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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Good...until combat. Dumbed down so much.

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144 posts found
  alf2ooo

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/31/08
Posts: 144

8/28/12 2:44:17 AM#81
Ignorance is a bliss.
  impiro

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/06/09
Posts: 214

8/28/12 2:45:16 AM#82
Originally posted by Nitth

 



 

Your saying the encounters are changed, but the actual combat mechanics stays the same.
If you have more health than the mobs, You win.

Yes, the mechanics stay the same mostly. But more mechanics and variables are added. New abilities are unlocked and need to be used strategicly. You really have to use skills in a much different manner when you leave the starter zone. Hence, the combat experience changes and isn't as "dumbed down" and you make it out to be.

As for this 1 button mashing business, I'm not saying it wouldn't be hard, Im just saying if someone wanted to do that it would be plausible under certain circumstances.

Now what does this even mean?

 

I think people are better of ignoring you. You clearly havn't played the game or never intended to give it a chance past lvl 10. Right now you are arguing on your intuition against people who have actually experienced it. And yet, you claim your intuitions are right and peoples experiences are wrong.

 

 

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3260

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

8/28/12 2:46:06 AM#83


Originally posted by impiro

Originally posted by Nitth ------------- All this aside, I love complex combat systems. - just don't believe that combat drasticly changes from the first 10 hours to 100 hours.
I dont even..... are you serious? You realize that after level 10 you inlock 3 new ability slots, and you have to spent skill points to get certain abilities. Trust me, after lvl 10-ish (the next zone) all your abilities have to be used and USED AT THE RIGHT TIME that is. The mobs in the starting area do less dmg and have less abilities so that people can learn the basics of GW2's combat. But after that you really have to time your abilities if you want to survive even in 1vs1 encounters.


You can only push ONE ABILITY AT A TIME. you just get more.
Skills yes a new mechanic but they are quickly introduced and last for the remainder of the game!


The mechanics of the combat may not drastically change, the way it played does. Ofcourse the mechanics do not change complete after the starter zone. But more variables are added to the mix and the way it is executed differs a lot

Im not disputing that you will face new and sometimes more challenging encounters but the actual mechanics of combat don't change significantly.


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  User Deleted
8/28/12 2:46:19 AM#84
Originally posted by TheScavenger

yeah, but I only used DCU has a example because it was the most dumbed down MMO I ever played. GW2 isn't nearly that bad, but combat is sure worse.

 

Every MMO, even the most dumbed down MMO, has stamina/mana. You can make it regen fast or something...but at least make it where you aren't standing still and hitting the 1 key, over and over and over.

 

(edit: Small typo fix)

1) I haven't played a game where mana was an issue for skill spamming since EQ1 and early days of EQ2. Vanguard still has it, but thats about it, and all of those games were fine in groups because of support classes. Since GW2 has no support classes, it has no need for mana.

2) Everything is controlled by cooldowns. Thieves and warriors still need to build points to spend, but for the most part it is about good use of cooldowns.

3) The combat is far more intuitive and reactive than other games in the genre. If you think its just a spamfest then chances are that you havent made it very far in the game. Go try and spam everything on cooldown in PvP and see how far that gets you.

  gessekai332

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/31/07
Posts: 851

8/28/12 2:46:26 AM#85
try pressing 1 over and over in sPvP see what happens.

Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)

  shiner421

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/26/07
Posts: 44

8/28/12 2:48:45 AM#86
Originally posted by TheScavenger

Combat feels more dumbed down than it was in DCU.

 

Why? It isn't because you aren't standing still and using strategic key pressing (which is mentally challenging, and why I like it so much)...but...

 

Even DCU (DC Universe) had mana and stamina. In GW2...what happened to the stamina and mana bar? You press the one key over and over and over...there is no strategy. It doesn't matter what weapon(s) I have equipped, I just kill everything by pressing one key. On top of that, unlike other MMOs (like DCU) where this is possible...I don't even have to worry about stamina or mana. Which EVERY MMO has. This isn't even a real MMO. There is just no strategy to the combat. It has been dumbed down so much.

