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Xsyon: Prelude

Xsyon 

General Discussion  » Xsyon and Minecraft

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  eyesadi

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 41

 
OP  8/22/12 5:05:34 AM#21

I must add......

 

Even the "big guys" can't seem to get it right these days.......

 

Two hundred million plus on SWTOR and the game is REALLY poor.......

 

So, I don't think it's necessarily the size of the company.....more like the size of the VISION, coupled with the ABILITY to get the product to fruition.  Both are needed.

 

The concepts I read two years ago THRILLED me!  I was in LOVE with this game.  It was to be EQ1 all over again for me....my last MMO......EVER!

 

But were two years down the road and nowhere near EVEN close to ready?

 

and now GW2 is upon us as a FTP model.......I fear Xyson is in a difficult position.......

  User Deleted
8/22/12 5:13:57 AM#22
Originally posted by eyesadi

Two thoughts......

First to BUY a game these days AND charge a sub fee......when it's not ready......what are they thinking?  Our player base is SUCH a fickle lot........We will try a game ONCE and if we don't like it......we NEVER return.  Will devs EVER learn?  There are WAY to many options these days.......FTP's spawning, it seems, daily!  Folks today simply do NOT have the patience, or the TIME, to support a "Work in Progress".

Second.....I REALLY get upset when folks criticize a monthly sub fee.  I mean come on......Where can we go for $15.00 and get a months entertainment?  A 12 pack of Pepsi these days is $6.00 for gods sake!  Take the wify to a movie.....$25.00 easy and ya get 2 hours.  It's NOT the sub fee.....its the very simple fact that, apparently, the game is not close to ready.......and todays market will NOT accept that.

It really is that simple.  I worked in a service industry all my life.  Most of my career I lived by the rule.....UNDER promise and OVER deliver.  Thats what will obtain and retain a player base.  Once you treat a customer poorly.....you have to wok 10 times harder to get them back......

 

I disadree about the base charge and monthly fee, but agree 100% about everything else you said. I agree that double charging will not reach the broad mass of MMO players, but I don't think the broad base of players are going to want a full loot PVP game anyway. I personally hate free to play, and run in the opposite direction when I see it. I have a real problem with the whole "entitled" generation growing up where everything should be free. Fact is, nothing is free. If you don't pay for it, someone else is - and they want something from you. But then I just prebought Embers of Caerus, which will maybe come out in four years, and have a subscription fee, so I'm not typical in that way. I love a work in progress.

I feel that your last point hits the nail on the head really. I feel that the devs were naive and optimistic in the beginning, they failed to do what you pointed out: to under promise and over deliver. It was a case of "we're going to make the best game ever" and nowadays business is always about that - selling your customer that idea. Then it turned out to be a lot harder than they thought. But that was before my time, and I'm not going to judge them for that. In my opinion, the fact that they did things differently brought with it some good things, and some bad things. Maybe there wouldn't have been one without the other. What I paid for is what I got - I knew the state of the game and it is still more appealing to me than the other ones out there (I do still have high hopes for EoC). I get that people are pissed off because they expected something different and brilliant, and then they got something that was just different. For me though, that different is more important because it is just the thing I haven't found in other games and that I was specifically looking for. I'm willing to wait for the rest, at least as long as I have fun in the process.

  eyesadi

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 41

 
OP  8/22/12 8:58:08 AM#23

I as well have my eye on EoC.......Matter of fact.....I find myself with the same level of excitement about it as I did with Xyson.  

Once bitten twice shy tho.......If we have learned ANYTHING about this crazy hobby of ours it should be NEVER listen to the hype.  NEVER EVER.  Far more games than not have come out in poor condition with no resemblance to their hype.

And, you make an excellent point......Fun is a very different concept to each of us.  

Bottom line.....if YOUR having fun in a game.........Go for it!

I as well get so aggrevated at some folks on these forums that seem to do nothing but bitch.  

Our dollars speak much more loudly than our words.......Again......look at SWTOR......

Released as the BEST game in HISTORY.......King WoW was FINALLY to be defrocked!  A few VERY short months later it's going FTP!  And they have even screwed THAT up!  

