First of DS9 borring?  What the world you start talking Star Trek get your facts in order.  

Next I am not wanting to see any game fail.  However we have it.  I wanted SWTOTR to be my replacement for swg.  I had quit swg after the NGE.  I love star wars, in fact I have played just about every game that is out there under the star wars ip both good and bad.   I was wanting SWTOR to be a great game,  fact is for many of us they failed to deliver a great game, what happened next was bound to happen,  cutting cost, cutting staff, and free to play.

Failcom, can I say enough.  I had been mad with this company ever since AOC,  but I still tried TSW as there sure seamed to be a lot of folks liking it.  It is ok, but it is a niche game. Not many folks are playing it.  I can log into hudra, chat in egypt is made of of the same 8-9 folks most of them spamming insults at each other.  I can got most of the day and not see another player until I go back to London, there at the bank 30 or 40.  Argartha 30-40 standing around spamming lfg.  Fact is I wanted this to be a good game that would eat up my time,  what we got well was mediocre at best.

I don't want companies to fail, I want them to make good games. Fact is a lot of them are making cruddy games and those games need to fail.  They need to fail hard to show lazy developers that we don't want cruddy games.

I am sorry when anybody looses a job, been there done that laid of several times over the past few years and even fired once when I was deemed to sick to work but got let go for a made up excuse.  Never fun to loose a job, but you know what.  You pull up your pants, put your big boy smile on and carry on with life.  Go get a new job and get over it!!!!!

Enough said.

Originally posted by scarybooster
Question: Do you think it's really the developers that don't want innovation or is it investors and parent companies pushing for the "safe" route? All the developers I've talked to are passionate about their games and want to play an innovative new game. Where does this fall through the cracks from development to release?

This is true...developers do want to create innovative games.  But the problems arise after the game design document is created with the idea of investment in mind.  So instead of actively pursueing new and innovative ideas for their MMO, the developer is just trying to find a way to get adaquate funding.  This leads to them using cookie-cutter concepts that they know the publisher or investors will understand and make it easier for them to get investment, or the project accepted.

The blame...I believe...falls on both shoulders.  The developers for not pushing new concepts that may be just as risky as copying the old, and the publishers and investors who suddenly seem to forget a very important rule of business.  That without innovation, a business will become stagant, and eventually...fail.

Originally posted by erictlewis

First of DS9 borring?  What the world you start talking Star Trek get your facts in order.  

Next I am not wanting to see any game fail.  However we have it.  I wanted SWTOTR to be my replacement for swg.  I had quit swg after the NGE.  I love star wars, in fact I have played just about every game that is out there under the star wars ip both good and bad.   I was wanting SWTOR to be a great game,  fact is for many of us they failed to deliver a great game, what happened next was bound to happen,  cutting cost, cutting staff, and free to play.

Failcom, can I say enough.  I had been mad with this company ever since AOC,  but I still tried TSW as there sure seamed to be a lot of folks liking it.  It is ok, but it is a niche game. Not many folks are playing it.  I can log into hudra, chat in egypt is made of of the same 8-9 folks most of them spamming insults at each other.  I can got most of the day and not see another player until I go back to London, there at the bank 30 or 40.  Argartha 30-40 standing around spamming lfg.  Fact is I wanted this to be a good game that would eat up my time,  what we got well was mediocre at best.

I don't want companies to fail, I want them to make good games. Fact is a lot of them are making cruddy games and those games need to fail.  They need to fail hard to show lazy developers that we don't want cruddy games.

I am sorry when anybody looses a job, been there done that laid of several times over the past few years and even fired once when I was deemed to sick to work but got let go for a made up excuse.  Never fun to loose a job, but you know what.  You pull up your pants, put your big boy smile on and carry on with life.  Go get a new job and get over it!!!!!

Enough said.

Only problem is, a job like this is directly related to the fans and consumers.. You can't just go out on the court and make a jumpshot for 2 points that is seen and recognized as a score.. You can't go out on a sunday and throw a couple of touchdown passes which win you the game.. You have to spend hard hours working away at something and HOPE that your public, your audience will support you..

A good nascar driver can be the most hated man in the world, but as long that car finishes top position in that cup standing, our opinion, our hate does not matter..

In MMO's, WE drive them.. They cannot please us all (who could? Blizzard? ha..) so they have to target a group that they feel would support them.. When EvE came out, I am positive they were not expecting EVERYONE to like their game, but the people who actually enjoyed it kept it from sinking (even though it had it's problems, trust me, I know)..

