also.. if anyone missed it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_Online_2

I wouldn't trust EA/Mythic to even roll over and die properly.  As good as UO was in the day, as great the memories, let it live as an icon and build something new in its vein.  Sadly everything that made UO good and special is anathema to the majority of modern gamers.

Hordcore leveling curve? Vanguard is 8x easier to level adventuring than at launch, people still whine about how slow and grindy it is. The days of taking 3-4 months of heavy play to cap level have become the WoW'ified 2-3 weeks to solo to cap.

Gear and Cash grinds? Replaced with cash shops and Monty Haul mob drops.

Gah...

Originally posted by tawess

also.. if anyone missed it

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_Online_2

There were, iirc, 3 attempts to do UO2. All met a sad fate long before launch.

Originally posted by tawess

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Originally posted by tawess

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Originally posted by tawess

There is no market for a game like the original game

There's no market for WoW clones either, but that didn't stop every MMO company from making one or two for the last 7 years. There's probably a much MUCH better chance of making a profit from UO2 than there ever was with SWTOR. Its uncontested.

Actually, in the strictest sense of the word there was a HUGE market for WOW clones, at least from a market reserach pov. Expecially before it was clear if WoW was the odd duckling or the new norm. Ofc today we know that it was the odd duckling. But think of this, if nobody manages to pinch a healthy amount of players from a stack of about lets say 3-4 million (the WoW stock of US and EU) How is anyone going to pinch a healthy stock from a pool of players that is 1/10 at best and if we limit our sefl to the source material (WoW vs UO) not even a fraction.

 

Because the WoW market is entirely different from the rest of the market. We know the market exists for hardcore sandbox games. We know that number is AT LEAST a million strong (bigger than the majority of modern day MMO subscription rates). We also know that that genre is almost completely untapped. UNLIKE WOW'S MARKET which is already tapped by WoW, and the 7 WoW clones from AAA companies, and the 20 WoW clones from little companies peeling off the scraps.

We KNOW WoW is an outlier, we KNOW sandbox MMOs aren't.

Who are we and what numbers are you qouting... Afaik there is ONE sandbox that have come out since UO that was not a horrid mess or the very defenition of a niche game. And i am not so sure Eve's players will leave it to go play in the new UO2.

 

And 1 mil users for sandbox is nothing if you compare it to the total market of the themepark.

 

I am not saying that it will fail.. i am just saying it makes little sense from a investor PoV.

I think those numbers were made up, or pulled out of some dark place.    The only concrete argument I could make for them would be the number of people who have signed up for Day Z.   But that includes a significant number of FPS-heads who'd probably not care about or add much to a sandboxy game.

Sandbox fans overestimate their numbers and underestimate the difficulty of making such a game now, imo.   If a developer didn't overblow their expenses, and had realistic expectations, it should be doable though.   

Originally posted by maplestone

I, like many others, have lots of nostalgia for the old place, but I still feel drained from the old flamewars.

The community can't decide on what UO is ... the secret sauce is different for everyone... but how can I support a theoretical sequel when I can't imagine getting more than handful of people to agree on any one design?

 

That is kinda what happens when in every game, there is a great demand for a ´classic server´..  everyone picks a different point in time to go back to.

For me, the game wasn´t so great when there was only full pvp.  It was exciting and fun.. but it felt like a game I played for 20 mins.   Once they created Trammel and allowed players to relax and ´live in a world´..  It felt like an amazing, open game with a vibrant economy and community.   You could literally get lost in the world for hours and hours.  When most of your time was spent fending yourself from that naked theif who you could kill hundreds of times and never get anything.. but yet that 1 in 100 time he got away with you he got something great.

The funny thing is.  I wonder if people even know that for like the first 4 years of UO, there was not a single quest!  None.. there was nothing that told you to go somewhere.... there was no reason to crawl a dungeon...  nothing.  Just spawn points.

I think the first quest I remember was a witch (something about a cauldren).  Then they did those mass crafting things (BODS) that were kinda like a quest for crafters.

For me, the best time was probably the year right before AOS was released.   You had all the ´new´crafting stuff in like.  The game died (for me) with AOS because for the first time, monster drops just dwarfed anything you could craft.  The entire economy turned from crafting based to a diablo type drop system.   the only way to keep my mall stocked was to grind balrons instead of crafting.

Originally posted by tawess

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Originally posted by tawess

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Originally posted by tawess

There is no market for a game like the original game

There's no market for WoW clones either, but that didn't stop every MMO company from making one or two for the last 7 years. There's probably a much MUCH better chance of making a profit from UO2 than there ever was with SWTOR. Its uncontested.

Actually, in the strictest sense of the word there was a HUGE market for WOW clones, at least from a market reserach pov. Expecially before it was clear if WoW was the odd duckling or the new norm. Ofc today we know that it was the odd duckling. But think of this, if nobody manages to pinch a healthy amount of players from a stack of about lets say 3-4 million (the WoW stock of US and EU) How is anyone going to pinch a healthy stock from a pool of players that is 1/10 at best and if we limit our sefl to the source material (WoW vs UO) not even a fraction.

 

Because the WoW market is entirely different from the rest of the market. We know the market exists for hardcore sandbox games. We know that number is AT LEAST a million strong (bigger than the majority of modern day MMO subscription rates). We also know that that genre is almost completely untapped. UNLIKE WOW'S MARKET which is already tapped by WoW, and the 7 WoW clones from AAA companies, and the 20 WoW clones from little companies peeling off the scraps.

We KNOW WoW is an outlier, we KNOW sandbox MMOs aren't.