What is it about Devs?  Their brains seem to be misplaced with another part of their anatomy.  Above ALL else, they should have their fingers on the pulse of whats going on TOMORROW........not in 1990.

  nutsodds

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/10
Posts: 90

8/22/12 11:52:05 AM#24
Hi, Mirokata and Illmaculate are the same person or from the same guild, I used to see them both posting shit in Xsyon forum from the beguinning. They are a trolls actually. Also he was suspicious to hack the site also lol For your information Mirokata was banned in Xsyon forums and after two days the site suffered a hack attack, Was you Judaries :) lol
  MrDDT

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/04/04
Posts: 281

8/22/12 1:44:40 PM#25
Originally posted by eyesadi

Very nice post MrDDT......

 

And ya know, i felt the same way bout M/C UNTIL I started exploring the multiplayer servers......It's a whole different game with the mods they have........

If anyone ever wants a REAL strong building/crafting game.....give it a go.  we always talk bout SWG, Rysom, EQ2 and LoTRO for crafters.  Ima thinking MC should be thrown into that conversation........crafting.....farming.....breeding......the game gets VERY deep very quickly on a multiplayer server.  Heck they even throw in classes!

Biggest reason I dont play MC is grahpics, and its not an MMO.

 

If they were to fix those 2 issues I likely would play. Yes I have played with Hi Res modes and all these graphic modes but its still looks like lego land. Great concept and good coding but Ive yet to see a mod that fixed that issue of blocks of stuff.

Trust me my 8 year old son loves the game. I think its great for an 3 to 14 year old. I'm 37. I need a little more into my games than building blocks. Politics, conquest, action, advanced economy etc. Minecraft has none of those.

Servers are limited to how many they can hold. Its not an MMO.

-MrDDT

  MrDDT

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/04/04
Posts: 281

8/22/12 1:51:07 PM#26
Originally posted by nutsodds
Hi, Mirokata and Illmaculate are the same person or from the same guild, I used to see them both posting shit in Xsyon forum from the beguinning. They are a trolls actually. Also he was suspicious to hack the site also lol For your information Mirokata was banned in Xsyon forums and after two days the site suffered a hack attack, Was you Judaries :) lol

Try not attacking the person and try attacking their statements.

You are just making libel comments here and its pretty sad, no proof to back it up and just bull crap.

 

Mirokata has made some solid points that if you dont agree with that's fine but post why dont try to libel their name because you think you heard something from someone that might have heard it from someone.

 

Xsyon has major issues with its gameplay, mostly IMO lacking in direction and reasons behind things. The grind is horrid also and lack of thought into what an economy should be.

Give you an example. I have 100 in crafting skill and I throw away the best armor in the game by the basket full. Why? Because it has no value, no one will pay me for it and they are very very very easy to craft.

There is a major reason why only 20 or so people are playing this game right now. Its due to many of the issues listed by Mirokata. Illmaculate as much as I dont like him, has a valid opinion of not having fun in the game.

-MrDDT

  eyesadi

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 41

 
OP  8/22/12 1:51:29 PM#27

Totally agree.....It's NOT an mmo, AND, the graphics are TERRIBLE!

That said.......the gameplay is better than MANY, MANY mmo's.......

There is something to be said for gameplay.........quite a bit actually.....

And, i LOVE my graphics......remember.....i was dragged into the game.....But finding it's sinking it's roots into my very soul....

 

  Mirokata

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/14/05
Posts: 114

8/22/12 2:15:42 PM#28

eyesadi:

"What is it about devs?" Ego. People these days, like Penintime, get all worked-up if you don't phrase your critiques in a groveling manner and write out their design documents for them. Pointing problems out should be enough to prompt action, but if you just point out problems their ego says "Oh he's just hating/trolling", and they ignore it.

Penintime:

You've honestly made the same post every single time in this thread "Mirokata is rude and lying. I think this game is worth it because it's fun and because it's growing. [Strawman about small vs giant companies]." Please, please, write something more substantial.. if you can.

