Originally posted by sookster54

 

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Originally posted by winter

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Originally posted by grimal It's about time the big studios started admitting what many have known for some time.  This declaration is a win-win for all.

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  You do understand of course EA doesn't have a clue as their recent releases like ME3, SW:tor, and DA2 have shown. EA is very much a failing company (check their stocks over the last year) So by saying you back them as knowledgable when they can't make any good economic choices themselves I'd have to wonder.

 

 

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They were also voted the worst gaming company. Their console releases are become very stale too, I've been a long time player in NFL Madden and NHL series and I stopped after NHL 10 and Madden 09 as they were turned into trashy noob games with recycled textures and features from the previous (play them and you'll see what I mean).

 

As long as Rock-Star keeps releasing fun Grand Theft Auto and related games, I'll be playing those, but once Rock-Star attempts an MMO game, it's game over. I also think the Skyrim MMO is a bad idea.

You realize that the NHL dev team is really small and poorly funded by EA.  They can't redo the entire game every single year.

The NHL dev team works realy hard to make hockey more realistic every single year for the fans of the sport.

I don't care for Electronic Arts, but they're also the only ones making ice hockey into video game form now.

So I support the EA Sports NHL dev team.  They're good guys, doing their best with very little.

Well, telling the public that sub based games are dead... Activision did the same with Call of Duty when MW2 came out (first CoD game that can't be modded legally) and telling the public that modding FPS games are dead.

Neither sub games nor mod games are dead.

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Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

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Originally posted by sookster54  

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Originally posted by winter

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Originally posted by grimal It's about time the big studios started admitting what many have known for some time.  This declaration is a win-win for all.

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  You do understand of course EA doesn't have a clue as their recent releases like ME3, SW:tor, and DA2 have shown. EA is very much a failing company (check their stocks over the last year) So by saying you back them as knowledgable when they can't make any good economic choices themselves I'd have to wonder.    

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They were also voted the worst gaming company. Their console releases are become very stale too, I've been a long time player in NFL Madden and NHL series and I stopped after NHL 10 and Madden 09 as they were turned into trashy noob games with recycled textures and features from the previous (play them and you'll see what I mean).   As long as Rock-Star keeps releasing fun Grand Theft Auto and related games, I'll be playing those, but once Rock-Star attempts an MMO game, it's game over. I also think the Skyrim MMO is a bad idea.

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You realize that the NHL dev team is really small and poorly funded by EA.  They can't redo the entire game every single year.

The NHL dev team works realy hard to make hockey more realistic every single year for the fans of the sport.

I don't care for Electronic Arts, but they're also the only ones making ice hockey into video game form now.

So I support the EA Sports NHL dev team.  They're good guys, doing their best with very little.

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Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

Originally posted by sookster54

 

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Originally posted by winter

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Originally posted by grimal It's about time the big studios started admitting what many have known for some time.  This declaration is a win-win for all.

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  You do understand of course EA doesn't have a clue as their recent releases like ME3, SW:tor, and DA2 have shown. EA is very much a failing company (check their stocks over the last year) So by saying you back them as knowledgable when they can't make any good economic choices themselves I'd have to wonder.

 

 

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They were also voted the worst gaming company. Their console releases are become very stale too, I've been a long time player in NFL Madden and NHL series and I stopped after NHL 10 and Madden 09 as they were turned into trashy noob games with recycled textures and features from the previous (play them and you'll see what I mean).

 

As long as Rock-Star keeps releasing fun Grand Theft Auto and related games, I'll be playing those, but once Rock-Star attempts an MMO game, it's game over. I also think the Skyrim MMO is a bad idea.

You realize that the NHL dev team is really small and poorly funded by EA.  They can't redo the entire game every single year.

The NHL dev team works realy hard to make hockey more realistic every single year for the fans of the sport.

I don't care for Electronic Arts, but they're also the only ones making ice hockey into video game form now.

So I support the EA Sports NHL dev team.  They're good guys, doing their best with very little.

You do realize that the reason that there is only one company, EA, producing NHL ice hockey games is because EA bought a long term licence for exclusice rights to NHL Hockey games. After shutting everyone else out of the market, their reasoning behind underfunding their hockey dev team is bacause the license cost "so much". They are rellying on people to buy their hockey game, since it is the only one, year after year; despite the fact that the game is essentially the same every year; due to EA underfunding thier dev team in a search to "maximize profits".

Sounds a bit like Frankenstein story.

Our p2p SWTOR is dead,now its f2p ,its alive!i ts aliveee!

EA declares P2P dead and I declare that Bioware is dead.............and EA will follow soon, if they do not start putting game designers in charge of the projects rather than their marketing directors..

Let's see which prediction will be the more realistic..............

Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

You realize that the NHL dev team is really small and poorly funded by EA.  They can't redo the entire game every single year.

The NHL dev team works realy hard to make hockey more realistic every single year for the fans of the sport.

I don't care for Electronic Arts, but they're also the only ones making ice hockey into video game form now.

So I support the EA Sports NHL dev team.  They're good guys, doing their best with very little.

Agreed, it is not their fault that they like Maxis have a slave contract and have to put out stuff way too often with too low budget.

But I still wish they released a new game like that every third year instead and made it different and better than earlier games. The same slightly updated game every single year is highway robbery.

Originally posted by ste2000

EA declares P2P dead and I declare that Bioware is dead.............and EA will follow soon, if they do not start putting game designers in charge of the projects rather than their marketing directors..

Let's see which prediction will be the more realistic..............

Bioware isnt exactly dead, they just cant make a good MMO. They can still make acceptable singleplayer games, maybe not as good as NWN or BG 1 & 2 but at least acceptable like the ME series.

But I agree, EA must stop #%¤& with their studios and allow the devs to make fun games. Good games are made by gamers, not slimy weasels in suits.

Originally posted by Cervani
Sub costs were originally put in place to help offset server costs for early MMOs.  In a time where server costs for a MMO now barely reaches 100k, there is pretty much no excuse to have a sub fee these days.  Or at least a sub fee as high as $13 a month like some MMOs charge.

That is true, running costs of MMOs are a lot lower nowadays than in 1996. Then again production costs are way up so maybe B2P with a higher boxprice would be fairer.

P2P is a service you provide and sometimes it is worth to pay for a service. Of course when they add itemshops and released plenty of expansions you must buy it seems rather greedy and that is when the model fail. But F2P games, or more precise western "Freemium" games are getting rather greedy as well.

Originally posted by Cervani
Sub costs were originally put in place to help offset server costs for early MMOs.  In a time where server costs for a MMO now barely reaches 100k, there is pretty much no excuse to have a sub fee these days.  Or at least a sub fee as high as $13 a month like some MMOs charge.

Dunno about the numbers but today's licensing for software can be extremely expensive (e.g. having to pay according to the physical and virtual numbers of processors). You can resort to open source products, but you'll still have to pay for support. Not for one software, but quite a lot software (e.g. OS, DB, NAS, Network devices, other 3rd party software, etc.).

Pure hardware costs may indeed be low. But hardware costs come in a bundle with software licenses and support.

  I played a bunch of games that are now f2p back when they were sub based .I left them as they were not worth my time OR money.  They were not worth mentioning or thinking about anymore. When they went f2p, I didn't go rushing back to them even thought they were free. A free pile of steaming dog poop, is a steaming pile of dog poop. 

I'll subscribe to a game for 15$ if its worth it. I still subscribe to WOW and probably will for quite awhile. The game [in my opinion] delivers 15$ a months worth. Besides people who play f2p usually end up paying more then 15$ a month on buying access to dungeons/weapons/potions...I know  I did that.  Sub models that you can  access all content of just by playing is better.

The sub model is better for my wallet as long as the game is fun.

Originally posted by Theodwulf

  I played a bunch of games that are now f2p back when they were sub based .I left them as they were not worth my time OR money.  They were not worth mentioning or thinking about anymore. When they went f2p, I didn't go rushing back to them even thought they were free. A free pile of steaming dog poop, is a steaming pile of dog poop. 

 

 

Exactly! A bad game is a bad game. If they change it from P2P to F2P it will only help for a little while. And after that it will be much worse than it ever was...

If forty percent of people cited that they are quitting swtor because they don't want to pay a sub fee, than why wouldn't a company make the change. If 40% quit for that reason, how many didn't try it for that very same reason?

If EA is looking at the exit polls and see...

40% quit for a sub fee

19% quit for lack of mmo features

15% quit for lack of space

14% quit because of pvp

21% quit because its not SWG 2.0,

than what in all reality do you expect them to do?

1. Go free to play(check)

2. Announce and work on mmo features(check/lfg/parsers-meters/guildbanks/legacy perks, and all the stuff dribbling in late)

3. Announced they are working on a super secret space project, thats unlike anything else(of course they said that about pvp too, I guess huttball makes the comment somewhat true, but meh)

4. Announced new warzone, implemented ratings(which worked exactly like I said it would, and thats drive off anyone not in full gear), and announced the possibility of a new ilum being the focal point for the next even.

5. They probably will ignore

sub games are not dead, but I won't pay a sub fee again for any mmo out there. My first mmo had been on the market for years, so there was years of content for me to play through, so I didn't mind the sub, now, with todays gamers they burn through all content in 6 months after launch and quit. So why pay a fee for that? Until theres some breakthrough in programming that allows developers to create years of content quickly before their game is outdated, free to play will dominate supreme.

