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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » WOW Changed MMOs & GW2 Will Change MMOs

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61 posts found
  Galthram

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/20/10
Posts: 6

8/28/12 10:28:43 AM#41

All that I know is: I'm having a ton of fun in GW2 and I know for a fact that I haven't even scractched the game. So yeah, that's all that matters to me.

The game also has a lot more depth than many players realise. You gotta keep in mind that the lower levels are really simple so they can draw new players in. They're not targeting the existing MMO crowd but trying to bring players from other genres to it, just like WoW did back then and it's the sole reason for it's success.

If anyone doubt about it's depth go check the Wiki for attribute mechanics, conditions, boons and dungeons. Stuff that are really irrelevant early game but will have a huge impact on your build in late game.

GW2 also is a more laid back casual experience, it wasn't built to kill your social life and force you to give-up sleeping hours doing dungeons so you can progress. You can still do it, but it wans't designed with that in mind. GW2 devs are thinking outside the MMO market box, just like the guys from Riot Games did when designing League of Legends, and look where they are now: Most played online game in the world.

Sure, this can backfire, but at least they ARE trying to do something different.

Now, talking about Titan. Do you guys really think it'll be anything like WoW? It'll probably be even more casual than GW2, even more focused on bringing new customers to the genre. And even the Blizzard quality I could put in check like many others did, I won't even mention SC2 or WoW expansions, just look of what was done with Diablo 3. Also let me remind you guys that the Real Money Auction House is nothing but a huge test to perfect it to Titan.

  User Deleted
8/28/12 10:29:15 AM#42

GW2 is just wow with more focus on pvp....and no focus on gear..

 

I mean GW2 will change mmorpgs as much as warhammer online did...since they are basically the same game at heart.

 

 

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

8/28/12 10:32:41 AM#43
Originally posted by redman875

GW2 is just wow with more focus on pvp....and no focus on gear..

 

I mean GW2 will change mmorpgs as much as warhammer online did...since they are basically the same game at heart.

 

 

It amazes me the things people will say when they have no idea what they're talking about.

 

Oderint, dum metuant.

  muthax

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/15/05
Posts: 608

8/28/12 10:35:22 AM#44
I don't understand, are all the 'haters' blizz fanbois or there are more varities?
  Galthram

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/20/10
Posts: 6

8/28/12 10:40:58 AM#45
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by redman875

GW2 is just wow with more focus on pvp....and no focus on gear..

 

I mean GW2 will change mmorpgs as much as warhammer online did...since they are basically the same game at heart.

 

 

It amazes me the things people will say when they have no idea what they're talking about.

 

The thing is that people have absolutely no patience nowadays. They play an MMO just a couple of hours and think they saw everything about it.

When WoW launched if he took the same aproach to judge it he would be saying: WoW is just like Everquest 2, with more focus on Orcs and no focus on Elves. At least not the blonde ones.

  Robsolf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/21/06
Posts: 4048

Let go of my ears, I know what I'm doing!

8/28/12 10:42:02 AM#46
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by dynamicipftw
Please enlighten us: which of GW2's features will change MMOs?

More centaurs.

It's pretty cool how you can roll forward to avoid their charge, but then they pull a bizarre "side-slide 180" and come charging back at ya.  You can kinda see it on this video around 2:20 on the furthest right centaur, though there's a stupid tooltip in the way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSu_gCQVOH4

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19520

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

8/28/12 10:45:44 AM#47
Originally posted by MARTYB2K

Seriously, this is the first MMO since WOW launched over 7 years ago which will get really big. Here is why:

Very good game that's polished.

Very little technical problems.

Lots of good features from the start.

I predict over 5 million people will be playing soon. ArenaNET is onto a winner. Also it will effect the design of just about every MMO to come out in the coming years.

5 million (or more) will likely buy it, but will they be still playing it to any great extent 6 months down the road. 

That is the real quesiton now isn't it?

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
"People can do with their money what they want. But... that doesn't make it smart" - COORS
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  User Deleted
8/28/12 10:48:04 AM#48
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by redman875

GW2 is just wow with more focus on pvp....and no focus on gear..

 

I mean GW2 will change mmorpgs as much as warhammer online did...since they are basically the same game at heart.