On the "scam" topic you're so obsessed with: No, you clearly didn't read my "scam" thread, because you just went on a tangent about completely unrelated things. It is a shitty product, it does cost too much, but that's NOT what that thread was about. The thread was about the edits to the original feature page and the remaining *knowingly* false claims. Keep in mind, that feature page was literally what people were pre-ordering, since there was no other documentation/pictures/videos/beta to speak of. He said, "Come pre-order THIS game, it's 80% done and we're releasing in 2 weeks!", then released a year later, editted out the most ambitious features, and still kept *knowingly* false information in there. You can speculate and decide for youself if that was a "scam", or just extremely irresponsible, disrespectful and stupid business practice.

I think it's clear that, for you, the majority of the fun you get from these games is feeling like you're part of something special ("For me though, that different is more important because it is just the thing I haven't found in other games and that I was specifically looking for"), and that you had a hand in growing it ("I just prebought Embers of Caerus, which will maybe come out in four years"). These are qualities of a "fan", not of a "player". You still haven't told us why you enjoy "playing" Xsyon, just why you enjoy being a "fan" of it.

nutsodds:

What glorious payback that was.

  Ichmen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/15/06
Posts: 1234

hatred enriches.life is a prison, death a release.

8/22/12 2:16:30 PM#29

as i have not played xsyon i cant comment on it and wont. 

but MC can be very mmoish.  there are tons of server mods and player mods to give it an RPG feel from leveling up logging trees and swimming to getting more ore drops every time you mine and level up mining. or faster rates of collection on things.

as for graphics yes the default sucks. but given that mc is fully community modded you can add in a 256x HD realistic texture pack to make everything much more crisp.. while it wont ever be crys grade graphics i personally enjoy my cartoon x32/64 textures i use on it. 

 

if you take the time to check out mods or player run servers for minecraft and the mods they use you can be quite suprised by some of the neat things people develop for the game, as well as the fun interesting builds and items they make. 

 

but if you are dead set on a sandboxy mmo like xsyon i cant really help you there, most of the so called sandbox mmos i have checked out and read up on really have been pretty bloody flat in all mannor of gaming. either the graphics are so dated its harking back to 1980s or the game play is soo shallow pong has more action...

all i can say is good luck,  im quite content with MC for single playing and server gaming (though now 1.3.x has lan support you can semi MMO with friends on it via a single player world if you wanted)

CPU: Intel Core i7 CPU 860 2.8GHz
Evga GeForce 670 FTW
Evga P55 SLI

<

  illmaculate

Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/10
Posts: 13

8/22/12 6:37:00 PM#30
Originally posted by nutsodds
Hi, Mirokata and Illmaculate are the same person or from the same guild, I used to see them both posting shit in Xsyon forum from the beguinning. They are a trolls actually. Also he was suspicious to hack the site also lol For your information Mirokata was banned in Xsyon forums and after two days the site suffered a hack attack, Was you Judaries :) lol

Nutsodds and Penintime are the same person or from the same guild, I used to see them post nonsense on mmorpg from the beguinning. They are a trolls actually. Also they was suspicious of working for Notorious Games also lol For your information nutsodds is one of the GMs and speculated players actually cared enough to perpetrate a hack attack (lol), Was you nutsodds :)

  Mirokata

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/14/05
Posts: 114

8/22/12 9:40:32 PM#31
lol A++ would read again. Truly based reversal

Almost every other day a new post from a fresh new account shows up on the Xsyon boards ultimately asking "I've been following along since the beginning and now that _____, I want to know..Is it time to try Xsyon?", even one here on MMORPG!

Clearly some pretty intense viral campaigning right there.
This is clearly the work of viral campaigning, which IMO
  User Deleted
8/23/12 12:24:01 PM#32
Originally posted by Mirokata

eyesadi:

"What is it about devs?" Ego. People these days, like Penintime, get all worked-up if you don't phrase your critiques in a groveling manner and write out their design documents for them. Pointing problems out should be enough to prompt action, but if you just point out problems their ego says "Oh he's just hating/trolling", and they ignore it.

