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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Keep Defense - Best Class

18 posts found
  time007

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/09
Posts: 333

"Get your FPS out of my MMORPG" - Timetrapper (me)

 
OP  8/23/12 10:40:12 AM#1

Hi,

I haven't played GW2 BWE's so I wanted to ask which is the best offensive class for keep defense?  I know people will say all classes are important etc/any class can be awesome.  But which class is going to be the most key class for keep defense?  (and don't say they are all key or they are all important! hah)  For example, I played Daoc for a long time (5+ years) and casters and archers were always very critical (yeah tanks could run around and skirmish, but in the end casters & archers on keep walls could just fire away and light attackers up nonstop, rack up rps etc)

Since I haven't played yet, is keep sieging like that?   I read online that range is a big issue and if you are in a keep/on a keep wall, you can't hit anyone because its too far?  Is this true?  If so, would mean rangers and elementalists aren't hands down the best for keep defense, and negates their range during keep sieges?  Ranger > elementalist for a keep siege? Ranger < elementalist?

(Yes I'm aware there are objectives etc and you can run around and complete those to assist, and that people can heal and support etc, so all classes are useful, but I'm looking for the most hands down offensive class you want for a keep defense.) 

  Anireth

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 375

8/23/12 10:44:52 AM#2

I am not sure if elevation increases projectile range, but it's likely, as it already did in GW. Anyways, you will at least have your normal range, if someone can hit you, you can hit them.

Unless they use siege equipment like trebuchets etc., but you can build your own stuff in the keep to shoot people way beyond personal attack range.

Also, all classes can use ranged weapons, and some like the guardian can block projectiles etc., so you can't simply say rangers and/or elementalists are the best classes. A elementalist using daggers will have more trouble killing people while standing on the wall then a warrior using a rifle.

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  Delvie

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/06
Posts: 463

8/23/12 10:47:02 AM#3

Well to make it more difficult for you every single profession (class) has viable ranged options.  They might not be on your favorite weapons to use (depends completely on your play style) but every single profession has a weapon that provides viable ranged options.  At one time Guardian was kind of weak when it came to ranged but Arena Net listened and changed up their choices just to cover the defending keep scenario.

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  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

8/23/12 10:49:22 AM#4

I have found arrowcart to by far be the best class in keep defense ;).

Seriously though, if you want to do well in keep defense...get supply and build siege weapons on your walls.  They can shoot further than players, do more damage, and have great CC.  In fact, what I have learned is that the primary purpose of players in keep assault/defense is to...

1.  Operate siege weapons.

2.  Procure supply to build siege weapons.

3.  Raid the other team to destroy their siege weapons.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  MadKing

Novice Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 175

8/23/12 10:50:58 AM#5
Imo I would have to say the Elementalist, they have a lot of AoE skills that can prove devastating in large groups, they also have a lot of support skill if required. next would be ranger or Warrior.
  Wolvards

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/27/12
Posts: 674

8/23/12 10:54:19 AM#6
Originally posted by Creslin321

I have found arrowcart to by far be the best class in keep defense ;).

Seriously though, if you want to do well in keep defense...get supply and build siege weapons on your walls.  They can shoot further than players, do more damage, and have great CC.  In fact, what I have learned is that the primary purpose of players in keep assault/defense is to...

1.  Operate siege weapons.

2.  Procure supply to build siege weapons.

3.  Raid the other team to destroy their siege weapons.

Me and a buddy are making a guild with just that in mind. Calling it "Castle Crashers" <CRSH>.

Our goal? To obliterate the enemy with ballistae.

on a serious note though. If you're going to play keep Dee's, and don't use siege, might as well not show up. Well placed siege is huge. Sure a large zerg would do great, but nothing like a small team that uses siege to counter said mindless zerg.

The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.

  time007

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/09
Posts: 333

"Get your FPS out of my MMORPG" - Timetrapper (me)

 
OP  8/23/12 10:55:49 AM#7

Yeah I read online each class has a range choice.  I just thought the standard ranged classes that specifically spec's/gears for ranged (engineer, ranger, elementalist) would be able to dish out more damage than say a guardian who spec's/gears for ranged. 

Didn't know about the siege weapon defense thing.  Most games I played it was too costly to use siege stuff, took a long time to build, or the siege happened so fast you really just had time to get in the keep & didnt bring any stuff with you.  Also in prior games keep defense catapults etc didnt hit that hard.  I suppose for GW2 they made this more convenient though and also more relevant.  Though I've never been a siege engine type guy myself heh so I might have to adjust if it turns out siege weapons are more effective than just taking people out the old fashioned way.

  Ice-Queen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 2430

"Always borrow money from a pessimist. They won't expect it back."

8/23/12 10:59:19 AM#8
Originally posted by time007

Yeah I read online each class has a range choice.  I just thought the standard ranged classes that specifically spec's/gears for ranged (engineer, ranger, elementalist) would be able to dish out more damage than say a guardian who spec's/gears for ranged. 

