It's one of those ideas I like but in practice felt was never very good.  Darkfall when I played had two situations, you encounter people in the wild and kill them only to get basically the easiest loot you can find or you get ganked by a roaming guild with epic everything. 

To me it's just a time sink and not the fun kind, there is something very frustrating about logging out from a session and losing and not really gaining.  The only game i've ever really didn't mind this was Minecraft and that's probably because we ran the server so pvp was controlled in some ways.

If you are a fan of FFAFL I actually recommend having a group of friends form a clan wars type server for MC, you can even run  a dedicated server and a client on the same machine so it's not bad.   Plenty of mods out there too for variety and overall very similar experience but you get to make up your own rules and likely won't deal with BS.

When considering the mainstream titles the OP may be right with the assumption that "FFA Full Loot" doesn't make much sense.

On the other hand. I can accept "FFA Full Loot" in small niche games. But some conditions need to be met.

1) If a player kills another player's character in some public "safe" area (e.g. a town, a village, etc.) I expect that local law enforcment NPCs / Players will act and punish the offender (e.g. punishing the offender immediately or taking the offender as captive and perform a public trial + execution later).

2) If a player kills another player's character in some other area and if some witnesses survived then I expect that word will spread and law enforcement NPCs / Players / Bounty Hunters will hunt down that player for trial and an eventual execution.

3) If it's a permadeath setting then "FFA Full Loot" makes sense to salvage some equipment. Again you can only handle this in small scale multiplayer games where people know each other (e.g. Nevewinter Nights persistent worlds, etc.).

4) A lot of players still crave for PvP. The game should provide non-lethal combat / competitions for this purpose.

5) Scavenging a corpse should take some considerable time (i.e. the corpse may need to be searched and undressed to get hold of certain items). Just stepping near it, having a loot window pop up to immediately click-taking the equipment is a no go.

Originally posted by MMOExposed


This concept of FFA/FL imo needs to be banished from all future MMO titles.
 

I know just where you are coming from.

I hate raids and gear grinds and think these things should be removed from all future MMO titles. If I don't like these things, they should not exist for anybody to enjoy period.

I'm just that reasonable.. like yourself

Originally posted by GamerUntouch

It's the risk and rush.

 

If you die and don't lose anything, it doesn't matter, but if you're about to die and have the chance of losing your gear there's adreneline.

Well, it's a video game and doesn't have real risk/lose.   If you ever had real life risk of life situations, a video game will never give that feel to you. 

Originally posted by clumsytoes44
Although i'm not a big fan of the FFA/FL system, I think it should be around for the people that enjoy it. So in a sense I agree, and disagree with you.

 Same here, as said in a similar topic about pvp I don't mind it aslong as it's optional. But then again if it's optional most pvp'rs will notice how little intrest there actually is in FFA/OWPVP and will start to complain that pvp s***s.

You dont have to understand it. Its not for everyone. But some of us do like it. Its ok though, not everyone has to like every game or even every feature of a game. To call it bad design is just silly though. If we called everything bad design that somone may not like, and ask that it be removed we simply wouldnt have video games. I dont care for RTS. Anypart of it. So I guess The idea of RTS is bad design and should be done away with. Joe next door doesnt like FPS. Thinks they are to violent. So lets get rid of FPS's. The list goes on and on.

TLDR: Dont be an idiot. Just because you dont like something doesnt make it bad design. Its really OK that people like diffrent things.

Originally posted by Reklaw

Originally posted by clumsytoes44
Although i'm not a big fan of the FFA/FL system, I think it should be around for the people that enjoy it. So in a sense I agree, and disagree with you.

 Same here, as said in a similar topic about pvp I don't mind it aslong as it's optional. But then again if it's optional most pvp'rs will notice how little intrest there actually is in FFA/OWPVP and will start to complain that pvp s***s.

Well, if the game has FFA PVP it IS optional. You have the option to not play the game. I dont see why people think every game has to please every crowd when thats simply not possible.

Originally posted by xenogias

Originally posted by Reklaw

Originally posted by clumsytoes44
Although i'm not a big fan of the FFA/FL system, I think it should be around for the people that enjoy it. So in a sense I agree, and disagree with you.