Yeah, I think people should try to be reasonable and respectful, even online. If you see that as "grovelling" then that says more about you than it does about me. Like I have said repeatedly, I agree that Xsyon has issues, and I am impatient for them to be fixed. But all games have issues and I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Penintime:

You've honestly made the same post every single time in this thread "Mirokata is rude and lying. I think this game is worth it because it's fun and because it's growing. [Strawman about small vs giant companies]." Please, please, write something more substantial.. if you can.

Just like you have made the same post 40 times in this forum, and countless times on every other site where Xsyon is mentioned. And for a game to be fun, well yeah that goes a pretty long way towards making it worth it. 

On the "scam" topic you're so obsessed with: No, you clearly didn't read my "scam" thread, because you just went on a tangent about completely unrelated things. It is a shitty product, it does cost too much, but that's NOT what that thread was about. The thread was about the edits to the original feature page and the remaining *knowingly* false claims. Keep in mind, that feature page was literally what people were pre-ordering, since there was no other documentation/pictures/videos/beta to speak of. He said, "Come pre-order THIS game, it's 80% done and we're releasing in 2 weeks!", then released a year later, editted out the most ambitious features, and still kept *knowingly* false information in there. You can speculate and decide for youself if that was a "scam", or just extremely irresponsible, disrespectful and stupid business practice.

Again, it is not a scam. I did read the thread and it it just bitterness and vitriol. They couldn't deliver some of the things they promised, that sucks. They refunded a bunch of people and kept working on the game to implement the features they had planned. Not a scam.

I think it's clear that, for you, the majority of the fun you get from these games is feeling like you're part of something special ("For me though, that different is more important because it is just the thing I haven't found in other games and that I was specifically looking for"), and that you had a hand in growing it ("I just prebought Embers of Caerus, which will maybe come out in four years"). These are qualities of a "fan", not of a "player". You still haven't told us why you enjoy "playing" Xsyon, just why you enjoy being a "fan" of it.

I think it is clear that, for you, the reason you keep posting incessantly about Xsyon is that you have a personal beef with the people behind Xsyon and you take pleasure in finding fault with it. It makes you feel big and bad and special saying mean stuff and trying to ruin others fun. You are a conspiracy theorist and anyone who disagrees with you must be in league with the bad guys. Ok, you don't like the game, it is not for everyone... that doesn't mean that anyone who likes it is a) an idiot or b) working for Notorious Games. It is pretty obvious that you like to think that you have a hand in bringing down Xsyon.

The reason I like that Xsyon is different isn't that it makes me feel special, it is simply that it has some features I want in a game and that it lacks certain other features that I detest. An example of what I like is a big world where I can make my mark, where I can go off exploring and gather resources, build many different buildings and admire others, craft many different items. I like the aesthetics, the graphics, compared to Minecraft, a tale in the sand, wurm.  Some of the things I am glad are not in Xsyon (that are in basically every other game out there): elves, classes, anime-style, revealing female armor, numbers and symbols flashing across your screen at the speed of light in combat, crappy storyline quests, etc.

I get that you are snowblind and all but if you read my post you will see that I brought up prebuying Embers of Caerus to make a point about another subject; the issue of people's willingness to pay for games and sub fees.

You don't get to decide who is a real "player", they come in all forms. Do you really think I care that you consider it uncool to like stuff? The fact that you can't respect or even take someone's word for it that they simply enjoy the game, that is pretty telling. 

 

  MrDDT

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/04/04
Posts: 281

8/23/12 2:18:48 PM#33
Originally posted by Penintime
I think it is clear that, for you, the reason you keep posting incessantly about Xsyon is that you have a personal beef with the people behind Xsyon and you take pleasure in finding fault with it. It makes you feel big and bad and special saying mean stuff and trying to ruin others fun. You are a conspiracy theorist and anyone who disagrees with you must be in league with the bad guys. Ok, you don't like the game, it is not for everyone... that doesn't mean that anyone who likes it is a) an idiot or b) working for Notorious Games. It is pretty obvious that you like to think that you have a hand in bringing down Xsyon.