Who are we and what numbers are you qouting... Afaik there is ONE sandbox that have come out since UO that was not a horrid mess or the very defenition of a niche game. And i am not so sure Eve's players will leave it to go play in the new UO2.

 

And 1 mil users for sandbox is nothing if you compare it to the total market of the themepark.

Actually, 1 million steady subs would be over double what the most successful themepark MMO outside of WoW is reeling in. The themepark market is oversaturated, you don't seem to understand basic economics.

UO, Eve, SWG, all huge games, and sandbox. The market for these games is almost completely uncontested

Actually, 1 million steady subs would be over double what the most successful themepark MMO outside of WoW is reeling in. The themepark market is oversaturated, you don't seem to understand basic economics.

UO, Eve, SWG, all huge games, and sandbox. The market for these games is almost completely uncontested"

Yes...but why should Eve's players start playing a FANTASY game... Most of them seems pretty adamant on the whole free-form space thing IIRC... SWG's fans are not a particularly good bet either as the setting was what drew  a large chunk of them in to the game. And UO have what... 30K-40K users left.

You can simply not guarantee the all those players you call upon would play  the game. And even if they do 1 mil might beat out one Themepark.. But putting all the themeparks together(and i can do that since you lumped all the decent sandboxes together)  and you have a fart in space revenue wise.

Ofc you could make a Sci-Fi Ultima Online set in some far flung future, that might get some SWG and Eve vets playing it but i still do not know where you get your numbers from... This (in your mind) sureshot playerbase of 1 mil comes from where?

Originally posted by tawess
"

Actually, 1 million steady subs would be over double what the most successful themepark MMO outside of WoW is reeling in. The themepark market is oversaturated, you don't seem to understand basic economics.

UO, Eve, SWG, all huge games, and sandbox. The market for these games is almost completely uncontested"

 

Yes...but why should Eve's players start playing a FANTASY game... Most of them seems pretty adamant on the whole free-form space thing IIRC... SWG's fans are not a particularly good bet either as the setting was what drew  a large chunk of them in to the game. And UO have what... 30K-40K users left.

 

You can simply not guarantee the all those players you call upon would play  the game. And even if they do 1 mil might beat out one Themepark.. But putting all the themeparks together(and i can do that since you lumped all the decent sandboxes together)  and you have a fart in space revenue wise.

 

Ofc you could make a Sci-Fi Ultima Online set in some far flung future, that might get some SWG and Eve vets playing it but i still do not know where you get your numbers from... This (in your mind) sureshot playerbase of 1 mil comes from where?

It comes from the fact that there are numerous people out there, who love UO but aren't playing UO. Who would love to try a new, fresh, Ultima Online 2. It isn't just about transitioning who is currently playing UO or sandbox players.

I, like most of the posters here, could never support another EA backed MMO, much less a sequel to UO2.

Yes, EA is a soulless marketing machine that butchers IPs and development houses, but more importantly THEY MAKE BAD GAMES. 

That is all

I'd rather have them cut loose from EA and fire up a kickstarter.

Untill then you will not shut up take my money.

Originally posted by Grixxitt

I, like most of the posters here, could never support another EA backed MMO, much less a sequel to UO2.

 

Yes, EA is a soulless marketing machine that butchers IPs and development houses, but more importantly THEY MAKE BAD GAMES. 

 

 

 

That is all

Not all of them.

Dead Space 1 & 2 are good games.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Grixxitt

I, like most of the posters here, could never support another EA backed MMO, much less a sequel to UO2.

 

Yes, EA is a soulless marketing machine that butchers IPs and development houses, but more importantly THEY MAKE BAD GAMES. 

 

 

 

That is all

Not all of them.

Dead Space 1 & 2 are good games.

You mention those games every time there is an EA discussion, as if that somehow makes their games less terrible, or my statement somehow invalid.

The fact that those 2 games make such a small percentage of the games EA has done in house or published in the last few years should point more towards EA simply not being involved in the creative process or simply not figuring out a way to make said games suck than anything else. 

Loved UO played for Years on Lake Superior.

I dont think Mythic could do a good UO2. After War and SWTOR I will avoid any and all EA MMOs like the plague.

Originally posted by tawess
"

Actually, 1 million steady subs would be over double what the most successful themepark MMO outside of WoW is reeling in. The themepark market is oversaturated, you don't seem to understand basic economics.

UO, Eve, SWG, all huge games, and sandbox. The market for these games is almost completely uncontested"

 

Yes...but why should Eve's players start playing a FANTASY game... Most of them seems pretty adamant on the whole free-form space thing IIRC... SWG's fans are not a particularly good bet either as the setting was what drew  a large chunk of them in to the game. And UO have what... 30K-40K users left.

Most people I know played those games because they were sandbox games, not because of the setting. and UO has 30k left because EA did their best to ruin the game over 7 years ago, same with Dark Age of Camelot. The oldschool open ended MMO market is HUGE, there is no denying that. There are millions of gamers out there waiting for a more hardcore MMO experience.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Grixxitt

I, like most of the posters here, could never support another EA backed MMO, much less a sequel to UO2.

 

Yes, EA is a soulless marketing machine that butchers IPs and development houses, but more importantly THEY MAKE BAD GAMES. 

 

 

 

That is all

Not all of them.

Dead Space 1 & 2 are good games.

Dead Space 1 was a decent game. DS2 was borderline boring action game.

I don't consider any company under the EA banner to be capable of developing a solid, sandbox title. Especially when one takes into consideration how badly they have ruined there own themepark mmorpgs.

I have zero confidence that they would make a quality product worthy of the IP.

No, you won't be getting my support.