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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Is the Trinity system really Gone?

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67 posts found
  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5258

8/29/12 10:41:38 PM#21
Originally posted by Volkon

Yes, the trinity is gone in GW2, whether people are willing to accept that fact or not. Players are no longer tied to roles. Your skills are where the damage, control and support aspects reside, and your weapons have a blend of all three. You need to instead focus on using the right skills at the right time for the effect you need at that time.

 

It's really that simple.

This is still a trinity.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  Atlan99

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/08
Posts: 1355

8/29/12 10:43:57 PM#22
Whenever I come across something even remotely challenging in the game. I can cast a spell that summons a monster that tanks for me. I can heal this monster when needed. I also damage the mobs while my pet tanks them.
  Nevulus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/23/06
Posts: 1290

8/29/12 10:51:09 PM#23

The roles are still there. Faded, but still there.  As someone else said earlier "any experienced MMO player couldve told you that"

 

Many have said it since BWE1, others continue to refute to no avail.

What I DID NOT like seeing today was blatant calls in general chat for a guardian to "run some dungeons" It grounded me REAL quick, and then I realized "Yup, it really is similar to every other mmo ever", and that's ok.

  fyerwall

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 3204

8/29/12 11:00:58 PM#24
Originally posted by Nevulus

The roles are still there. Faded, but still there.  As someone else said earlier "any experienced MMO player couldve told you that"

 

Many have said it since BWE1, others continue to refute to no avail.

What I DID NOT like seeing today was blatant calls in general chat for a guardian to "run some dungeons" It grounded me REAL quick, and then I realized "Yup, it really is similar to every other mmo ever", and that's ok.

Even if the game were a skill based "everyone can be everything" game, you will still have people demand Spec X or Build X,Y and Z for DungeonX. It's most often the players, not the game, that find a way to pidgeonhole players/classes/sepcs/builds.

There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"


  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

8/29/12 11:05:43 PM#25
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Volkon

Yes, the trinity is gone in GW2, whether people are willing to accept that fact or not. Players are no longer tied to roles. Your skills are where the damage, control and support aspects reside, and your weapons have a blend of all three. You need to instead focus on using the right skills at the right time for the effect you need at that time.

 

It's really that simple.

This is still a trinity.

No, you're wrong. The trinity is set player roles. These are simply attributes on your skills. Many skills have two or three of these attributes attached to them.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  stratasaurus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/18/11
Posts: 222

 
OP  8/30/12 12:40:41 AM#26
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by Jakdstripper

of course the trinity still exists but it's not nearly as selected as it usually is.

as long as there is a healing mechaninc there will be those classes that can do it better, and even though every keeps screaming "but you can't just heal!" you are still  mostly a healer that can quickly turn into a dpser.

same with tanking. sure there is no "tank" class but there are those classes that are better at it even if just slightly.

 

all in all it's interesting, it's something new to explore and experiment with. we are always bitching about stale and bored...well here is a chance to learn and discover something different.

That's the part people keep screwing up. You don't "turn into" one thing or another. Your different aspects are spread all through your skills. You may use a skill that damages the enemy while providing regen to allies in the area. Another, such as Chaos Storm, will damage enemies, damage and control enemies with assorted debuffs and support allies with various random boons. You don't switch from healer to tank to dps. You use the skills you need to at the right time.

Your post makes no sense, bascially you are saying that even if your build is built around one thing as long as you have another skill, even if not very useful, you are not part of the trinity setup.  For example if I am an ele in water I tend to have more healing support stuff but since I also have a damage ability I'm not "tied in" to the healer roll.  Well if you are a protection paladin in Wow you have heals but that hardly means you are not a tank but instead a healer.  All healers in wow have skills that cause damage that doesn't mean they are not healers.

  Serin101

Novice Member

Joined: 4/12/12
Posts: 104

8/30/12 1:10:14 AM#27
I managed to finish AC explorable (ghosteater route) with a group of 2 elementalists, 2 mesmers and 1 Guardian. Was pretty fun considering the group was very competent with managing aggro (mesmers and EMs have so much Control options its scary) and I managed to grab enough tokens to get the Skull shield which looks awesome. In reference to the trinity, the holy trinity doesn't exist, but is replaced with a much more flexible trinity of control, damage and support. Skilled players can recognize when to switch to the ideal role when a situation changes.


http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/359874/Aerowyns-Video-Compilation-of-ALL-things-Guild-Wars-2.html

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5258

8/30/12 1:49:17 AM#28
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Volkon

Yes, the trinity is gone in GW2, whether people are willing to accept that fact or not. Players are no longer tied to roles. Your skills are where the damage, control and support aspects reside, and your weapons have a blend of all three. You need to instead focus on using the right skills at the right time for the effect you need at that time.

 

It's really that simple.

This is still a trinity.

No, you're wrong. The trinity is set player roles. These are simply attributes on your skills. Many skills have two or three of these attributes attached to them.