The reason I like that Xsyon is different isn't that it makes me feel special, it is simply that it has some features I want in a game and that it lacks certain other features that I detest. An example of what I like is a big world where I can make my mark, where I can go off exploring and gather resources, build many different buildings and admire others, craft many different items. I like the aesthetics, the graphics, compared to Minecraft, a tale in the sand, wurm.  Some of the things I am glad are not in Xsyon (that are in basically every other game out there): elves, classes, anime-style, revealing female armor, numbers and symbols flashing across your screen at the speed of light in combat, crappy storyline quests, etc.

I get that you are snowblind and all but if you read my post you will see that I brought up prebuying Embers of Caerus to make a point about another subject; the issue of people's willingness to pay for games and sub fees.

You don't get to decide who is a real "player", they come in all forms. Do you really think I care that you consider it uncool to like stuff? The fact that you can't respect or even take someone's word for it that they simply enjoy the game, that is pretty telling. 

 

 

My biggest problem is the listed features when most people bought and quit the game were changed. Now we are left with very little players playing Xsyon (there is no dispute about this).

I'm sure there are many reasons for that, but I would say the biggest reason is due to the last of upholding the listed features. Xsyon has swayed away from the first features list, and it shows how many people are not following the game now because of it.

Game is lacking in content of what to do with the current features. There is no reason behind all the grind. With the recent nerf to crafting, even vets like me are asking outselves "Why?" why are we grinding out skills if there is no reason to do it?

The "Real players" are the ones that first bought the game off the listed features they were told would be in game. Now the ones left after what was really put into the game whine for something and the direction has completely changed.

Xsyon needs to forget about the 20 to 30 people currently playing the game and get back on path with the main focus of the game.

-MrDDT

  Drevar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/25/04
Posts: 137

8/23/12 7:35:59 PM#34

Problem is...what do you think is the main focus of the game?  I don't think he has deviated from his goal (except for carts), it has just taken 10x longer than we would like.

The issue with the initial release, besides the crappy performance and buggy client, was that open world PvP and full loot were part of the feature list.  Jordi wrongly thought he could have those as mere points on a list without them being the primary focus of the entire game.  MO and DFO players saw those two bullet points and poured in thinking it was going to be a gank fest when it was actually a "rebuild society" type crafting game.

“If MMORPG players were around when God said, "Let their be light" they'd have called the light gay, and plunged the universe back into darkness by squatting their nutsacks over it.”
-Luke McKinney, The 7 Biggest Dick Moves in the History of Online Gaming

"In the end, SWG may have been more potential and promise than fulfilled expectation. But I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
-Raph Koster

  User Deleted
8/24/12 12:59:17 AM#35

My biggest problem is the listed features when most people bought and quit the game were changed. Now we are left with very little players playing Xsyon (there is no dispute about this).

I'm sure there are many reasons for that, but I would say the biggest reason is due to the last of upholding the listed features. Xsyon has swayed away from the first features list, and it shows how many people are not following the game now because of it.

Game is lacking in content of what to do with the current features. There is no reason behind all the grind. With the recent nerf to crafting, even vets like me are asking outselves "Why?" why are we grinding out skills if there is no reason to do it?

The "Real players" are the ones that first bought the game off the listed features they were told would be in game. Now the ones left after what was really put into the game whine for something and the direction has completely changed.

Xsyon needs to forget about the 20 to 30 people currently playing the game and get back on path with the main focus of the game.

Yep, true. Lack of players makes a big difference, the world feels empty sometimes. I feel a bit differently about the lack of #"purpose" though, I think it is less about purpose (I take that to mean a reason for doing it that is storyline based, "why" would I build etc) and more about demand. Building and crafting is fun i Xsyon IMHO. But like DDT has pointed out there is a problem with the economy in Xsyon. This is my biggest issue with the game right now, and I think fixing that would solve the issue that people who have been playing for a longer time than me have when they have built and made things and it is no longer new and exciting. If there were more players, and if the economy worked, people would be hounding these old vets to buy their supreme stuff and that would be a purpose to make them.

