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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » With the Failure of New AAA Titles, Why Not Just Re-Skin. Re-Boot One of the Classics?

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87 posts found
  Serignuad

Novice Member

Joined: 1/19/05
Posts: 86

 
OP  8/28/12 6:13:55 PM#1

With the failure (relative to their expectations) of several recent AAA titles where companies have invested hundreds of millions of dollars into brand new and untested products, when will someone finally have the gumption to try re-skinning and re-leasing one of the first generation of MMO classics?

 

1. Asherons Call

2. EQ

3. DAOC

4. UO

5. AO

6. Others

 

I for one would pay the usual AAA prices for re-skinned versions of 1-3 and I fully believe there are probably millions of people that would do likewise.

 

Yes, re-skinning the first-generation of hard-coded games would involve new engines and a lot of work, but I also remain convinced it can be done much quicker and cheaper than starting up a new MMO.

 

Sure, maybe we first generation MMOers are remembering the trials and tribulations of our first loves through rose-colored glasses (or bulky CRTs if you want to be literal:) but that doesn't mean that we wouldn't flock to hand over our money to find out the hardway that our expectations have moved on. But I actually think that membership retention would be far greater than the current generation(s) of water-treading MMO titles despite reality not living up to nostalgia.

 

Everyone has their Lottery dream, I buy a Power Ball ticket every week in the hopes of calling up Turbine and asking how much they would sell me Asherons Call for. I'd be glad to put my as-of-yet unwon money where my mouth is ;)

 

 

EDIT:  By re-skin I also include updating animations to modern expectations (or beyond). Even AAA titles seem to put a strange lack of emphasis on animations, TSW for example.

 


  Ren128

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/27/12
Posts: 67

8/28/12 6:18:22 PM#2

AO is getting a new graphics engine, but its been comming soon for a few years now :(. Hopefully not too long now.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eitkIC6r3Dk

 

 

  logicwar

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/17/06
Posts: 67

8/28/12 6:19:47 PM#3
you had me at 1.
  Serignuad

Novice Member

Joined: 1/19/05
Posts: 86

 
OP  8/28/12 6:29:47 PM#4

I just read that EA spent (estimated) 500 million dollars in royalty payments, marketing and development costs for SWTOR.

I'm guessing for 50 million they could simply have done a re-skinned "reboot" of SWG* and been wildly successful.

 

* I never played, but I'd guess a reboot of SWG pre CU or NGE, which-ever of the two caused the mass exodus.

 

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16452

8/28/12 6:40:48 PM#5

It wouldnt work. We are not really the same people as we were back then and frankly do I think they could do all those games a lot better.

I think a lot of old players are wearing rose colored glasses when they think about those old games. Sure, I had a great deal of fun back then and I loved the sense of community but just reskinning them would not be good.

If you on the other way took one of those gams (like AC) and thought how you would improve it and make it more fun you might get a winner. Stop looking just on what everyone else are doing right now and actually think out new fun mechanics for yourself.

Those games were so great because they all did their own thing. Reskinning old stuff would be the opposite of what needs to be done.

I would go further back and start where CCP is right now: back to translating a P&P game to a MMO (and not just stealing a little of the world but implementing mechanics as well). 

The genre started with new thinking devs, reskinning old stuff is so far from what made games like M59, UO and AC great as you can get.

  firefly2003

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/16/08
Posts: 2568

I miss you Star Wars Galaxies...:(

8/28/12 6:57:58 PM#6
I would like to see a reboot of Star Wars Galaxies with updated graphics and none of the features removed that made it great.
  Serignuad

Novice Member

Joined: 1/19/05
Posts: 86

 
OP  8/28/12 6:59:10 PM#7
Originally posted by Loke666

It wouldnt work. We are not really the same people as we were back then and frankly do I think they could do all those games a lot better.

 

I obviously, disagree. :)

 

I realize we aren't the same people we were back then, but that's where the magic of nostalgia comes in. I dont think it can be over-estimated.

That and half the attraction of the idea is the (comparatively) low risk versus spending 200 million plus on an untested title.

 

Gog.com is making a decent living off making old computer games playable on modern machines. There is a reason for that. Great games + Nostalgia = still a lot of fun.

The same can be said for why people collect old toys or restore classic cars.

 

Take Sophia Loren, Brigette Bardot, Raquel Welch or Audrey Hepburn. Give then new graphic engines and the world would fall in love with them all over again. ;)

 

  Purutzil

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2822

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

8/28/12 7:01:32 PM#8
Because, if that happened, even if they were brand new today they would fail. None of the classics would do any good today, heck, I'd bet a lot of them would be considered failures no matter how much we loved them. 
  Serignuad

Novice Member

Joined: 1/19/05
Posts: 86

 
OP  8/28/12 7:08:17 PM#9
Originally posted by Purutzil
Because, if that happened, even if they were brand new today they would fail. None of the classics would do any good today, heck, I'd bet a lot of them would be considered failures no matter how much we loved them. 

