Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Reizla
I think BioWare/EA have fully given up on SWTOR already :( Sad I'd say, because with a major player like GW2 they really should do their best to compete with it...

I don't think they have fully given up but yeah, they are probably trying to cut their losses as much as possible now that they realise that the boat is slowly sinking.

I wouldn't describe declaring your P2P flagship the first proactively converted FTP submersible slowly sinking.

most players who still playing TOR are SW or sci fi fans,they don't care for one more  fatasy mmo on market

Originally posted by tiefighter25

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Reizla
I think BioWare/EA have fully given up on SWTOR already :( Sad I'd say, because with a major player like GW2 they really should do their best to compete with it...

I don't think they have fully given up but yeah, they are probably trying to cut their losses as much as possible now that they realise that the boat is slowly sinking.

I wouldn't describe declaring your P2P flagship the first proactively converted FTP submersible slowly sinking.

Well it was slowly sinking before it went F2P. Now how it fares as F2P is anyone's guess, but mine would be that it will survive for quite a while, just like STO. However, it will never be among the top MMORPGs out there.

swg was a much better starwars game than swtor .

swtor   was a step back what racees there was all look the same, in swg they were much better more choice and yesyou could play wookie from the start :).

swg space combat was great , swtor was lacking.

but to me swg was a far better game than swtor will ever be.

Originally posted by Souldrainer
That said, a large number of their fair weather fans have jumped over to Tera and TSW by now... so GW2 probably won't impact SWTOR.

This is the same type of dillusional and arrogant stance that the developers of SWTOR have. 

Though, I agree on one thing.  They shouldn't be worrying about GW2 or trying to compete with GW2.  They need all of their focus on trying to fix SWTOR.  Go look at the thread about why people left SWTOR and realize nothing has changed yet and just going F2P won't make much of any difference at all for the majority of people who left the game.

Those "fair weather" fans didn't leave strictly because of other games.  They left because the game is bad.

Originally posted by paroxysm

Originally posted by Souldrainer
That said, a large number of their fair weather fans have jumped over to Tera and TSW by now... so GW2 probably won't impact SWTOR.

This is the same type of dillusional and arrogant stance that the developers of SWTOR have. 

Though, I agree on one thing.  They shouldn't be worrying about GW2 or trying to compete with GW2.  They need all of their focus on trying to fix SWTOR.  Go look at the thread about why people left SWTOR and realize nothing has changed yet and just going F2P won't make much of any difference at all for the majority of people who left the game.

Those "fair weather" fans didn't leave strictly because of other games.  They left because the game is bad.

Originally posted by Souldrainer
SWTOR just had an event last week. The game has turned a profit through CE, headphone, keyboard, mouse, and other merch sales, and their aub numers are over the "profitable" margin. That said, a large number of their fair weather fans have jumped over to Tera and TSW by now... so GW2 probably won't impact SWTOR.

Maybe I'm just in a bad mood but (and this is unnecessarily blunt) but...

...that event last week was M'eh at best.

,,,,the game has not made back the cost of development and marketing by a long shot.

....the sub numbers which appear to have dipped below their day to day operations minimum ammount for profitability at 500k?

...the collector's edition that only had 50,000 pre-order units made? The CE that is selling for $29.99 and less collecting dust on shelves worldwide?

....if you are basing profitability on the few bucks EA makes on razer products (which amazon stocks at most 25 of) that's really scrapping the bottom of the barrel.

....those "fair weather fans" all 2 million of them? What makes a non-fair weather fan of this game? GW2 is already impacting SWTOR. When more and more leave, will they be fair weather fans as well? When will you be concerned about all the unhappy people leaving the game? When you are down to one half filled server or when the shut off the lights?

Maybe I'm jut piling on. I'm happy you enjoy your game but I find your level of delusion frightening.

Originally posted by tiefighter25

Originally posted by Souldrainer
SWTOR just had an event last week. The game has turned a profit through CE, headphone, keyboard, mouse, and other merch sales, and their aub numers are over the "profitable" margin. That said, a large number of their fair weather fans have jumped over to Tera and TSW by now... so GW2 probably won't impact SWTOR.

Maybe I'm just in a bad mood but (and this is unnecessarily blunt) but...

...that event last week was M'eh at best.