 

Anyone else find they really miss the stamina/mana bar? At least that would add strategy, instead of hitting the one key repeatedly.

Soudns to me like you havent played the game yet. I completely disagree with what your saying, wholeheartedly. So far from my experience, if you only use 1 key in combat, not only do you not know what you are doing, but no way will you survive in higher level areas doing that. This game requires intelligent use of your skills and knowing when / where to use them, using your skills to produce combo effects with other classes, i find combat to be far and above most other MMO's to date.

Due to this I love EVERY clas sin the game, and hope to someday have an 80 of every class. I havent been playing MMO's since I left EQ2 a couple years ago, but I am once again hooked.

  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

8/28/12 2:52:51 AM#87
Originally posted by Nitth

 


Originally posted by heartless
I'm not shifting gears. I've been saying this since the very beginning. Combat is more difficult in higher level zones. Mobs, even regular ones, have more health, crowd control and do more damage and very often come in groups. For example, 1 attack from an normal ettin takes away about 1/3 of my thief's HP. They also have a pretty lengthy knockdown as well. Now imagine trying to fight 2 or 3 of them at a time. Either way, champions and bosses would be impossible to kill with what you're suggesting. Even the higher level ones in the 1-15 zones.

 

As far as what can and will work, I think you actually need to make it to those zones before you can make that determination. If encounters were so easy that a few dodges and self heals was all that was required, no one would be dying and yet, higher level zones = corpses everywere.


 

Your saying the encounters are changed, but the actual combat mechanics stays the same.
If you have more health than the mobs, You win.

As for this 1 button mashing business, I'm not saying it wouldn't be hard, Im just saying if someone wanted to do that it would be plausible under certain circumstances.

 

Combat mechanics don't change? That's basically true for any game. In TSW combat mechanics don't change. In WoW combat mechanics don't change. In EVE combat mechanics don't change.

What changes is the difficulty of the encounters and what you're required to do to defeat them. Where as in the first few levels it was enough to just spam auto attack or button mash, now you have to save the dazes and stuns for when you actually need them.

Anything can be plausible under certain circumstances. Doesn't mean that those circumstances readly present themselves.

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3260

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

8/28/12 2:54:39 AM#88


Originally posted by impiro
As for this 1 button mashing business, I'm not saying it wouldn't be hard, Im just saying if someone wanted to do that it would be plausible under certain circumstances.Now what does this even mean?
 

It means in certain times like in a group de or a selected encounter you probably could get away with just mashing 1. (while mitigating damage)


I think people are better of ignoring you. You clearly havn't played the game or never intended to give it a chance past lvl 10. Right now you are arguing on your intuition against people who have actually experienced it. And yet, you claim your intuitions are right and peoples experiences are wrong.

You are so nieve. I have played guild wars 2. Thanks for that personal attack with no substance to support it. its also insulting that you say i should be ignored because i have a view or opion considered negative, diffrent or against guildwars community standards.

i'm not saying peoples experiences are wrong i'm just saying experiences can differ. from "how it should be played" - which is a stupid psychology because it should be how YOU want to play.


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  Meowhead

Tipster

Joined: 1/31/09
Posts: 3728

8/28/12 2:55:31 AM#89
Originally posted by Nitth

Your saying the encounters are changed, but the actual combat mechanics stays the same.
If you have more health than the mobs, You win.

As for this 1 button mashing business, I'm not saying it wouldn't be hard, Im just saying if someone wanted to do that it would be plausible under certain circumstances.

 

 Following that logic, that applies to every MMORPG ever.

I mean... just hit auto-attack and have more health than the mobs, and you win.

Hell, that sums up fighting games (Hit middle kick and have more health than enemy, you win), FPS games (Shoot your pistol, have more health than enemy), chess (Take pieces, keep more pieces than enemy), basketball (Shoot 2 pointers, keep more points than other team)...

I think you've figured out the basic mechanic to life!