Another purpose is that as far as I understand Xsyon is in Prelude, when people are building the world to prepare for a battle between good and evil and the end of the world (again). Supposedly these things we are making will be useful and needed in the future.

  Mirokata

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/14/05
Posts: 114

8/24/12 3:26:12 AM#36

Originally posted by Drevar

MO and DFO players saw those two bullet points and poured in thinking it was going to be a gank fest when it was actually a "rebuild society" type crafting game.

But Xsyon PvP is a gankfest... the only reason the world isn't filled with people attacking you as soon as you leave your safezone is because no one plays the game.

The migrating MO and DFO players weren't actually interested in a "gankfest", or they would still be freely slaying and looting all over the world of Xsyon. They were interested in a proposed sandbox game with skillful PvP gameplay and territory control that allowed for resource-based power struggles and immersive in-game politics and economy. Turns out resources are bountiful, territories are permanent and invincible, and PvP gameplay is horrible.

Originally posted by Penintime

Yep, true. Lack of players makes a big difference, the world feels empty sometimes. I feel a bit differently about the lack of #"purpose" though, I think it is less about purpose (I take that to mean a reason for doing it that is storyline based, "why" would I build etc) and more about demand.

You think we've been asking for backstory for our characters? lol...

Building and crafting is fun i Xsyon IMHO. But like DDT has pointed out there is a problem with the economy in Xsyon. This is my biggest issue with the game right now, and I think fixing that would solve the issue that people who have been playing for a longer time than me have when they have built and made things and it is no longer new and exciting. If there were more players, and if the economy worked, people would be hounding these old vets to buy their supreme stuff and that would be a purpose to make them.

Care to expand on why you find building and crafting in Xsyon fun? Because it is "new and exciting"?

You've condensed a lot into that little phrase "if the economy worked". There is probably enough work in that task to keep NG busy for another decade or two. I love the singular "there is *a* problem with the economy".

Even if vets had unlimited demand of their product, they would still need a reason to want to make that profit. So you converted 40 hours of Xsyon playing into a billion nails after selling every new player a new supreme set... what are you going to do with that?

What about when those new players become vets... now there needs to be that many new players for each new vet to create enough demand for that new set of vets to create things??

Also, if there is an ever growing number of people capable of getting and combining resources into supreme sets, making them cheaper and more prevelant, who is buying the sub-supreme sets/materials? No one. If you're a non-maxed crafter, basicaly all you do in the game is grind until you become another drop in the pond of the end-game industry.

Finally, just think about how easy items are to bring into the world (press scavenge, press gather, etc). Now think about how hard it is to actually lose items from the world (slow decay). In fact, some items are completely invulnerable, like buildings; they're never lost. Obviously over time theres going to be so many items in the world that people will probably WANT to stop bringing them in -- then what?

So maybe you think "oh, just balance decay with gathering"! But keep in mind, EVERYTHING you do in Xsyon is either gathering or crafting. It doesn't take a genius to see that this problem can't be solved, since gatherers would be losing more value in decay than they can generate through their profession.

Xsyon is simply too one-dimensional to have a functioning economy.

Another purpose is that as far as I understand Xsyon is in Prelude, when people are building the world to prepare for a battle between good and evil and the end of the world (again). Supposedly these things we are making will be useful and needed in the future.

Yeah... roleplaying stocking up for a war isn't a valid purpose.

 

  User Deleted
8/24/12 7:03:40 AM#37
Originally posted by Mirokata

You think we've been asking for backstory for our characters? lol...

You know, being condescending doesn't magically make you have a valid point.

You've condensed a lot into that little phrase "if the economy worked". There is probably enough work in that task to keep NG busy for another decade or two. I love the singular "there is *a* problem with the economy".

There are very few games that have a functioning economy. Do you realize how complex in-game economics are? That Xsyon doesn't have one hardly singles it out amongst the mmos out there. They are working on the game, it is getting better all the time.

Even if vets had unlimited demand of their product, they would still need a reason to want to make that profit. So you converted 40 hours of Xsyon playing into a billion nails after selling every new player a new supreme set... what are you going to do with that?