Didn't know about the siege weapon defense thing.  Most games I played it was too costly to use siege stuff, took a long time to build, or the siege happened so fast you really just had time to get in the keep & didnt bring any stuff with you.  Also in prior games keep defense catapults etc didnt hit that hard.  I suppose for GW2 they made this more convenient though and also more relevant.  Though I've never been a siege engine type guy myself heh so I might have to adjust if it turns out siege weapons are more effective than just taking people out the old fashioned way.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe both the ranger bow, and the warrior gun or bow can be traited for the longest range. I personally liked the warrior, they were less smushy than the ranger in pvp.

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  Wakygreek

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 4/30/08
Posts: 1244

Reason is a necessity

8/23/12 10:59:38 AM#9
In regards to sieging and WvW, please dont forget about the Honey Badger. Ok in all seriousness, I feel that the Engineers skill set is the best Utility / Support / Keep defense class in the game. He can drop a mortar for allies to use.... A MORTAR. But Across all the classes I would say the 3 best for keep defense have to be in order: Engineer, Elementalist and Ranger.
  time007

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/09
Posts: 333

"Get your FPS out of my MMORPG" - Timetrapper (me)

 
OP  8/23/12 10:59:38 AM#10
OK, I see, thanks for the answer.  Individual Siege Weapon > magic missiles & arrows

  Wolvards

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/27/12
Posts: 674

8/23/12 11:01:20 AM#11
Originally posted by time007

Yeah I read online each class has a range choice.  I just thought the standard ranged classes that specifically spec's/gears for ranged (engineer, ranger, elementalist) would be able to dish out more damage than say a guardian who spec's/gears for ranged. 

Didn't know about the siege weapon defense thing.  Most games I played it was too costly to use siege stuff, took a long time to build, or the siege happened so fast you really just had time to get in the keep & didnt bring any stuff with you.  Also in prior games keep defense catapults etc didnt hit that hard.  I suppose for GW2 they made this more convenient though and also more relevant.  Though I've never been a siege engine type guy myself heh so I might have to adjust if it turns out siege weapons are more effective than just taking people out the old fashioned way.

The reason it's more relavent is because there is a lack of true CC in this game. 

Comparing to DAoC, siege there was pointless against zergs unless you had 5 palintones loaded with Bolt shots firing at the same target (trust me I know haha). But what DAoC had was large AoE mezzes, which made slowing down those large zergs possible and probable. In GW2 there is no large AoE mez, so there has to be something. So they added in siege.

The keys to taking/defending in this game will be supply. No doubt supply is the deciding factor in GW2, doesn't matter how much siege the enemy has, if you have enough supply and income of supply, you can repair long enough to make them bored. If you don't they will knock down your walls and keel you.

As for a class, i'd try Staff Ele, Rifle Warrior, longbow ranger, maybe a glass cannon engineer? They don't do big dps with rifle.Thiefs can do ranged dps, but that playstle to me is /meh. Same with mesmer. Necro i'm going staff for those Marks. 

Pretty much try those classes you mentioned, but always remember siege.

The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.

  jmcdermottuk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/10/06
Posts: 766

8/23/12 11:02:21 AM#12
Originally posted by time007

Yeah I read online each class has a range choice.  I just thought the standard ranged classes that specifically spec's/gears for ranged (engineer, ranger, elementalist) would be able to dish out more damage than say a guardian who spec's/gears for ranged. 

Didn't know about the siege weapon defense thing.  Most games I played it was too costly to use siege stuff, took a long time to build, or the siege happened so fast you really just had time to get in the keep & didnt bring any stuff with you.  Also in prior games keep defense catapults etc didnt hit that hard.  I suppose for GW2 they made this more convenient though and also more relevant.  Though I've never been a siege engine type guy myself heh so I might have to adjust if it turns out siege weapons are more effective than just taking people out the old fashioned way.

The mistake here is thinking of those classes as "ranged" because in GW2 that's not really accurate. Elementalist can use daggers for close range attacks or staff for very long range. Warriors that trait into rifles have serious ranged damage. Better to pick a class you like then get traits suitable for seige warfare.

 

That and buy blueprints and always carry supply when you can. Arrowcarts are fun!

  Senjinn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/11/07
Posts: 184

8/23/12 11:03:25 AM#13
I would choose engineer. Grenades are AE and traited can be 1500 range , one of only 2 classes that get that range. (ranger longbow is the other) Turrets can be set on the walls also. With elixir gun and elixirs they can also be good support and they are a lot sturdier than an elementalist.
  Naqaj

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/24/09
Posts: 1673

8/23/12 11:09:08 AM#14

Siege equipment is by far the most effective choice for castle defense. Every profession can use it.

 

But since you don't want to hear that, my answer for you is: Druid

  Kuinn

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/10/11
Posts: 1974

8/23/12 11:20:57 AM#15
Originally posted by time007

Hi,

I haven't played GW2 BWE's so I wanted to ask which is the best offensive class for keep defense?

 

What Creslin said: "Seriously though, if you want to do well in keep defense...get supply and build siege weapons on your walls."

 

Also, what comes to individual professions, engineer has the furthest range of all ranged builds with grenades and mortar, and guardian has the worst ranged as far as I know.

