other in the world. 

Are some more seedy then others? Of course, though NCsoft I really would not lump into being one of the more horrible ones. Honestly Funcom takes the cake there I think even if I did enjoy TSW in many ways that company has been always dishonest and never seems able to keep with their promises to the consumer. 

If people are so  angry then why didnt you and all your friends support CoH? It is a two way street after all :)

Originally posted by Vesavius

'This morning we announced that Paragon Studios will be taking to the skies of City of Heroes for the last time.

In a realignment of company focus and publishing support, NCsoft has made the decision to close Paragon Studios. Effective immediately, all development on City of Heroes will cease and we will begin preparations to sunset the world's first, and best, Super Hero MMORPG before the end of the year. As part of this, all recurring subscription billing and Paragon Market purchasing will be discontinued effective immediately. We will have more information regarding a detailed timeline for the cessation of services and what you can expect in game in the coming weeks.

The team here at Paragon deserves special praise for all that we have accomplished over the last 5+ years...'

 

http://na.cityofheroes.com/en/news/news_archive/thank_you.php

 

Cya :(

That does suck...was a great game.  Only thing that kept me away ffrom it longterm was the lack of pvp.  This game is the perfect game for a pvp server...good and evil vs each other at its finest...was always shocked they failed with pvp.  Still, game was cool

Originally posted by Robsolf

Definitely, definitely sad.  I can't say much, as I haven't played since around the time they first went F2P, but I was under the impression it was at least doing better than Champions Online. 

Then again, maybe it was.  NCSoft would be a Company that would close down even a good, marginally profitable game.  Hell... Dungeon Runners was probably being developed by interns to run on old pentium II laptops for servers, and they still killed that.  20 players probably could've supported it.

DCUO lacks content, CO's a klunkfest, but CoX was, while a bit slow moving, a game with solid customization and a ton of content.  Just seems a shame to hit the DEL button on all that work.

 I think people tend to highly underestimate the cost of keeping an MMO running. Even with a skeleton crew maintaining the servers, running customer service, etc. Once you factor in that crew for a year, the servers, the bandwidth, taxes, you are talking absolute minimum of probably 1 million a year if you trim down to the truly bare essentials to keep the lights on. That is the equivalent of ~6000 monthly subs continuously for the whole year. I realize your Dungeon Runners comment was sarcastic, but still don't think you know how many players it would really take to keep a game alive.

Now this was a game that I believe the announcement said 80 people. That alone was at least 5-6 million a year when you factor in pay, health care costs, building/computer costs. And you haven't even factored in servers and bandwidth. That means you're up to bringing in the equivalent of at least 40,000 monthly subs for every single month of the year and most likely actually more than that. Do you think their current cash shop was really bringing in $600,000 to 1 million every single month? I certainly don't think so.

It is always sad to see an MMO close. But I think players are too quick to jump to the conclusion that it was done for a nefarious purpose rather than simply it was no longer profitable.

NCSoft has shown a tendancy to kill their games, more so than most other publishers. 

Part of it is probably the cost saving measure of cutting out the studio.  City of Heroes is probably still supporting itself.  However,  stopping development, and leaving it running in an 'as is' mode would be a loss of face for them, I guess.   Easier to kill it. 

IT did have the disadvantage (in today's gaming world) of being an Open GL game, requiring a bit of different expertise.

Sad to hear this indeed.  Our house was not the culprit, we had four subscriptions.   Quite a shame, the game had developed nicely, had had lots of ongoing innovation.   I regular hear things being praised in GW2 that were pioneered by CoH, some of them from the era of the launch, ie pre WoW.  

You could really feel super in City of Heroes.  But now I guess it is time for the villains to win....