If we like a game we need to support our community.. 

Kickstarter was such a great idea because it gets fan support and supplies directly from, without having to put yourself down in the dirt to reach for it.. The fans basically pay for what they get, so there is no confusion..

I think as the industry is failing us, we are also failing the industry.. Sometimes "perfection" (ya know, WoW 'obviously') takes time.. If we are too impatient to even offer up at least one month of subscription fees or a few dollars in a cash shop we cannot expect a product to get better..

They don't just pull funds out of their behinds.

I want almost all games to succeed save two very big and important exceptions:

1) Very bad/damaging pricing models or game designs that I do not want to have repeated in future games 

2) Lying/Criminal/Shady business practices

So far, the only developers that have really crossed the line in these areas have been Funcom so its really their latest 2 mmos that I have drawn issue to. You can bet though if other mmos went the same route I would take a similar stance against them.

People have been complaining about WoW clones on these forums for years. Well why do you think there were WoW clones in the first place? Because developers see a successful model and they try to replicate it. Well guess what happens when a bad game or corrupt company has success? Many years of others repeating what they did. For someone that isn't shortsighted, the problems with this are clear. 

To many companies now make MMOs that are like Frogster - these strange, non-imaginative MMOs with subpar graphics pop onto the market every other week, have some strange cash shop and exist almost soley to make a quick buck.

I absolutly want these to fail, these companies are shady at best and downright deceptive at worst.  The games themselves are usually awful in nearly every aspect, I don't want these games/companies to succeed.

Agree with the article.

Never wanted a game to fail. I hate the game WoW became (easy mode, dailies, LFR, etc) but I never wanted Blizzard to fail as a company. Like someone said, I just cancealed my subscription and started playing an inovative game.

On the other hand, I really hope that some games succeed on the industry, so we can have more options. I love TSW and GW2 style, and will play both. Strongly hope they succeed.

Lets combine a few good phrases:

The only thing sure in life is death... and taxes.

A broken clock is right twice a day.

It is very easy to prophesize that every game is going to fail.... because it is eventually going to happen... and if you do this for every game, you are bound to be right some of the time. Then they can always reference the time that they were right (while ignoring the times that they were not). Everyone likes to be right... right?

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Lethality

For me, wanting a game to fail is attached to simlply disagreeing with design decisions or execution, and not wanting success to be a roadmap for future games (which it would stand to reason I would also not like!)

 

I too feel the same. Fail is a strong word though, maybe too strong.

 

I wont mince words, I feel the GW2 model is the gaming anti-christ, atleast one of the signs. I hate the business model far more than the gameplay itself. 

 

I shudder at a future when buying gold in my mmorpg is the norm instead of the outlier. When an mmorpg is collection of games in a box without a cohesive one world design. When hype sells 2.4 million boxes at launch and solid innovative play sells less than 500k at launch. When "give me now" trumps earning an reward. When all of this is a raging sucess. 

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting I see the buying a box, having a sub and a cash shop closer to the "anti-christ".

On topic. Its hard to want a game to fail, at most you want a certain aspect of it to be shun upon. Maybe its something in the gameplay or the price model. It could be a number of things, but wanting a game to fail is not something Ive come accross.

I think it is a cop out to reduce "wanting a game to fail" to the human factor. Yes, it is regrettable that sometimes, people are laid off. But do I have to wish every game well and pay for it so that this doesn't happen?

That's guilt-tripping me into paying for and playing games I don't want. I am not responsible for the livelihoods of game devs, sorry.

Take a look at SW: TOR. I wanted that game to be good. I pre-ordered the CE, I took leave when it came out, I was passionate about it. I even used to hang around their forums and voice productive, concise feedback to the topics I knew enough about to have an educated talk about. Only, there never was talk. There ever only was monologue.

And I'm not saying that I'm special and that BW should have done what I said. But there were hundreds, maybe thousands of people on their forums mirroring my sentiments about concerns with the game.

Bioware did not listen, and ultimately, this is (part of) why SW: TOR is now going f2p. Because yes, we are not game designers for the most part. But we are gamers. We usually know what works or doesn't work in our hobby. And as showcased in that Wilson/Brevik stunt: The industry detaches itself more and more from the common gamer.

