Originally posted by Angier2758

Originally posted by observer
The combat is alright.  The only thing i don't like about it?  Wasting cooldowns because i was out of range.  I'll just have to adapt though.

 Unlike the OP this is a real complaint...

 

Fans can say it makes the game harder because you have to eyeball ranges and LOS.....

It is kind of annoying your 45 sec cooldown gets blown because the person is slightly out of range.

If you look at the skills, those with range (when you have a target) will have a red line under them if you're out of range. The bar goes away when you're in range.

Wow, a lot of fans here. I'm happy for GW2. But anyone who thinks that GW2 combat is better than other MMOs is just plain wrong. Tera is better. TSW is on par. RaiderZ will be right in the mix.

Maybe people are confusing combat animations with combat mechanics, because GW2 certainly does the animations well. That might be the only thing about its combat that is better than say, TSW.

So no, managing cooldowns, being aware of when to use situational abilities, evading when necessary--none of these things are unique to GW2 or make it hands down better than other MMOs in terms of combat mechanics.

Two things:

1) Wasting your c/ds just because they're available at the moment might be a very bad idea. It's all situational.

2) The OP should try thief. Signets can be used as passives most of the time and weapon skills have no c/ds. Instead you have a limited resource (initiative) powering your attacks.

Originally posted by Krytycal

Originally posted by Loke666

I am playing a thief, we dont have cooldowns for our attacks, just for some utility skills. Instead you use initiative that slowly fills up and if you spams you skills you will die fast.

I have not played all classes so OP might be right about some but in my expeirence you really need to time some skills when you play or die.

Compared to traditional MMO combat like say, EQ2 this is rather different, you must move almost all the time and positioning and the timing of certain skills is life and death.

Of course the first few levels you can probably just spam the keys but it wont work for long. Make a thief OP.

What you described is basically how the "rogue" or "assassin" classes are played in a slew of MMOs. You have attacks that build initiative, you have finishers that consume it. You need to know when to use which, when it's best to blow your load, and when it's best to GTFO. Moving and positioning has always been important in every MMO I've played. It's really no different in GW2.

The only aspect in GW2's PvP I'd call remotely innovative is the fact there are no dedicated healers.

No, you dont attack to build initiative and all your attacks beside the first skill (basically the autoattack) cost initiative.

You start with 10 points , attacks cost between 1 and 5 points and it regenrates 1 point a second or something like that.

You do need to try it to really get it. And I been playing other rogue classes since Meridian 59, this one is very different.

Originally posted by Boardwalker

Tera is better.

/sigh Tera combat is obviously worse (at least PvP-wise) as you can't cast/shoot on the run. GW2 combat is nearly perfect. I say nearly because the amount of spell effects can be overwhelming sometimes. This is pretty much my only negative observation so far.

Originally posted by wowfan1996

/sigh Tera combat is obviously worse (at least PvP-wise) as you can't cast/shoot on the run. GW2 combat is nearly perfect. I say nearly because the amount of spell effects can be overwhelming sometimes. This is pretty much my only negative observation so far.

When you say "perfect", are you talking about mechanics, or animations? Because that is not true of the mechanics. If it were, then GW2 would not be the only MMO with perfect combat mechanics--TSW would be as well.

OP, you mentioned nothing about combos... I don't think you understand the combat to be honest.

The fact that you can combo with other classes and sometimes yourself, and swap between weapon sets...

Originally posted by Boardwalker

Originally posted by wowfan1996

/sigh Tera combat is obviously worse (at least PvP-wise) as you can't cast/shoot on the run. GW2 combat is nearly perfect. I say nearly because the amount of spell effects can be overwhelming sometimes. This is pretty much my only negative observation so far.

When you say "perfect", are you talking about mechanics, or animations? Because that is not true of the mechanics. If it were, then GW2 would not be the only MMO with perfect combat mechanics--TSW would be as well.

For me personally I find the mechanics in GW2 to be spot on. There's an elegant flow in being able to see and react rather than simply mash off cooldown or the like. Being able to move while casting, use terrain and obstacles as well as dodge mechanics to avoid damage, the lack of a trinity forcing a role... it all flows for me into a system that more "natural" (for want of a better word) than anything I've played in MMOs prior. I admit I haven't done TSW or Tera, nor do I have any interest in games that stick to the archaic trinity mechanics anymore, so I can't really offer a comparison between them.