And yet people are still playing them 13 years later.

  Demandman

Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/11
Posts: 60

8/28/12 7:09:25 PM#10
Originally posted by firefly2003
I would like to see a reboot of Star Wars Galaxies with updated graphics and none of the features removed that made it great.

Unfortunately SWG has some inherent flaws which need some gamebreaking changes to approach.

The jedi system was an inevitable doom to the pre-CU experience, and any relaunch would have to be done without jedi as an attainable class. By the time NGE launched, the jedi population, with it's low maintenance cost, and it's significance in pvp had pretty much turned the economy stale and phased out other combat classes (beyond 1v1s). If SOE hadn't dealt the killing blow (NGE) to the game, we would most likely have had more negative memories today.

SWG just didn't function as a "permanent" playground, but the journey from A to Z was definitely cool.

  Varking

Novice Member

Joined: 9/16/07
Posts: 435

Two there should be; no more, no less. One to embody the power, the other to crave it.

8/28/12 7:09:47 PM#11

Wasn't Age of Conan sort of a glorified reskin of AO? I remember when the game came out they had tooltips for skills and abilities that were direct rips from AO.

 

http://forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=137978

 

Also, the report system was a direct rip from AO as well among other things. 

  Purutzil

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2822

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

8/28/12 7:17:41 PM#12
Originally posted by Serignuad
Originally posted by Purutzil
Because, if that happened, even if they were brand new today they would fail. None of the classics would do any good today, heck, I'd bet a lot of them would be considered failures no matter how much we loved them. 

And yet people are still playing them 13 years later.

Its called Nostalgia. It allows us to come back and play even the worst game just since when we use to play it, we found such joy in playing it. Its something humans have that will make us come back to watching movies over and over. 

 

Take a look at the movies. So many remakes have come out over time. I'll bet you someone who had seen the original will likely find preference in the original, while another who never was around for the original will claim the newer version was better in most cases.

 

Take a look at silent films. With sound being around, do you really feel like you can like a silent movie so much more then one with sound? 

  Serignuad

Novice Member

Joined: 1/19/05
Posts: 86

 
OP  8/28/12 7:30:21 PM#13
Originally posted by Demandman
Originally posted by firefly2003
I would like to see a reboot of Star Wars Galaxies with updated graphics and none of the features removed that made it great.

Unfortunately SWG has some inherent flaws which need some gamebreaking changes to approach.

The jedi system was an inevitable doom to the pre-CU experience, and any relaunch would have to be done without jedi as an attainable class. By the time NGE launched, the jedi population, with it's low maintenance cost, and it's significance in pvp had pretty much turned the economy stale and phased out other combat classes (beyond 1v1s). If SOE hadn't dealt the killing blow (NGE) to the game, we would most likely have had more negative memories today.

SWG just didn't function as a "permanent" playground, but the journey from A to Z was definitely cool.

I didn't play SWG so I can't comment on any of the specifics (and hence why I forgot to incude it in the list of class MMOs.

I don't think any specific case of adding, adjusting or removing a feature for balance purposes (or adjusting balance for that matter) would kill the nostalgia and sellability of any reboot.

For example if we were to reboot Asherons Call. Some pretty hefty decisions would have to be made about what features to include and at what point in the AC timeline do you begin the reboot.

The same with EQ. I believe people enjoy EQ's progression servers and accept as a matter of course, the differences the Devs are forced to introducce out of necessity (or lack of funding to be sure) to those servers as compared to the original.

 

  rissies

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/23/11
Posts: 162

8/28/12 8:01:49 PM#14
I think re-skins would only hold niche appeal. At least I hope so because I'd hate to see mmorpgs go the CoD route.
  alexanys1982

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/12/08
Posts: 276

WTB a sandbox mmo with WoW's polish.

8/28/12 8:17:41 PM#15
Originally posted by Serignuad

I just read that EA spent (estimated) 500 million dollars in royalty payments, marketing and development costs for SWTOR.

I'm guessing for 50 million they could simply have done a re-skinned "reboot" of SWG* and been wildly successful.

 

* I never played, but I'd guess a reboot of SWG pre CU or NGE, which-ever of the two caused the mass exodus.

 

Your common sense if offensive. They are too proud.

  alexanys1982

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/12/08
Posts: 276

WTB a sandbox mmo with WoW's polish.