 

 

It amazes me the things people will say when they have no idea what they're talking about.

 

Yeah thats why its fun posting in forums like this during the blind hype phase of a major wow-park.  

People refuse to accept the reality that theyve been sold yet another wow-park.  No matter how much these people clammor for a game not like wow they just cant resist the hype and buy in...happens over and over and over.

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

8/28/12 10:53:09 AM#49
Originally posted by redman875
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by redman875

GW2 is just wow with more focus on pvp....and no focus on gear..

 

I mean GW2 will change mmorpgs as much as warhammer online did...since they are basically the same game at heart.

 

 

It amazes me the things people will say when they have no idea what they're talking about.

 

Yeah thats why its fun posting in forums like this during the blind hype phase of a major wow-park.  

People refuse to accept the reality that theyve been sold yet another wow-park.  No matter how much these people clammor for a game not like wow they just cant resist the hype and buy in...happens over and over and over.

That's an interesting take, considering personal experience in the game so far indicates to me that you're basically full of crap. The PvE content so far is extensive, and I've just entered my third zone. The sad part is that even though I've completed two maps I know there's a lot of stuff I haven't seen in those maps. However I get so carried away by what the world throws at me that I forget, for example, to search for jumping puzzles or the like. So far, GW2 is showing itself to be the anti-WoW, which demonstrates that your statements are made purely in bloviation and not based on experience or anything resembling fact.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2565

8/28/12 11:02:54 AM#50
Originally posted by Mephster
GW2 is a theme park, it is built for the short tem. It won't change a thing. It will never ever have the impact WoW has.

AHH - WoW is a themepark also. GW1 has been in exsistance as long as WoW so what does that say about your opinion - it means nothing really.

 

WoW was once a big dog. It has not improved in 7 years and therefore is an also ran. Titan, as one person said, is just rumors and innuendo currently, so I see it not affecting anything. It seems Blizzard is resting on it's name, not innovating (see Diablo 3) which is just more of the same. The MMO crowd is looking for different options and GW2 gives that in spades.

 

Do not sell this game short.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  Knightblast

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/01/05
Posts: 1800

8/28/12 11:07:19 AM#51
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by MARTYB2K

Seriously, this is the first MMO since WOW launched over 7 years ago which will get really big. Here is why:

Very good game that's polished.

Very little technical problems.

Lots of good features from the start.

I predict over 5 million people will be playing soon. ArenaNET is onto a winner. Also it will effect the design of just about every MMO to come out in the coming years.

5 million (or more) will likely buy it, but will they be still playing it to any great extent 6 months down the road. 

That is the real quesiton now isn't it?

Not really.

The question posed by GW2 is whether it should matter if you have millions playing your game for months on end as long as you can sell millions of keys for the launch and for the expansion packs, and have enough of a population (not millions) to provide some incremental cash shop revenues.  In other words, it's challenging the fundamental assumptions of the MMO business model to date, which is that in order to succeed a game needs a robust population for months and years on end to keep paying subscription fees.  GW2 isn't based around that, so it's not really apt to judge it by the same metrics.  It's business metric is mostly key/box sales, and by that metric it has likely executed against its business model with a wild degree of success.

I think the question of the "impact on the MMO market" remains to be seen.  MMOs have long been the "El Dorado" of the gaming industry because they hold out the prospect of a degree of cash revenue smoothing that isn't generally available by the box-sales driven stream provided by the rest of the B2P games (SP and otherwise).  So GW2's model, if it changes the market perception in terms of what an acceptable business model is for MMOs, will make MMOs less interesting for many companies, because they will realise that (1) most of them aren't going to sell 5m+ boxes/keys (they know that well enough from the box sales experience they have outside the MMO space) and (2) if it's not offering the prospect of an ongoing cash revenue stream, it's not really "filling the role" in their product portfolio than an MMO typically does, and instead behaves more like a SP game does from the revenue perspective (especially now that SP games have DLCs in them now that function akin to cash shops).  

So, I think GW2 is really an enigma.  If it does move the MMO space away from P2P towards a B2P model, this will also make MMOs less of an El Dorado for publishers/developers than they have been seen since 2004.  At the same time, it could create a good deal of pressure to veer away from the P2P model, given that even with most P2P MMOs, most people only play them for a few months anyway, regardless of small content updates that come along periodically and are ostensibly funded by subscription fees -- just the nature of the competitive market today in gaming and the fact that people play a lot of non-MMO games as well.