Originally posted by Boardwalker

Wow, a lot of fans here. I'm happy for GW2. But anyone who thinks that GW2 combat is better than other MMOs is just plain wrong. Tera is better. TSW is on par. RaiderZ will be right in the mix.

Maybe people are confusing combat animations with combat mechanics, because GW2 certainly does the animations well. That might be the only thing about its combat that is better than say, TSW.

So no, managing cooldowns, being aware of when to use situational abilities, evading when necessary--none of these things are unique to GW2 or make it hands down better than other MMOs in terms of combat mechanics.

Teras combat is pretty good, but the way the animations lock you up all the time makes it loose in my books, and i think they made a big misstake keeping the trinity for such action based combat. I havnt tried TSW and RaiderZ yet so I wont comment on them but I like GW2s combat a lot. 

Both GW2 and TERA have combat that doesnt feel like I played it for the last 16 years and I think this is what so many like about it.

Originally posted by Boardwalker

Wow, a lot of fans here. I'm happy for GW2. But anyone who thinks that GW2 combat is better than other MMOs is just plain wrong. Tera is better. TSW is on par. RaiderZ will be right in the mix.

 

Maybe people are confusing combat animations with combat mechanics, because GW2 certainly does the animations well. That might be the only thing about its combat that is better than say, TSW.

 

So no, managing cooldowns, being aware of when to use situational abilities, evading when necessary--none of these things are unique to GW2 or make it hands down better than other MMOs in terms of combat mechanics.

It's deeper than this.  Which heal, utilities and traits you use multiplies the process.  Take into account how many different boons and conditions there are in GW2 as well.  Combo fields... You have a lot of options in combat for every profession.  If the criteria for "best combat" is the amount of things taken into consideration when building and putting you avatar in combat GW2 is really good.

I'm not going to argue which game has better combat though because that can come down to preference.  For me I'm finding GW2 to be better because 1/2 my build is done up front and the other half is done on the fly while I'm in combat, fun combat being able to freely move around.

Originally posted by Aelious

 It's deeper than this.  Which heal, utilities and traits you use multiplies the process.  Take into account how many different boons and conditions there are in GW2 as well.  Combo fields... You have a lot of options in combat for every profession.  If the criteria for "best combat" is the amount of things taken into consideration when building and putting you avatar in combat GW2 is really good.

 

I'm not going to argue which game has better combat though because that can come down to preference.  For me I'm finding GW2 to be better because 1/2 my build is done up front and the other half is done on the fly while I'm in combat, fun combat being able to freely move around.

And I appreciate that. But in TSW, you also have similar things to think about: which actives do I use, which weapon combos suit my style, which burst, blast, hinder, and impair abilties do I use, what passives best complement my actives, what sequence of actives best maximizes my combat, etc. Also in TSW can you move around while casting, just like GW2. Add to TSW's list of features that you can use any weapon or ability in the game on a single character because it is classless, and you've got a good argument that TSW's combat, and character building, is as good as GW2's, if not better.

I'm not arguing that one game is better than the other. Both are good, and I plan to play both. But to say that GW2 combat is better than other MMOs is subjective and limited by the number of games that you've played.

Originally posted by Aelious

Originally posted by Boardwalker

Wow, a lot of fans here. I'm happy for GW2. But anyone who thinks that GW2 combat is better than other MMOs is just plain wrong. Tera is better. TSW is on par. RaiderZ will be right in the mix.

 

Maybe people are confusing combat animations with combat mechanics, because GW2 certainly does the animations well. That might be the only thing about its combat that is better than say, TSW.

 

So no, managing cooldowns, being aware of when to use situational abilities, evading when necessary--none of these things are unique to GW2 or make it hands down better than other MMOs in terms of combat mechanics.

 

It's deeper than this.  Which heal, utilities and traits you use multiplies the process.  Take into account how many different boons and conditions there are in GW2 as well.  Combo fields... You have a lot of options in combat for every profession.  If the criteria for "best combat" is the amount of things taken into consideration when building and putting you avatar in combat GW2 is really good.

 

I'm not going to argue which game has better combat though because that can come down to preference.  For me I'm finding GW2 to be better because 1/2 my build is done up front and the other half is done on the fly while I'm in combat, fun combat being able to freely move around.