 Same here, as said in a similar topic about pvp I don't mind it aslong as it's optional. But then again if it's optional most pvp'rs will notice how little intrest there actually is in FFA/OWPVP and will start to complain that pvp s***s.

Well, if the game has FFA PVP it IS optional. You have the option to not play the game. I dont see why people think every game has to please every crowd when thats simply not possible.

Well very obviously I am speaking about a game that is already played and enjoyed where in that game FFA PVP IS optional.

Having been there where all sorts of gameplay was given to it's players it pretty hard to adjust to this limited genre the MMO has turned into.

Originally posted by emperorwings
Back in the UO days it was fun and exciting because it was done right back then. I can expand on that if required.

I'd like you to expand please because I played UO when it first launched and it wasn't much fun for me or my buddy.  Now, grant you, I admit to being a total MMO noob back then and had no concept of having to be in a guild or anything.  My good friend and I just found the game and thought it would be something cool to play together. 

We started playing and were having a great time when suddenly roaming bands of 6-8 people would come along and wipe us out, take everything and leave us with nothing.  There was no chance to get away or fight back.  We didn't necessarily want to have to join a big guild or group up with 5-6 people at all time just to be safe in the world.  We wanted to be able to run around as a duo and have fun, but that wasn't possible.

Do FFA and Full Loot have to be together? Why not some form of multi-faction PvP with Full loot or some other type of Player Loot...such as designating one equiped item as lootable. No swapping if things go bad. There could be some sort of restrictions so people couldn't designate some piece of garbage....or maybe not, if wearing that garbage piece gimps them enough.

Or are any restrictions at all bad?

I do not like the full loot feature because it essentially rewards gankers and over geared, overly powerful players and creates the opposite for a new or still progressing player.

I like this design when you are rewarded with drops much the same as when Mobs drop items. They don't have to be taken from the corpse but still reward the player with gold, loot, and a chance at some decent gear or items.

The pvpers will get rewarded for having some fun and the unfortunate souls that are dead still keep their gear, money, and dignity. This scenario is still not fun for underpowered players trying to progress but at least they are not pushed back to square one over and over.

I really wouldn't play any game with a  full body loot system again as I have tried them twice. First with DarkFall and then with Day Z. 

The experience I got was at first it was exciting and new. However after awhile you get people who just pick on you because your an easy kill and they get some kind of rush by greifing you. Sometimes they didn't take my loot but at other times they would send me a tell saying how they destroyed my loot or I would just come back to an empty body. I knew they couldn't of taken it all along with the gear or any other loot they may have had because of the loot system and how much Newbie junk I had on me. 

    There comes a point where it is just griefing and ceases to be enjoyable for one of the parties. In day-z I expeirenced the same over all thing but it was much eaiser to avoid and was obviously a beta mod that needs a lot of work. Nothing quite as infuriating as grinding all day and then losing a couple hours of work because someone decides to be a dick.

In my opinion it is fine if game developers want to have this system in their titles but they should understand they are only appealing to a niche minority of the audience. I personally won't play those games anymore unless the PvP is completely optional if it has a full body loot system. Go ahead call me a carebear I don't care I know what I enjoy. I am not here to [;ay games so I can validate those want to grief people.

I don't like full loot because there is no reason for a player loses his items, if a player is going to drop some of his items upon death, in my opinion there must be a reason. Because of this I like the system of Lineage, because it provides guild wars in owpvp without making new players or neutral players(players that are not war with any other clan) to suffer by being ganked with no reason and no consequences for the ganker, only pkers(players that kill neutral players will become pk, while in pk state, any player can kill him and he can drop his items).

I will post again:

Originally posted by Prenho

Themepark players never heard about pk and karma? Any sandbox focused in OW pvp-clan wars that wants to be decent use a pk system. Lineage 1 and Lineage 2 show this. Just add a pk system, there are 2 things to consider:

 

1 - PvP without war:

If player A wants to kill player B but player B is not at war with him(player B belongs to a clan that is not at war with player A clan, or simply doesn't belong to any clan). Player A starts attacking, so his name changes from White(normal state) to purple(flagged state), so 2 things can happen depending if player B will react or not:

a - Player B doesn't react: if player B doesn't want to react and player A kills him, it means that he killed a player with white name(normal state), so player A will gain karma and his name will change to red color(it means that he became pk, pks are banned from towns, he can't enter cities or talk to npcs, and if someone dies while in pk state, he can lose some(or all) items(as his weapon or armor).