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

8/23/12 11:29:45 AM#16
Originally posted by time007

Yeah I read online each class has a range choice.  I just thought the standard ranged classes that specifically spec's/gears for ranged (engineer, ranger, elementalist) would be able to dish out more damage than say a guardian who spec's/gears for ranged. 

Didn't know about the siege weapon defense thing.  Most games I played it was too costly to use siege stuff, took a long time to build, or the siege happened so fast you really just had time to get in the keep & didnt bring any stuff with you.  Also in prior games keep defense catapults etc didnt hit that hard.  I suppose for GW2 they made this more convenient though and also more relevant.  Though I've never been a siege engine type guy myself heh so I might have to adjust if it turns out siege weapons are more effective than just taking people out the old fashioned way.

 If you're not into using siege weapons, then you may want to play a class that is really good at helping get supply so that your team can get those siege weapons up!

Mesmer is a good choice here I think...you can put down a portal to make supply runs faster for your team.  And you also have temporal curtain that can grant a large group of people haste.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  jondifool

Novice Member

Joined: 6/04/07
Posts: 1122

8/23/12 11:42:24 AM#17

The best class at keep defense, is outright Elementalist ! because of the big amount of AoE. Followed by any class with a reasonable ranged AOE weapon

And don't make a mesmer, as they really lack anything that make them useable there. (besides the reduced falling damage trait) 

Though some people come up with arguments of what to do with non-AoE setups, that doesn't matter in all the lost cases of keep defense, where it is only a matter of time before the zerg takes the keep. In these situations the zerg would give plenty of targets that it would be ashame not capitalise from with big AoE damage skills.

But if you don't counter the situations where defense loose in then it is another ball game because , then running supplies and making raids agains warmashines and so on does count, and that makes other classes useable.

read how to create a succesfull mmo before posting about GW2. And read tao of ArenaNet before talking about innovation in GW2

  gaeanprayer

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/08
Posts: 2360

8/23/12 11:56:05 AM#18
Originally posted by time007

Hi,

I haven't played GW2 BWE's so I wanted to ask which is the best offensive class for keep defense?  I know people will say all classes are important etc/any class can be awesome.  But which class is going to be the most key class for keep defense?  (and don't say they are all key or they are all important! hah)  For example, I played Daoc for a long time (5+ years) and casters and archers were always very critical (yeah tanks could run around and skirmish, but in the end casters & archers on keep walls could just fire away and light attackers up nonstop, rack up rps etc)

Since I haven't played yet, is keep sieging like that?   I read online that range is a big issue and if you are in a keep/on a keep wall, you can't hit anyone because its too far?  Is this true?  If so, would mean rangers and elementalists aren't hands down the best for keep defense, and negates their range during keep sieges?  Ranger > elementalist for a keep siege? Ranger < elementalist?

(Yes I'm aware there are objectives etc and you can run around and complete those to assist, and that people can heal and support etc, so all classes are useful, but I'm looking for the most hands down offensive class you want for a keep defense.) 

Unfortunately, that's the best answer anyone could give you. All classes are important, but at specific stages of attack/take-over. During the initial stages, long-ranged classes with high damage output are the most important with a couple of exceptions:

Defending the keep initial stage:

1) Ranged DPS on the walls. Mesmer damage up here isn't that great due to the nature of their skills (clones die too quick with all the aoes about, and most of the other skills don't reach), but Elementalists, Rangers and (yes) Bow Warriors are great here.

2) Ranged with a mix of dps and debuff like Engineer and Necromancer are helpful for softening up the enemy and preventing people from just dps'ing the gate.

 

Attacking the keep initial:

1) Ranged DPS, once again (this is why even meleers should have both a melee and ranged weapon set) to avoid getting fire and old poured down on you. This time, Mesmers do just fine. In fact, they excel, since most of the stuff on the walls can't reach your illusions allowing them to DPS the gate and also focus fire on any of the defenders coming out to attack. Their AoE quickness laid at the feet of a group of attackers will instantly demolish anyone coming out of the gate.

2) Ranged buffers and healers like Water-attuned Ele, Guardian, and Engineer are supremely helpful in getting people who die back off their feet, guarding against arrows (Guardian), throwing out heals and debuffing defenders. Don't know if it's been fixed or not, but certain Ele AoE's (Meteor Shower and that big ice chunk that hits the ground) will hit people up on the walls if cast in the right spots.

 

Ranged pretty much dominates while gates are holding. Once the gates come down however, that changes, and it's the people that can charge right into the fight that get to step up and excel. Hammer Guardians, high DPS Thieves and Greatsword Warriors can just a massive swath through enemies, and if they focus on the squishies (Cloth) they'll likely set the enemy's numbers back quite a bit. Ranged classes are still plenty powerful, mind you, it's just that once the gates are down people are CONSTANTLY running around and on the move, which makes it more difficult to hit your target versus someone who can dash toward them and just smack them around a bit. Unless someone decides to take a ranged character on 1v1, that's one of the downfalls of the mages/ranged builds.

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