Originally posted by tiefighter25

Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

Originally posted by sookster54

 

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Originally posted by winter

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Originally posted by grimal It's about time the big studios started admitting what many have known for some time.  This declaration is a win-win for all.

---

  You do understand of course EA doesn't have a clue as their recent releases like ME3, SW:tor, and DA2 have shown. EA is very much a failing company (check their stocks over the last year) So by saying you back them as knowledgable when they can't make any good economic choices themselves I'd have to wonder.

 

 

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They were also voted the worst gaming company. Their console releases are become very stale too, I've been a long time player in NFL Madden and NHL series and I stopped after NHL 10 and Madden 09 as they were turned into trashy noob games with recycled textures and features from the previous (play them and you'll see what I mean).

 

As long as Rock-Star keeps releasing fun Grand Theft Auto and related games, I'll be playing those, but once Rock-Star attempts an MMO game, it's game over. I also think the Skyrim MMO is a bad idea.

You realize that the NHL dev team is really small and poorly funded by EA.  They can't redo the entire game every single year.

The NHL dev team works realy hard to make hockey more realistic every single year for the fans of the sport.

I don't care for Electronic Arts, but they're also the only ones making ice hockey into video game form now.

So I support the EA Sports NHL dev team.  They're good guys, doing their best with very little.

You do realize that the reason that there is only one company, EA, producing NHL ice hockey games is because EA bought a long term licence for exclusice rights to NHL Hockey games. After shutting everyone else out of the market, their reasoning behind underfunding their hockey dev team is bacause the license cost "so much". They are rellying on people to buy their hockey game, since it is the only one, year after year; despite the fact that the game is essentially the same every year; due to EA underfunding thier dev team in a search to "maximize profits".

I do realize all of that yeah.

EA sucks.

But NHL 13 (demo just released) is a fun game and the guys who made it are good people, even if their owners are not.

Sub games are dead not because people won't pay a subscription but because noone is willing to break the WoW 14.99 a month model.  If MMO games like SWTOR or Tera or Rift had subs that started at 9.99 and were say 7.99 for a 3 or 6 month block they would have over twice as many subscripters, be making more money and have much better looking populations.  People playing a game brings in other people to play the game.  Tons of people still play Wow just because all their friends play.  Companies like Netflix and Hulu online have figured out that people aren't willing to pay over 10 dollars a month for streaming movie service, the game industry is just greedy.  Everyone is saying well Wow charges this and it works so we can charge just as much but not the way it goes.  People just aren't willing to pay 15 dollars a month to try a new game and the people that are, just are not willing to continue paying that much unless it is perfect or has a huge player base.

Subscription based game are not dead, its just their games are. If they produce non innovitive games like SWTOR and WAR then they are bound not to be a hit. Two great oppertunities missed by EA in trying to make a WoW clone.

WAR could of been done with the table top PnP core rules instead they tried to make a WoW with the warhammer paint over the top of it.

SWTOR could of been really good but instead they make it into another WoW with Star Wars paint over it.

Also do you realise that WoW was commisioned by Games Workshop to be a computer game franschise based on their Warhammer world but GW pulled the plug while Blizzard kept the ball rolling and made Warcraft a house hold name?

I just resubscribed to WoW again a few days ago.  I've played since Burning Crusade was a year old and, although I take some time off every year to try other games, nothing can compete with what WoW offers for the price.  It's not even close.   I don't mind paying a sub for WoW; many other games are worth a sub, but only until they get boring.  Unfortunately that tends to happen pretty quickly even for someone who levels and plays as many alts as I do. 

EA and many others are quick to announce the subscription model dead, but the real problem is that they are simply looking for obnoxious profit goals that far exceed reality.  Taking everything to a so-called f2p model may give them some immediate boost, but if and when f2p is the only competitor on the block then the halcyon days are likely to end quickly.  F2p makes a segment of the population pay for everyone; not out of some social goal, or any of the little factors that apply in real life, but because they happen to enjoy different things in the game.  That won't last forever, and the people who came to the genre with WoW aren't going to rush somewhere else where they'll get hit for 24.99 for each pet they want when WoW offers them hundreds of pets and outfits and all the little things that WoW gives to the non-dedicated/hardcore player for a constant subscription.  IE, the gravy train won't last even with a f2p model.   Fortunately, I don't think the subscription model actually is as dead as EA would have us believe, and I'm hopeful it remains that way.  I want some f2p games also, mind you...I don't think any single payment model is good for consumers when it's the only payment model.

nah not sub- based games ..just EA's in general LOL!