These types of in absurdum arguments are pointless. Same problem as in any other game. In the end, it is just a game, there are no real reasons to do anyting, other than that you get enjoyment from it. If you don't, don't do it. IRL why is not everyone driving around in a Ferarri? If everyone did, why would people make them? Do billionaires just lay down and die? You don't have a point here, because this wouldn't happen.

What about when those new players become vets... now there needs to be that many new players for each new vet to create enough demand for that new set of vets to create things??

You mean like a pyramid scheme, well how is that different from any other game? There are standard functions to minimize that and there is not reason they wouldn't worj in Xsyon, just as well (not very well judging by other games).

Also, if there is an ever growing number of people capable of getting and combining resources into supreme sets, making them cheaper and more prevelant, who is buying the sub-supreme sets/materials? No one. If you're a non-maxed crafter, basicaly all you do in the game is grind until you become another drop in the pond of the end-game industry.

Again, this is a problem in many games, so you should be complaining about games in general, not Xsyon in particular. You are looking into a hypothetical future here where Prelude never ends and decay is not implemented. Today that is not relevant to Xsyon, most people do not have supreme armor and therefore a medium quality item is desired by many people who are just starting out, or who are focusing on other aspects of the game.

Finally, just think about how easy items are to bring into the world (press scavenge, press gather, etc). Now think about how hard it is to actually lose items from the world (slow decay). In fact, some items are completely invulnerable, like buildings; they're never lost. Obviously over time theres going to be so many items in the world that people will probably WANT to stop bringing them in -- then what?

So maybe you think "oh, just balance decay with gathering"! But keep in mind, EVERYTHING you do in Xsyon is either gathering or crafting. It doesn't take a genius to see that this problem can't be solved, since gatherers would be losing more value in decay than they can generate through their profession.

Yeah, umm decay would fix that, clearly the opposite can't be argued as I can't prove it and you cannot prove it either, we'll just have to wait and see - well, those of us who haven't made out minds up that is. Basically you are saying, Xsyon has a crappy economy and it can't be fixed, but EVEN IF THEY DID it would still be crappy blabla. Talk about covering all bases... Again, you don't want Xsyon to improve. Of course the Xsyon economy can be fixed, I hope it will be. No doubt you will still hold that it is unfixable long after that happens.

Xsyon is simply too one-dimensional to have a functioning economy.

blabla this thread is starting to meka me feel like I'm standing in a barrel of sand trying to dig for water.

Yeah... roleplaying stocking up for a war isn't a valid purpose.

Not for you apparently. For people who are having fun in the process, it is a different story. I roleplay that I am a survivor of the apocalypse, I suddenly have to learn how to do things I never thought I'd have to do, such as kill racoons that are bigger than me and lizard like rodents who try to eat me. Along with my fellow survivors we strive to protect ourselves aainst the wildlife ( upcoming creature migration), and for the uncertain future.

I'm kind of tired trying to argue against you because you keep moving the goal post. Why do I think crafting in Xsyon is fun? Oh, why do I get the feeling this is a trick question? LOL.

  MrDDT

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/04/04
Posts: 281

9/04/12 2:11:39 PM#38

Penintime, I think you are missing the main point he is trying to make. He doesnt care if YOU find it fun, the point is most people do not find it fun, there is no doubt about this.

Next is the economy issue, you believe its not working, he believes its not working. You play it off like its some simple fix that they are working on yet everything points to it getting worse. Then you state how hard it is to have a working economy. I would have to say Xsyon has the worst economy I've ever seen in a Sandbox game, and maybe even in any game ever. Being that bad is saying just how far off they are on this economy issue. Which even yourself says would likely be the biggest point to bring people to play the game again.

 

Last, Im sooo tired of hearing "A lot of people" there is nothing to be done in saying "A lot of people" and Xsyon in the same terms save for "A lot of people" are not playing Xsyon. There is no a lot coming back, there is no a lot playing and there is no a lot quitting. Xsyon has such a small base of people following it, followed it, and playing it, there is no use for the phrase "a lot". 1000s of people quit Xsyon, I doubt if 1000s will ever play Xsyon again even if it turned out to be the best sandbox ever. I truly believe that Xsyon messed up so bad on release for so many reasons, and then after release with its horribly slow updates and lack of proper prioritization.

