Scary is very scary. I was horrified to read Scary's arguments.

I get it that it takes all kinds of people to make a world and Scary lives in it. But I am ever so glad I don't have to hang out with him.

People enjoy MMO's, but not as much as watching that same MMO fall and die. Kinda like watching a drama, it only gets exciting when someone dies.

MMO financial success determines the future of MMO design so why would anyone wish success on a game design, system or mechanics they don't like only to see more of them in the future? I'd like to see all Themeparks die a horrible death personally.

MoP your floors, throw your garbade into the Rift and then you have lots of time to play GW2.

Wanting MMOs to fail is about as cool as wanting the neighbors kid to forget his lines and start crying on stage during the school play. Way to go champ. If you aren't rooting for success, just shut up and keep flipping yourself off in the mirror each morning you douche...

Here is a good example, headline on the page, TERA $14.99 until Aug 28th? WTF? The game does not even rate a subscription let alone actually buying it. The game fits the f2p mold and until the developers face that reality, they deserve the scorn they are getting. SWTOR, another example of an extremely overhyped game that failed miserably to live up to expectations. Sorry for those that failed to see that, but it was quite obvious to many of us it was a very badly designed game. As long as developers continue to generate these boring theme park designs that offer little or no continuity for continued play, why would anyone want them to succeed? Why reinforce what is recognized as a bad design?

Wow this is pathetic. First of all if you want to work in an industry the world does not need, then this is what you face. Secondly if the game is crap then tell the world about it, do not cover it up for others to find out on thier own. Third if your going to produce crap games then you already know your going to catch heat.

This is freaking video games not life or death!!!!

Want to give a shout out to Swtor for sucking too btw

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by Zooce
Lol, thigh-master...wtf.

Where the kisses are hers and hers and his...  (And apparently, those young'uns who were teens in the 90s.)

 

Oh i know that show ; )

People want MMO's to fail because of obvious stupid decisions in which they deserve to fail. If I could push a button that made every themepark WoW clone fail for the next hundred years I would push it but luckily they are tanking without me.

Games with overly greedy business models deserve to fail. Games that ignore the playerbase deserve to fail. Games with endgame as an afterthought deserve to fail. Games lacking smooth gameplay at launch deserve to fail. etc. etc.

The above reasons are why pretty much every MMO after WoW has failed. Until these companies start truly thinking for themselves they are doomed to chase 5% of WoW's market and even failing in that regard.

And No, games like Tera having a unique combat system and almost every other aspect of the game is a bad WoW imitation does not count as innovation. You can tell if a company is trying to clone WoW with a single screenshot nowadays, that's how bad it is and yes GW2 is a part of this.

Deep Space 9 was great. Any series that gave birth to characters like Dukat and the multifaceted Elim Garak is winner in my book.

There are valid reasons for wanting a game to fail. Let's say an MMO is made of your favorite ip, but you think the game sucks. You know that the only way to get another shot at your favorite ip being made into a better game is if the current one fails. Let's say there are trends or dynamics you feel are ruining MMO's, like heavy instancing, focusing on singleplayer storytelling to the detriment of community. You know that they only way for these trends to go away are if the games using them fail.

It is tough to bash a game where you know developers are hard at work. Rift for example I don't agree with the tenancy to copy everything in existence without thinking for themselves but man do they know how to code and pump out content. I love the dev team over there and I want them to succeed because there is a chance in the future they may grow a pair and do something innovative and new and if they did it would be crazy. However because of the bandwagon jumping bunch of companies we have making games for us you have to be loud and clear about games that represent stagnation and backwards movement. SWTOR was the final nail in the coffin of out and out wow clones. It is a shining representation of what people do not want in this day and age. If there wasn't people trashing games the developers would keep on thinking there was nothing wrong and they would keep making these safe crappy wow clones if we let them.

Originally posted by Lethality

For me, wanting a game to fail is attached to simlply disagreeing with design decisions or execution, and not wanting success to be a roadmap for future games (which it would stand to reason I would also not like!)