  Sixpax

Novice Member

Joined: 7/28/05
Posts: 602

8/28/12 11:07:32 AM#52
Originally posted by redman875
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by redman875

GW2 is just wow with more focus on pvp....and no focus on gear..

 

I mean GW2 will change mmorpgs as much as warhammer online did...since they are basically the same game at heart.

 

 

It amazes me the things people will say when they have no idea what they're talking about.

 

Yeah thats why its fun posting in forums like this during the blind hype phase of a major wow-park.  

People refuse to accept the reality that theyve been sold yet another wow-park.  No matter how much these people clammor for a game not like wow they just cant resist the hype and buy in...happens over and over and over.

So basically what you're saying is you did resist the hype and didn't "buy in", meaning you didn't even play the game... yet somehow you know it's a wow-park.  How's that work exactly?

MMO games would be pretty cool if it weren't for the people.

  Robsolf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/21/06
Posts: 4048

Let go of my ears, I know what I'm doing!

8/28/12 11:25:06 AM#53
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by MARTYB2K

I predict over 5 million people will be playing soon. ArenaNET is onto a winner. Also it will effect the design of just about every MMO to come out in the coming years.

5 million (or more) will likely buy it, but will they be still playing it to any great extent 6 months down the road. 

That is the real quesiton now isn't it?

That's a tough call.  A scripted event is a far cry better than quest text; I don't think any sane person would deny that.  But at the end of the day they're still scripted events.  And even when the script branches are based on player actions, sooner or later, you'll have seen it all.

I suspect it will ultimately depend on the frequency and quality of Xpacs.  I'm optomistic, as it seems to me that the game's capabilities are almost endless.  No matter what, Anet should be very proud of this game.

  Deto123

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/02/08
Posts: 698

8/28/12 11:29:02 AM#54
Originally posted by Mephster
GW2 is a theme park, it is built for the short tem. It won't change a thing. It will never ever have the impact WoW has.

Bingo, and even though I don t like WoW, MOP will dwindle GW2 active player base alot. Then they ll release more info on Titan, and soon people will be all over the WoW train again. I m not going to , depending what Titan is, but it s the ebb and flow of most MMO gamers these days.

  sirphobos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/10/11
Posts: 614

8/28/12 11:30:28 AM#55
Can we wait for this game to have been out at least a week before we start declaring it game of the decade and saying it will change MMOs?
  Elijarh

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/06
Posts: 76

8/28/12 11:31:12 AM#56

I love Mmo's But im not playing GW2.. I don't know why Im not..just not. Im not a Hater or fan of anything , If I try and like I play.. But I have read too many mixed repsonses about GW2 to risk throwing 50euro's at a potential 1 month stand.

 

we'll see

 

:)

  User Deleted
8/28/12 11:35:18 AM#57

This is a distinct marketing advantage.  Anyone who buys this game will be counted and advertised as a player forever.  No sub means their account is always active and they are always able to log in and play.

I dont think 5 million is a good estimate.  If the 400k buyers post is accurate its actually experiencing sluggish sales...i mean AoC was able to get 1.4mil suckers off the bat and that game wasnt even finished.

If that 400k sales estimate is accurate, then i would expect 2mil in their count of boxes sold within a year if theres a good expansion in that timeframe.

I say that the expansion is vital because people are not going to want to play a game with no endgame "awesome special thempark ride excusivly for max level" for long.  People want some special and awesome event at the end for their hard work of causally playing a few weeks to get to endgame.  This game lacks that right now...and that may be by design to help their expansion sell.

 

  Emerwyn

Novice Member

Joined: 10/21/06
Posts: 77

Unliving.

8/28/12 11:42:16 AM#58
Originally posted by MARTYB2K

Very good game that's polished.

Very little technical problems.

Lots of good features from the start.

I predict over 5 million people will be playing soon. ArenaNET is onto a winner. Also it will effect the design of just about every MMO to come out in the coming years.

 

1. False. It's filled with bugs. Anyone that isn't a blind zealot can see that. The game is called Guild Wars and the Guild features don't even work. Could point out more obvious flaws, but that one is as ironic as symbolic.