You should write a book. :)

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3260

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

8/28/12 2:55:32 AM#90


Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by Nitth  

Originally posted by heartless I'm not shifting gears. I've been saying this since the very beginning. Combat is more difficult in higher level zones. Mobs, even regular ones, have more health, crowd control and do more damage and very often come in groups. For example, 1 attack from an normal ettin takes away about 1/3 of my thief's HP. They also have a pretty lengthy knockdown as well. Now imagine trying to fight 2 or 3 of them at a time. Either way, champions and bosses would be impossible to kill with what you're suggesting. Even the higher level ones in the 1-15 zones.   As far as what can and will work, I think you actually need to make it to those zones before you can make that determination. If encounters were so easy that a few dodges and self heals was all that was required, no one would be dying and yet, higher level zones = corpses everywere.
  Your saying the encounters are changed, but the actual combat mechanics stays the same. If you have more health than the mobs, You win. As for this 1 button mashing business, I'm not saying it wouldn't be hard, Im just saying if someone wanted to do that it would be plausible under certain circumstances.  
Combat mechanics don't change? That's basically true for any game. In TSW combat mechanics don't change. In WoW combat mechanics don't change. In EVE combat mechanics don't change.

What changes is the difficulty of the encounters and what you're required to do to defeat them. Where as in the first few levels it was enough to just spam auto attack or button mash, now you have to save the dazes and stuns for when you actually need them.

Anything can be plausible under certain circumstances. Doesn't mean that those circumstances readly present themselves.


Finally we mostly agree heartless, We have to celebrate!


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  Zezda

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 707

8/28/12 3:03:24 AM#91
Originally posted by Nitth

 


Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by Nitth  

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by TheScavenger

Originally posted by heartless OP, what is the highest level character you have?
I got to level 10, before realizing I didn't like the combat at all. Usually I know if I like combat or the game within 10 levels of a MMO.   Like in WoW, I loved the combat right off the bat. Got pets right in the beginning as a hunter and warlock. Paladin smashed everything in its path right at level 1. Warrior rushed enemiees. And it only became better when there was so many abilities just at level 10. Like as a warrior at level 10, I had so many abilities to choose from.   Or a better example (because its newer). At level 1 as a Jedi Consular in SWTOR...I had so many amazing abilities (comparitevly), and just after the first area...I had so much strategy in the combat. There wasn't just pressing one key over and over.   Not to say GW2 is bad and I don't like it. Just combat isn't its strong suit. Guild Wars (the first one) was a lot better, even if it wasn't filled with many hotbars of abilities.
In other words you're basing your opinion on combat during the tutorial phase.
  Yeah, could not see you setting that argument up a mile away. btw. Your out of the "tutorial phase by lvl 2. rest is the GAME.
No, the first zone is actually a tutorial zone. It's used to introduce you to how the game functions. The mobs in the first zone are incredibly easy and can be killed with autoattack. Once you get closer to the end of the zone, that's when things get interesting. And good luck trying to kill things with autoattack when you're level 20+.

 

Nice try though.


 

Bullshit. After you leave the real 'tutorial zone' you can move 'freely' about the world and visit other areas.

Pure nonsense the game 'starts at 20'.

I'm level 42 right now, in Blazeridge Steppes.

Combat gets progressively harder as you level up. It starts assuming you know how to CC mobs, you know to move out of the way of certain attacks and that you know when to use range and when to melee. As the level increases so does the general skill requirement. You can make up for it somewhat with having exceptionally good items but that will only get you so far when you're trying to fight something like 3 or 4 Shadow Imp's when they can each hit you for 60% of your health with a single attack.

The first zone is basically there as an introductory stage to get you to grips with the games mechanics. As you get past it you'll need to start making better decisions with your character or you'll find yourself in the downed state a lot. I'm not saying it's hard, I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but it certainly does get harder as you level.

Think I'm kidding? Add me, Korgath.5097

  SysFail

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/05
Posts: 377

8/28/12 3:04:15 AM#92

I've actually heard good things about the games combat from fellow Darkfall players, which has surprised me as DF has by far the fastest, skill based combat of any MMO.