I don't think anyone here is saying that GW2 combat is better or worse, what people are saying is that its combat is not overly different from several other MMORPGs. Yes, buffs/debuffs are called Boons in GW2, resource building/spending is slightly different for some classes, CC is shorter, as is stealth. Additional ability bars are hidden in the form of weapon swaps/toolkits, positioning and dodging is very important, etc. All of this has been done before in MMORPGs, and it probably explains why the OP, who doesn't seem to like the combat of traditional MMORPGs, is not enjoying GW2's combat.

As far as MMORPG combat goes, GW2's is pretty good, but if you don't enjoy that type of combat, you probably won't like GW2.

Originally posted by grapevine

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by grapevine

I'm enjoying the combat, but it is very spamming and simplistic.

 

Also noticed they claim the trinity doesn't exist, but you can still build and gear into it.   Once you do you are basically OP, at least as tank with HP regen (i.e. playing a Warrior).  Only thing actually missing is aggro control, so if its lost its not easy getting it back.

Be careful... that's somewhat feasible in the low level zones, but as you progress and the mobs become more difficult (and intelligent) you'll find yourself having extreme issues. You really need to dump the "role" concept and think fresh.

 

I'm in the level 25+ zone.   Those specs work.

Not really, they work for about 5 minutes until that mob regens its health or teleports to you or stealths and your left juggling cool downs and get burned. Also don't work that well in the dungeons.

I'm sure it works but doesn't work as well as the more viable builds.

Originally posted by Boardwalker

Wow, a lot of fans here. I'm happy for GW2. But anyone who thinks that GW2 combat is better than other MMOs is just plain wrong. Tera is better. TSW is on par. RaiderZ will be right in the mix.

 

Maybe people are confusing combat animations with combat mechanics, because GW2 certainly does the animations well. That might be the only thing about its combat that is better than say, TSW.

 

So no, managing cooldowns, being aware of when to use situational abilities, evading when necessary--none of these things are unique to GW2 or make it hands down better than other MMOs in terms of combat mechanics.

I very much agree with this.  GW2 combat is definitely the weakest part of the game for me.  After playing Tera, I'm trying to tolerate the lackluster combat in GW2 until I get higher level and get to the first dungeon but so far there's really little satisfaction at level 15.  Feels like one big zergfest.

Originally posted by Krytycal

I don't think anyone here is saying that GW2 combat is better or worse, what people are saying is that its combat is not overly different from several other MMORPGs. Yes, buffs/debuffs are called Boons in GW2, resource building/spending is slightly different for some classes, CC is shorter, as is stealth. Additional ability bars are hidden in the form of weapon swaps/toolkits, positioning and dodging is very important, etc. All of this has been done before in MMORPGs, and it probably explains why the OP, who doesn't seem to like the combat of traditional MMORPGs, is not enjoying GW2's combat.

 

As far as MMORPG combat goes, GW2's is pretty good, but if you don't enjoy that type of combat, you probably won't like GW2.

Good explanation. I can see your point and I agree. And don't get me wrong, I like GW2's combat just fine, I just wanted to point out that it isn't significantly better than other games out there, at least to me.

Same as OP apart that it wasn't tera for me but C9 (Continent of the ninth)

I'm playing a mesmer and I'm still on the lower levels (lvl 11) but the first time I logged in gw2 I promptly turned my mouse to see if the camera rotates but it doesn't and was kinda let down a little. (Yes I know holding right click the camera rotates but it's annoying having to hold the right click 99% of the times)

I hope the skill selection improves later on as on my mesmer most off hand weapons have roughly 3 skills each which is too low to choose from imo. It's not enough of a reason to quit the game yet as I like going out randomly and having tasks automatically shown on the screen and I'm not forced to do them but it's not exactly an action combat it's more of a hybrid same as TSW.

But I will just say many people even ingame are seriously making me yawn in real praising this game as if it is the holy grail that will save the gaming industries because it's flawless with "no problems".... Even earlier the server I'm playing on was lagging like shit because people kept on logging on the full servers and these people always have an excuse for everything.

I'm seriously contemplating on removing the chat window or switching to the combat tab for some days hopefully the holy grail talks will cease or lessen by a large margin.

Originally posted by Boardwalker

Originally posted by Aelious

 It's deeper than this.  Which heal, utilities and traits you use multiplies the process.  Take into account how many different boons and conditions there are in GW2 as well.  Combo fields... You have a lot of options in combat for every profession.  If the criteria for "best combat" is the amount of things taken into consideration when building and putting you avatar in combat GW2 is really good.