Damage, Control and Support. Did I miss count somewhere? mixing, matching, switching around, filling multiple in one set, none of that changes the fact that, as you said. Skills are where the aspects reside.

If you really want to Argue, I can bring up Rift. Chloro Mage. Does AOE party healing though feed back from damaging the target. Yet no one will argue it's a part of the trinity. But yet there are multiple aspects to it's skills. The bard works in a similar fashion. Now because GW2 adopts feedback healing through dmage in the Guardian, now, it's not a trinity?

The only difference is there is no dedication to one role, and players are "hotswapping" around all the time.  But regardless of what skills I have active, they can be put into one or more of those categories.

 

When it all boils down....I'm a guardian...I am there to do damage, but also to support the team through assisted heals and barriers for protection. It's a role dude, doesn't matter what skill set I'm using, it's what my class does.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  terrant

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/07
Posts: 1685

8/30/12 2:20:32 AM#29
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Volkon

Yes, the trinity is gone in GW2, whether people are willing to accept that fact or not. Players are no longer tied to roles. Your skills are where the damage, control and support aspects reside, and your weapons have a blend of all three. You need to instead focus on using the right skills at the right time for the effect you need at that time.

 

It's really that simple.

This is still a trinity.

No, you're wrong. The trinity is set player roles. These are simply attributes on your skills. Many skills have two or three of these attributes attached to them.

Damage, Control and Support. Did I miss count somewhere? mixing, matching, switching around, filling multiple in one set, none of that changes the fact that, as you said. Skills are where the aspects reside.

If you really want to Argue, I can bring up Rift. Chloro Mage. Does AOE party healing though feed back from damaging the target. Yet no one will argue it's a part of the trinity. But yet there are multiple aspects to it's skills. The bard works in a similar fashion. Now because GW2 adopts feedback healing through dmage in the Guardian, now, it's not a trinity?

The only difference is there is no dedication to one role, and players are "hotswapping" around all the time.  But regardless of what skills I have active, they can be put into one or more of those categories.

 

When it all boils down....I'm a guardian...I am there to do damage, but also to support the team through assisted heals and barriers for protection. It's a role dude, doesn't matter what skill set I'm using, it's what my class does.

Sigh. This again.

 

OK, the concept of -A- trinity where players can fulfill one of three roles (damage, control, support) still exists.

The "Holy Trinity" model, where every party MUST have one 100% dedicated healer, one 100% dedicated tank, and the players are locked in those roles at all times, while DPS just has to worry about staying out of fire and spamming attacks? That does not exist in this game. Players can try to make it exist, and they'll find themselves failing.

 

The argument that geezer is trying to make was that were this a standard Holy Trinity game like WoW, your support guardian would be standing in the back and spamming heals. Constantly. you would do no damage, no CC, and have no responsibility other than staring at health bars. Were you defensive specced, you'd be standing in front of the mob, spamming mitigation abilities. Were you DPS, you'd be staying out of fire and running through whatever optimal dps rotationa spreadsheet told you to.

 

In the GW2 model (or what they are hoping to achieve, your call on whether they have entirely), All five players provide support, damage, and control. Yes you can support better than a greatsword hunter. That doesn't mean he shouldn't be using his heals/buffs to help the party. And that doesn't mean that you shoulod, or even can, ignore any and all damage or crowd control to focus entirely on heals.

 

Does that make any more sense?

  Rayshe

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1295

8/30/12 2:22:04 AM#30
The roles are not gone, however they are not as critial as in other games. but alas the holy trinity still exists, however its abit different and more of a option than a requirement.

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  RebelScum99

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 1127

8/30/12 2:26:32 AM#31
The trinity has been replaced with an all-out zerg.  
  Ambros123

Novice Member

Joined: 12/04/11
Posts: 891

8/30/12 2:31:05 AM#32
Originally posted by RebelScum99
The trinity has been replaced with an all-out zerg.  

Try that in a dungeon and go ahead and fail fail fail and fail some more.

 

  User Deleted
8/30/12 2:34:09 AM#33
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by Castillle
Originally posted by Volkon

Yes, the trinity is gone in GW2, whether people are willing to accept that fact or not. Players are no longer tied to roles. Your skills are where the damage, control and support aspects reside, and your weapons have a blend of all three. You need to instead focus on using the right skills at the right time for the effect you need at that time.

 

It's really that simple.

Thief + Pistol Offhand + Press 5 every 4 seconds = trolololol u cant touch me

Grats?

 

I run a mesmer. I can make you touch yourself.

You. I like you.

  gwei1984

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/22/12
Posts: 378

8/30/12 2:50:01 AM#34
As long as people pigeonhole every class and game, some sort of trinity will remain. But every step farther away from the strict tank/heal/dps system is a good one.

Hodor!