,,,,the game has not made back the cost of development and marketing by a long shot.

....the sub numbers which appear to have dipped below their day to day operations minimum ammount for profitability at 500k?

...the collector's edition that only had 50,000 pre-order units made? The CE that is selling for $29.99 and less collecting dust on shelves worldwide?

....if you are basing profitability on the few bucks EA makes on razer products (which amazon stocks at most 25 of) that's really scrapping the bottom of the barrel.

....those "fair weather fans" all 2 million of them? What makes a non-fair weather fan of this game? GW2 is already impacting SWTOR. When more and more leave, will they be fair weather fans as well? When will you be concerned about all the unhappy people leaving the game? When you are down to one half filled server or when the shut off the lights?

Maybe I'm jut piling on. I'm happy you enjoy your game but I find your level of delusion frightening.

Originally posted by Souldrainer

Originally posted by tiefighter25

Originally posted by Souldrainer
SWTOR just had an event last week. The game has turned a profit through CE, headphone, keyboard, mouse, and other merch sales, and their aub numers are over the "profitable" margin. That said, a large number of their fair weather fans have jumped over to Tera and TSW by now... so GW2 probably won't impact SWTOR.

Maybe I'm just in a bad mood but (and this is unnecessarily blunt) but...

...that event last week was M'eh at best.

,,,,the game has not made back the cost of development and marketing by a long shot.

....the sub numbers which appear to have dipped below their day to day operations minimum ammount for profitability at 500k?

...the collector's edition that only had 50,000 pre-order units made? The CE that is selling for $29.99 and less collecting dust on shelves worldwide?

....if you are basing profitability on the few bucks EA makes on razer products (which amazon stocks at most 25 of) that's really scrapping the bottom of the barrel.

....those "fair weather fans" all 2 million of them? What makes a non-fair weather fan of this game? GW2 is already impacting SWTOR. When more and more leave, will they be fair weather fans as well? When will you be concerned about all the unhappy people leaving the game? When you are down to one half filled server or when the shut off the lights?

Maybe I'm jut piling on. I'm happy you enjoy your game but I find your level of delusion frightening.

 

OK... every statment released by BW states profits + over 500k subs. I have seen your threads about your suspicions, and you're welcome to have them.. but you didn't post anything concrete, whereas EA has done so. 

Interestingly we've seen absolutely nothing concrete from EA since launch about their profits or their subscription numbers but we continually hear hearsay about it all the time even in the news. Unless you have documented evidence to their sub numbers that you can post, why bother trying to deny what's evidently their pr to keep investors? it's HIGHLY suspicious that the financial director resigned just after making the original 1.7 million statement, he was the first to go, right before all of the major writers, many of the original devs, and that was just before the infamous 200. People were jumping ship left and right, They don't do that unless there's something seriously wrong with the future of a product.

Statements are VERY different from public reports that public companies produce quarterly where everyone can look easily.

Originally posted by Souldrainer

Originally posted by paroxysm

Originally posted by Souldrainer
That said, a large number of their fair weather fans have jumped over to Tera and TSW by now... so GW2 probably won't impact SWTOR.

This is the same type of dillusional and arrogant stance that the developers of SWTOR have. 

Though, I agree on one thing.  They shouldn't be worrying about GW2 or trying to compete with GW2.  They need all of their focus on trying to fix SWTOR.  Go look at the thread about why people left SWTOR and realize nothing has changed yet and just going F2P won't make much of any difference at all for the majority of people who left the game.

Those "fair weather" fans didn't leave strictly because of other games.  They left because the game is bad.

 

Why try to bring people back? When the F2p launch goes live, they will gain millions of new customers without flip-flopping their design goals and spending even more money. The game does need improvement, I'll agree, but trying to shoehorn it to please the disenfranchised SWG fanbase will create more problems than it would solve.

Not sure what you are talking about with shoehorning it to please SWG fans.  Never played SWG.  I didn't play SWTOR just because it was a Star Wars game either.

Millions of new customer with F2P?  As hyped and as anticipated as the game was, how many who were interested didn't try it?  Ok...  Let's say you get those "millions" of new customers.  In a game with so many issues, how many will stay or pay for anything from a shop?   How many will experience the story and just leave?