And that leaves the 'informed decision' when I 'want' a game to fail to a simple check: Do I want the characteristics of that game to be perpetuated in the industry?

Take a look at WoW (imo a great game in its time) and what it has done to the industry as a whole. Sometimes I wish that WoW hadn't been so successful - I think we would have a few more interesting MMORPGs to play instead of one uninspired WoW-alike after the other.

Also think about the working conditions of developers. Brevik in his infamous interview hinted at it: Being a game developer nowadays means that you either have success or you get replaced. Is that a climate we want to foster?

Originally posted by Vyeth

Good games like the chronicles of spellborne, Matrix Online and Tabula Rasa were wayy before their time and people called for their heads all the time.. Seeing those games shut down and all those jobs liquidated helps no one.. Not the industry, not the genre, not the consumers.. It only further helps the guy with the big wallet realize that MMO's are NOT the future and cannot be dependant on support from its fans (SWTOR was a big check in this category because not even star wars fans could keep that game afloat, which is partly what they were relying on)

The most interesting thing here is that none of those games were anywhere near wow-clones (ok i can't really speak for MO, but the other 2 i played extensively). Both TR and TCoS were unique quality-games that got knocked out in round 1, just like many of the actual WoW-clones did. There have been a good bunch of games around since WoW, both clones and not-so-much-clones, and none of them came close to even meeting a guy who once pet a cat whose owner once saw a picture of a guy who heard a story about the throne.

The major force in play here is indeed time, and TR and TCoS where, as you say, before their time, while others were to late. You cannot dethrone WoW. It's time simply has to run out. Making 1000 wow-clones won't change that fact. Making 1000 non-WoW-clones wont change that fact. WoW had perfect timing, and that's the most important factor to it's success. Only recently is WoW truly getting old, running out of time. It will still be around for years to come, but it's starting to get sour and smell.

I think we are quite close to a shift in this little universe of ours. Tension has been building up for some time now and the bubble is about to burst. Exactly what will happen is impossible to predict. But it will happen... soon.

I certainly dont want to see any major AAA games fail mostly due to the loss of employment involved however i have become quite good at successfully predicting failure based on certain red flags surrounding both the publisher and dev alike..

MMO failure in the end cant be blamed on the gamer or the critics but can almost always be attributed to poor and or clone design principles along with better (or at least percieved as better) games that have or are releasing soon..

Times are changing and the stubborn mindset of the $15 a month dinosaur clone will only lead to extinction and perhaps if these greed first driven companies cant deliver a fully loaded worthwhile product then we will watch natural selection take its course and new gamer friendly empires arise..

Originally posted by volvoxaureus
DS9 is not boring !!

Nope. I actually think it was the best ST series ever...

Originally posted by DarLorkar

Like everything else.. money talks in the end. Dev's get caught up in the end and have to decide how they will choose. Stay true to the dream or cash out.

"Stay true to the dream" sure sounds easy, if you don't have kids to feed.

All creative types get to deal with this decision, at some point.  Pretty principles or a paycheck.

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Lethality

For me, wanting a game to fail is attached to simlply disagreeing with design decisions or execution, and not wanting success to be a roadmap for future games (which it would stand to reason I would also not like!)

 

I too feel the same. Fail is a strong word though, maybe too strong.

 

I wont mince words, I feel the GW2 model is the gaming anti-christ, atleast one of the signs. I hate the business model far more than the gameplay itself. 

 

I shudder at a future when buying gold in my mmorpg is the norm instead of the outlier. When an mmorpg is collection of games in a box without a cohesive one world design. When hype sells 2.4 million boxes at launch and solid innovative play sells less than 500k at launch. When "give me now" trumps earning an reward. When all of this is a raging sucess. 

 

 

 

 

 

Your hate for GW2 obviously stems from resentment. Because you believe TSW should have gotten the popularity GW2 has.

Psychopathy (/sa??k?p??i/^[1][2] from the Ancient Greek ???? "psyche", -soul, mind and ?????, "pathos" -suffering, disease, condition^[3][4]) is a personality disorder that has been variously described as characterized by shallow emotions (in particular reduced fear), stress tolerance, lacking empathy, coldheartedness, lacking guilt, egocentricity, superficial charm, manipulativeness, irresponsibility, nonplanfulness, impulsivity, and antisocial behaviors such as parasitic lifestyle and criminality.

Simply put: People love to see suffering and pain as a form of amusement. If somebody is not failing, we are not succeeding.