-MrDDT

  Mirokata

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/14/05
Posts: 114

9/04/12 3:28:53 PM#39

Originally posted by Penintime

The reason I like that Xsyon is different isn't that it makes me feel special, it is simply that it has some features I want in a game and that it lacks certain other features that I detest. An example of what I like is a big world where I can make my mark, where I can go off exploring and gather resources, build many different buildings and admire others, craft many different items. I like the aesthetics, the graphics, compared to Minecraft, a tale in the sand, wurm.  Some of the things I am glad are not in Xsyon (that are in basically every other game out there): elves, classes, anime-style, revealing female armor, numbers and symbols flashing across your screen at the speed of light in combat, crappy storyline quests, etc.

Actually, I just wanted to know what she finds fun about Xsyon, since the fact that she hasn't been able to actually answer that question yet makes me wonder. Penintime, you told us that you like Xsyon because it has some features and lacks other.. except virtually no sandboxes have any of those negative features you listed, and most sandboxs also have the features you like, like a big world where you can make your mark, explore, gather, build, admire, craft, etc.... AKA the features that define the sandbox genre. The thing that wins you over to Xsyon is apparently the aesthetics and graphics.

The way you phrase it makes it sound like you haven't even actually played Xsyon. You just listed high-level features as the reason you enjoy playing a game; that's ridiculous. Treat this like you're selling Xsyon gameplay to someone who has played every other sandbox game out there -- what do you say?

I don't know why you think this is a trick question, cause it should be really, really simple... that is, if you actually have fun playing Xsyon.

Ex. I had fun crafting in ATITD because the process of making items always involved some interesting and involving mechanic implemented through a phsyical object in the game world, which really added to the immersion. They ranged from simple (baking bricks in the sun) to complex (operating a furnace, using tools to shape metal on an anvil). Failure was possible, but never felt unfair since you were always responsible for the failure, not some random number generator.

 

 

 

  User Deleted
9/04/12 6:26:35 PM#40
Originally posted by MrDDT

Penintime, I think you are missing the main point he is trying to make. He doesnt care if YOU find it fun, the point is most people do not find it fun, there is no doubt about this.

Next is the economy issue, you believe its not working, he believes its not working. You play it off like its some simple fix that they are working on yet everything points to it getting worse. Then you state how hard it is to have a working economy. I would have to say Xsyon has the worst economy I've ever seen in a Sandbox game, and maybe even in any game ever. Being that bad is saying just how far off they are on this economy issue. Which even yourself says would likely be the biggest point to bring people to play the game again.

 

Last, Im sooo tired of hearing "A lot of people" there is nothing to be done in saying "A lot of people" and Xsyon in the same terms save for "A lot of people" are not playing Xsyon. There is no a lot coming back, there is no a lot playing and there is no a lot quitting. Xsyon has such a small base of people following it, followed it, and playing it, there is no use for the phrase "a lot". 1000s of people quit Xsyon, I doubt if 1000s will ever play Xsyon again even if it turned out to be the best sandbox ever. I truly believe that Xsyon messed up so bad on release for so many reasons, and then after release with its horribly slow updates and lack of proper prioritization.

I understood his question, and it seems I was right, as him not actually believing that I could really find it fun. So that is what I answered. I kinda think that is a crappy starting point for any constructive discussion. 

As to your criticisms, I pretty much agree with you, though I may not know how to phrase it well and I sure as heck don't know how to fix it. But having said that, even in spite of those faults, I still enjoy the game and I think that is worth pointing out.

"A lot of people", I am referring to the people in my tribe and some others I know. I don't mean hundreds, just trying to make the point that it isn't a case of  just me being crazy and spending hours in Xsyon all alone sitting in a hole where I am stuck and not getting help from a guide to get out and grinding awls and chisels for several hours on end saying to myself "oh what fun!". 

I hope more people will come and I hope the game fixes some things before that happens. We'll see what happens with all this advertising and kickstarter etc on the horizon.

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