The general opinon being its not just another tab based game like WoW. This was enough for me to order today, despite my dislike of instances.

  grapevine

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/04
Posts: 1938

8/28/12 3:04:31 AM#93
Originally posted by teakbois

The number of people I've revived in the last two days seems to indicate combat isnt as dumbed down as op likes to think it is.

 

I'm finding they are usually members of the zerg squad.  1 man vs 10, "charge".

 

I still enjoy the combat, but the OP is right.  It's extremely simple and dumbed down.   Just need to learn to move, as attacks can be easily dodged, and break los against range.

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3260

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

8/28/12 3:08:58 AM#94


Originally posted by Zezda

Originally posted by Nitth  

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by Nitth  

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by TheScavenger

Originally posted by heartless OP, what is the highest level character you have?
I got to level 10, before realizing I didn't like the combat at all. Usually I know if I like combat or the game within 10 levels of a MMO.   Like in WoW, I loved the combat right off the bat. Got pets right in the beginning as a hunter and warlock. Paladin smashed everything in its path right at level 1. Warrior rushed enemiees. And it only became better when there was so many abilities just at level 10. Like as a warrior at level 10, I had so many abilities to choose from.   Or a better example (because its newer). At level 1 as a Jedi Consular in SWTOR...I had so many amazing abilities (comparitevly), and just after the first area...I had so much strategy in the combat. There wasn't just pressing one key over and over.   Not to say GW2 is bad and I don't like it. Just combat isn't its strong suit. Guild Wars (the first one) was a lot better, even if it wasn't filled with many hotbars of abilities.
In other words you're basing your opinion on combat during the tutorial phase.
  Yeah, could not see you setting that argument up a mile away. btw. Your out of the "tutorial phase by lvl 2. rest is the GAME.
No, the first zone is actually a tutorial zone. It's used to introduce you to how the game functions. The mobs in the first zone are incredibly easy and can be killed with autoattack. Once you get closer to the end of the zone, that's when things get interesting. And good luck trying to kill things with autoattack when you're level 20+.   Nice try though.
  Bullshit. After you leave the real 'tutorial zone' you can move 'freely' about the world and visit other areas. Pure nonsense the game 'starts at 20'.
I'm level 42 right now, in Blazeridge Steppes.

Combat gets progressively harder as you level up. It starts assuming you know how to CC mobs, you know to move out of the way of certain attacks and that you know when to use range and when to melee. As the level increases so does the general skill requirement. You can make up for it somewhat with having exceptionally good items but that will only get you so far when you're trying to fight something like 3 or 4 Shadow Imp's when they can each hit you for 60% of your health with a single attack.

The first zone is basically there as an introductory stage to get you to grips with the games mechanics. As you get past it you'll need to start making better decisions with your character or you'll find yourself in the downed state a lot. I'm not saying it's hard, I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but it certainly does get harder as you level.

Think I'm kidding? Add me, Korgath.5097


Yes, It would seem logical the games encouters would get harder as your progress thoough zones.

But this particular argument "the game starts at 20" or some literal number is like i said ridiculous.


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  Angier2758

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/09
Posts: 1060

8/28/12 3:10:06 AM#95

Are you guys really that inept or are you baiting us?

 

Anyone saying this is just mashing buttons is probabaly "special".

 

 

  Zezda

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 707

8/28/12 3:10:13 AM#96
Originally posted by Nitth

 