I'm saying they need to fix what is wrong before just swapping it to F2P or what will be the point.  Going F2P won't make the game different or magically fix all it's problems.   They can only keep sitting in denial for so long before someone comes in and shuts the lights off on them for good.

Originally posted by paroxysm

Originally posted by Souldrainer

Originally posted by paroxysm

Originally posted by Souldrainer
That said, a large number of their fair weather fans have jumped over to Tera and TSW by now... so GW2 probably won't impact SWTOR.

This is the same type of dillusional and arrogant stance that the developers of SWTOR have. 

Though, I agree on one thing.  They shouldn't be worrying about GW2 or trying to compete with GW2.  They need all of their focus on trying to fix SWTOR.  Go look at the thread about why people left SWTOR and realize nothing has changed yet and just going F2P won't make much of any difference at all for the majority of people who left the game.

Those "fair weather" fans didn't leave strictly because of other games.  They left because the game is bad.

 

Why try to bring people back? When the F2p launch goes live, they will gain millions of new customers without flip-flopping their design goals and spending even more money. The game does need improvement, I'll agree, but trying to shoehorn it to please the disenfranchised SWG fanbase will create more problems than it would solve.

Not sure what you are talking about with shoehorning it to please SWG fans.  Never played SWG.  I didn't play SWTOR just because it was a Star Wars game either.

Millions of new customer with F2P?  As hyped and as anticipated as the game was, how many who were interested didn't try it?  Ok...  Let's say you get those "millions" of new customers.  In a game with so many issues, how many will stay or pay for anything from a shop?   How many will experience the story and just leave?

I'm saying they need to fix what is wrong before just swapping it to F2P or what will be the point.  Going F2P won't make the game different or magically fix all it's problems.   They can only keep sitting in denial for so long before someone comes in and shuts the lights off on them for good.

I am over swtor, cancelled my sub and likely won't play it ever again, but having played gw2 some thisl weekend, I am already bored with it. It doesn't feel like a better game to me. If i hadn't just shelled out 60 bucks for gw2 i'd probably rather play swtor, but as it is I am going to try and force myself to find some redeeming value in this game.

So, what comes out next? 

Originally posted by Souldrainer
Why try to bring people back? When the F2p launch goes live, they will gain millions of new customers without flip-flopping their design goals and spending even more money. The game does need improvement, I'll agree, but trying to shoehorn it to please the disenfranchised SWG fanbase will create more problems than it would solve.

Orange: They will gain millions of new customers? No they won't. No MMO gets millions of new customers except for the freaky pink elephant.... and yes it was a freak of nature for that critter to do what it did.

If they get millions half will be Eastern Grind Players on a timeclock sharing character for gold (credit) farming, or at least they will try that for a few months before most get pulled off SWTOR and snet to log in elsewhere. I will never consider those People "MMO Gamers", not in the slightest, nor will they be customers.

Yes, SWTOR will gain new customers, but not millions. If the get a hundred thousand new customers BioWare will be very fortunate. Most people that wanted to play SWTOR and can afford to spend money one it already have, whether or not they wish to admit that publically here.

Green: I actually agree with you on this part. All parties concerned... LA, EA, and BioWare, they all want to get rid of / distance themselves forever from the SWG fans. They want to forget that SWG ever happened. That is very obvious to even the most casual observer. They want all new customers of SWTOR to be people that were NOT SWG customers.

Originally posted by Souldrainer

 

That's just it though... the game is not broken in the objective sense of the word. You can play 1-50 without any game breaking bugs. This means that your complaints all come back to matters of opinion. That's just it. People *will* play a F2P Star Wars game.. and some will like/love it... so it's a matter of F2P being a way better choice than re-designing the whole game just to please certain people.

I said anyone who hasn't played it will play it to see the story.  That is the leveling part.  The 1-50.  And, what money will EA/Bioware make from those people as they play that and leave?  What will people buy if they came for that part of the game? 

Bugs are not the only thing wrong with the game.  I never said it was "broken".  I'd say it's incomplete(missing features), has bad performance, and is boring.  I'd say it's crafting is pretty awful, social points and LS/DS are poorly implemented, armor is pretty horrible aesthetically, and it's pvp is boring and little in content.  It lacks depth, community, economy, and things to do in general.  And let's not forget space combat being on rails and horribly scaled.  Or, how about those load screens to load transit areas to more load screens to get to a location.