8/28/12 8:22:31 PM#16
Originally posted by Serignuad
Originally posted by Loke666

It wouldnt work. We are not really the same people as we were back then and frankly do I think they could do all those games a lot better.

 

I obviously, disagree. :)

 

I realize we aren't the same people we were back then, but that's where the magic of nostalgia comes in. I dont think it can be over-estimated.

That and half the attraction of the idea is the (comparatively) low risk versus spending 200 million plus on an untested title.

 

Gog.com is making a decent living off making old computer games playable on modern machines. There is a reason for that. Great games + Nostalgia = still a lot of fun.

The same can be said for why people collect old toys or restore classic cars.

 

Take Sophia Loren, Brigette Bardot, Raquel Welch or Audrey Hepburn. Give then new graphic engines and the world would fall in love with them all over again. ;)

 

Dogs compared to my Marylin Monroe......dogs.

  grimfall

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/25/07
Posts: 1152

8/28/12 8:28:34 PM#17
Originally posted by alexanys1982
Originally posted by Serignuad
Originally posted by Loke666

It wouldnt work. We are not really the same people as we were back then and frankly do I think they could do all those games a lot better.

 

I obviously, disagree. :)

 

I realize we aren't the same people we were back then, but that's where the magic of nostalgia comes in. I dont think it can be over-estimated.

That and half the attraction of the idea is the (comparatively) low risk versus spending 200 million plus on an untested title.

 

Gog.com is making a decent living off making old computer games playable on modern machines. There is a reason for that. Great games + Nostalgia = still a lot of fun.

The same can be said for why people collect old toys or restore classic cars.

 

Take Sophia Loren, Brigette Bardot, Raquel Welch or Audrey Hepburn. Give then new graphic engines and the world would fall in love with them all over again. ;)

 

Dogs compared to my Marylin Monroe......dogs.

I went back last summer and played Everquest on one of the new progression servers, and it had me more addicted to any MMO since I first picked up WoW.   Unfortunately hackagon ruined it for me, but I was really enjoying my time there.

  DrunkWolf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/07/09
Posts: 1058

8/28/12 9:16:33 PM#18
Originally posted by logicwar
you had me at 1.

 This ^^^^^

  DrunkWolf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/07/09
Posts: 1058

8/28/12 9:21:10 PM#19
Originally posted by Purutzil
Originally posted by Serignuad
Originally posted by Purutzil
Because, if that happened, even if they were brand new today they would fail. None of the classics would do any good today, heck, I'd bet a lot of them would be considered failures no matter how much we loved them. 

And yet people are still playing them 13 years later.

Its called Nostalgia. It allows us to come back and play even the worst game just since when we use to play it, we found such joy in playing it. Its something humans have that will make us come back to watching movies over and over. 

 

Take a look at the movies. So many remakes have come out over time. I'll bet you someone who had seen the original will likely find preference in the original, while another who never was around for the original will claim the newer version was better in most cases.

 

Take a look at silent films. With sound being around, do you really feel like you can like a silent movie so much more then one with sound? 

 Nostalgia my arse, i play Asherons Call still because its hands down better than anything else i have tried.

sure the graphics arnt as good as all these new games, but the game play dominates all these carebear themparks that have come out the last 10 years.

  Serignuad

Novice Member

Joined: 1/19/05
Posts: 86

 
OP  8/29/12 12:15:47 PM#20
Originally posted by Purutzil
Originally posted by Serignuad
Originally posted by Purutzil
Because, if that happened, even if they were brand new today they would fail. None of the classics would do any good today, heck, I'd bet a lot of them would be considered failures no matter how much we loved them. 

And yet people are still playing them 13 years later.

Its called Nostalgia. It allows us to come back and play even the worst game just since when we use to play it, we found such joy in playing it. Its something humans have that will make us come back to watching movies over and over. 

 

Take a look at the movies. So many remakes have come out over time. I'll bet you someone who had seen the original will likely find preference in the original, while another who never was around for the original will claim the newer version was better in most cases.

 

Take a look at silent films. With sound being around, do you really feel like you can like a silent movie so much more then one with sound? 

 

I absolutely loved the remake of True Grit and 3:10 to Yuma and I payed Box Office prices and bought popcorn and a soda at their cash shop, I mean the  concession stand.

 

The fact that Hollywood has made a lot of money off remaking movies that whole generations have already seen (I had already watched the original True Grit and 3:10 to Yuma) seems like a bit of proof that there is real merit to the idea that people would pay to have these games re-skinned.

 

And at a fraction of the cost to develop, the "risk" would be corespondingly fractional.

 

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