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5258

8/30/12 2:53:03 AM#35
Originally posted by terrant
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Volkon

Yes, the trinity is gone in GW2, whether people are willing to accept that fact or not. Players are no longer tied to roles. Your skills are where the damage, control and support aspects reside, and your weapons have a blend of all three. You need to instead focus on using the right skills at the right time for the effect you need at that time.

 

It's really that simple.

This is still a trinity.

No, you're wrong. The trinity is set player roles. These are simply attributes on your skills. Many skills have two or three of these attributes attached to them.

Damage, Control and Support. Did I miss count somewhere? mixing, matching, switching around, filling multiple in one set, none of that changes the fact that, as you said. Skills are where the aspects reside.

If you really want to Argue, I can bring up Rift. Chloro Mage. Does AOE party healing though feed back from damaging the target. Yet no one will argue it's a part of the trinity. But yet there are multiple aspects to it's skills. The bard works in a similar fashion. Now because GW2 adopts feedback healing through dmage in the Guardian, now, it's not a trinity?

The only difference is there is no dedication to one role, and players are "hotswapping" around all the time.  But regardless of what skills I have active, they can be put into one or more of those categories.

 

When it all boils down....I'm a guardian...I am there to do damage, but also to support the team through assisted heals and barriers for protection. It's a role dude, doesn't matter what skill set I'm using, it's what my class does.

Sigh. This again.

 

OK, the concept of -A- trinity where players can fulfill one of three roles (damage, control, support) still exists.

The "Holy Trinity" model, where every party MUST have one 100% dedicated healer, one 100% dedicated tank, and the players are locked in those roles at all times, while DPS just has to worry about staying out of fire and spamming attacks? That does not exist in this game. Players can try to make it exist, and they'll find themselves failing.

 

The argument that geezer is trying to make was that were this a standard Holy Trinity game like WoW, your support guardian would be standing in the back and spamming heals. Constantly. you would do no damage, no CC, and have no responsibility other than staring at health bars. Were you defensive specced, you'd be standing in front of the mob, spamming mitigation abilities. Were you DPS, you'd be staying out of fire and running through whatever optimal dps rotationa spreadsheet told you to.

 

In the GW2 model (or what they are hoping to achieve, your call on whether they have entirely), All five players provide support, damage, and control. Yes you can support better than a greatsword hunter. That doesn't mean he shouldn't be using his heals/buffs to help the party. And that doesn't mean that you shoulod, or even can, ignore any and all damage or crowd control to focus entirely on heals.

 

Does that make any more sense?

I understood perfectly what it is I am supposed to do in a group seting. But becuse it's a break from traditional models, there is disagreement on how to define it.

Ultimately, if we can't agree on how to define the player's responsibilities in GW2, I really could care less as long as everyone knows how to function in the setting.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  Purutzil

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2912

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

8/30/12 2:53:59 AM#36

Damage, Support, Crowd Control.

 

The new trinity the game has. Its there by far. Tanks more so act as "Crowd Control" in the game or "Support" depending on their particular pick, not acting as much as 'tanks' as they do to fill in the area and mainly trying to keep the attention on them as a 'hopeful task'. 

 

The trinity might look different but its there. It just is a bit more 'flexible' is all. 

  Excalaber2

Novice Member

Joined: 3/25/07
Posts: 357

8/30/12 9:28:05 AM#37
Originally posted by Volkon
...

Grats?

 

I run a mesmer. I can make you touch yourself.

lol!  That was a good one.

Disclaimer: This is not a troll post and is not here to promote any negative energy. Although this may be a criticism, it is not meant to offend anyone. If a moderator feels the post is inappropriate, please remove it immediately before it is subject to consideration for a warning. Thank you.

  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3221

8/30/12 9:32:42 AM#38
There is no way in MMOs to get rid of the trinity.  The reason is in a party everyone will have a role.  These roles are the trinity.  If you want to get rid of the Trinity, you'd make everyone  have 60% mitigation, high dps, and high hps...then there's no point to party with others.  This reminds me of the Warden in Lord of the Rings Online.  My warden can topple elite masters solo.  I did it for awhile to get max rep with Stanguard and a few other reps...There's a stigma about Wardens in lotro though.  Alot of players don't like having them in thier party, even though they can do alot of the things a party can do solo.  It's like having a party with just one member.
  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

8/30/12 9:33:06 AM#39
Originally posted by Atlan99

I think rumors of the trinity's demise have been greatly exaggerated.

 Yeah

It isn't as prevalent as in other games but it is still present in this game. Hell, I had to switch to water for healing purposes in AC last night for the group I was in.

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  Raven

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/06
Posts: 1987

"Only the dead have seen the end of war" Plato

8/30/12 9:37:37 AM#40
Originally posted by Wickedjelly
Originally posted by Atlan99

I think rumors of the trinity's demise have been greatly exaggerated.

 Yeah

It isn't as prevalent as in other games but it is still present in this game. Hell, I had to switch to water for healing purposes in AC last night for the group I was in.

This ^

It is a lot more loosely done, but it is still there.

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