Originally posted by Zezda

Originally posted by Nitth  

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by Nitth  

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by TheScavenger

Originally posted by heartless OP, what is the highest level character you have?
I got to level 10, before realizing I didn't like the combat at all. Usually I know if I like combat or the game within 10 levels of a MMO.   Like in WoW, I loved the combat right off the bat. Got pets right in the beginning as a hunter and warlock. Paladin smashed everything in its path right at level 1. Warrior rushed enemiees. And it only became better when there was so many abilities just at level 10. Like as a warrior at level 10, I had so many abilities to choose from.   Or a better example (because its newer). At level 1 as a Jedi Consular in SWTOR...I had so many amazing abilities (comparitevly), and just after the first area...I had so much strategy in the combat. There wasn't just pressing one key over and over.   Not to say GW2 is bad and I don't like it. Just combat isn't its strong suit. Guild Wars (the first one) was a lot better, even if it wasn't filled with many hotbars of abilities.
In other words you're basing your opinion on combat during the tutorial phase.
  Yeah, could not see you setting that argument up a mile away. btw. Your out of the "tutorial phase by lvl 2. rest is the GAME.
No, the first zone is actually a tutorial zone. It's used to introduce you to how the game functions. The mobs in the first zone are incredibly easy and can be killed with autoattack. Once you get closer to the end of the zone, that's when things get interesting. And good luck trying to kill things with autoattack when you're level 20+.   Nice try though.
  Bullshit. After you leave the real 'tutorial zone' you can move 'freely' about the world and visit other areas. Pure nonsense the game 'starts at 20'.
I'm level 42 right now, in Blazeridge Steppes.

 

Combat gets progressively harder as you level up. It starts assuming you know how to CC mobs, you know to move out of the way of certain attacks and that you know when to use range and when to melee. As the level increases so does the general skill requirement. You can make up for it somewhat with having exceptionally good items but that will only get you so far when you're trying to fight something like 3 or 4 Shadow Imp's when they can each hit you for 60% of your health with a single attack.

The first zone is basically there as an introductory stage to get you to grips with the games mechanics. As you get past it you'll need to start making better decisions with your character or you'll find yourself in the downed state a lot. I'm not saying it's hard, I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but it certainly does get harder as you level.

Think I'm kidding? Add me, Korgath.5097


 

Yes, It would seem logical the games encouters would get harder as your progress thoough zones.

But this particular argument "the game starts at 20" some some literal number is like i said ridiculous.

Not really, level 15-17 is the end of the first zone and the second zone doesn't start really kicking up in difficulty until the latter half which is 20-25.

  Teh_Axi

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/08
Posts: 405

8/28/12 3:11:07 AM#97

GW2 is not about doing some canned rotation of ablities, its about positioning, reaction and timing. Its obviously not going to be everyone cup of tea, especially those that have only ever played MMOs. GW2 might not give you 3 action bars of worthless skills like most MMOs but it does still have depth too it. 

  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5399

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

8/28/12 3:11:58 AM#98
Originally posted by TheScavenger

Combat feels more dumbed down than it was in DCU.

 

Why? It isn't because you aren't standing still and using strategic key pressing (which is mentally challenging, and why I like it so much)...but...

 

if this wasnt the reason of your post, you wouldnt say this.....

This is not DCU and this combat feels a lot better and smoother than DCU. Honestly i havent seen a combat more fun in mmo in ages. After experiencing how fluid and nicely done combat is while moving around, i say static combat sux. Dont think ill play an mmo again without smooth moving combat.

My endgame begins with character creation and ends with a new mmorpg

  Angier2758

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/09
Posts: 1060

8/28/12 3:12:00 AM#99
Originally posted by SysFail

I've actually heard good things about the games combat from fellow Darkfall players, which has surprised me as DF has by far the fastest, skill based combat of any MMO.

The general opinon being its not just another tab based game like WoW. This was enough for me to order today, despite my dislike of instances.

This forum has a lot of "special" folks....

 

Like half this thread is just people BSing.

  wowfan1996

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/09
Posts: 741

8/28/12 3:12:26 AM#100
Originally posted by Zezda
The first zone is basically there as an introductory stage to get you to grips with the games mechanics. As you get past it you'll need to start making better decisions with your character or you'll find yourself in the downed state a lot. I'm not saying it's hard, I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but it certainly does get harder as you level.

Although I'm only L16 (job takes too much time, couldn't play at all yesterday) I can confirm this. Combat is very easy early on, I'd even say somewhat misleadingly easy. Around level 10 you start meeting harder mobs that you can't always just auto-attack to death. About L15 you need to know when to dodge and how to kite and you need to have at least some basic rotation for melee situations.

MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).

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