 

 

Yup, it's essential to how the free market works. As a consumer, you generaly don't want a business which you believe isn't serving your intrests well to succeed...or at least to suceed wildly as that means you will see more and more of those business on the market, which limits your individual choice. This would normaly not be so much of an issue, if it were not for the "lemming effect" which seems to have held the MMO market in it's grips for the past decade or so. In most areas of commerce, the desire to emulate successfull products/competitors is counter-blanced by the desire to significantly differentiate yourself from your competition and capture market share in DIFFERENT audience segments that are currently being underserved. This helps to create a healthy variety of offerings for the consumer (and consumers of different tastes). Thus McDonalds is different from Outback Steakhouse, which in turn is different from the Pizza joint on the corner, which in turn is different from that fancy 4 star restaurant you took your wife to for her birthday. The consumer isn't generaly particularly invested in seeing any one offering that they dislike fail, as that won't significantly increase thier opportunity to see more offerings suited to thier preferences. The market is already wide enough to represent well a wide variety of consumer tastes and preferences. For some reason the MMO market has not emulated the healthy variety that exists in so many other sectors of commerce. Although it's a significantly large industry and even rather crowded...there seems to have been a very limited and narrow range of offerings. Most offerings for the past decade, and certainly those given significant capital backing have followed and extremely narrow formula, with relatively minor variations in detail. This leads to many consumers feeling, with justification, that they have little to no offerings targeted to serving thier preferences. It is only natural, therefore, for such consumers to want to see yet another iteration of the same formula fail, in the hopes that publishers might finally begin to realize that particular market segment is over-saturated and breakaway from the formula to offer something substantialy different which might appeal to those currently under-served audiences. This is neither spitefull nor akin to the desire to see traffic accidents. It's a simple, realistic understanding of how free market economies work on the part of consumers who are currently disatisfied. In many way's, the industry has actualy brought this situation upon itself, whether consciously or unconsciously. YMMV.

Originally posted by Paradigm68
There are valid reasons for wanting a game to fail. Let's say an MMO is made of your favorite ip, but you think the game sucks. You know that the only way to get another shot at your favorite ip being made into a better game is if the current one fails. Let's say there are trends or dynamics you feel are ruining MMO's, like heavy instancing, focusing on singleplayer storytelling to the detriment of community. You know that they only way for these trends to go away are if the games using them fail.

Pretty much this.

And also to the companies that make incomplete/shallow/crappy/the-same-game-over-and-over, I have no guilt about hoping they go under too.

Why?

Because that is the way the market works. Make a "bad product"? Work for a badly run company? Get punished.

The alternative is for MMO and other comp game consumers to keep buying bad/mediocre games encouraging these companies to put out the same crap ad infinitum and think it is ok. And it makes no sense: "I am going to buy this mediocre/bad/incomplete product just to support some company?" In what other industry would people think that way?

And that is EXACTLY what has been wrong with the MMO genre the last 6-8 years. People buying "meh" games with crap/shallow/copied design from developers/pubishers that put in the minimum effort  and then patch hard for 6 months (because the game was not ready to go at launch - again, in what other industry would that be acceptable?).

The days when devs/pubs cared about "making good games" is long over. It is no longer hobbists that started programing in their basement that designing games these days. It is midsize and large companies (and their suits) that dictate design, and they care about the money, first, last, and in between. That's it.

 

No. Enough.

More game and company failures are exactly what the industry need if there is any hope of a turn around in the MMO space.

 

(And as an aside, don't feel too much guilt about "all those poor devs" that get "laid off": in the MMO/game industry, that is the norm. People work on a game, it goes out, project over, time to look for the next thing. Getting canned out of a crap company because they put out a crap game is not much different.)

 

Originally posted by Burntvet

Originally posted by Paradigm68
There are valid reasons for wanting a game to fail. Let's say an MMO is made of your favorite ip, but you think the game sucks. You know that the only way to get another shot at your favorite ip being made into a better game is if the current one fails. Let's say there are trends or dynamics you feel are ruining MMO's, like heavy instancing, focusing on singleplayer storytelling to the detriment of community. You know that they only way for these trends to go away are if the games using them fail.

Pretty much this.

And also to the companies that make incomplete/shallow/crappy/the-same-game-over-and-over, I have no guilt about hoping they go under too.

Why?

Because that is the way the market works. Make a "bad product"? Work for a badly run company? Get punished.

The alternative is for MMO and other comp game consumers to keep buying bad/mediocre games encouraging these companies to put out the same crap ad infinitum and think it is ok. And it makes no sense: "I am going to buy this mediocre/bad/incomplete product just to support some company?" In what other industry would people think that way?

And that is EXACTLY what has been wrong with the MMO genre the last 6-8 years. People buying "meh" games with crap/shallow/copied design from developers/pubishers that put in the minimum effort  and then patch hard for 6 months (because the game was not ready to go at launch - again, in what other industry would that be acceptable?).

No. Enough.

More game and company failures are exactly what the industry need if there is any hope of a turn around in the MMO space.

 

(And as an aside, don't feel too much guilt about "all those poor devs" that get "laid off": in the MMO/game industry, that is the norm. People work on a game, it goes out, project over, time to look for the next thing. Getting canned out of a crap company because they put out a crap game is not much different.)