A pk player needs to kill monters of his gap of level until he cleans his karma and his name becomes white again. Anyone can kill a pk without worrying, pks can be killed and the killer won't become pk, just will have a change to loot some items from pk after killing him.

A(white name) atks B(white name) = A becomes purple name

A(purple name) kills B(white name) = A becomes red name(pk) gain karma because he killed a white name.

b - Player B reacts: player B decides to fight back, so player B will become a purple name too, both players are purple, so this fight will end up and nobody will become pk, because both players are flagged, the winner will just have to wait some time until his name turns white again.

A(white name) atks B(white name) = A becomes purple name

B(white name) atks back = B becomes purple name 

Both palyer are flagged, so it doesn't matter who wins, nobody will become pk because both players opened flag.

2 - PVP with war

Player A finds player B and he notices that player B belongs to a clan that is at war with his clan, in this case, the rule above does not work anymore, because both players are at war, so no matter if player A kills player B without player B reacts or not, you can kill him without worrying about becoming pk, the winner will gain pvp point and clan reputation(you can use special clan skills with reputation). So the players make their own alliances and enemies, while a poor faction game, there are only 2(or 3) factions.

So just  because you dont like how a system works, it should be banned from MMos forever?

Listen, I'm not a big fan of themeparks, but do I think they should be wiped off? Or as you put it, a "thing of the past"? NO. If you enjoy it, if there are other people that enjoy it, then thats good enough to keep it around.

I am not going to penalize a certain group of people just because I dont like their playstyle. More importantly, if you take that system away you are further restricting the creativity and innovation in the industry which is so desperately needed at this time. Seriously. You want to restrict innovation even more?

What a load of rubbish! It sounds like this post was thrown up after the author tried out a PvP loot game and got killed. If you dont like it, DONT PLAY IT. But dont go around saying "all these games should be eradicted off the earth!" Its wrong.

Its not like its even a popular system. The heavy death penalty PvP system has been so demonized, so hated, it hardly exists anymore. There are only a few games left that employ these systems. So leave them be. They've been beaten down enough.

Originally posted by Theocritus
      It only makes it fun for those who enjoy ruining other players gaming.....In general it caters to people that most of us would consider jerks.

I agree. and it creates a community in which you cant even trust people outside your group/guild/clan whatever.

Thats leaves truly bad PvE gameplay, since nothing can be done without your guild members on a large scale effort.

take GW2 for example. The Events are built around players of any kind, coming together to tackle this task.

in FFA/FL situation, this wouldnt work, since nobody would trust each other for teamwork unless they were guild members/clan members.

It just opens the game up to be ruined by jerks as you put it. Game may have interesting gameplay, but ruined by the players, not the game.

It's a niche genre, and as such just as valid as any other niche genre.

Personally I am not a fan of it, but that doesn't mean others can't or shouldn't like it.

Anyway, even If you don't like it, be positive about it! Shouldn't you be happy these games exist and attract "this certain type of player"? They are not in your preferred game anymore... win/win, right? :)

It's really simple for me, a regular MMO offers absolutely zero paranioa that comes with for example, watching a scary movie, or playing a scary game such as Deadspace.

But a full loot MMO offers that anxiety that comes with scary stuff, because at any moment you can be jumped and lose everything. So for me, if theres nothing to lose and theres nothing to gain, then whats the point in playing?

So since you are against FFA PVP are you also against advanced NPC AI that does anything more than run straight up to you and attack until you kill it? I personally find NO challenge in fighting NPC, and prefer to square off against another living breathing THINKING human being. Would you complain if the NPC stalked you and attacked you when your health was low, or led you into an ambush? I think you would. What you people hate is anything that is not EASY. If something bests you in combat then the entire system must be done away with! Am I right?

Holy shi.. MMOExposed doesn't understand something!

Historical event right here ladys and gents, something to tell your grandkids!