2. False. Constant technical problems, constant server maintenance without prior announcement, constant login screen issues with people stuck hours spamming login button without being able to play at all, constant forum downage, constant 500-1000 ping (at least in European servers) even in the headstart where there weren't supposed to be that many players.

3. Up to each one's opinion. GW2 lacks open world PvP, which is distasteful, and a rollback of 10 years in the mmo genre. There are only 8 dungeons and they aren't working. The Auction House is still not working.

4. I predict a lot of people will play it due to the overhype that follows it, same as Diablo. Since we're predicting here, I predict that in 2 months 90% of the players will have reached top level and uninstalled it to gather dust next to Aion, LotRO, TSW, SW:TOR, etc.

 

All in all, this game is decent, but the biggest bluff in the history of gaming.

  RexNebular

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/05
Posts: 259

8/28/12 11:46:49 AM#59

Evolution of quest system - get rid of any fluff that could be placed in the quest giver's dialogue. Replace it with automated message: "Help X by doing this, this, this and this."

Evolution of combat system - get rid of mana/stamina/whatever.

If this is the direction mmos are going to take because of GW2, then I feel sad for the genre.

Looks like dumbing down your game is the only way to survive in the market.

I wonder what will get simplified next.

  Galthram

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/20/10
Posts: 6

8/28/12 12:40:15 PM#60

@Emerwyn: I don't really know from where you're getting all your info but:

1 - Me and my wife played the game this whole weekend and we haven't experienced a single game breaking bug. We did experience some minor bugs like receiving "Obstructed" messages when trying to hit something that wasn't clearly obstructed, wich was solved by repositioning or minor pathfinding bugs withNPCs that were following you getting stuck on terrain, wich could be easily solved by forcing them to follow you out of the piece of tree or whatever that was holding them. You know, stuff that you see in games even years after it's realease. Nothing major. And you really didn't expect a game launch, specially a MMO launch, completely free of bugs right?

2 - Saturday morning we actually got stuck trying to login for around 5 minutes and there was lag but it was the games launch. We played for a couple of hours and when we loged in during the afternoon we didn't have any problem at all and haven't had any problems since. Haven't experienced much downtime, maybe one or two hours summing all up. And again, this is the launch of a highly hyped MMO, what did you expect? Myself I'd rather have they fix everything as soon as possible, crashing the server without warning for a couple of minutes, than leaving the game full of problems for one or two weeks so they can fix it all in a 24 hour maintenance.

3 - World PvP? Well, I do like World PvP but when was the last time you saw one that was masterfully executed like Dark Age of Camelot or EvE Online? Sure, WoW has World PvP but it pretty much consists of level 85 players griefing low level players leveling zones. Besides the game's lore is about all the races of Tyria setting their differences aside and banding together to fight the Dragons return. There are no enemy factions in the game. Maybe they could do something where Guild could battle one another just for fun, but them people would complan it's pointless and poorly done and we all know that WOULD happen. So I guess they just rather scrap it and to it in a controlled enviroment (WvW) than just doing for the sake of having it. To be really honest here while you say it's a rollback of 10 years of the MMO genre I'd say it's the companies getting tired of spending a ton of time and resources that could be spent to improve other areas of the game, with something that people chant about but never actually like the results. One HUGE example is the difficulty of Diablo 3, people demanded a ridiculously hard experience and Blizzard gave them, what was the result? People complaining the game is too hard.

Last time I checked the Auction House was really broken and they 

4 - Well, that's your opinion and only time will tell, no use on trying to argue about it.

@RexNebular: You do know that if you talk to NPCs around the Heart Events they'll give you full background about what you have to do, right? You also know that Dynamic Events just don't POP-UP, before NPCs triggering them they'll be in their house talking about the subject and if you have the patience you can see everything unfold from the very beggining? GW2 just give you the OPTION to ignore all that and just do the quest, like 90% of the MMO crowd do anyway.

Just because the game doesn't have Mana or Stamina doesn't mean there are no resources or skill manegement at all. Just because you don't have to worry about attributes from the get go doesn't mean they won't be important on higher levels. In fact that's how every game should be, easy to play in the beggining and deep at the end.

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