Going F2P helps none of that.  And even if you can say that's all my opinion, going F2P only addresses a single reason that people left the game.  It needs more.  F2P is not the savior of SWTOR you think it is.

Originally posted by Gardavsshade

Green: I actually agree with you on this part. All parties concerned... LA, EA, and BioWare, they all want to get rid of / distance themselves forever from the SWG fans. They want to forget that SWG ever happened. That is very obvious to even the most casual observer. They want all new customers of SWTOR to be people that were NOT SWG customers.

When all is said and done, will they be more ashamed of SWG or SWTOR?

Originally posted by Gardavsshade

Originally posted by Souldrainer
Why try to bring people back? When the F2p launch goes live, they will gain millions of new customers without flip-flopping their design goals and spending even more money. The game does need improvement, I'll agree, but trying to shoehorn it to please the disenfranchised SWG fanbase will create more problems than it would solve.

Orange: They will gain millions of new customers? No they won't. No MMO gets millions of new customers except for the freaky pink elephant.... and yes it was a freak of nature for that critter to do what it did.

If they get millions half will be Eastern Grind Players on a timeclock sharing character for gold (credit) farming, or at least they will try that for a few months before most get pulled off SWTOR and snet to log in elsewhere. I will never consider those People "MMO Gamers", not in the slightest, nor will they be customers.

Yes, SWTOR will gain new customers, but not millions. If the get a hundred thousand new customers BioWare will be very fortunate. Most people that wanted to play SWTOR and can afford to spend money one it already have, whether or not they wish to admit that publically here.

Green: I actually agree with you on this part. All parties concerned... LA, EA, and BioWare, they all want to get rid of / distance themselves forever from the SWG fans. They want to forget that SWG ever happened. That is very obvious to even the most casual observer. They want all new customers of SWTOR to be people that were NOT SWG customers.

What do you mean by that? Am I to take it as an insult or the fact that SWG fans have long memories and unforgiving? Rest assured, LA, SOE and SWG fans will all go to the grave being reminded daily of that game. I'm proud of my haritage thank you very much!

I think the best way to put it is simple. Those who are interested in staying in fantasy will be playing GW2. SWTOR has no fear what so ever. by the time GW2 was released the majority of their Fantasy players had already jumped ship to another fantasy. So please tell me, in all seriousness, why would a Sci Fi fan jump to a Fantasy game if hes interested in Sci Fi?

Same can be said about TSW. TSW isnt for Fantasy fans, its a Modern Day Fantasy at most. SWTOR, GW2 and TSW are not in competition. TSW is for the players interested in Modern Day, GW2 is for fantasy Fans, SWTOR is for Sci Fi fans. If any game has a risk of outside competition its GW2. Fantasy games are a dime a dozen, where Modern Day is almost non existant and Sci Fi is only slightly better. Players will play in the world they want, I'm sure GW2 is a great game and all. i have no interest in playing another fantasy though so hell will freeze over before i play it.

Originally posted by Nikkita

You know there are enough players in this world to keep all these games going? people who love sc fi and SW IP have no interest in GW2.

   I love scifi and somewhat like SW IP and have interest in GW2. I don't even like fantasy or the lore but I like the game itself of it's content and what it has. Your statement isnt entirely true because its kinda sterotype imo if u ask me. I take the game's content and it's ability of freedom over the genre/IP. I can care less. I'm not even a gw2 lore fan but I enjoy the game. I don't like fantasy in fact almost hate it, I enjoy GW2.

What I am saying is, GW2 meets my expectations so fantasy of the game idc, lore of the game idc. the rest I do care and it meant my expectation pretty well or in other words it has what I love the most in mmos.

Originally posted by Jonoku

Originally posted by Nikkita

You know there are enough players in this world to keep all these games going? people who love sc fi and SW IP have no interest in GW2.

   I love scifi and somewhat like SW IP and have interest in GW2. I don't even like fantasy or the lore but I like the game itself of it's content and what it has. Your statement isnt entirely true because its kinda sterotype imo if u ask me. I take the game's content and it's ability of freedom over the genre/IP. I can care less. I'm not even a gw2 lore fan but I enjoy the game. I don't like fantasy in fact almost hate it, I enjoy GW2.

Question though if somone released a good Sci Fi would you play it.