 

I'm not going to argue which game has better combat though because that can come down to preference.  For me I'm finding GW2 to be better because 1/2 my build is done up front and the other half is done on the fly while I'm in combat, fun combat being able to freely move around.

And I appreciate that. But in TSW, you also have similar things to think about: which actives do I use, which weapon combos suit my style, which burst, blast, hinder, and impair abilties do I use, what passives best complement my actives, what sequence of actives best maximizes my combat, etc. Also in TSW can you move around while casting, just like GW2. Add to TSW's list of features that you can use any weapon or ability in the game on a single character because it is classless, and you've got a good argument that TSW's combat, and character building, is as good as GW2's, if not better.

 

I'm not arguing that one game is better than the other. Both are good, and I plan to play both. But to say that GW2 combat is better than other MMOs is subjective and limited by the number of games that you've played.

I played the TSW beta and studied the wheel so I'm not out of the loop but didn't get to go indepth.  Outside of that I have played all the major titles so I have a grasp on the differences between their combat systems.

Regarding the TSW comparison there is a difference right up front.  In TSW everyone shares the same wheel and has the same choices when building a character.  That's not a bad thing just the way they chose to do it.  In GW2 weapon choice and the skills you get from them is also dependent on profession.  An Elementalist choosing dagger/dagger is going to have a completly different set of weapon skills than a Theif with dagger/dagger.  Add to that the fact Elementalists have 5x4 weapon skills with attunements while the Thief mixes weapon skills based on the combination of them things get hairy to compare.

That's what's hard about gauging GW2's combat.  Each profession has different mechanics up front that make them different from all the others.  However if someone rolls a Warrior, for example, they may think the overall combat is not much different than any other game or even worse not realizing the other classes don't just get five abilities to the left depending on the weapons they have.  Guardians have Virtue skills, Mesmers have clone shatter options, Engineers have bonus skills depending on what abilities they have.  These are still seperate from the abilities on the right side.  Then you add the trait lines which change your build even further.

When you finally get to combat this is how it can shake out.  I'll use a Guardian as an example because that's what I play.  Once in active combat I will have 10 weapon skills to choose from on my left depending on what two sets I chose.  Two seperate sets of five abilities.  Above those I will have my three virtues giving me passive buffs unless I use them for their active ability.  To my left I will have my chosen heal, my three normal abilities and my Elite Skill.  BTW my Elite skill is Tomb of Wrath so when I pop that the five buttons on me left change to the abilites I can use while Tomb of Wrath is up.  This is at the same time I am in active combat moving around, using active dodge and trying not to die.

To me GW2 combat is the most fun I have had in a long time.

Originally posted by Boardwalker
When you say "perfect", are you talking about mechanics, or animations? Because that is not true of the mechanics. If it were, then GW2 would not be the only MMO with perfect combat mechanics--TSW would be as well.

Both actually.

I played MMOs where I had 30+ keybindings at once and while I was successfull enough it was literally painful sometimes. I played rogue in early WotLK and the highest PvE DPS build had 7 skills in the ST rotation. Halfway through Naxx I couldn't feel my left hand anymore. At some point I said "enough" and respecced for slightly less DPS but much more enjoyable gameplay.

Then I played Rift and I had a mile-long macro on every key. Even for PvP.

You see all of this was fun at times but now I really want something more stremlined and less painful. Maybe I'm just too old. :)

P.S. And mobility. I like mobility. Well, thief is much like rogue classes in other games because they usually have only instant attacks anyway but other classes feel very different.

I agree with the OP entirely, and I have to agree with everyone else on the thief.

My first character was a ranger, which I found to be just tedious. You stand there and spam your auto attack and then use any ability (that makes sense to use) as soon as it is off cooldown. If I was using a bow, and a mob ran up on me, I'd just switch to sword and own it. 

Fact is, none of it is particularly interesting; combat is shallow, very shallow. Dodge is not as major a part of combat as everyone is pushing. Sure, it's important, but it doesn't make combat that much deeper. Your auto-attack may do four different things, but you have no control over it. There's not combo points to build up, no warrior rage-like mechanics. Nada. Every class I have played (ranger, ele, engi, mesmer) is auto-attack and wait for cooldowns. Hit your utility abilities when you can. 

The only shining light in the whole game that breaks this mold is thief. Thief is fun. But, honestly, only a little bit more than the rest.