 

 Yep...I agree.  I think that this column more or less ignores the actual valid reasons for wanting a game to fail, and instead paints folks who want anything to fail as sadistic, heartless bastards who only get off on the misery of others.

I will admit that I wanted SWTOR to "fail" as in not become the next big thing.  But my reasons for this has nothing to do with taking enjoyment out of the misery of others, in fact I am really sad for all the folks who lost their job.  On the contrary, my reasons for wanting SWTOR to fail have everything to do with the simple fact that success is imitated.

If SWTOR turned out to be a great success, then it would basically ensure that many future MMORPGs would follow its example of extremely heavily sharded zones, focus on single player aspects of the game like story, and near carbon-copy WoW combat.  I didn't want this to happen, so yes, I wanted SWTOR to fail.

Also...just about everyone here will point out that if you don't want a game company to do horrible practice X, then you should stop buying their games and speak with your wallet.  No one would disagree with this right?

But what do you think the end result of this is?  If everyone actually does do this, then guess what?  The company's game fails and people get laid off!  It's sad, but it's true.  It's naive to think that losers aren't necessary in a free market system.

     I dont think in general taht people want a game to fail, but there are quite a few that are disappointed with certain games and show their displeasure.

I want no games to fail but it is easy to tell which ones will without changes being made. I do want games to meet the definiton of a MMO to be called MMOs. I do not what these Non-MMO MMOs to fail I just wish they would stop trying to claim they are MMOs.

people that want games to fail are losers ,  a ton of people tend to get fired that are not responsible for the games failure in the first place. If your okay with that your a D-bag, however a huge amount of people that want games to fail are little kids that have no stake in the world and have no clue what the terms they use actually mean.

I'd say anti-fan sentiment is pretty clearly expressed and defined right here in the thread.

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by Burntvet

Originally posted by Paradigm68
There are valid reasons for wanting a game to fail. Let's say an MMO is made of your favorite ip, but you think the game sucks. You know that the only way to get another shot at your favorite ip being made into a better game is if the current one fails. Let's say there are trends or dynamics you feel are ruining MMO's, like heavy instancing, focusing on singleplayer storytelling to the detriment of community. You know that they only way for these trends to go away are if the games using them fail.

Pretty much this.

And also to the companies that make incomplete/shallow/crappy/the-same-game-over-and-over, I have no guilt about hoping they go under too.

Why?

Because that is the way the market works. Make a "bad product"? Work for a badly run company? Get punished.

The alternative is for MMO and other comp game consumers to keep buying bad/mediocre games encouraging these companies to put out the same crap ad infinitum and think it is ok. And it makes no sense: "I am going to buy this mediocre/bad/incomplete product just to support some company?" In what other industry would people think that way?

And that is EXACTLY what has been wrong with the MMO genre the last 6-8 years. People buying "meh" games with crap/shallow/copied design from developers/pubishers that put in the minimum effort  and then patch hard for 6 months (because the game was not ready to go at launch - again, in what other industry would that be acceptable?).

No. Enough.

More game and company failures are exactly what the industry need if there is any hope of a turn around in the MMO space.

 

(And as an aside, don't feel too much guilt about "all those poor devs" that get "laid off": in the MMO/game industry, that is the norm. People work on a game, it goes out, project over, time to look for the next thing. Getting canned out of a crap company because they put out a crap game is not much different.)

 

 Yep...I agree.  I think that this column more or less ignores the actual valid reasons for wanting a game to fail, and instead paints folks who want anything to fail as sadistic, heartless bastards who only get off on the misery of others.

I will admit that I wanted SWTOR to "fail" as in not become the next big thing.  But my reasons for this has nothing to do with taking enjoyment out of the misery of others, in fact I am really sad for all the folks who lost their job.  On the contrary, my reasons for wanting SWTOR to fail have everything to do with the simple fact that success is imitated.

If SWTOR turned out to be a great success, then it would basically ensure that many future MMORPGs would follow its example of extremely heavily sharded zones, focus on single player aspects of the game like story, and near carbon-copy WoW combat.  I didn't want this to happen, so yes, I wanted SWTOR to fail.

Also...just about everyone here will point out that if you don't want a game company to do horrible practice X, then you should stop buying their games and speak with your wallet.  No one would disagree with this right?

But what do you think the end result of this is?  If everyone actually does do this, then guess what?  The company's game fails and people get laid off!  It's sad, but it's true.  It's naive to think that losers aren't necessary in a free market system.

 

I didn't even address the whole 'guilt about job losses' because it's such a silly idea. But yes, what you said.  What, I'm supposed to buy everything ever made or I should feel guilty about job losses? Ridiculous.